>Obama made the choice to affiliate with this guy for 20 years. He was apparently involved with the Obama campaign as a "spiritual advisor" of some sort. I find it difficult to believe that Wright was not spewing this crap all along, and if it comes out that he was spewing it all along, Obama has painted his narrow little ass into a corner.<
I've said all along that Obama was just a side show. They knew all this for a long time. They could have dug it up long ago. Hillary will be the nominee. I think Jesse Ventura should run with Ron Paul as his running mate. I'd like to see some real debate.
[/quote]
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
15th March 2008 11:22 AM
Fiji Joe
quote:nankerphelge wrote:
Now Obama condemns Wright.
Says that he doesn't recall Wright saying those things when Obama was in church.
Right....
And the Obama campaign cannot figure out whether Wright was or was not part of the campaign.
From MSNBC:
Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., condemned racially charged sermons by his former pastor Friday and urged Americans not to reject his presidential campaign because of “guilt by association.”
Obama’s campaign announced that the minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., had left its spiritual advisory committee after videotapes of his sermons again ignited fierce debate in news accounts and political blogs.
Obama did not clarify whether Wright volunteered to leave his African American Religious Leadership Committee, a loose group of supporters associated with the campaign, or whether the campaign asked him to leave.
From Fox:
Barack Obama describes longtime pastor Jeremiah Wright Jr. as “like an uncle” and a spiritual mentor, but the presidential candidate rejected Wright’s fiery anti-U.S. and politically divisive sermons after days of mounting pressure to do so.
Obama told FOX News Friday that he could no longer lay low as Wright’s past sermons, where he condemned the United States as institutionally racist and blamed the government for HIV and the Sept. 11 attacks, were played in heavy rotation on national television.
“Once I saw them I had to be very clear about the fact that these are not statements that I am comfortable with,” Obama said. “I reject them completely — they are not ones that reflect my values or my ideals or Michelle’s.”
Obama called his remarks “inflammatory and appalling” in a written statement Friday.
Though Obama has known Wright for 20 years, he said the pastor has never been active in his campaign and that he is no longer on his African American Religious Leadership Committee.
-------------
Obama made the choice to affiliate with this guy for 20 years. He was apparently involved with the Obama campaign as a "spiritual advisor" of some sort. I find it difficult to believe that Wright was not spewing this crap all along, and if it comes out that he was spewing it all along, Obama has painted his narrow little ass into a corner.
Nank...there is audio tape of him spewing this shit from at least as far back as 2001...and that aside, he's been teaching this Black Liberation Theology for many many years...which regardless of whether or not they're using the "n" word or cursing America, has some major problems of its own...read up on that stuff...this stuff could just as easily be coming from the mouths of the mullahs in Afghanistan
15th March 2008 11:34 AM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:Fiji Joe wrote:
...this stuff could just as easily be coming from the mouths of the mullahs in Afghanistan
Or the Apaches in Arizona.
Or the Sioux in South Dakota.
Or Smedley D. Butler years ago.
The problem is the POLICY not the people.
15th March 2008 11:41 AM
Fiji Joe
quote:Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Or the Apaches in Arizona.
Or the Sioux in South Dakota.
Or Smedley D. Butler years ago.
The problem is the POLICY not the people.
No...after this post of yours, I'm pretty sure it's the people
15th March 2008 12:01 PM
sirmoonie
All the signs were there: Cabrini, Trinity, slam dunking, attending Spike Lee movies. And yet people laughed when I said El Rukn.
Why am I always right? Where did this god-given clairvoyance come from? From god? Shades of the Amazing Creskin.
This should have been dugged up earlier. Would have saved a few fainting spells. And hope crushed like a pineapple.
Now, if you'll excuse me, my son and I are going to go urinate in the Pacific Ocean. We are both circumsized for maximum velocity piss.
15th March 2008 12:12 PM
the good
I am not a religious man, but I am starting to think there are forces at work in the universe that seek to secure McCain's election to the presidency. He comes back from oblivion to secure the republican nomination, despite all the polls, despite having no money, despite holding positions that enrage the base of his party, and despite the rantings of right wing radio. Now, in a climate that should favor the democratic nominee, the democrats are in the process of destroying themselves. These revelations about Obama's pastor come at the absolute worst time for the democrats. Its probably too late for Hillary to catch Obama in terms of delegate count or popular vote. But now that Obama is damaged goods, there is a real case to be made to the super delegates for taking the nomination away from him. The first black man to have a real shot at the presidency. The resulting struggle for the nomination will be an epic battle that will destroy the democratic party. When the smoke clears, we will be left with a wounded Hillary Clinton and the great senator from Arizona. The candidate of destiny. The last lion. John McCain.
15th March 2008 12:12 PM
Starbuck
quote:Look, I took a course in Civil Rights in America so I think I know what black people have been through.
tee2hee indeed! i took many courses on the second world war...does this mean i know what it felt like to be racing toward omaha in a higgins boat at h hour on dday? hardly. similarly, none of us whities know what it's like to be a brutha....
i am now retiring from this thread and will hereafter only post giggles and nude pictures of john and yoko. be forewarned.
15th March 2008 12:32 PM
Sioux
All this truly disturbs me. Especially the UN-AMERICAN rhetoric! This guy wants to be President....but you KNOW he has to have heard all the American bashing from his dear Pastor. This guy really scares me now. I have no idea who or what he is.
Denouncing what his Pastor said? Too little, MUCH too late, I say.
15th March 2008 01:28 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:Sioux wrote:
All this truly disturbs me. Especially the UN-AMERICAN rhetoric! This guy wants to be President....but you KNOW he has to have heard all the American bashing from his dear Pastor. This guy really scares me now. I have no idea who or what he is.
Denouncing what his Pastor said? Too little, MUCH too late, I say.
It's interesting that the Hopeniks try to characterize this as a "guilt by association" attack on Obama...well..there was an association...that is true...20 years worth..a master/mentor relationship...Obama's words....not the far right wing conspiracy...but the guilt by association BS falls short for one very obvious reason...which is that Black Liberation Theology and its message and the message of the people who pimp it is Obama's religion...How do we know this?...Because he went to this church for 20 years...he hailed the Rev. Wright as his mentor and one of the inspirations for his whole world outlook...he just didn't bother throwing in all the "whitey is the devil" rhetoric...that wouldn't be so good for book sales...people can believe that he didn't know what this guy was about...yes they can...they can even believe that him and his never been proud of America wife weren't spewing this hate behind closed doors...people can do that...and a lot of people will...many will for no other reason than they don't want to admit they backed a closet racist...or at best, they backed a man who has exhibited extremely poor judgment (for 20 years) and who is completely lacking in principle and that his message of "one America" was complete and utter bullshit designed to tap into the very depths of white guilt for political advantage...few people are willing to admit that they are/were duped and were willing to decide America's future with a decision based entirely on guilt and emotion and completely void of logic...the vessel of white guilt is sinking...as it should
You can hide 'neath your covers
And study your pain
Make crosses from your lovers
Throw roses in the rain
Waste your summer praying in vain
For a saviour to rise from these streets
[Edited by Fiji Joe]
15th March 2008 01:35 PM
Ten Thousand Motels
UN-American?
Bush's policy is unamerican.
Torture? spying? That's all "unAmerican"
WTF is "American"?
Consumer spending?
15th March 2008 01:38 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
UN-American?
Bush's policy is unamerican.
Torture? spying? That's all "unAmerican"
WTF is "American"?
Consumer spending?
Dude...you don't even live in America
15th March 2008 01:46 PM
the good
quote:Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
UN-American?
Bush's policy is unamerican.
Torture? spying? That's all "unAmerican"
WTF is "American"?
Consumer spending?
Most of what you raised comes down to opinion about what it means to be an American and what this country stands for. But any one who says the united states invented aids to kill minorities clearly hates this country.
15th March 2008 01:47 PM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:Fiji Joe wrote:
Dude...you don't even live in America
I can think of alot of other places I'd rather be right now. God used to Bless America.
But the T Bills are coming due and the all "loans" are being called in. The Piper demands payment. We're bankrupt.
15th March 2008 01:50 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:the good wrote:
Most of what you raised comes down to opinion about what it means to be an American and what this country stands for. But any one who says the united states invented aids to kill minorities clearly hates this country.
And anyone who claims the man who said that as his mentor should not be leading this country...not even something that can be seriously debated...although I guarantee you there will be people debating it...right here in this thread
"Are some voters not going to vote for me because I’m African-American? Those are the same voters who probably wouldn’t vote for me because of my politics.”
Barack Obama - 2006
Shades of Rev. Wright
15th March 2008 01:52 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
I can think of alot of other places I'd rather be right now. God used to Bless America.
But the T Bills are coming due and the all "loans" are being called in. The Piper demands payment. We're bankrupt.
That is one of the very great things about this nation...you can leave whenever you want...bye
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/15/AR2008031501004.html
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
Op eds...that's all you got?
[Edited by Fiji Joe]
15th March 2008 02:20 PM
Ten Thousand Motels
US ordered to aid in Guantanamo captive's defense
Jane Sutton
Reuters North American News Service
Mar 14, 2008 19:34 EST
GUANTANAMO BAY U.S. NAVAL BASE, Cuba (Reuters) - Military lawyers defending a Canadian prisoner at Guantanamo can see notes from his interrogations and question an officer who implicated him in a U.S. soldier's death in Afghanistan, a war court judge ordered in rulings released Friday.
Toronto-born prisoner Omar Khadr, now 21, was captured in a firefight at a suspected al Qaeda compound in Afghanistan at age 15. He was scheduled to go to trial in May on charges of murdering a U.S. soldier with a grenade during the battle, the first Guantanamo case to proceed to full trial.
The date was postponed indefinitely to allow military defense lawyers time to review the additional evidence they had accused prosecutors of withholding.
The judge, Army. Col. Peter Brownback, said Khadr's military lawyers can interview the U.S. military officer in charge of the July 2002 operation that led to Khadr's capture near the Afghan city of Khost. The officer wrote in an initial battle report that the grenade thrower had been killed, then revised it two months later to implicate Khadr, who was shot and wounded.
The judge ruled that taking and preserving that officer's testimony was "in the interests of justice."
He also ordered military prosecutors to give defense lawyers a list of all Khadr's interrogators and make them available for phone interviews, and to provide original notes made by them and other government agents who questioned Khadr.
Brownback's rulings were distributed Friday after hearings for three captives charged in the special war court created by the Bush administration to try suspected terrorists at the remote U.S. naval base in southeastern Cuba, outside the regular civilian and military courts.
Brownback also ruled that Khadr's lawyers could examine all records from the government's investigation into allegations made by a former Guantanamo chief prosecutor, who resigned last year citing political interference in the cases.
Khadr's Pentagon-appointed defense lawyer, Navy Lt. Cmdr. William Kuebler, had argued he needed to review the evidence before trial in order to prepare an effective defense. Prosecutors had argued that much of the information interrogators got from Khadr was unrelated to the charges against him and the defense didn't need it.
The U.S. military began sending prisoners to Guantanamo in 2002 and plans to try about 80 of the 276 who remain. Charges are pending against 13 and only one case has been resolved, that of an Australian former prisoner who avoided trial by pleading guilty to providing material support for terrorism and finished his nine-month sentence in his homeland.
Most of the delays have been due to challenges by military defense lawyers, who contend the Guantanamo court system is fundamentally unfair and rigged to produce convictions. They are the first U.S. war tribunals since World War Two.
Khadr is charged with murdering U.S. Army Sgt. 1st Class Christopher Speer, a special forces medic who entered the compound after an aerial bombing and was hit by a grenade that also injured other U.S. soldiers. He is also charged with attempted murder, providing material support for terrorism and conspiring with al Qaeda, and could face life in prison. (Editing by Tom Brown and Doina Chiacu)
Source: Reuters North American News Service
15th March 2008 02:24 PM
Ten Thousand Motels
>Most of the delays have been due to challenges by military defense lawyers, who contend the Guantanamo court system is fundamentally unfair and rigged to produce convictions. They are the first U.S. war tribunals since World War Two.<
Kangaroo Courts?
Another American Value?
15th March 2008 02:29 PM
Ten Thousand Motels
It's The 'Oh Shit!'
Moment On Iran
By Dave Lindorff
3-15-8
(This Can't Be Happening) -- Every horror movie has that "Oh Shit!" moment, when the hero or heroes are huddled in some creepy hideout, and suddenly something happens that tells you that the monster is just around the corner, or just about to attack. In "Jurassic Park" it was the pulsing ripples in a cup of water, heralding the arrival of a T-Rex. In "Jaws" it was the deep base music, letting you know that a monstrous shark was about to attack.
Well, we just got our "Oh Shit!" moment with the just-announced resignation of Admiral William J. Fallon, the military commander of US Middle East operations.
Adm. Fallon, 63, famously said that an attack on Iran would not happen "on my watch," and is widely believed to have already threatened, along with a number of other top generals and admirals, to quit the service if the Bush administration were to launch an air attack on Iran.
Put the pieces together. We know that the vice president is obsessed with a desire to attack Iran, and has been since before he even took office. Bush has repeatedly stressed that Iran cannot be permitted to continue with its nuclear processing (he calls it their "nukular" bomb program, though there is no evidence that the country has a nuclear bomb development program, and in fact the last National Intelligence Estimate on Iran said there was not and hadn't been since 2003). And Fallon has now quit.
The Eisenhower nuclear aircraft carrier strike force has departed for stationing off Iran, joining forces already in place there, and loaded to the brim with strike aircraft, Tomahawk missiles, and even nuclear weapons. It was long ago reported that stealth bombers had been put in place in come of the countries of the old Soviet Union north of Iran, as well as on the island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean.
All the elements, that is to say, are in place for a massive air assault on Iranian targets, designed to destroy its nuclear program, cripple its military command and control, and--at least this is a stated Cheney goal--to lead to the overthrow of the Iranian government by its own people.
It is, of course, the strategy of madmen.
The US has no forces to send into Iran. All they can do is bomb it. And bombing a country doesn't lead its people to rise up. It leads them to rally 'round the flag. Especially when the civilian casualties of our not-so-"smart" bombs start to soar.
If such an attack were to happen, we can kiss goodbye to six years of domestic peace, such as we've had. The Iranians have considerable capability to inflict damage on US targets of interest, both overseas and here in the domestic US using assymetrical warfare techniques. The worse part is, they'd be completely justified in doing so, since any attack on them would be a crime against peace--the gravest of all international crimes.
American troops already mired and pinned down in a war in Iraq, would find themselves suddenly under attack by Shia forces there, who for several years now have been largely leaving them alone.
And oil, which just bumped up against $110 a barrel, an all-time record, will double in price overnight, as the whole Persian Gulf becomes a war zone.
We can expect massive launches of small boats armed with missiles and torpedoes, as well as sophisticated anti-ship missiles from shore batteries, all fired at US ships in the Gulf, and it would be astounding if some or even many vessels of the US fleet weren't sunk.
Meanwhile, tanker traffic in the Gulf, which accounts for 20% or more of the world's oil, will cease as insurance rates for those vessels goes through the roof.
The monster of war will be unleashed, and will not easily be defeated. That's why Adm. Fallon was so opposed to the whole idea. He knows that it will be a disaster for the US militarily, economically and politically.
The worst part is that Cheney knows this, too. He just doesn't care. This is the man's parting shot as he leaves office--to put the country into the throes of a war so vicious that no one will think of pursuing him for his long list of crimes against the nation and the Constitution.
He is guessing--and he may be right--that the American public will, sheep-like as always, rally to the cause, with a new round of yellow magnet "ribbons" on their cars. He is hoping--and he may be right-- that war will be a boon for the candidacy of Republican John McCain and for embattled Republicans running for Congress.
It's a kind of political Hail Mary.
Oh Shit! Here it comes...
15th March 2008 02:30 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
>Most of the delays have been due to challenges by military defense lawyers, who contend the Guantanamo court system is fundamentally unfair and rigged to produce convictions. They are the first U.S. war tribunals since World War Two.<
Kangaroo Courts?
Another American Value?
That's the fundamental difference between you and those who don't feel the need to degrade their own country...You see America as its government, instead of the people who inhabit it and with whom (and I'm assuming you actually leave the house) you interact on a daily basis...it's easy for you to piss on some amorphous entity and call it America...not so easy for you to come out and say you're pissing on the people who are America...this is why you can't define for yourself what is "American"...because you place your own personal petty gripes above and beyond everything else..it's a distinction you should be making...but I bet you never will
15th March 2008 02:52 PM
steel driving hammer
[Edited by steel driving hammer]
15th March 2008 02:55 PM
parmeda
quote:Fiji Joe wrote:
Op eds...that's all you got?
Published Date: February 26, 2008
CHICAGO: In his first major public address since a cancer crisis, Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan said that presidential candidate Barack Obama is the "hope of the entire world" that the US will change for the better. The 74-year-old Farrakhan, former leader of the black Muslim group, never endorsed Obama outright, but spent much of his nearly two-hour speech Sunday to an estimated crowd of 20,000 people praising the Illinois senator.
This young man is the hope of the entire world that America will change and be made better," he said. "This young man is capturing audiences of black and brown and red and yellow. If you look at Barack Obama's audiences and look at the effect of his words, those people are being transformed.
Farrakhan compared Obama to the religion's founder, Fard Muhammad, who also had a white mother and black father. "A black man with a white mother became a savior to us," he told the crowd of mostly followers. "A black man with a white mother could turn out to be one who can lift America from her fall.
Farrakhan also leveled small jabs at Hillary Rodham Clinton, Obama's rival for the Democratic nomination, suggesting that she represents the politics of the past and has been engaging in dirty politics. Said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton: "Sen. Obama has been clear in his objections to Minister Farrakhan's past pronouncements and has not solicited the minister's support." Farrakhan rebuilt the Nation of Islam, which promotes black empowerment and nationalism, in the late 1970s after WD Mohammed, the
son of longtime leader Elijah Mohammed, moved his followers toward mainstream Islam.
Farrakhan has drawn attention for calling Judaism a "gutter religion" and suggesting crack cocaine might have been a CIA plot to enslave blacks. In recent years, however, officials with the Nation of Islam have promoted unity and tolerance among religions. Farrakhan now often quotes the texts of other religions, such as the Bible, in his speeches.
Farrakhan's keynote address at McCormick Place, the city's convention center, wrapped up three days of events geared at unifying followers and targeting youth. It had a different tone from a year ago, when Farrakhan made what was called his final public address at a Saviors' Day event in Detroit. The 74-year-old was recovering from complications from prostate cancer and months earlier had temporarily passed on leadership duties of the organization's day-to-day activities to an executive board. - AP
