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| Fiji Joe |
Yay
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
JJ...they cannot be rationalized with...
Great Freudian slip!
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
To support Hezbollah one does not need to be Muslim. A Lebenese is an Arab foremost, then either Muslim or Christian. And to a general Arab, every orginisation that fights Israel and US will be supported.
Mathijs
I agree..to support Hezbollah one does not need to be a muslim...but they do very much have to be an anti-semite jew-hater...they pretty much have to be |
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| Dick Bush |
quote:
Jumping Jack wrote:
So, it is fine to hide 13,000 missles behind women and children, and if in eliminating the missles that are intended to kill many others including children there is collateral damage the fault lies with those protecting themselves rather than those who put the children in harms way?
For all those who normally scream about Geneva conventions and rules of war, where is the outrage over hiding missles in city centers among children? Please explain your logic because I am missing it. The pictures are horrible, but whose fault is it really?
Buddy,
Would you shell some missles-hiding resident districts too, if you would know the majority there were Americans? Why not being a little bit selective, are these Arabs - to quote the Fiji's quote - "less than humans"?
Would you bomb yourself resident districts that way? |
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| FotiniD |
Well, Fiji, I've never been called dangerous for not liking and supporting war, but hey, I'll take it!
Believe your goverment's lies, it's alright with me. Bite the propaganda and pass it down to the next generation. Keep the hatred on man. Sure, I'm just ignorant or anti-jewish cause we don't agree.
I hope you never have to bury your children and feel how those mothers have felt. |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Dick Bush wrote:
Buddy,
Would you shell some missles-hiding resident districts too, if you would know the majority there were Americans? Why not being a little bit selective, are these Arabs - to quote the Fiji's quote - "less than humans"?
Would you bomb yourself resident districts that way?
Uh...that's flea's quote...how do you propose they remove those missles?...obtain a UN resolution requiring the Lebanese government do so?...what do you think?...buddy
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| Chuck |
The case of the USS Liberty: anatomy of an Israeli provocation
By Shannon Jones
27 July 2006
WSWS
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jul2006/libe-j27.shtml
The stonewalling and lies used to cover up Israel’s targeting Tuesday of a United Nations outpost in Lebanon and the deaths of four observers recall another well-known incident. In June 1967, in the middle of the Six Day War, Israeli planes and ships attacked a US intelligence ship, killing 34 sailors and wounding another 171 out of a crew of 292.
The USS Liberty had been sent to the eastern Mediterranean to monitor communications of the belligerents in the wake of Israel’s June 4 surprise assault on Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. The former WWII freighter, formally designated a “technical research ship,” had been outfitted with the latest in electronic surveillance equipment by the National Security Agency, enabling navy technicians to intercept and record radio communications in the air and on land.
The Israeli Air Force was well aware of the identity of the Liberty. The weather was clear and the ship was flying a large American flag as it sailed in international waters off the coast of Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula. The vessel had been circled regularly by Israeli warplanes. Some of the planes had come so close that sailors were able to wave at the pilots, who waved back. Unconcerned, American sailors were on the deck sunbathing.
On the afternoon of June 8, without warning, low-flying Israeli fighters repeatedly strafed the USS Liberty with rockets, napalm and cannon. The attack lasted 20 minutes. Rockets tore holes in the ship deck killing and wounding scores of sailors and setting the vessel on fire. Among the wounded was the ship’s captain, William McGonagle.
Torpedo boats continued the assault. Attempts to signal the Israelis to stop the attack were ignored. Instead, the Israeli vessels fired torpedoes at the USS Liberty. One made a direct hit on the ship’s intelligence area, killing 25 US sailors instantly. The boats then advanced to close range, where it would have been impossible not to see the Liberty’s markings. They circled the ship and strafed it with machinegun fire, targeting sailors who were attempting to put out the fires.
With the vessel taking on water and listing, the order was given to abandon ship. When sailors threw rubber life rafts overboard, they were raked with machinegun fire, forcing the sailors to abort the attempt and move below deck.
The Liberty was initially unable to call for help since the Israelis were jamming radio channels. The ship finally reached the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga. Immediately a squadron of fighters was sent to help the Liberty repel the attack. However the planes never arrived. They were recalled under mysterious circumstances on orders from Washington, which evidently was more concerned about avoiding embarrassment for Israel than it was about defending the lives of US sailors.
The attack continued for about one hour and 15 minutes. When the Israelis withdrew, the Liberty was a smoking hulk, two thirds of its crew dead or injured. About one hour later Israeli vessels returned and asked the Liberty if it needed help. The offer was rejected curtly.
It took 16 hours for two US destroyers to reach the assaulted vessel and rescue the crew. Survivors were immediately instructed not to discuss the attack with anyone.
An official Israeli/US cover-up of the incident began immediately. Israel issued a statement that its forces had accidentally attacked a US ship. The excuses advanced were absurd on their face, given the Liberty’s clear markings, the fact that the attack lasted over one hour and the clear indications that it had been earlier correctly identified as a US vessel.
Unofficially, US authorities were well aware the attack was deliberate. Top US officials, Secretary of State Dean Rusk among others, were convinced the Liberty had been deliberately targeted. One CIA report insisted that Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan had personally ordered the attack.
Nevertheless, President Lyndon Johnson appeared on television to announce that 10 US sailors had been killed in a six-minute accidental attack. A report issued three weeks after the incident uncritically accepted this falsified version of events, and Israel eventually paid a derisory $6 million in damages and the matter was dropped.
Crew members who later sought to tell their stories were attacked by pro-Israeli groups as anti-Semitic. For example, James Ennes, an officer on the Liberty, was branded an “Arab propagandist” for publishing a book critical of the official cover-up.
McGonagle, the Liberty’s captain, received a Congressional Medal of Honor for his role in rescuing wounded crew members. However, the ceremony was held virtually in secret. To this day, calls for a new inquiry by survivors of the attack have been rebuffed.
Why was the Liberty attacked? There were many things for Israelis to hide. Undoubtedly they feared that intelligence gathered by the ship could be used to undercut their false claims that the long planned lightning offensive by Israel and the seizure of vast amounts of Arab land in 1967 was an act of self defense.
The Liberty would have been in a position to monitor communications at the outbreak of the war, which would have demonstrated that Israel was the aggressor. There was also the possibility that the ship might collect evidence documenting war crimes, such as the summary executions of captured Egyptian soldiers.
The sinking of the Liberty preceded by one day the Israeli invasion of Syria and the seizure of the Golan Heights. Had the ship still been operational it might have been able to gather evidence to disprove Israel’s later claim that Syria had attacked first.
The cynical and brazen cover-up of Israeli crimes by the United States—from the sinking of the Liberty, to the countless massacres of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians, to the recent bombing of the UN outpost—are connected by a single thread. The United States is willing to tolerate any crimes by Israel, including the killing of its own soldiers, as long as it serves as a guardian of American imperialist interests in the Middle East.
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
FotiniD wrote:
Well, Fiji, I've never been called dangerous for not liking and supporting war, but hey, I'll take it!
Believe your goverment's lies, it's alright with me. Bite the propaganda and pass it down to the next generation. Keep the hatred on man. Sure, I'm just ignorant or anti-jewish cause we don't agree.
I hope you never have to bury your children and feel how those mothers have felt.
No fault whatsoever for not "liking" war...but there can, and most likely will be fault for not "supporting" war...we know this to be true..it's happenened before...and I have no idea if you're an anti-semite...but I can see very clearly you're ignorant...and too ignorant to know you're ignorant...which, unfortunately, is what makes you dangerous
I've fought in a war...I didn't like it and quite frankly, I didn't care to be there...I rationalized very simply...I was killing people who were killing other people...and the people who were being killed didn't ask for it
I hope your children never have to die to keep their children from being buried
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
No fault whatsoever for not "liking" war...but there can, and most likely will be fault for not "supporting" war...we know this to be true..it's happenened before...and I have no idea if you an ant-semite...but I can see very clearly you're ignorant...and too ignorant to know you're ignorant...which, unfortunately, is what makes you dangerous
I hope your children never have to die to keep their children from being buried
Well, I knew it'd come to the whole "if you're not with us, you're against us" in the end. I don't support the war, so I'm ignorant, so I'm dangerous. Alright.
In this whole war for freedom that's taken this planet by force, you should at least remember the freedom of speech and of having your own opinion - which by the way, if it doesn't agree with yours, it does not make the other person "ignorant". |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Chuck wrote:
were attacked by pro-Israeli groups as anti-Semitic.
What - they use that cheap tactic!!?
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| tumbled |
I read an interesting article in the outlook section of the Washington Post last Sunday in which the interviewee mentioned a link between Iran's interest in having Hezbollah as a medium in its attempt to amass nuclear weapons and Israel's interest in neutralizing hezbollah to reduce the threat of Iran's influence. but I don't have the direct quote it is at home but I found that to be an interesting statement to research. I really think a neutral agency should tackle having weapons EN MASSE destroyed for the sake of world peace and to stop the stupidity and cost of violence. diane reahm was stating this morning on NPR that 2/3 of our army hardware is over in iraq which is a threat to our own national security... to to mention the cost which could be used in more productive ways like EDUCATION
[Edited by tumbled]
[Edited by tumbled] |
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| Nellcote |
Once I heard the leader of Hezbollah was on an Islamic Council, headquartered in Iran, I was convinced the Israelies are fighting the Iranians, not some rag tag bunch of extremists. This group has arms enough for a small country. Shame on the Lebanese Government for allowing this cancer to fester within the beautiful country of Lebanon as it has. All of the countries surrounding Iran & Syria need to have borders blocked so more arms shipments will get thru, squeezing off Hezbolloah. It is my hope that the world will buck up and realize that Hezbollah must not be allowed to continue with it's run of terror. Kofi Ding Dong and the other layabouts at the UN need to wake up!
[Edited by Nellcote] |
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| not bound to please |
Fotini - it's hopeless...if you disagree you are libeled.
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
FotiniD wrote:
Well, I knew it'd come to the whole "if you're not with us, you're against us" in the end. I don't support the war, so I'm ignorant, so I'm dangerous. Alright.
In this whole war for freedom that's taken this planet by force, you should at least remember the freedom of speech and of having your own opinion - which by the way, if it doesn't agree with yours, it does not make the other person "ignorant".
Good grief...where do you get a "if you're not with us you're against us" stance?...I simply disagree with you...and do indeed believe you're ignorant...you're dangerous in a Neville Chamberlain sort of way...read up about him and those who thought like him and see how many lives could have been spared...and then you won't be so ignorant
Yes...if you have no other reason for not supporting (or opposing it for that matter) this war because people will die that makes you very ignorant and very dangerous
You have not expressed an opinion...you've only expressed a peace at all cost platitude...and just because you may have an opinion does not mean it should be respected...if you can't acknowledge the potential error of an opinion...why should it be respected?
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Nellcote wrote:
Once I heard the leader of Hezbollah was on an Islamic Council, headquartered in Iran, I was convinced the Israelies are fighting the Iranians, not some rag tag bunch of extremists. This group has arms enough for a small country. Shame on the Lebanese Government for allowing this cancer to fester within the beautiful country of Lebanon as it has. All of the countries surrounding Iran & Syria need to have borders blocked so more arms shipments will get thru, squeezing off Hezbolloah. It is my hope that the world will buck up and realize that Hezbollah must not be allowed to continue with it's run of terror. Kofi Ding Dong and the other layabouts at the UN need to wake up!
[Edited by Nellcote]
There are very few people here that will acknowledge Iran's invovlement...it places them in a very awkward position...your point will be ignored |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Good grief...where do you get a "if you're not with us you're against us" stance?...I simply disagree with you...and do indeed believe you're ignorant...you're dangerous in a Neville Chamberlain sort of way...read up about him and those who thought like him and see how many lives could have been spared...and then you won't be so ignorant
Yes...if you have no other reason for not supporting (or opposing it for that matter) this war because people will die that makes you very ignorant and very dangerous
You have not expressed an opinion...you've only expressed a peace at all cost platitude...and just because you may have an opinion does not mean it should be respected...if you can't acknowledge the potential error of an opinion...why should it be respected?
[Edited by Fiji Joe]
Why should my opinion be respected? But simply because I respect YOUR opinion Fiji. Because it's one thing embracing an opinion and another thing respecting it? A very fundamental aspect of freedom and democracy. And since we're dropping names, I suggest Voltaire.
"Peace at all costs"? Doesn't it sound self-contradictory? If there's peace, then how does this hurt people?
Oh let it be. I agree with you not bound to please. But it's still sad. If we can't get along with each other, (and we don't even have any personal gain, money to earn etc.) how do we expect Israel and Lebanon to do that? |
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| Jumping Jack |
Why do American Jews overwhelmingly vote for Democrats that are antisemetic and more than willing to let Isreal be conquered? Why do they continue to take George Soros' money while he supports anti-semetic propoganda in Europe? I simply don't understand. |
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| Joey |
Nanky ?!
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
FotiniD wrote:
Why should my opinion be respected? But simply because I respect YOUR opinion Fiji. Because it's one thing embracing an opinion and another thing respecting it? A very fundamental aspect of freedom and democracy. And since we're dropping names, I suggest Voltaire.
"Peace at all costs"? Doesn't it sound self-contradictory? If there's peace, then how does this hurt people?
Oh let it be. I agree with you not bound to please. But it's still sad. If we can't get along with each other, (and we don't even have any personal gain, money to earn etc.) how do we expect Israel and Lebanon to do that?
It is sad...you start some post about stopping the war and refuse to acknowledge that in the end, stopping the war might actually be a bad thing and might actually cost many more lives in the future...I agree Fotini...sad
I think Israel and Lebanon will get along just fine, if Hezbollah is removed...if not...the next conflict will be far greater than this conflict...because you do realize that Hezbollah's stated goal is the eradication of jews from the planet?...and you do realize that it is human nature not to allow yourself to be eradicated if you can prevent it?...your post should have read "Stop Hezbollah Now"...but you chose not to post that...why? |
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| Some Guy |
I predict a top button to the right deletion soon. |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Some Guy wrote:
I predict a top button to the right deletion soon.
It would not be the first time I schooled someone into deletion |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
It is sad...you start some post about stopping the war and refuse to acknowledge that in the end, stopping the war might actually be a bad thing and might actually cost many more lives in the future...I agree Fotini...sad
I think Israel and Lebanon will get along just fine, if Hezbollah is removed...if not...the next conflict will be far greater than this conflict...because you do realize that Hezbollah's stated goal is the eradication of jews from the planet?...and you do realize that it is human nature not to allow yourself to be eradicated if you can prevent it?...your post should have read "Stop Hezbollah Now"...but you chose not to post that...why?
Fiji... Turn off CNN and try receiving your information from objective sources.
And while you're at it, try reading about what caused the creation of Hezbollah. It's a cause and effect thing and violence only breeds more violence. |
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| Some Guy |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
It would not be the first time I schooled someone into deletion
Fiji'd? |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
FotiniD wrote:
Fiji... Turn off CNN and try receiving your information from objective sources.
And while you're at it, try reading about what caused the creation of Hezbollah. It's a cause and effect thing and violence only breeds more violence.
What created Hezbollah?...Let's start with that |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
It would not be the first time I schooled someone into deletion
Surely that would make you happier Fiji?
Should I just delete my thoughts or opinions on this because you find them ignorant?
It's not a wonder this world is what it is today with such lack of tolerance and fear of other people's viewpoints. |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
What created Hezbollah?...Let's start with that
Another attack from Israel to Lebanon some years ago.
And to be more accurate, the attempt to get rid of the Israeli occupation in the early eighties.
It's wiser to study history from objective sources - not from CNN or American neocon ones - and then you might be less prejudiced.
[Edited by FotiniD] |
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| Some Guy |
I fear a deletion. |
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| Your Cousin Lou |
quote:
Chuck wrote:
That’s why the militarily insignificant guerrilla operations of Hamas and Hizballah in the Southern and Northern borders of Israel have a huge political significance, since they threaten to smash the myth of the invincibility of the Israel Defense Forces, the main prop (short of direct military intervention) of imperialism in the region. Hence the bestiality of the Israeli reaction to Hizballah’s act of solidarity with the Palestinians,which took place against the background of a Zionist killing spree in the Gaza strip and the West Bank that left more than 100 Palestinians dead and goes on unabated while the headlines are being occupied by the events in the North.
My God! They are fucking the animals now???? |
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| jb |
CNN is hardly pro-Israel...........
Where is the outrage at Muslims killing Muslims in the tens of thousands every years..the silence is deafening.
[Edited by jb] |
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| Your Cousin Lou |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
To support Hezbollah one does not need to be Muslim. A Lebenese is an Arab foremost, then either Muslim or Christian. And to a general Arab, every orginisation that fights Israel and US will be supported.
Mathijs
Where do you get your misinformation? Lebanonese people are multiethnic, not just "Arab." They possess Phoenicican, Aramaic/Syriac, Greek, Roman, European and Arabic elements. This has to be the most ignorant statement I have read this week, and it's only Thursday... |
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