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Topic: Hurricane Katrina (NSC) Return to archive Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
September 2nd, 2005 09:18 AM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
Theres lots of time later for blame..



Well, maybe it's not cool to point fingers at people or political parties in a situation like this but I don't think it's wrong to question the policies that contributed to the magnitude of the disaster. Policies like why that levee was never upgraded to where it should have been.
September 2nd, 2005 09:23 AM
gimmekeef Well things like levees and food distribution and police enforcement are all controlled by governments.They are inherently political and therefore the least capable of responding or planning to manage situations like this.And it wouldnt matter which party was in power it'd be the same FUBAR....
September 2nd, 2005 09:52 AM
gimmekeef Apparently the Army Corp of Engineers holds the bag on the levees.....Just read it on Yahoo...
September 2nd, 2005 09:55 AM
Moonisup wow people are starving! It's the same as Sudan, a third world thing
September 2nd, 2005 10:19 AM
glencar LJ, everyone had 3 or 4 days to get out of town before that storm came. That they didn't isn't the fault of those who did leave, it's their own fault. I saw a headline just now that the relief effort has been criticized by the President himself. Expect major improvements.

Dutch Rik, this is nothing like Sudan. This is a natural disaster, not a torturous regime bent on subjugating, raping & killing its enemies.
[Edited by glencar]
September 2nd, 2005 10:22 AM
egon fyi:
holland is sending a vessel from the dutch antilles,
with supplies & rescue material.
you see; you are not alone!
September 2nd, 2005 10:24 AM
gimmekeef Without any major public transit effort to move people out..just how could many of those poor folks leave?..And where would they go?...Their political "leaders" told em to head for the Dome with no plan to deal with that...(oops now I'm doin the blame thing too)....Lets just get more help there fast...
September 2nd, 2005 10:28 AM
LadyJane
quote:
glencar wrote:
LJ, everyone had 3 or 4 days to get out of town before that storm came. That they didn't isn't the fault of those who did leave, it's their own fault. I saw a headline just now that the relief effort has been criticized by the President himself. Expect major improvements.

[Edited by glencar]



Granted. Some people did not heed the warnings.

However, even YOU must admit that many people did not have the means to get out....

If one has no car, no $$, is homebound, in hospital, homeless...then tough...it's their fault??? Not buying that. Never will.

LJ.
September 2nd, 2005 10:35 AM
jb The poor people of NOLA had no chance..this is a national disgrace!!!! Poor mothers and babies without food for days!!! Outrageous and unacceptable.....I am appalled at our President's complete lack of leadership........Oh, and off course FOX NEWS is focusing on the looters and saying how great a job FEMA is doing....this is so fucking outrageous that even you "righties" should be appalled...
September 2nd, 2005 10:36 AM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:
egon wrote:
fyi:
holland is sending a vessel from the dutch antilles,
with supplies & rescue material.
you see; you are not alone!



Well you do what you can. Thanks. I think those 'dike experts' can be a great help.

September 2nd, 2005 10:38 AM
egon from everywhere it starting now; sri lanka, uk, france germany.
September 2nd, 2005 10:46 AM
nankerphelge I lived there in 1985.

Everyone that lives in New Orleans for more than 3 seconds and with a functioning brain in their head KNOWS the "doomsday scenario" that we just witnessed. I weathered 2 smaller storms, and the mentality was "no big deal -- they always say evacuate but no one ever does." They told people to leave any many did, but there will always be those that stay.

No question that many couldn't leave. It is a poor, poverty filled state. I do believe the National Guard should have helped evacuate those that couldn't get out. But even a full blown evacuation by the Guard would not have gotten everyone out -- some will never leave.

The levees around NO are massive and there are a lot of them -- to say "upgrade" them is easy but to do it is not. It is a costly and complicated undertaking. When balanced with everything else that needs money, it never got done. That blame can be laid at a lot of people's feet over a LONG period of time (and ultimately it does not help fix the present problem).

It is not as if there has been no planning for this -- there is plenty. I just believe that this storm was so overwhelming that it was really difficult for anyone to prepare for it adequately. Hopefully they will get the flooding under control soon so that real help can get in and around the city.
September 2nd, 2005 10:48 AM
Moonisup yesterday on the news: they warned about this in 2000 already, but since 2001 the budget was cut by 50%.
But it's an outrage the people can't be helped in time!
that's really sad
September 2nd, 2005 10:55 AM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
The levees around NO are massive and there are a lot of them -- to say "upgrade" them is easy but to do it is not. It is a costly and complicated undertaking. When balanced with everything else that needs money, it never got done. That blame can be laid at a lot of people's feet over a LONG period of time (and ultimately it does not help fix the present problem).




From what I understand is that NO was just about on sea level until the levee system over the last hundred years diverted the silt that built up, under the area. The wetlands to the south act like a big sponge but they're disappearing because the silt is being "blown out" into tha ocean nowadays hence more powerful tidal surges.
September 2nd, 2005 11:01 AM
throbby I agree JB. This is an absolute fucking national disgrace. No food, no water, corpses rotting on the sidewalk. GWB can't be blamed for the storm, but his administration sure as hell can be blamed for its feeble response to this crisis.
September 2nd, 2005 11:11 AM
Moonisup
quote:
throbby wrote:
I agree JB. This is an absolute fucking national disgrace. No food, no water, corpses rotting on the sidewalk. GWB can't be blamed for the storm, but his administration sure as hell can be blamed for its feeble response to this crisis.



I don't know if you all know that, but the news in most of the countries around us are giving us that impression too. and GWB gets the blame, but it's indeed the whole team
September 2nd, 2005 11:17 AM
nankerphelge I've heard the "levees made it worse" argument before.
I don't know if that is true, but it doesn't much matter.
Fact is, they keep the water out of the city under normal conditions. When they fail, the city floods -- this ain't rocket science and it ain't new!

I can accept the fact that the city or state or feds never had the ability to convince people that the levees needed help. When years pass and hurricanes pass and the city is fine after each, anyone with a "Sky is Falling" message is treated like Chicken Little. But in hindsight, everyone acts all shocked!

Okay, you don't fix the levees, well then you better be prepared to bus people out of that city BEFORE it floods. Because once it does flood, ain't much going in and ain't much coming out, as we all see.
September 2nd, 2005 11:24 AM
2000 Man
quote:
texile wrote:
new orleans is a national treasure - as a southerner....
there's a ceratin pride in perseverance and this is no exception; i was in alicia, parents made it through carla -but it was nothing like this..
the gods will rain down, but it can't kill the spirit.....i had to do a story on a local shelter here in texas - people were barbequeing....one kid was playing the piano - the rest of the kids were having a great time - the adults were trying to hold it together, and everybody was trying to make the best of it..
god bless




I'm a norhterner, and fuck if I can understand half of the crazy things southerners do, but I can't agree more with your assessment of New Orleans. It is truly, a national treasure. Not just as a southerner - us northerners think so, too. The food, the music, the architecture - it's truly unique and a place I have always wanted to go, since I was little. I hope it comes back. I won't be one of those jackasses saying "what do they expect when they build under sea level, why should we help?" shit. We should help because those are our brothers and sisters there, and because New Orleans is a national treasure, and the only place in the world like it.
September 2nd, 2005 11:26 AM
The_Worst
quote:
jb wrote:
The poor people of NOLA had no chance..this is a national disgrace!!!! Poor mothers and babies without food for days!!! Outrageous and unacceptable.....I am appalled at our President's complete lack of leadership........Oh, and off course FOX NEWS is focusing on the looters and saying how great a job FEMA is doing....this is so fucking outrageous that even you "righties" should be appalled...



If you are going to blame GWB then you sure as fuck better blame the DEMOCRATIC MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS & THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR OF LOUISIANA first. They are the ones closest to the scene!!! Before the storm hit GWB went on TV & told everyone to get out. They had the emergency crews standing by waiting for the storm to pass to go in...Problem is the storm was so severe that it destroyed all roads into town.

Now I ask you, GIVE ME SPECIFICS OF WHAT GWB SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT HE DIDN'T. SPECIFICS!!!

Don't give me the "We need more National Guard Troops there". That is common sense. Tell me how? Tell me how this support is supposed to get there faster than it has... Everyone is quick to point the finger & say who fucked up but I haven't heard anyone come up with any better solutions...

It is absolutly fucking disgusting the way the democratic party is trying to point the blame of this solely on Bush. This is politics at it's absolute fucking worse.

THIS IS WHY THIS IS CALLED A NATIONAL DISASTER PEOPLE!!!
September 2nd, 2005 11:31 AM
Moonisup the g'nor did not cut 50%, that was someone else. They used the budget for the war in iraq and other countries
September 2nd, 2005 11:33 AM
2000 Man
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
It is not as if there has been no planning for this -- there is plenty. I just believe that this storm was so overwhelming that it was really difficult for anyone to prepare for it adequately. Hopefully they will get the flooding under control soon so that real help can get in and around the city.



The problem seems to be that even after 9/11 and hurricanes in FLA our response is now worsening instead of getting better. I actually heard a fucking dink from FEMA saying they were really best at writing checks and depositing money in bank accounts, and that these people have no bank accounts (I don't know if that's because they're poor or the banks are gone, but I work closely with the banking industry and it's a pretty small, shortsighted bank that has all their computer storage in one place).

If that's really all FEMA does, I'd think two or three regular employees should be all that's required, and the budget should be very small. Since 9/11 we've had time and enough crap happen to demand better first response services from our government. ALL of our representatives owe us a fucking apology and had better fix this shit NOW.
September 2nd, 2005 11:37 AM
Ten Thousand Motels Dennis Hastert should resign...NOW...ignorant, insensitive fuck.
September 2nd, 2005 11:40 AM
throbby >THIS IS WHY THIS IS CALLED A NATIONAL DISASTER PEOPLE!!!


Which is why we have a National Guard. Tell me, where are they? In Iraq you say?

I can surely blame the current administration for this.

The National Guard troops belong in the U.S. just for situations like this, not out fighting foreign wars.
September 2nd, 2005 11:43 AM
Ten Thousand Motels And what's more I think we should cut off all the pork going into his district.
September 2nd, 2005 11:46 AM
Joey
quote:
throbby wrote:
I agree JB. This is an absolute fucking national disgrace. No food, no water, corpses rotting on the sidewalk. GWB can't be blamed for the storm, but his administration sure as hell can be blamed for its feeble response to this crisis.




The American people are very very smart --- when they watch television and don't like what they see , they usually decide to switch leaders ( see : Tet '68 , Gas Lines '74 , Debacle in Desert[ Iran Rescue Attempt ] '80 , & L.A. Riots in '92 ). Word!

Flacky !

September 2nd, 2005 11:57 AM
Moonisup
quote:
Joey wrote:



The American people are very very smart

Flacky !






they have jacky and jb!
September 2nd, 2005 12:23 PM
The_Worst
quote:
throbby wrote:
>THIS IS WHY THIS IS CALLED A NATIONAL DISASTER PEOPLE!!!


Which is why we have a National Guard. Tell me, where are they? In Iraq you say?

I can surely blame the current administration for this.

The National Guard troops belong in the U.S. just for situations like this, not out fighting foreign wars.



Yes, SOME of the National Guard is in Iraq but I have not heard ONE person on the ground in New Orleans say the reason this is happening is because the Guard is in Iraq. We've heard Michael Moore & some anti-Iraq politicians say it but not those on the ground. This disaster is being used by those against the war as an opportiunity to try & bash Bush & take him down. They really don't give a fuck about anything but politics at this point & I think it is politics at it's absolute worse.

Was there poor planning in this situation? Sure!!! Is Iraq the reason New Orleans is crumbling? NO FUCKING WAY!!!

NEW ORLEANS WOULD HAVE BEEN DESTROYED WHETHER WE WERE IN IRAQ OR NOT & THE RELIEF WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN THERE ANY FASTER!!!
September 2nd, 2005 12:29 PM
Ten Thousand Motels Sick 'em Toto!
September 2nd, 2005 12:34 PM
Ten Thousand Motels GWB 43 President of the United States.

[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
September 2nd, 2005 12:35 PM
Jumping Jack Absolutely correct!

Can women truly lead in a crisis? That crying Governor blaming everyone else instead of leading and finding solutions to problems is an absolute disgrace. When Iran starts lobbing nukes at Isreal will Hillary just sit there in shock and cry?
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