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| tumbling_dice |
OK- this may sound dumb....but I can't help but wonder besides the worries of heat stroke, heart attacks, healthcare and terrorist attacks (which are very relevant)..... Is there any chance of being run over by fans trying to get to the stage? I am not very over-worried about this event.... but this stampede thing has always been my biggest fear in a large crowd. |
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| steel driving hammer |
I can easily imagine a drunken AC/DC fan wearing a AC/DC tour shirt there walking by a punk ass bitch wearing a Justin Timberlake shirt and starting some trouble...
Make No Mistake, about it...
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Oh yeah T-D....people get trampled at these things.
I don't think you'll have much to worry about during the shows, unless you are very near the front. If you are up front, you could get crushed against the security barriers as dumbasses try to push forward.
But the danger times for a stampede are just as the gates open, and right after the festival, when everyone is trying to get the hell out. |
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| parmeda |
This is so bittersweet for me.
As much as I had planned on attending...scheduling just didn't fall into place as I had planned. And in a way, it may have wound up to be a good thing. This gets scarier each day that passes.
For those of you that will brave-the-odds...be smart, be safe, be extremely careful. I'd like to be able to hear all of the "good" stories that come out of this by those of you that are planning on being there. |
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| jb |
Guys, in all seriousness, 81 was about the last tour were there was any real sense of "danger" left at a Stones concert. Since 89 forward, we are dealing with middle-aged men and woman more concerned with playing a song on their cell phone to impress a friend than actually being at a Rolling Stone's concert. The most dangerous thing that could occur is someone's "Depends" bursting and bystanders being sprayed with fecal material. Yes, a few old-timers may suffer heart attacks, heat-stroke, sun poisoining, etc, but that would occur at any large outdoor event. But pleae, to even suggest an Altamont like atmosphere is embarrassing..it's more like a large party at Century Village(a large retirement community down here).
[Edited by jb] |
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| gypsy |
That kind of thinking is why you're gonna end up getting caught with your secretary, jb. |
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| gypsy |
From PeopleNews:
"As implausible as it sounds, Michael Jackson is in trouble with the law for fighting. Jacko had taken his kids on a day trip to Universal City near Los Angeles when a female photographer swooped on the unsuspecting family and the alleged limp-wristed flap-fest took place. 'The woman was sent flying,' said a witness watching the fracas. 'Jackson was involved but his bodyguards did most of the pushing and shoving.' Reports that Jackson tried a flying roundhouse kick to the photographer's head are as yet unconfirmed, but police said no injuries were sustained by anyone so it seems unlikely.
'We are investigating a possible criminal action that took place during the confrontation,' said a spokesman for the cops. 'We are also still investigating Michael Jackson's involvement.' Witnesses were aghast at the behaviour of the normally flaccid and peace-loving Jackson. 'That ain't no way to heal the world,' said one. Others claimed to have heard the words: 'Not the face!' uttered during the scuffle."
Hmmm...makes you think that an Altamont is not all that unrealistic.
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| Joey |
" it's more like a large party at Century Village(a large retirement community down here). "
Didn't they all vote for Pat Buchanan during the last election ?
Shiver ................................
Bob Jacky !
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| jb |
yOU GOT IT , jOEY-ME INCLUDED! |
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| Joey |
" YOU GOT IT , jOEY-ME INCLUDED! "
You make Joey cry like baby - WHY ?!?!?!?!?!
WHY must you make young Joey cry so violently ?
WHY ?!?!?!?!?!?!
Sloooooooooly I take down my framed portrait of Henry Kissinger and slooooooooooly I put up the framed pic of Yasser Afarat .
" Everything about me is different
Symmetrical and clean Ronnie "
Bob Jacky !
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ JACKY }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
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| purrcafe |
In a word, no. There were many factors that contributed to make Altamont the disaster that it was, and those factors will surely not be present in Toronto. 30 odd years have passed, security measures are far more sophisticated, and everyone putting this on is wiser and more experienced, if only because rock and roll is much more of a business than it was in 1969. I saw two shows where attendence topped 500,000 and had saw no problems whatsoever. Go see the Stones. Enjoy it and don't worry. I wish I was going. |
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| jb |
I find citrical much easier to take than metamusol. |
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| Soul Survivor |
Bono is a twat |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Well Purrcafe....since you didn't see them, they must not have happened...right?
I know a guy who went to the last Woodstock event. I asked him what it was like getting caught in that riot. He had no idea what I was talking about. He didn't see it, and wasn't involved...but it still happened.
I didn't see anything bad happen at any of the big festivals I've been too either...but they happened just the same.
I've said before, big problems, if they occur, will be pre and post festival. You'll just have your usual drunks & medical emergencies during. |
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| steel driving hammer |
Go figure...(Is that Herpies on Clintons lip?)
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| purrcafe |
Stonesalot don't insult my intelligence and don't put words in my mouth. Take the statement for what it was: I've been at shows that were approximately the same size as the Toronto show will be. They were orderly affairs without any major incidents, to the best of my knowledge. I am quite sure that had there been significant problems, the city of New York would have simply not granted permits for any other shows of that magnitude in the future. There is absolutely no reason to think that Toronto will be a debacle. The Stones have too much riding on it, the city of Toronto has too much riding on it. The idea that there will be catastrophic problems at this show is just foolish. Will people be drunk, get sick? Yes. Will there be a handful of medical problems? Yes. Will this be another Altamont? Absolutely not. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Now you are putting words in my mouth.
I never once said that this WILL turn out to be another Altamont. I said it has the potential to be much worse...and considering the current world climate...that is an acurate statement. A festival of this size makes a very inviting target.
I make my living working in public safety. We get paid to anticipate problems, and prepare accordingly. Safety & security precautions, for a crowd of 500,000 plus people, is an impossibility. You can only do so much, and then hope for the best. Certainly ANYTHING that they do is better than what was done at Altamont.
NYC has perhaps THE BEST Emergency Management team in the country...even before 9/11. They are used to dealing with huge amounts of people an a daily basis. They have the resources to deal with huge numbers. Toronto is not NYC, and they have only done this ONCE for a religious gathering. Not exactly what I would call, an unruly crowd.
I don't know that it is possible to put a workable safety and security plan for a 500,000+ crowd together in 2 months time. Too many holes that can't be filled...like putting a bandaid on a compound fracture.
It is easy to shrug it off and say nothing will happen. And maybe nothing will happen, that is my sincere wish. But it has been my experience that things DO happen in these situations. And generally speaking, they are never GOOD things that happen.
I know that you people do not do what I do for a living. I get paid to play "what if". In this case, the very realistic "what if's" are very scarey. Let me put it this way...I'm glad that I'm not working in Toronto.
The other thing is...this show is not being produced by the Stones. They have nothing to do with any of the safety or security arrangements. They are depending on the city gov't, and the national gov't, to take the necessary measures. The Stones can't be blamed if anything goes wrong, simply because it isn't their show to run. I'm sure the media would TRY to pin it on the Stones somehow...but anyone with half a brain could see that this isn't the Stones show.
I think Toronto has some very big cajones to try to pull this off. The upside is good, but the downside is much worse. This is a big gamble, and I hope it pays off for them.
I just have problems putting my faith in the fact that 500,000+ people are going to behave for 20+ hours. |
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| gypsy |
I'm just trying to put pie in your mouths. |
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| telecaster |
quote:
gypsy wrote:
I'm just trying to put pie in your mouths.
I nominate gyspy as "Babe Of The Board" for July 2003
"Let them eat cake" Marie Antionette - Paris 1775
"Put Pie In Their Mouths" - Gypsy - OKC 2003
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
gypsy wrote:
I'm just trying to put pie in your mouths.
Deeeelish! One order, please, with drink, per specifications of the seminal "I Saw Her Standing There" rescipe of 1960.
In other news... I don't know. It's a big festival, and I think with big festivals do come the big festival problems. But something on the scale of Altamont or Woodstock '99? I doubt it. But you never know. I think the greatest amount of friction might come neo-Quadrophenia style if the Timberlakies get the shit kicked out of them by the AC/DC folks and so forth. If everyone just chills out (brothers and sisters!), it could be fun. Just bring headphones for Justin. Or, better yet, loud speakers and tomatoes.
-tSYX --- Well, she was just seventeen, you know what I mean... |
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| Soul Survivor |
It's mind boggiling.........
The Rolling Fucking Stones
(Best band of all time, best band to ever come from the other side of the ocean, original bad boys of rock)
AC/DC
(One of the greatest hard rock bands of all time, featuring the best brother act in rock....Angus & Malcolm Young, and Angues being a guitar legend)
....
But wait folks there's more. We've got......Justin Timberlake!
Justin Timberlake
(King of shit)
Boy, what a line up. The only way Toronto will end up like Altamont is during Timberlake's set....there will be a guy yelling "Justin Rules!" and then everyone would jump him. It would be tragic....but it would be cool.
GRRRRRR, that guy pisses the hell out of me. Justin Timberlake. Just what we need, another Michael Jackson wannabe. And his group, Inthesink.....I just want to punch the guy, and leave him on the side of the road for a crow to peck at his eye! |
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| JaggaRichards |
quote:
Soul Survivor wrote:
It's mind boggiling.........
The Rolling Fucking Stones
(Best band of all time, best band to ever come from the other side of the ocean, original bad boys of rock)
AC/DC
(One of the greatest hard rock bands of all time, featuring the best brother act in rock....Angus & Malcolm Young, and Angues being a guitar legend)
....
But wait folks there's more. We've got......Justin Timberlake!
Justin Timberlake
(King of shit)
Uhhhhh...what about the great Guess Who????? |
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| Soul Survivor |
Sorry....
Guess Who
(Fame for such hits as 'American Woman') |
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| Lazy Bones |
quote:
Soul Survivor wrote:
Sorry....
Guess Who
(Fame for such hits as 'American Woman')
I've seen them twice since they re-united with their extremely successful, "Runnin' Back Through Canada" tour in 2000. They followed, in 2001, with their "American Woman" tour of the US (with Joe Cocker) the following year, only to matched success. They hadn't played in the US since 1970.
Of course, American Woman is a show highlight (imo). |
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| tumbling_dice |
I seen them (the Guess Who) Canada Day in Ottawa. They are really good!
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| purrcafe |
We can go back and forth about this until the day after the show, when everyone congratulates themselves on a lovely, peaceful and happy day. I would say however that big problems can occur in small venues (Great White anyone?)just as easily as in large scale gatherings. If the Stones did not have the unfortunate mystique of Altamont in their past, the sort of problems you are alluding to would never have entered anyone's mind. Toronto might not be NY, but it is a major city that manages to function without having crumbled to dust just yet. I'd put my money on that trend continuing before, during, and after the show, no matter what any mall security guard might say about it. |
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| jb |
I would like to develop a r/s with Gypsy at this time. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
WTF pc?
Mall security guard?
Why are you being such a dick? I don't go to Burger King and make fun of your job.
I work for the County Office Of Public Safety. I work in a 911 Center, and I am a state certified EMT. I also work on the County Terrorism Task Force. I am on the County Courthouse Security Committee. Last year I had over 200 hrs of training in public safety issues. I already have that so far this year, much of which was security related. I know what I'm talking about.
If you talk to the Toronto EMA people, they'd tell you that they are shitting bricks right now(unless you happen to be a reporter, then everything will be under control, LOL). I have no doubts that the Toronto EMA people are highly skilled and very qualified.
But that is NOT my point. And I agree that bad things can happen with small venues too. But you multiply the risks as the size of the crowd increases. This event will stretch Torontos emergency services, police, and transportation systems to the max. They simply do not have the resources to call on that NYC has. This is a simple fact. If everything does not go EXACTLY as planned, there will be major problems.
I hope everything does go as planned. I really hope you can all rub my nose in this after it's over. I hope all 500,000+ behave in a kind and gentle manner, and they all have the kind of wonderful day that they can tell the grandkids about someday. But I'm quite cynical about how a crowd of 500,000 people will behave after being put under high stress. My personal experience and training tell me that things could get very nasty. THAT is what you must prepare for, and if it isn't that bad, then it's a bonus.
I get paid to think about stuff that everyone else takes forgranted. And if my words on these threads have made even one single person think about how to keep themselves safe at that festival, then it was worth every keystroke. |
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| LadyJane |
SS....At first, your warnings got me so frightened that I nearly cancelled my plans.
Now, I am actually glad the topic came up. I think all of us that are attending need to be VERY aware of what lies ahead of us (good and bad) and act appropriately.
My days of rushing the stage at a crowd that massive are long gone. I'll be happy to find a nice spot where I can see the Jumbotron and listen to the Band I love.
I'll leave the rest to common sense, faith and fate!!
Thanks for your concern for our welfare!!! 
LadyJ.
PS. If you see a Molson truck has been hijacked and is heading toward the stage.....I'll be the redhead dancing on the roof!!!!
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| purrcafe |
Why am I being such a dick? Read the first line of your reply to my first post on this subject and tell me who set the tone. Anyway, I'm sure that the proper people are being consulted and that appropriate steps in crowd control will taken, and there will be enough clearly marked entrances and exits and toilets and overpriced food for one and all. And, everyone be nice to Justin Timberlake. He is part of what is ultimately a good cause, even if his set will be torture to sit through. |
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