Wrong - First, the balance of power is so lopsided that they will never pose more of a threat than they do now, and its not much of one in the grand scheme. Second, they don't even come close to having or obtaining the industriousness, command, ethic and, lets face it, intellectual firepower that Germans have. They are too fucked in the head - like you said, they focus on shit like banning kites and hiding their women. They pose no more a relative threat than they do now - which isn't to trivialize it, there will be plenty of more suicide bombs, hijackings, and all kinds of other whacked out deaths, but nothing close to the upheavals and carnage that Germany nationalism caused.
One nuke in NYC, one nuke in D.C. and there is serious upheaval myfriend. Moofheaval! Upmoofal! We are dealing with an enemy that doesn't care if the live or die and does not wear a uniform.
27th July 2006 05:47 PM
not bound to please
That's also from a Bollywood film...
27th July 2006 05:49 PM
pdog
quote:not bound to please wrote:
pdog - those are Sikhs...
27th July 2006 05:50 PM
pdog
quote:Maxlugar wrote:
and does not wear a uniform.
27th July 2006 05:51 PM
glencar
You've surpassed Joey!
27th July 2006 05:52 PM
not bound to please
quote:pdog wrote:
Mexican on meth?
27th July 2006 06:00 PM
pdog
quote:not bound to please wrote:
Mexican on meth?
27th July 2006 06:01 PM
pdog
quote:glencar wrote:
You've surpassed Joey!
27th July 2006 06:41 PM
not bound to please
quote:pdog wrote:
This guy does not look Mexican.
27th July 2006 06:42 PM
Rolling1
Glencar.. Funny, I didnt say i don't have a college degree, just agreeding with your comment on GED. Anyway i was only defending my comments (kinda like israel is defending its country, but only in a smaller way, no one gets killed). As for being someones bitch that is exactly why i retired, someone else's turn to be the bitch. Hope your 49 is soon so you can enjoy retirement as much as i do. But, i've got my eyes on the new challenger with the hemi, so i might have to go to work p/t to afford one. But thats a year away at best. As Mr John Lee Hooker stated on House Rent Blues, ROCK ON!
[Edited by Rolling1]
27th July 2006 06:46 PM
Dan
A Challenger? Like in the movie Vanishing Point? And you are complaining about a War For Oil? It would probably take 2 full time jobs to gas that sucker up, and you should have to fight to the death for every gallon. Damn.
27th July 2006 06:52 PM
glencar
LOL And Mr. Conservative here drives a hybrid. I always have to suffer for the loony libs!
27th July 2006 06:52 PM
glencar
Makes me wanna pout!
27th July 2006 07:32 PM
mojoman
pass the peace pipe
27th July 2006 07:46 PM
Rolling1
dan, No one should one be expected to drive a car that gets 40 mpg because our admin are oil lords either. Last 4 years, price of gasoline up 300 percent +, and no end in site. If a major conflict breaks out, sky is the limit. Then we can use another excuse to make it 5.00/10.00 a gallon. So dont worry if i purchase a hemi. Maybe we should look at who is in charge, for that all important leadership. Guess mobil making 10 Billion 1st quarter is nothing. Lets look at this another direction 10B / quarter (3 months = 91 days = little over 10 million dollars, may I repeat, little over 10 million dollars profit every single day! And thats only 1 of many oil corps making millions every single day. Rich getting richer, middle class getting smaller and smaller every day. Give me the good old days back, where everyone seemed a little happier with a lot less.
27th July 2006 07:58 PM
Dan
quote:Rolling1 wrote:
dan, No one should one be expected to drive a car that gets 40 mpg because our admin are oil lords either. Last 4 years, price of gasoline up 300 percent +, and no end in site.
It didn't take a genius to see this coming long before Bush was elected.
quote:
If a major conflict breaks out, sky is the limit. Then we can use another excuse to make it 5.00/10.00 a gallon. So dont worry if i purchase a hemi. Maybe we should look at who is in charge, for that all important leadership. Guess mobil making 10 Billion 1st quarter is nothing. Lets look at this another direction 10B / quarter (3 months = 91 days = little over 10 million dollars, may I repeat, little over 10 million dollars profit every single day! And thats only 1 of many oil corps making millions every single day. Rich getting richer, middle class getting smaller and smaller every day. Give me the good old days back, where everyone seemed a little happier with a lot less.
Happiness is an arbitrary concept that is meaningless to me. My own worry is skyrocketing housing costs which I am having a hard time finding a way to blame that on the administration. And howe were you ever able to retire early with such a negative view of the concept of profit?
27th July 2006 08:48 PM
pdog
quote:not bound to please wrote:
This guy does not look Mexican.
27th July 2006 08:54 PM
ComeAsYouAre
quote:_Boomy_ wrote:
What in the heck is goin' on here!
Gary Busey? LOL
27th July 2006 08:59 PM
Joey
quote:glencar wrote:
You've surpassed Joey!
..........................
[Edited by Joey]
27th July 2006 09:15 PM
pdog
My Pussy has mad skillz!
27th July 2006 09:30 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:pdog wrote:
That just kills me...can I use this?
27th July 2006 09:43 PM
pdog
quote:Fiji Joe wrote:
That just kills me...can I use this?
Sure, I got more crayons!
You'll like this too!
27th July 2006 10:19 PM
Zulu Fun Mix
quote:Fiji Joe wrote:
These backwards Islamists are the foot soldiers for the Russo/Chinese army...why won't you believe me when I tell you that?...why?
Dude, could you possibly be more stupid?
27th July 2006 10:23 PM
glencar
quote:Joey wrote:
..........................
[Edited by Joey]
I prefer the pussy cat to the doggie.
27th July 2006 10:25 PM
nankerphelge
WASHINGTON -- "An international peacekeeping force in Lebanon will change nothing, and we will have chosen shame.
"We [not only Israel but the threatened West] need to choose war once and for all to eradicate that system," a former terrorist told NewsMax in an exclusive interview about the current Middle East crisis.
His name is Walid Shoebat and he is a man with a tough message.
He is also a former fundamentalist Islamic terrorist who, incredibly, reformed. He is now an author, lecturer, and unabashed friend of Israel.
He travels the United States repeating, in a modern context, Winston Churchill's warning to those who would appease Hitler's evil: "We have a choice between shame and war!"
Shoebat was born in Bethlehem. As a young man, he entered the belly of the beast and became a member of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, participating in acts of terror and violence against Israel.
He was later imprisoned in the Russian Compound, Jerusalem's central prison, for incitement and violence against Israel.
After his release, Shoebat continued his life of violence in Bethlehem and the Temple Mount. After entering the United States, he worked as a counselor for the Arab Student Organization at Loop College in Chicago, where he persisted with his extremist activities.
But then in a life-changing event, his wife challenged him to study Israeli history and leave behind the Jew-hating indoctrination of his youth. He did and emerged from the "detoxification" experience with the fresh orientation that Israel is not a demon but simply perennially on the defensive against extremists.
The Arabic speaker, who now makes a study of the fanaticism that once enveloped his life, told NewsMax that the West had better abandon its political correctness and worries about world opinion and get down-and-dirty in the war on terrorism. And the West should start with taming the roots of that terrorism, the "mosque clergy" that preaches the hate.
"We have to treat the problem by going to the source of the problem, and that is what we are not doing," Shoebat said. "We are trying to destroy terrorist infrastructure - after it has been established. We have to look at the root causes of terrorism and the root causes spring from the mosque clergy." Shoebat explained that in his opinion there are thousands of hate-dispensing Islamic clergy, including hundreds in the United States:
"We can't touch it because we don't want to invade another religion," he lamented. "We have to treat this dogma - not as a religion - but as a political dogma."
All over the world, Shoebat wants laws enacted that just say - no more hate-mongering from so-called religious leaders: "Once a religion goes beyond its borders, it has to be treated differently. It has to be shut down. You have to arrest these clergy. You've got to throw them in jail."
Shoebat explained that in his view the offending clergy has, for example, been "schooling out" from Saudi Arabia and from the University of Egypt.
He derided the European Union's notion that if you can't beat them, then include them, and maybe they will learn from us - from our way of life - to change their ways.
"This is a stupid thing," he unabashedly concluded.
For sure, Shoebat doesn't mince words.
Within the context of the crisis with Israel and Lebanon, Shoebat said that Israel needed to invade the whole of Lebanon and cleanse it of the Hezbollah - once and for all.
"If you don't do that, it doesn't matter how much of a buffer zone that you establish, because you have to understand that we live in a world of technology and things get more sophisticated."
He goes on to note that Iran, a sponsor of Hezbollah, has rockets that can reach Israel as well: "Terrorists are very creative, you know. As a terrorist we were very creative. We find a different way or different method."
Shoebat said he was distressed that Israel was apparently not ready to occupy the whole of Lebanon because they are afraid of the condemnation of world community: "As long as we are worried about the feelings of the world community, we are never going to really eradicate the problem.
"We either hit them now, or we have to hit them much harder later, and it is going to be much more expensive and much more deadly."
No Room for Negotiation
The negotiation thing is a raw spot with Shoebat, who routinely compares what Arabs say in English to what they say in Arabic. Basically, he is of the opinion that from the fanatics' deeply rooted and dogmatic point of view, there can be no treaties with an enemy.
So if Israel gains the upper edge militarily, he opined, and even if Syria agreed to some kind of truce, any cease fire would only be temporary - until Syria's "puppets" in Lebanon, the Hezbollah, regroup and grow strong once again.
"Condoleezza Rice is going to come back empty handed," he suggested about the U.S. secretary of state's current peace mission to the Middle East.
"It is going to be worse," he added.
"It is not time to move to send the State Department to do any negotiations. This is the wrong time to do any negotiations. You have to wait until Israel eradicates Hezbollah. We have to aide Israel - even if we stand with Israel by ourselves."
Shoebat explained that, in his opinion, the Middle East is a very fragile society, where everybody is afraid of being painted as a pro-America, pro-Zionist.
"Prime ministers and presidents in the Middle East can not get elected by being pro-America. This is what you have in Iraq. Iraq should be the lesson," he noted, referring to the Iraq president's recent overt and controversial sympathy with the Hezbollah.
Shoebat added that the president of Iraq knows that some day the Americans will be gone and he is going to have to reckon with Hezbollah. "He supports Hezbollah because of the tie with Iran. They are afraid of Iran."
"Yeah, we should negotiate Syria. It is not wrong to sit down at the table with Syria." "But," Shoebat emphasized, "the message must be, ‘You dismantle Hezbollah, then we negotiate with you.'"
"Look, this has nothing to do with jobs," Shoebat impatiently explained. "The issue of fundamentalist Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with land. Gaza was given back. Nothing changed, and it even became worse. It has nothing to do with poverty . . .
"It is the dogma of Islamic salvation that you must conquer the world for Islam . . . They want to destroy the West. They want to establish Shia Islamic law all throughout the world. They have this crazy dogma - and somebody's got to take them seriously."
Shoebat wants Americans to finally understand the true volatile nature of the beast they are up against: "Over 90 percent of Pakistanis want an Islamist state. They have nuclear weapons already, and the regime in Pakistan is so sensitive that it could be collapsing any moment as we speak . . .
"You have a country like Iran building nuclear and flexing its muscle on the whole Middle East region . . .
"You have Sudan where they killed 1.5 million Christian civilians . . .
"You have Jordan where the majority of Jordanians supported Osama Bin Laden and still do . . ."
Fanatical or not, wasn't it literally suicidal for Hezbollah to antagonize Israel with the kidnappings of its soldiers?
"Hezbollah did not know the extent of Israel's retaliation," Shoebat opined.
In his view, Hezbollah thought it would be more business-as-usual – kidnap the soldiers and get Israel to exchange them for brethren being held by Israel. But Israel confounded the Hezbollah, drawing a line in the sand, saying basically that such kidnapping would only beget more of the same.
"The bargaining chip didn't work their [Hezbollah's] way," he explained.
‘We' Terrorists Are Very Patient
Shoebat is known to start his lectures with, "I am not ashamed to stand in front of you and say I am Walid Shoebat and I used to be a Palestinian terrorist."
Though now long separated from the murderous fundamentalist movement, the now middle-aged man who lives in northern California will occasionally slip and use the collective "we" in talking about the terrorists: "Hitler was about establishing his Nazi dogma throughout the whole word. Communism was the same thing.
"This is the kind of system. They have no respect for borders, just like Communism and Nazis. The end justifies the means - it doesn't matter how you do it, or how long it takes, as long as we get what we want in the end."
Yes, patience is the message, Shoebat preaches. The extremists outlasted the Russians in Afghanistan and they will eventually outlast the American occupiers as well, he says.
The same sorry scenario is also potentially true with Iraq.
And the patience thing extends all the way to the American homeland, Shoebat warned: "People ask me the question how come we haven't been hit [since 9/11]? Well, what they are looking for is a grand finale. They want to cripple America by one event. This is why you don't see small-time bombings in America... They are waiting to get a dirty bomb, a nuclear bomb of any sort and blow up a few cities.
"Is that what it is going to take to wake America up?"
"After an attempt to destroy trains in New York and after an attempt to destroy the Sears Tower and after an attempt of Canadian Muslims to blow up buildings, after Bali, and after all the evidence that we have - we not doing something about it. I think we are in deep trouble."
Democracy-Building Is Not a Magic Bullet
Shoebat derided the American insistence of including the Jerusalem Arabs in the Palestinian electorate. "You know, Israel warned America. Look, this is not an issue of democracy here because if you allow the Jerusalem Arabs to vote, they are going to elect Hamas."
In Shoebat's view, there have never been any true democracies in the Middle East – and most likely, there're never will be: "You show me in history, in 55 Muslim states, when was there ever a real democracy established? So for America to think that they can go and establish a democracy in the Middle East, I think is a very dangerous thing."
Picking the Enemy and Choosing War
All else said, returning to Shoebat's mantra of choosing war over shame, he wants the West to wake up to what he sees as the painful but only realistic course of action: "We can eradicate Iran. It is not a hard thing to stop Iran. But the will of the West is not there. They are not willing to understand, much less see, the writing on the wall."
Shoebat sees the West as burying its collective head in the sand and not facing the grim reality – or matching the enemy's fierce and rigid mindset:
"Now we have to go fix Lebanon," he lamented, expelling a breath. "We have to send aide. We have to establish a peace force. We have to send money - and all of these things. Here we are sending all of this aide to Iraq.
"We have to fix the whole world's problem. We can't do that. That is not what the American position should be. The American position should be that if any country in the Middle East wants to join us, welcome. Anyone who wants to support terrorism, then you are an enemy. End of story."
Shoebat signs off – there is yet another speaking engagement to go to – another forum to preach the hard realities he learned from dwelling within the belly of the beast.
He leaves some parting thoughts: "If the West wants to win, they must be even more stalwart and more intractable than the fierce, sly and ever-patient enemy."
And, finally: "They must choose war over shame."
27th July 2006 10:31 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:Zulu Fun Mix wrote:
Dude, could you possibly be more stupid?
You must be chinese...please do not pour pee pee in my coke
http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/2138.cfm
And just in case I'm wrong...and you're not chinese
[Edited by Fiji Joe]
27th July 2006 10:50 PM
Taptrick
I believe some people are not understanding proportionality. War happens when one side attacks the other. The attacker is called the agressor. Hezbollah was the agressor. Once war happens the goal is not proportionality but victority without concesions. Israel is not at fault for ensuring a northern border free of violence.
Perhaps I can find some common ground with those I disagree with. I do think the UN and western civilzation screwed up with the whole Israel plan after WWII. I think they should have put the UN headquarters in Jerusalem and made the city a celebration of world religion tied to no nation. From that base they could have grown into an effective entity completely in contrast to the useless trivilaity of corruption and weakness it is today.
RIP Atefah Sahaaleh
One day we all will be forced to face this movement's clearly stated goal of religious domination and territorial conquest. Which side will you be on?
27th July 2006 10:53 PM
telecaster
At this point I am so glad the world has an effective and efficient United Nations to handle this problem
Is there nothing the UN can't do?
Man they are great!
27th July 2006 10:55 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:Taptrick wrote:
I do think the UN and western civilzation screwed up with the whole Israel plan after WWII. I think they should have put the UN headquarters in Jerusalem and made the city a celebration of world religion tied to no nation. From that base they could have grown into an effective entity completely in contrast to the useless trivilaity of corruption and weakness it is today.
That would have been a good idea...but only one possible after decades of hindsight...then again, there is no reason it couldn't be done now...well there is a reason why it couldn't be done now...but few are willing to admit it
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