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| not bound to please |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
More assumed and perplexed. Truly.
I meant amused... |
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| Nasty Habits |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
I find it VERY sexy.
Do tell.
quote:
Do you think some fans have made the band members into little dolls? Metaphorically of course. Psychologically as well.
Shit, goat. They've been made literally into puppets. I mean haven't you downloaded any of those videos with the Mick and Keef dolls? Boy, now you'll LOVE those.
I don't know about this one. I mean, if someone thought that they were pulling Keef's strings or could make Mick do what they wanted to then they're doing a pretty crappy job. If you mean little snuggle toys that provide comfort in a cold an harsh world, well, shit. We all need someone we can lean on.
quote:
You know - I made a comment last week about finding it interesting that the people posting on soap opera fan messageboards seemed to have a stronger grasp of reality, whatever that is and for what it's worth. They seem to understand the structure of creation far better than what I read on here. And they do bitch about this or that writer wrecking their favorite characters, writing shitty storylines, etc, but then they stop watching or watch another show.
You're obviously deliberately generalizing and I don't really need to point that out to you. But I now what you mean. The basic mechanics of playing/singing/ writing/rehearsal get ignored a lot, but I find that that's the case with just about anything. Something that I might find interesting but don't know a lot about is basically voodoo to me. Maybe music, writing and etc. are the same for whomever it is you might be referring to.
I think there's always been the obsessed crazies. I mean, look at Nashville. That movie defined the whole problem in 1975. The internet just provides a means for them to come together and codepend.
You and I have discussed the message board phenomenon at length elsewhere. It creates an entire separate reality as an adjunct to your life, and I think people thrive on that as much as they do the topic at hand, in this case the Stones. The Stones, as Mick says, are just an excuse. But since you can't help but breathe the air in here if you hang out, certain attitudes (mysterious aversion for the "hot rocks" being an early symptom of assimilation) are adopted.
quote:
Perhaps they are they're own worse enemies. Perhaps that level of worship makes their object of desire lazy? Think of this in context of the dead art article I posted.
From what I've read on the message boards the fans at least in words have a pretty good idea of what to do for the Stones to make a better Stones album. You yourself have noticed that they're not satisfied. To me 4 decades of direct corporate ass licking has probably been far more detrimental to artistic drive than any amount of someone urging you to be your best, and the realization that the money was in the stadiums rather than on the plastic/ aluminum has surely hampered the Stones.
Of course, the same fans can't help but buy up everything that they put out and THEN bitch about it. Actually exercising the will it takes to STAY AWAY from Rolling Stones shows is difficult to muster. The pull. The tingle. All that stuff. That's just in the guts. Hard to resist learned urges, believe you me.
Time ultimately, will tell whether the Stones are ever going to release something that's worth their legacy or their while or our while or whatever. And whilst it's easy to lay back and say "I told you so" I always tend to put my money where my mouth is. So, as of this moment, I am personally going offer each and every member of the Rolling Stones (all four of yer) $250 apiece if you will title your next album Shit or Get Off the Pot.
[Edited by Nasty Habits] |
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| Joey |
    
  
  
  
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| Nasty Habits |
quote:
crocodile dandee wrote and Joey plagiarized and stole emoticons:
" I contend that Joey and Josh are far more creative than the Stones at this point. "
" And I'm damn serious. "
" This place at it's best is a mix of an exquisite corpse, experimental narrative, Mexican soap opera, performance art, and psych ward all rolled into one. "
" Much better than anything the Stones have done lately. "
" Plus, my Achilles heal is still fucked up. "
...........................................................
Bercee !
[Edited by Joey]
fair enough, but have you heard Joey sing?
Ugh!
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| Joey |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
fair enough, but have you heard Joey sing?
Ugh!
Have you seen Joey Masturbate ?
I see a man without a problem .......................
I see a country always starved .......................
D. J. Bercee Smercee Jerc
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Joey wrote:
Have you seen Joey Masturbate ?
Every day!
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| Joey |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
Every day!
You make Joey sniggle |
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| Bloozehound |
Rumifer I'm catching a whiff that you're doing exactly what you accuse others here of doing, being stuck in the glory days, you're stuck in '72 wanting them to keep rehashing Exile over and over and over again, but it ain't gonna happen chief.
The revolutions over, they're not all piss n vinegar anymore, they've matured. I too have faith in them, and think the quality of the next album will say ALOT about the future of this band.
Sometimes I catch myself saying they only release albums nowdays to hype the tours, but then I remember what professionals and perfectionists these guys are as musicians. VL & B2B aren't that horrible of albums, they do get better with time like fine cheese or wine.
Stone by the numbers, generic, formula Stones ? See Steel Wheels.
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| not bound to please |
[quote]Nasty Habits wrote:
Do tell.
[quote]
Inter species romance and foot fetishes. Henses my current ills.
[quote]Shit, goat. They've been made literally into puppets. I mean haven't you downloaded any of those videos with the Mick and Keef dolls? Boy, now you'll LOVE those. [quote]
I know nothing of this. Do tell...
links?
[quote]I don't know about this one. I mean, if someone thought that they were pulling Keef's strings or could make Mick do what they wanted to then they're doing a pretty crappy job. If you mean little snuggle toys that provide comfort in a cold an harsh world, well, shit. We all need someone we can lean on. [quote]
I guess I really must wonder - why THEM?
What is it about Gimme Shelter or Ventilator Blues that translates into - superblow pics and Shidoobee gatherings?
[quote] Maybe music, writing and etc. are the same for whomever it is you might be referring to. [quote]
I guess I'm trying to dig around to see what the presumptions are about the creative process - as if there was a general standard. When the idiot monkey woman said they needed to get into "creative mode". I want to know what the hell someone like her MEANS by that.
[quote]I think there's always been the obsessed crazies. I mean, look at Nashville. That movie defined the whole problem in 1975. The internet just provides a means for them to come together and codepend.
[quote]
I think you have it nailed. It's like a petri dish...
[quote] To me 4 decades of direct corporate ass licking has probably been far more detrimental to artistic drive than any amount of someone urging you to be your best, and the realization that the money was in the stadiums rather than on the plastic/ aluminum has surely hampered the Stones. [quote]
I don't know. I like the alien abduction theory better. I mean - Stan Brakhage was making films on his deathbed. He was still honestly WORKING and TRYING and still being an artist. But then - he had to teach to pay the bills. These guys are lazy. There is a reason non fanatics are contemptuous. Unfortunately - when they do something good - ala Bridges, the critics are on auto pilot.
[quote]Of course, the same fans can't help but buy up everything that they put out and THEN bitch about it. [quote]
If they do. I swear I've read plenty of salivating over their flatulent "product".
[quote]Actually exercising the will it takes to STAY AWAY from Rolling Stones shows is difficult to muster. The pull. The tingle. All that stuff. That's just in the guts. Hard to resist learned urges, believe you me. [quote]
I know. I swore I wouldn't see them next tour - so what did I do - go to three shows. No more though. Part of it was an enmeshed bad relationship thing. But - the best time I had was in Philly, front row, after I got away from him. I've seen them front row twice, front back row once, and from the euro trash who-do-you-know side seats a couple times. That's more than enough.
[quote]Time ultimately, will tell whether the Stones are ever going to release something that's worth their legacy or their while or our while or whatever. [quote]
Damn - you're an optimist!
[quote]And whilst it's easy to lay back and say "I told you so" I always tend to put my money where my mouth is. So, as of this moment, I am personally going offer each and every member of the Rolling Stones (all four of yer) $250 apiece if you will title your next album Shit or Get Off the Pot.[quote]
That would be a fabulous title! I wish they had the balls to do it. To do it, and DO IT.
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Bloozehound wrote:
Rumifer I'm catching a whiff that you're doing exactly what you accuse others here of doing,
No, I said I liked Bridges a lot. I would prefer they would release an album of them passing gas into a microphone than the tripe they've put out lately. It's a matter of aesthetics. For now - I will continue to contend that Joey and Josh are superior artists.
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| Bloozehound |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
No, I said I liked Bridges a lot. I would prefer they would release an album of them passing gas into a microphone than the tripe they've put out lately. It's a matter of aesthetics. For now - I will continue to contend that Joey and Josh are superior artists.
I had a gas listening to Bridges earlier today. Now it's the Kinks - Muswell Hillbillies. |
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| throbby |
Since this is a "show us yer faces" thread I thought I'd oblige.
This I offer to a bitter failed artist, now kindly "instructing" us in the "art" of criticism.
Love and Kisses |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
throbby wrote:
This I offer to a bitter failed artist, now kindly "instructing" us in the "art" of criticism.
Sorry to disappoint - but you're wrong.
Why are you so angry?
What are your views on the issues?
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| TomL |
Thanks VD for the light-ing ment of the 5/20 pic. Them C-10's is fucking crazy. We had a blast and SS is one good dude. Good friends, good music. |
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| Gazza |
Bloozehound wrote>I think (hope) their lowest creative period came during the mid - late 80's, which also happened to coincide with the feud.
Their lowest creative period? They're in it right now. Four songs in seven years. None of which, lets face it, is anywhere near what they'll be remembered for.
They might not have been creating their most impressive work in the period youre speaking of, but at least they were creating.
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| luxury1 |
Well said Gazza. I agree. They seem to be putting so much time and energy into the "touring machine," that writing has been put on the back burner. Or is it that Mick and Keith have gone is such separately disparate directions, that they dont "feel like" trying to write together. The money is in the touring, and we all have bills to pay. I dont think either one of them wants to be "bothered" with the writing process as a team effort. I am hopeful, however, that this will change. |
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| Gazza |
So am I. I do think the next album will be a good one.
Not that it'll be raved about as the new "Exile" etc by the press or anything or by a lot of hardcore fans who will get their hopes up TOO high and end up dissecting it far too much for them to possibly enjoy it, but I still think they have some good creativity in them. Each of the last three albums was an improvement on the one before. No reason why they can't keep that going |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
but I still think they have some good creativity in them.
But of what sort? The kind that wrote Gimme Shelter? Or more like society portrait painter kind of creativity. Or interior design.
Back to the stoned vs drunk art article - perhaps if Keith and Ron quit drinking, and Mick started...
Happy birthday Gazza, and many more!
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| Nasty Habits |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
Back to the stoned vs drunk art article - perhaps if Keith and Ron quit drinking, and Mick started...
I'll drink to that!
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| Gazza |
>But of what sort? The kind that wrote Gimme Shelter?
I'd seriously doubt it. You happened to single out the song that I think is the greatest thing they ever did.
>Or more like society portrait painter kind of creativity. Or interior design.
More like interior design, in that if its in any way great, it won't be that visible or recognised by the wider public as such anyway.
>Back to the stoned vs drunk art article - perhaps if Keith and Ron quit drinking, and Mick started...
Happy birthday Gazza, and many more!
cheers. |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
I'll drink to that!
I am right now! blood red wine...
So - were you serious about the puppet shows? I have to know!
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
>But of what sort? The kind that wrote Gimme Shelter?
I'd seriously doubt it. You happened to single out the song that I think is the greatest thing they ever did.
>Or more like society portrait painter kind of creativity. Or interior design.
More like interior design, in that if its in any way great, it won't be that visible or recognised by the wider public as such anyway.
>Back to the stoned vs drunk art article - perhaps if Keith and Ron quit drinking, and Mick started...
Happy birthday Gazza, and many more!
cheers.
Cheers!
I see a series on Bravo in their future..
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| throbby |
not bound to please wrote:
"Why are you so angry?"
Well, what actually triggered my anger was the phrase "idiot monkey woman" in one of the above posts. While I don't know Monkey Woman personally I've never seen her post anything negative about anyone. She may not be your cup of tea, but wouldn't it be better to keep certain thoughts to yourself? Words so easily written can still cut. You know NBTP, you have much to offer RO if you could just live and let live.
"What are your views on the issues?"
My view is that it's much easier to critique than to create.
Not being an artist myself I have a real hard time saying publicly what I think about the current state of the Stones. I don't know what it's like to walk in their shoes.
I read a Clapton interview recently and he was speaking about the pressure he was getting from his record company during the mid eighties. They wanted him to release something more commercial, something more appealing to a broader fan base. In his words, "I felt like I was selling out". Which he ended up doing when he saw the record company writing on the wall. He explained his thought process with these words, "I can either end up playing clubs or take the commercial challenge and turn it into a journey and make it work and still retain my identity." I think to some degree the Stones may have come to the same realization.
The bottom line is all that matters these days, isn't it? "Money talks, bullshit walks" as we so often hear. This is true from the corporate level all the way down to our personal checkbooks. More money, much better.
Have they sold out? Hell yes. But then again haven't we all?
Do I like it when I read the setlist after the first show of a new tour and see a base core of songs that haven't changed since '72? Hell no. But then again maybe 5% of those at a show walk away turned on for the first time by the Stones and are on a mission to hear everything the Stones have ever recorded. This leads them down so many roads, Blues, Soul, R&B, Reggae, Gospel, Country, etc. This is definitely a good thing, is it not? Like Keith is always saying he'd like to have written on his tombstone, "He Passed It On".
Like the boys say, "It's Only Rock and Roll", not Rodin or Renoir.
[Edited by throbby] |
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| not bound to please |
[quote]throbby wrote:
not bound to please wrote:
"Why are you so angry?"
Well, what actually triggered my anger was the phrase "idiot monkey woman" in one of the above posts. While I don't know Monkey Woman personally I've never seen her post anything negative about anyone. [quote]
She flamed me when I asked her what "creative mode" was. Then never answered.
[quote]"What are your views on the issues?"
My view is that it's much easier to critique than to create. [quote]
I agree. Does that mean that nothing should be examined?
[quote]Not being an artist myself I have a real hard time saying publicly what I think about the current state of the Stones. I don't know what it's like to walk in their shoes. [quote]
No one does. That's why I was questioning the presumptuousness I see here.
[quote]I read a Clapton interview recently and he was speaking about the pressure he was getting from his record company during the mid eighties. They wanted him to release something more commercial, something more appealing to a broader fan base. In his words, "I felt like I was selling out". Which he ended up doing when he saw the record company writing on the wall. He explained his thought process with these words, "I can either end up playing clubs or take the commercial challenge and turn it into a journey and make it work and still retain my identity." I think to some degree the Stones may have come to the same realization. [quote]
I think they can do whatever they want. And they do. That they choose to do what they are doing leads to certain conclusions. What Clapton said is a complete cop out and excuse for his own perceived failings. He has the money and reputation to be able to do whatever he wants. So does Dylan for example. I think both have made very different choices making their work - art vs craft/product.
[quote]The bottom line is all that matters these days, isn't it? "Money talks, bullshit walks" as we so often hear. This is true from the corporate level all the way down to our personal checkbooks. More money, much better. [quote]
If that is what they want. And it seems they do. So why expect anything out of anyone with that attitude? Besides lowest common denominator product attempting to please a large demographic. What's the difference between that and whitening toothpaste or an SUV with a dvd player?
[quote]Have they sold out? Hell yes. But then again haven't we all?[quote]
Not sure what you mean. Personally in our own lives? I don't think I have. Not that I haven't "sold out" in some way and to some degree at certain points in my life. But not now. You can learn from compromising too far, and why it's a mistake and best to avoid if you choose to live a certain way.
Do you mean sold out by standing by musicians who have sold out and not creating work that you enjoy? I think this is the crux of the fanatic issue being discussed. I haven't stood by. If it's not any good, or what I think is good, or to my taste, it doesn't have my interest. I'm playing around at RO for many reasons. Getting info on the Rolling Stones is not one of them. If they happen to put out a really good record and I hear something I like on the radio - then I'll probably get around to buying it. Before buying Bridges, the last one I bought was Undercover, which I barely remember. Between those points I saw nothing to keep me interested.
[quote]Do I like it when I read the setlist after the first show of a new tour and see a base core of songs that haven't changed since '72? Hell no. But then again maybe 5% of those at a show walk away turned on for the first time by the Stones and are on a mission to hear everything the Stones have ever recorded. This leads them down so many roads, Blues, Soul, R&B, Reggae, Gospel, Country, etc. This is definitely a good thing, is it not? Like Keith is always saying he'd like to have written on his tombstone, "He Passed It On".[quote]
I agree. I think that may be their role now.
[quote]Like the boys say, "It's Only Rock and Roll", not Rodin or Renoir.[quote]
I disagree. At least at one time they were more than only a genre.
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| Nasty Habits |
Mick, Keith (and Bowie) ventriloquism:
http://www.artbabyart.com/carla_rhodes/
Make sure to click through to the website, too!
Gotta go along with the Throbby take on the Monkey Woman thing myself, B2P. I've seen you antagonize people needlessly in the past and this struck me as an arbitrary choice at best. If MW flamed you it may have been because your past antics precede you. Like SS said about JB and Joey, aren't you after a certain amount of that sort of thing if you post outside your normal perameters? Anyway, I've found Monkey Woman to be a friendly and sweet member of the Rocks Off community and not the usual redneck or borderline loony bleeding fish in the water personalities you usually tease. Keep it up with bloozehound, though. I think it gets him hot.
I do disagree with Throbby on a few key issues -- criticism is an essential part of a creative product getting issued to the public. If someone's observations have come from genuine confrontation with the material placed before them and are expressed with wit, they can make for pretty interesting reading, and can certainly illuminate a number of issues - maybe even some not directly pertaining to the subject at hand. To a certain extent it's the Stones own image making that's led to many fans feeling let down by their current attitudes. There was one time when they gave the impression that there were more important things in life than money (although money was always important to the Stones and that's an important lesson the Stones can teach), but at this point they've convinced a sizeable portion of even their own audience that money is all they care about, to the point that even if they DO care about something besides it, it's hard not to see the calculating profiteer behind even genuine motivations. This ultimately obscures even the message of endless dance party that was rightly the theme of the 40 Licks Tour -- how can you dance when you have to absorb your everything coming to you that you paid two dollars a minute or whatever to see?
The bottom line is they don't need any more money. I don't care what anyone says. They DON'T NEED ANY MORE MONEY. So if you're doing something to get something you don't need any more of, then why are you doing it? Just because you want it. I call that getting what you want but not getting what you need.
Mick Jagger is a man with a tremendous ego, but he's also one of the least respected "elder statesmen" of rock and roll on the planet. His "cred" has fallen BADLY in the last decade, while Keef's has risen past his contributions and current ability to perform. Even when Mick is carrying the shows, it's Keith who is considered wise and soulful, whilst Mick is just a cold adding machine. One would think that Mick would realise that the best way to regain some of his tarnished rep (which I would think, considering what I've observed about Mick, he would want to do, but I don't know, I could be wrong, or projecting) would be to put out a genuinely involved, exciting, nasty, direct connecting Rolling Stones album. Again, not in the "style" of Exile but in the level of commitment and investment of self. I'm not here to bitch, I'm just here to help!
[quote
Like the boys say, "It's Only Rock and Roll", not Rodin or Renoir.
[/quote]
I will accept this argument on the day when someone can tell me why it is, exactly, that Let It Bleed somehow is a lesser piece of artistic expression than a Renoir painting. So far, no one who's ever presented this argument has ever persuaded me. You're welcome to try, Throbby - I look forward to hearing it, and am willing to be persuaded, because all critiques are are persuasive writing. Critiques are not canonical, and should never be considered the final word, not even by the critic. But then again, in this day and age, what is canonical?
Everybody's heard about the bird!
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| glencar |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
"Speaking of which, I've been listening to VL alot lately and I'm convinced it is a minor masterpiece of later day work."
Oh no! Were you around when the great VL vs B2B debates raged? VL is nothing but stones by numbers. Phoned in cliches. Stuff that dudes with Van Halen avatars would like. Stuff that people who "rock out" to Start Me Up would like. The worst kind of pandering swill.
Tell us all about the great debates, Dandy. Those were the days! |
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| Joey |
Whatever happened to Stormy anyway ??????? |
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| glencar |
Dead. |
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| Bloozehound |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
Keep it up with bloozehound, though. I think it gets him hot.
lol!
whatcha ya talkin' bout willis ?
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| Nasty Habits |
You just have a way with the ladies!
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