| September 8th, 2005 01:27 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Riffhard wrote
Fact #1-The president of the United States called governor Blanco a full 28 hours prior to Katrina making landfall and "strongly recommended" that she(Blanco) order a mandatory evacuation. She hemmed and hawwed for over 24 hours. Then Katrina hit. Too fucking late now governor!
Umm this document from governor Blanco, dated Aug 28th, clearly shows that she was asking for assistance before Katrina hit.
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf
The passages below taken from a press release onthe White House's web site clearly show that FEMA was authorized on Aug 27th to provide resources at it's discretion. It does not say that that it needs forms submitted in triplicate before resources can be allocated. The full letter is taken from here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html
"Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.
Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area."
Let's not forget Michael Brown's last job was as the head of the International Arabian Horse Association. . .a job he was later asked to leave. FEMA has been significantly weakened since being brought under the wing of Dept Homeland Security. It's funding has been cut and Michael Brown had absolutely no experience in disaster relief.
quote:
Louisianna has been a democrat state for over sixty years now!
Check your facts here. . . Louisiana has been a Red State that voted for Bush in past 2 presidential elections.
The belief that the federal government needs permission to usurp states rights is ridiculous! They do it all the time! Voters in several states passed referendums to allow medical marijuana and the DEA regularly raids pot clubs all the time.
The federal government had no problem trying to interfere in the Terri Shiavo case even though this case had been decided many times in the state system.
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| September 8th, 2005 01:35 PM |
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| Jumping Jack |
Since the Governor won't evacuate New Orleans do you favor the President going in and doing the dirty work since Blanco doesn't have the courage to do so. After all, you are saying the Feds should protect the people without regard to what the state wants. |
| September 8th, 2005 01:59 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Jumping Jack wrote:
Since the Governor won't evacuate New Orleans do you favor the President going in and doing the dirty work since Blanco doesn't have the courage to do so.
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought there was a mandatory evacuation going on. I've seen pictures of what look like National Guard troops going house to house to clear out the neighborhoods. In all honesty, I have no idea whose authority these troops are acting on.
quote:
After all, you are saying the Feds should protect the people without regard to what the state wants.
I'm saying that the Fed gov't does it when it suits it's purpose. I think the Fed gov't has duty to help all it's citizens when a natural disaster strikes. Show me some documentation saying that the State of Louisana doesn't want the Feds to protect LA's citizens.
Personally I think anyone who stays behind and refuses to evacuate should sign a waiver that releases Fed, State and Local govt's from any responibility for any misfortune that happens after the evacuation. You know there are going to be people that stay behind and say "I didn't know the water was toxic" or "Why didn't they tell me that I could get sick from the water" These people are on their own as far as I'm concerned.
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| September 8th, 2005 07:22 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
monkey_man wrote:
"Umm this document from governor Blanco, dated Aug 28th, clearly shows that she was asking for assistance before Katrina hit."
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf
Ofcourse she was Monkey Man. That's not my point at all. My point is that she was strongly urged to order a mandatory evacuation well before the levees broke. Bush had both her and Mayor Nagin onboard Air Force1. She refused to discuss the issue while Nagin was present!!! Bush and the governor retreated to his office abord the plane. It was then that Bush "strongly reccomend" that she,with Nagin's assitance,order the evacuation. She said,and I quote,"Well,it was all very confusing,and I felt that I needed time to think it over." Great fucking leadership right there!!! Meanwhile Blanco,and Nagin,are each trying to blame eachother while at the same time laying all the blame at Bsh's feet. Pathetic!!
quote:
monkey_man wrote:
Check your facts here. . . Louisiana has been a Red State that voted for Bush in past 2 presidential elections.
The belief that the federal government needs permission to usurp states rights is ridiculous! They do it all the time! Voters in several states passed referendums to allow medical marijuana and the DEA regularly raids pot clubs all the time.
The federal government had no problem trying to interfere in the Terri Shiavo case even though this case had been decided many times in the state system.
Well,firstly I suppose I should have made my case a little clearer with regards to the Blue State pronouncment. In fact La. should be considered a Purple State. However,it is a state run by democrats,and has been for over sixty years. Blanco is a democrat. Nagin is a democrat. Louisianna is the home of Huey Long for fuck's sake! It has long been held(and corrupted I might add)by the democrat party,very much like my state of New Jersey in that regard. So,yes the northern half of the state voted Rebuplican for the last two presidential election cycles,but the state has been run by democrats for generations now.
It is not the federal goverments job to babysit these clowns in La. They droped the ball big time. FEMA will pay a price for their own failures here,but I am still waiting to hear Hillary,Pelosi,Kennedy,Lehey,or any other of these partisan fucks to lay any of the blame where it rightfully belongs. They have been useing every oppurtunity to tear this president down since 2000. The fact that they would use the worst natural catastrophy in the country's history is about as crass,and obscene as it gets. Considering that they refuse to admit their own party's blatant failures.
Riffhard
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| September 8th, 2005 09:26 PM |
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| glencar |
It's much more politically advantageous for them to attack Michael Brown whilst not mentioning Nagin & Blanco. Fire all three, I say! |
| September 8th, 2005 09:37 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
glencar wrote:
It's much more politically advantageous for them to attack Michael Brown whilst not mentioning Nagin & Blanco. Fire all three, I say!
Oh absolutly Blue. I know how the game is played here,but I find it disgusting that these partisan hacks are trying to slam the whole Bush administration for this debacle. All the while they are so blatantly ignoring the democrat elephants in the middle of the room! Meanwhile,Bush's admin. has laid no blame whatsoever on the local or state polls in La. I think that the sheer classlessness of the senators that are playing partisan politics with this tragedy is very telling indeed. How many Republicans have publicly slammed these two incompetant buffoons? If they have I have not seen,or heard them do it. Class vs crass,and it's easy to see which party is which here.
Riffhard |
| September 8th, 2005 09:40 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
glencar wrote:
It's much more politically advantageous for them to attack Michael Brown whilst not mentioning Nagin & Blanco. Fire all three, I say!
Brown can be fired right now. Elected officials have a different process, but they need to go, no doubt. |
| September 8th, 2005 09:55 PM |
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| Riffhard |
I don't know Pdog. While I fully agree that Brown is in way over his head. I don't know if it makes sense to fire him while still in the midst of this event. As for Blanco and Nagin,I have no doubts that the voters of Louisianna will fire them in short order. Lots of questions will be asked on the state,local,and fedral end of this clusterfuck,as well they should be. Why for instance,did La.(NO in particular)not take advantage of the federal matching funds to help secure the levees? Why were millions of fedral levee grant funds earmarked for the levees instead spent on the restoration of Mardi Gras fountains by the Nagin goverment?! Lots of blame to go around for sure.
Riffhard
[Edited by Riffhard] |
| September 8th, 2005 10:09 PM |
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| Bloozehound |
can you guy even imagine the enviromental damage that pumping that toxic cess pool back into lake pontchartrain and then into the gulf of mexico is gonna cause
think i'm gonna lay off the crayfish for a decade or so |
| September 9th, 2005 10:06 AM |
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| egon |
and meantime bush is on holiday:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/Egonvdv/BushVaca.jpg |
| September 9th, 2005 10:10 AM |
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| glencar |
Photoshopped? |
| September 9th, 2005 10:11 AM |
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| egon |
of course not glenny.
bush is an evil EVIL man, with no heart.
one day you too will see the truth  |
| September 9th, 2005 10:16 AM |
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| glencar |
LOL Maybe if I ever get unreasonably excited...You know I used to really like him but I still can't see why there's so much hate for him. But now, I'm off to Chicago. Have a great weekend! |
| September 9th, 2005 10:17 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
egon wrote:
of course not glenny.
bush is an evil EVIL man, with no heart.
one day you too will see the truth
This is true..............he is very heartless....his Mom actually claimed the victims were better off in the Astrodome..what a fucking snob!!! |
| September 9th, 2005 10:18 AM |
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| egon |
you too glenny enjoy!!!!
JB, how's the lawyer biz these days?
do you put many (black) people in jail? |
| September 9th, 2005 10:23 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
egon wrote:
you too glenny enjoy!!!!
JB, how's the lawyer biz these days?
do you put many (black) people in jail?
No, I don't do criminal work....and if I did, I would defend them as opposed to prosecute alleged criminals. The law business is fine.....I have a few big cases I am trying to settle so I can get the Maserati Quatro-Porte next year......regards. |
| September 9th, 2005 10:28 AM |
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| egon |
good.
maybe if you don't get the full opions (who needs heating in their seats in floriday), you have some money left to
come to europe next year.
as opposed to many other people i'd greet you.
and i wouldn't let you pay for everything!
[Edited by egon] |
| September 9th, 2005 10:31 AM |
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| Jumping Jack |
Are Nancy Pelosi and the Runaway Bride related? Nancy's deer in the headlight expressions scare the hell out of me. Talk about evil. Good thing she is stupid or she might be dangerous. |
| September 9th, 2005 10:31 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
jb wrote:
This is true..............he is very heartless....
Yeah he is. Just ask Tammy Faye Tucker. |
| September 9th, 2005 10:35 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
egon wrote:
good.
maybe if you don't get the full opions (who needs heating in their seats in floriday), you have some money left to
come to europe next year.
as opposed to many other people i'd greet you.
and i wouldn't let you pay for everything!
[Edited by egon]
Thanks..but truthfully, everyone I met has been great....the board personalities are just that..a fun outlet which only a few douche bags take seriously. I would like to travel to Europe......but I have some personal matters that may effect it(good things). Any chance of you coming to New Yorkin 06? Gazza in coming? |
| September 9th, 2005 10:37 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Yeah he is. Just ask Tammy Faye Tucker.
But then again what can you expect. Grampy Pressky was business buddy of Hitler's. |
| September 9th, 2005 10:40 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
But then again what can you expect. Grampy Pressky was business buddy of Hitler's.
Exactly..........and King Saud....where the oil all started..................these born agins are so anti-abortion, but they fry your ass in a second ...fucking hypocrites...every one of them. |
| September 9th, 2005 10:45 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
King Saud was a christian????? |
| September 9th, 2005 10:47 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
King Saud was a christian?????
No..but Bush and the Dulles Brothers started the Oil connection with him way back when.... |
| September 9th, 2005 10:52 AM |
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| egon |
quote:
jb wrote:
Any chance of you coming to New Yorkin 06?
I'd like to, but can not confirm it at this moment.
it will have to be a last minute thing.
i don't know if i can take time off work and/or if i
have enough holidays left.
always wanted to see new york, so that in combination with
a stones concert & RO gathering is reason enough to go...
what are the dates btw? |
| September 9th, 2005 10:57 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
egon wrote:
I'd like to, but can not confirm it at this moment.
it will have to be a last minute thing.
i don't know if i can take time off work and/or if i
have enough holidays left.
always wanted to see new york, so that in combination with
a stones concert & RO gathering is reason enough to go...
what are the dates btw?
Right now jan 18th with a strong possibility of another show Jan 20th........... |
| September 9th, 2005 11:00 AM |
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| egon |
thanks. really hope i can make this happen |
| September 9th, 2005 11:36 AM |
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| Jumping Jack |
washingtonpost.com
Where to Point the Fingers
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, September 9, 2005; A25
In less enlightened times there was no catastrophe independent of human agency. When the plague or some other natural disaster struck, witches were burned, Jews were massacred and all felt better (except the witches and Jews).
A few centuries later, our progressive thinkers have progressed not an inch. No fall of a sparrow on this planet is not attributed to sin and human perfidy. The three current favorites are: (1) global warming, (2) the war in Iraq and (3) tax cuts. Katrina hits and the unholy trinity is immediately invoked to damn sinner-in-chief George W. Bush.
This kind of stupidity merits no attention whatsoever, but I'll give it a paragraph. There is no relationship between global warming and the frequency and intensity of Atlantic hurricanes. Period. The problem with the evacuation of New Orleans is not that National Guardsmen in Iraq could not get to New Orleans but that National Guardsmen in Louisiana did not get to New Orleans. As for the Bush tax cuts, administration budget requests for New Orleans flood control during the five Bush years exceed those of the five preceding Clinton years. The notion that the allegedly missing revenue would have been spent wisely by Congress, targeted precisely to the levees of New Orleans, and that the reconstruction would have been completed in time, is a threefold fallacy. The argument ends when you realize that, as The Post noted, "the levees that failed were already completed projects."
Let's be clear. The author of this calamity was, first and foremost, Nature (or if you prefer, Nature's God). The suffering was augmented, aided and abetted in descending order of culpability by the following:
1. The mayor of New Orleans. He knows the city. He knows the danger. He knows that during Hurricane Georges in 1998, the use of the Superdome was a disaster and fully two-thirds of residents never got out of the city. Nothing was done. He declared a mandatory evacuation only 24 hours before Hurricane Katrina hit. He did not even declare a voluntary evacuation until the day before that, at 5 p.m. At that time, he explained that he needed to study his legal authority to call a mandatory evacuation and was hesitating to do so lest the city be sued by hotels and other businesses.
2. The governor. It's her job to call up the National Guard and get it to where it has to go. Where the Guard was in the first few days is a mystery. Indeed, she issued an authorization for the National Guard to commandeer school buses to evacuate people on Wednesday afternoon -- more than two days after the hurricane hit and after much of the fleet had already drowned in its parking lots.
3. The head of FEMA. Late, slow and in way over his head. On Thursday, Sept. 2, he said on national television that he didn't even know there were people in the convention center, when anybody watching television could see them there, destitute and desperate. Maybe in his vast bureaucracy he can assign three 20-year-olds to watch cable news and give him updates every hour on what in hell is going on.
4. The president. Late, slow, and simply out of tune with the urgency and magnitude of the disaster. The second he heard that the levees had been breached in New Orleans, he should have canceled his schedule and addressed the country on national television to mobilize it both emotionally and physically to assist in the disaster. His flyover on the way to Washington was the worst possible symbolism. And his Friday visit was so tone-deaf and politically disastrous that he had to fly back three days later.
5. Congress. Now as always playing holier-than-thou. Perhaps it might ask itself who created the Department of Homeland Security in the first place. The congressional response to all crises is the same -- rearrange the bureaucratic boxes, but be sure to add one extra layer. The past four years of DHS have been spent principally on bureaucratic reorganization (and real estate) instead of, say, a workable plan for as predictable a disaster as a Gulf Coast hurricane.
6. The American people. They have made it impossible for any politician to make any responsible energy policy over the past 30 years -- but that is a column for another day. Now is not the time for constructive suggestions. Now is the time for blame, recrimination and sheer astonishment. Mayor Ray Nagin has announced that, as bodies are still being found and as a public health catastrophe descends upon the city, he is sending 60 percent of his cops on city funds for a little R&R, mostly to Vegas hotels. Asked if it was appropriate to party in these circumstances, he responded: "New Orleans is a party town. Get over it."
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| September 9th, 2005 02:39 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Bush had both her and Mayor Nagin onboard Air Force1. She refused to discuss the issue while Nagin was present!!! Bush and the governor retreated to his office abord the plane. It was then that Bush "strongly reccomend" that she,with Nagin's assitance,order the evacuation. She said,and I quote,"Well,it was all very confusing,and I felt that I needed time to think it over."
This description of these sounds like you were sitting right there in Air Force One. Please cite when this happened and where you are quoting from cause I'm guessing you weren't there. The news reports that I saw just before Katrina hit said that there was a manditory evacuation order. (on whose authority I have no idea) I have a cousin in the Navy down there who was ordered out but couldn't leave until Tues.
quote:
However,it is a state run by democrats,and has been for over sixty years. Blanco is a democrat. Nagin is a democrat. Louisianna is the home of Huey Long for fuck's sake! It has long been held(and corrupted I might add) by the democrat party,very much like my state of New Jersey in that regard.
Louisana has a long history of corruption in all it's politics. . Political patronage is the norm in this country. I think that the politics of patronage have been raised to an artform in the South. I don't think corruption comes from any orders from one centralized party, it's just how things get done in this country. Show me one politician in this country that claims to never been compensated in any way for their vote and I'll show you a liar!
quote:
It is not the federal goverments job to babysit these clowns in La.
Why do the people in LA pay federal taxes then?
quote:
I am still waiting to hear Hillary, Pelosi, Kennedy, Lehey, or any other of these partisan fucks to lay any of the blame where it rightfully belongs. They have been useing every oppurtunity to tear this president down since 2000. The fact that they would use the worst natural catastrophy in the country's history is about as crass,and obscene as it gets.
Wow! You have an incredibly short memory. 9/11 was the most catastrophic event this country has seen since Pearl Harbor. This became the most politically exploited event this country has ever seen. The 2004 presidential election began in early 2002 using these peoples horrific deaths as a rallying cry against another political party. 9/11 was exploited to weaken labor laws (Dept. of Homeland Security don't get paid overtime etc.), weaken privacy rights (Patriot Act), terror alerts were rampant. . .notice how there hasn't been a terror alert since the election? It doesn't get any crasser than that! Don't take my word for do your own google search for "9/11, politicize, Bush". . . .there are thousands of references here.
Speaking of 9/11, FEMA performed admirably for this event. Nat guard troops were deployed and the areas south of 14th St. got locked down to all but the residents. I think Bush showing up on the rubble a few days later to speak on the bullhorn was exactly what this country needed. The country need to see that there was leadership and he stepped up. That is probably the only moment that I had any respect for the guy.
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| September 9th, 2005 02:58 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
glencar wrote:
It's much more politically advantageous for them to attack Michael Brown whilst not mentioning Nagin & Blanco. Fire all three, I say!
If there is negligence on the Governor and Mayor's part I agree with you. . .fire'em. It's my understanding that the NOPD was completely understaffed and overwhelmed by the hurricane. This all more reason to look to the State and Feds for help. All state and local governments are feeling very piched these days because of a cutback in funds they receive from the Feds. Could it be that 3 consecutive tax cuts for Paris Hilton have hampered the amount revenue the Feds have to give out?
BTW I don't believe all Democrats are good and virtuous and that all Republicans are evil. There are those in the Dem party that I despise; Feinstein, Biden and quite a few others. I find that the current Republican leadership has redefined what it means to be a Republican so far to the right that many old school Republicans are scratching their heads. |
