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| steel driving hammer |
Just a question, not a statement... |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
I've had a very bad vibe about this thing almost from the beginning. I was making plans to go(I was filling out my vacation request at work), and a voice in my head said, "Stop. You do not want to do this. Do not go."
I do not usually hear voices in my head, and this startled me. In fact, it gave me the creeps. I have had a very bad feeling about this thing since that happened. I can't explain why or how this happened. But ever since that day, I've had a feeling of dread about this festival.
It really bothers me. I think that is why I went a bit heavy on my criticism of the thing....why I am so worried about my friends that are going.
God, I pray that I'm so very wrong. |
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| steel driving hammer |
Yup, you and I are very close to Toronto and I almost went just to see if I could get into Miss U's panties.
But I know for sure the security will be tigher than what the Hells Angels had...
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Well, yeah, considering the Angels did nothing but beat the fuck out of people and drink a lot.
To do effective security for 500,000 people, you would need AT LEAST, 25,000 people working security.
You see, for an event this size, there really isn't any way to do effective security. They can set up choke points and search bags, but in terms of REAL security, that means nothing. You can't control a crowd that size.
I can't even imagine what a nightmare emergency services is going to have. How do you get paramedics to a heat stroke victim in the middle of 500,000 people without injuring more spectators?
I see a very real dangers involved with this festival. Perhaps it's just because of working in Emergency Services. But events of this size present very terrifying realities. There is a very real potential for this to be FAR worse than Altamont. |
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| Soul Survivor |
Worse than Altamont.....that would be an upset. To think of how the band would feel, considering what did happen 34 years ago....and to have it happen again would be horriffic. Imagine the press if something did go wrong.....they would try to make the band look so bad. They would also bring Altamont into it.
I really dont know what to think because Im not that familiar with festivals and all that junk, but I do have a feeling that things could easily get out of control.
*Uneasy feeling in the stomach* |
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| Lazy Bones |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Just a question, not a statement...
No. Toronto's stage will be bigger; and the sound, better.
In addition, the helicopter(s) will be more spacious. |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
Lazy Bones wrote:
In addition, the helicopter(s) will be more spacious.
Enough to fit Bill in, in case he wakes up on time?
Oh, wait, he's not in the band anymore. Nevermind!
Spacious enough to fit the luxury coffin of our mate Jerry in so that he can land, survey the situation and leave?
-tSYX --- What a long strange trip it's been... |
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| EthanWickedAsHeSeems |
Of course the potential for disaster is always there whenever you walk out the door. Be optimistic...think of half a million people singing along and dancing to the Stones.
You wont get heat stroke...bring a bottle or 2 of water with you, and a cell phone. While you are at it, snatch the soundboard. |
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| Prodigal Son |
The sad part is that if it happened, the media (at least outside of Canada where they'd blast the MP who organized it all) would blame the Stones. As if they could control it. They'll compare it to Altamont and try to ruin the Stones reputation and blackball the band because some media people seem to have an unhealthy jealousy for the Stones who are still rolling while their favourite media-friendly acts broke up ages ago. God, I know this would be the consequence of a catastrophe at the SARS Festival. They'd ignore the fact that AC/DC is one of the top headliners. I truly hope all goes well. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Well, I certainly hope nothing happens either.
I'm just saying, that since I make my living working in public safety, and having had some training in this kind of scenario, in my professional opinion, the chance of a major incident involving the loss of life is 50/50 at best.
In my little county of 37,000 people, we average 7 heart attacks per day. With 500,000 people you can expect 20 to 50 heart attacks during the festival. That doesn't count the various and sundry broken bones and lacerations from fall victims. And Ethan, you will need more than just a couple of bottles of water to avoid heat stroke. Heat stroke and dehydration are 2 totally different things. Heat stroke comes from your internal body temp staying at an elevated level for too long. You can fall victim to heat stroke without becoming dehydrated. If the temp reaches the high 80'sF or higher, people will be dropping like flys.
I don't know what Toronto's health care system is like. How many hospitals are close by? They'll have to be ready for mass casualty incidents.
I really hope it's just gonna be 500,000 people singing all day. But I have my doubts. |
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| Prodigal Son |
Being a former Toronto resident, I can tell you SS, that based on where they're playing, hospitals won't be far off. But the problem is if that is the only readily accesible hospital. With any problems due to heat stroke and other injuries/mishaps, the Toronto health care system will rear its inept head. There's usually not enough nurses, doctors or hospital beds per person because of budget cuts and decreased funding over the last 10 years, so any mass problems will result in chaos. I know this from living there.
When I was 2 and gave myself 2nd degree burns on my chest from spilling hot tea (damn, I don't recall it at all but that must have hurt), I had to wait forever apparently. Then, when my sister needed stitches on seperate occassions late at night, the hospitals were so bad that she and my parents had to wait until like 3 a.m. Now, these things were years ago. The last time someone needed a hospital when I lived there, it took even longer. It's like that in Canada.
It may be free health care, but it sure takes a damn long time to get the treatment you need. Plus, any operations for transplants, cancer, heart problems, etc. will put you on a long waiting list that makes most seek help down south if they have the moolah. The U.S. system works in that regard. If you've got the cash, you won't be waiting for months, even years. But then again, not everyone can afford it. |
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| beer |
Of course it won't end up like Altamont. The Stones don't and won't take any chances. besides, rock-n-roll on this level isn't dangerous any more. not even close. might as well be N-sync. |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
I can't even imagine what a nightmare emergency services is going to have. How do you get paramedics to a heat stroke victim in the middle of 500,000 people without injuring more spectators?
Also the Paramedic tent will prolly have a long waiting line for people who don't have water or just have a little scratch on thier arm or leg. |
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| Lazy Bones |
quote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
It may be free health care, but it sure takes a damn long time to get the treatment you need. Plus, any operations for transplants, cancer, heart problems, etc. will put you on a long waiting list that makes most seek help down south if they have the moolah. The U.S. system works in that regard. If you've got the cash, you won't be waiting for months, even years. But then again, not everyone can afford it.
Firstly, nothing is free. A large reason why taxes are so high is for the operation of health care. Thus, when you have a system that has to accomodate everyone, treatment, as you SHOULD know, is based on severity of emergency. Every hour is different from the next. I would imagine, however, that the minor heat-related illnesses that occur at the Park will be treated by emergency workers there.
What you don't know, is the minimum cost for a visit to ER is $400. So, sure, you think the US system is better, try to imagine yourself constantly prepared, financially, for such a visit if you don't have some sort of insurance. Of course scheduled operations are just that - scheduled. If you have heart or breathing difficulties you are treated immediately and tested extensively - unlike stitches. If a US resident required immediate, life-threatning treament, a Canadian hospital would administer treatment first, rather than stand at the door with it's hand out.
With all due respect, expecting a bed and a nurse for every patient is absurd and unrealistic, to say the least. Not to mention, distasteful in striking fear for soon-to-be guests of the great city of Toronto. |
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| Jumping Jack |
Altamont had Hell's Angels but didn't have terrorists. I hope this is treated like an Olympic event in terms of security. |
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| steel driving hammer |
For me, the Toronto Gig is just too big to have fun.
Fighting for survival, clinging to the ledge...
If I wanted water, W' W' W' W' Water, got it from the well...
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| telecaster |
I hope it isn't like the last "Woodstock XIII" or whatever it was called. Fricking disaster |
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| corgi37 |
1 very major reason why Toronto wont be Altamont (pretty dumb thread by the way, why cant Toronto be, say,Hyde Park 69?) is that the insurance industry (read, litigators) are more sophisticated, and their is just no way the stones would be involved in anything without almost 100% security-proof assurances. No chances will be taken. Of course, their can never be guarantees, but people who think security is not going to be tighter than a nuns gash is kidding themselves. With a gig this size, with tv rights, with the Stones rep, with TORONTO's rep on the line, it will be the the people NOT in security jackets that will be the spooks. Man, i wonder if there will be more undecover cops, feds, cia, fbi, mounties, scouts, porn stars than actual fans! |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
I hope it isn't like the last "Woodstock XIII" or whatever it was called. Fricking disaster
I will never forget the post on Keno's about 3/4 years ago by Syph. The Subject Header - "Losers At Woodstock"
Refering to the lastest Alternative Woodstock held just 3/4 years ago. |
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| jb |
Justin Timbelake=No Altamont!!! |
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| steel driving hammer |
Rush = No Altamont!
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Security tighter than a nun's gash?!? That's a good one.
But can't happen.
It will be tighter than is usual at events like these. But that still makes it virtually non-existent. There is no such thing as security, or crowd control, for 500,000 people.
The main reason why this won't be like Altamont or Hyde Park, or even the original Woodstock...is that this is 2003. Very far removed from the "Summer Of Love". The same nitwits that exploded the last Woodstock, will be the same type of nitwits who are gonna be the problem at Toronto.
Honestly, I don't look for too many problems during the performance part of the gigs...it will be after it's over that is the danger zone. They estimate 6 hours to clear the festival grounds? Danger Danger Will Robinson! 500,000, hot, sweaty, exhausted, stressed people...all trying to get out at the same time. That is a very volitile situation. I know the police chief sent out a plea for everyone to be patient, but that just tells me that he expects trouble.
One last thing...people DIE from heat stroke. It isn't some minor little affliction. EMS on scene can take some emergency measures to prevent death, but treatment is required at a hospital to ensure proper recovery. Heat Stroke, if not properly treated, can have dire consequenses. You can suffer permenent loss of motor skills, brain damage, damage to vital internal organs like the kidneys, liver, and heart.
Here are some early warning signs, if you experience any of these symptoms find a cool shaded area, get lots of water in you, and do NOT go back out into the heat until your symptoms are gone for at least an hour.
Headache/dizziness/cramping/shortness of breath/flushed dry skin/nausea
The first things you will notice are the cramping and headache. PLease, if you start feeling a headache, and your muscles start to cramp, you have to take some action. DO NOT WAIT. You are in a bad way and about to get A LOT worse. You must take care of yourself immediately.
Honestly, the best situation would be a rainy day. I know it would dampen the fun mood, but there will be a whole lot less medical problems. |
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| Joey |
" Justin Timbelake=No Altamont!!! "
If anyone doesn't survive this Toronto SARSFest Gig , I hope it is Justin .
" Gypsy pees Perfume Ronnie "
JACKYBOY ! |
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| steel driving hammer |
Read somewhere Chicago has the highest deaths of Heat Stroke.
Also Chicago has the highest deaths for people shovelling snow.
I told you Chicago is a lazy fat bastard City.
Now gimme another Polish Sausauge Ditka. |
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| Joey |
" I told you Chicago is a lazy fat bastard City. "
My Baby Steelie ...........................
We going sailing this weekend ??????????
Please ................I's justs gots to knows .....
" Gypsy pees perfume Ronnie "
Jacky ! |
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| parmeda |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Read somewhere Chicago has the highest deaths of Heat Stroke.
Also Chicago has the highest deaths for people shovelling snow.
I told you Chicago is a lazy fat bastard City.
Now gimme another Polish Sausauge Ditka.
Steelie, you fucker!
rotflmao....I'm losing mascara and it's too fricken early! |
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| telecaster |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Read somewhere Chicago has the highest deaths of Heat Stroke.
Also Chicago has the highest deaths for people shovelling snow.
I told you Chicago is a lazy fat bastard City.
Now gimme another Polish Sausauge Ditka.
Plus Chicago is the murder capital of the US, Trifecta!!!!!
Think of all those parking spaces that just opened up. |
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| Joey |
" Think of all those parking spaces that just opened up. "
Not to mention the brand new job openings .
YES !!!!!!
" Freddy can we cut to the Chase Ronnie ??????"
Jacky !
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| Prodigal Son |
No, wait. I'm not trying to strike fear into people's hearts. Leave that to SS. I have only a slight worry. But it has much more security precautions than Altamont. I was just giving a background on hospitaling if things did get out of hand. But hopefully nothing will be so bad that emergency workers couldn't handle it. The bottom line when you go there is; don't worry, just prepare and enjoy the day's worth of rocking out. Have fun (well, except when Rush and Timberdyke are out there)! |
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| littleredrooster |
STEELIE!!!
Another GREAT AVATAR!!!
Too bad it is heavily cropped!! |
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