| November 5th, 2005 05:49 AM |
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| Moonisup |
Why would cnn show riots in Paris, but not from let's say uhh Iraq? Florida or New Orleans, that puzzles me |
| November 5th, 2005 01:56 PM |
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| glencar |
Uh, there were no riots in New Orleans or Florida. Nice try though. Iraq is constantly on my news. I get the feeling that your media shows whatever bad stuff is happening over there too. BTW I read elsewhere that some Muslim terrorists tried to take out an El Al plane on its departure from Amsterdam.
[Edited by glencar] |
| November 5th, 2005 02:57 PM |
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| pdog |
Could happen here... |
| November 5th, 2005 04:13 PM |
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| Riffhard |
I am aware that with all that's going on in France it's not just a race/religion problem but,there can be absolutly no doubt that it is an Islamic problem as well. When I say Islam I am not refering to muslims per se. Rather the mass influx of radical Islamic immigrants into Western Europe from counries from Northern Africa and the Middle and Far East. France has a Islamic population of 10,000,000!!! That is insane! For a counrtry that has always prided itself on it's diverse and storied history it seems to me that they are allowing their country to be overrun by a populace that states outtright their goal is to spread Islam throughout the whole of the world. In other words France's great history will be destroyed if the likes of the radical fucks get what they want. It is their stated goal afterall. Yet,for some insane reason France's leaders and populace just bury their heads in the sand. Refusing to see what is happening right under their noses.
I wonder if the world will wake up in time to turn the tide on this growing problem. This isn't race baiting or bigotry on my part mind you. I could post links to at least 25 seperate Islamic sites which state quite clearly that the Islamic plan is to do away with western style democracies and put in their place radical Islam and Wahabbisim.
Europe knowingly has adopted a so called "progressive secular society". Wow! Great move guys! Do you see what happens when you remove all vestiages of Western styled religion from your world veiw?! It's called creating a vacume. That vacume is being filled in France,Germany,the Netherlands,and even England with a massive influx of Islamists who don't even come close to believeing the way you do. They will just impart their own brand of religion on your shores. They still hold up Saladin as their great leader for fuck's sake! Good luck with that folks.
I would be willing to bet in less than twenty years all of us "no nothing" conservatives will be able to look you straight in the face and say,"we told you so."
This shit in France right now is nothing more than the calm before the storm,but it's coming. That much is for sure. Not to worry America will,once again,not let you guys down. We'll be there for you when needed.
Start protesting this shit guys. If I lived in France I would be up my goverment's ass to stop this obscene open door immigration policy. To allow this radical influx to continue you is absurd. It's the 21st century's version of the Trojan Horse. France is wheeling the big bastard through the gates of Paris on a daily basis. Will there be any outrage or shock when the problem blows up in your faces? This rioting shit that we see now is mearly the tip of the iceberg. Just hating America and Bush will not keep radical Islamists happy.
Riffhard |
| November 5th, 2005 04:29 PM |
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| BILL PERKS |
I'D RIOT TOO IF I LIVED IN PARIS |
| November 5th, 2005 05:05 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
Its so true, Riffy. France needs to get its head out of its butt, close its borders, and embark on half trillion dollar Islamic nation building projects like we do. Or at least cut some freakin' deals with Momo Quadaffi. Some damn thing! Its the only way to fight this neo-retro-reverse-anti-secularismness that you described.
To win a war, you gotta be a war. Or you can hold hands.
Whahabbi? Que?
Jesus flippin' Christ, its just too upside down and backasswards for me to read posts, from a guy who ADMITS he's proud to be German, predicting America is going to save Europe from a hypothetical WWIII against Islam. Sorry my friend, I'm predicting WWIII is against you guys yet again. The undisputed facts favor my soothesaying over your'n. History shows that you Germans are just as demented as Islamics, but 10 times smarter. You guys will figure out how to build WMD and use them for the Fatherland, long before Islam ever figures out how to buy them from someone else. |
| November 5th, 2005 05:37 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Uh Moonie,I'm an American my friend.
Seculaism does indeed lead to a vacume. I could cite fact upon fact. Post link upon link that will historically back that up. It's a fact. From Istanbul to Constatinoble(sp?),but the facts are there.
Let's see. We have millions of terrorists attacks in the last four decades. The vast vast vast majority of those attacks were from Islamists. There number one target has always been the west and/or Israel.
Go read Danial Pipes blog my friend. Wrap your head around the FACTS of Wahabisim and then tell me again with a straight face that we are not in the middle of WWIII.
As for Bush's handhold with King Faud? Big deal! The guy is dead! Like it or not every US administration has had a close relasionship with the Suadis. I could post very similar pictures with Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton in a situation just like the one you posted with regards to Bush. Oil happens! It's a problem that certainly needs to be addressed. It will get better when the Dems can't tie our hands behind our backs,and we can actully start to build new refineries and drill again within the USA.
My wish has nothing to do with US politics here. I just hope that France wakes up to the threat that they themselves have allowed to take root in thier country. Judging form some of the French reporters I have been watching on the news lately they are starting to see it as a real and growing problem. As well they should.
Your outright hatered of Germans has me puzzled moonie? I come from German decent I'll tell you that. English as well. My grandfather fought in the Battle of the Buldge against the nazis. He was a minister. He lead a prayer at the steps of the Reich Chancloery(again sp?) the day that Berlin fell. When the Russians blwe the Nazi swastika off the top of the buiding my grandfather's hand helped push the detonator! Cool huh?
Riffy |
| November 5th, 2005 06:19 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Uh this thing os a little worse than the MSM would have us believe. Take a look.
Looks like it's organized by radical Islam,shocker!
Riffy |
| November 5th, 2005 06:30 PM |
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| Prodigal Son |
These radical fucks are trying to screw the whole world by taking their jihad to every Western country they can get their people into. I have no problem with the concept of religion (if only all of them could be peaceful and just dance around to gospel songs like the African-Americans of the South have done for years), just how it allows twisted S.O.B's to think the world is theirs for the taking. It's annoying and I hope in my lifetime I never have to deal with this shit.
But hey, immigration has reached the state where extreme religious zealots are arriving in Western countries. It used to be you could assimilate the various religious/ethnic backgrounds of immigrants coming to America. But lately, when Middle Eastern folks began coming in, it all went to hell. Immigration is no longer what makes America (or the whole Western hemipshere) great, it makes it a more confusing and dangerous place. This open door thing has to be put to rest. It's not 1890 anymore and we're not welcoming in foreigners with open arms at Ellis Island.
I'm not racist or anything, but this is the cold, hard truth. The riots in Paris only make it more obvious. It's a good thing Muslims have found it easier to assimilate in North America but that doesn't stop Islamic fundamentalists from practicing their demented ways. Seems like the more the world becomes one big global village, the more it becomes a breeding ground for hatred and war. What a shame. |
| November 5th, 2005 07:14 PM |
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| KeithRichards |
Holy shit, people stop talking about things you have no clue about!!
The riots in Paris are not based on religious believes!
The banlieues were created in the 60ies and 70ies to accommodate the immigrants from Maghreb, but the problem is that they became a Ghetto and people there, especially the youth is without much home in the elitist system in France. That is the main cause for the riots, not some weird problem you Neocons are trying to make up here! |
| November 5th, 2005 07:21 PM |
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| glencar |
LOL So these Arabs went to France & you stuffed 'em in ghettoes & now they're revolting. And most are Muslim & yell Allah Akbar or whatever it is they scream as they attack. But it's not religion based? No wonder the (deleted in the interest of int'l relations!)
[Edited by glencar] |
| November 5th, 2005 07:25 PM |
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| justforyou |
What imbecile propositions! For a country with a large population of different ethnic groups .... should they be deported ? Marked as lesser humans ? Wake up ...
Close the borders...EU entrance rules are tough for people in the 3rd world, but even some of them make it to the 'promised lands' of prosperity, while many other hopefulls get stuck somewhere hoping to save up money so they can pay their way through.
And what waits them on arrival ?
Love ?
Accept ?
Friendship ?
Trust ?
Security ?
Jobs ?
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| November 5th, 2005 07:26 PM |
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| Gazza |
what a surprise to see the supposed original purpose of this thread descend to the usual bullshit.... |
| November 5th, 2005 07:50 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
KeithRichards wrote:
Holy shit, people stop talking about things you have no clue about!!
The riots in Paris are not based on religious believes!
The banlieues were created in the 60ies and 70ies to accommodate the immigrants from Maghreb, but the problem is that they became a Ghetto and people there, especially the youth is without much home in the elitist system in France. That is the main cause for the riots, not some weird problem you Neocons are trying to make up here!
If that's the case then why are French goverment offcials now looking at radical Islamic organizations as the root cause? Did you read the link that I provided?
Are you shocked that Islam is resorting to this?! It's exactly their MO. They look for the poor disenfranchised youth and then they exploit them. That's what is happening. Hey the same thing happened in Spain too! Read up on the radical Islam history of the last fifty years. This is exactlty how it starts everytime! Every single time!
I'm no neocon by the way. Rather a realist that does not have blinders on. Wake up and stay safe.
Riffy |
| November 5th, 2005 08:07 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
what a surprise to see the supposed original purpose of this thread descend to the usual bullshit....
You're right Gary. My appologies for my part in that. I really was just hoping that our French RO'ers would stay safe,but then,well you konw...
Good luck France.
Riffy |
| November 5th, 2005 09:23 PM |
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| KeithRichards |
Well, didn't want to offend anyone, sorry if I did so, I maybe shouldn't post when I'm angry.
Again - yeah, Sarkozy is claiming that the riots are organized and lead by some group. This is however not backed up by any facts and it's not very likely that there is really an organisation behind that. There might very well be dangerous religious Jihad fighters in the banlieues in France, however they don't have anything to do with the current riots.
You have to understand that France fails since I-don't-know-how many years to find a solution for the banlieue problems. Some people there are used to be without work since two generations, they are highly fustrated and it's quite logical that this situation is leading to conflicts. Most of the people that live there are no terrorists, they are hard working people, but the youth there has almost no perspectives...France is a very very elitist country and it's very hard for a "Beur", especially from the banlieues to get a decent job.
Those riots now are not a result of Arabs wanting to take over Europe, it's frustrated young people, they almost got no future perspecives and the death of the two young people let to the riots now.
I am sorry for anyone who is affected by this riots, but we have to understand the real reasons for these problems and not get lost in cheap polemics about the danger of Islam.
This is my last post on this thread and I truly hope that the problems will soon be solved! |
| November 6th, 2005 01:27 AM |
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| glencar |
Even those of us who don't like France hope these problems get solved. It's just so damn funny to see how that smug lil nation can't handle its own racial propblems any better than the rest of the world. Maybe the French will gain some humility after all this? |
| November 6th, 2005 06:30 AM |
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| caro |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Uh this thing os a little worse than the MSM would have us believe. Take a look.
Looks like it's organized by radical Islam,shocker!
Riffy
Looks like you'll believe anything provided it has the words "radical Islam" in it, shocker!
Sarkozy showed a blatant direspect for people who live in poor districts, and he's paying for it. And of course, terrorist organizations are jumping on the riot bandwagon. They'd be stupid not to. BTW, where does your article say anything about riots being "organized" by radical Islam? Call me crazy, but I think you distorted that article's meaning on purpose.
For the rest, I agree with everything KeithRichards said. France has nothing to be proud of, but that doesn't mean this is an Islam-vs.-Europe problem. |
| November 6th, 2005 07:48 AM |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
glencar wrote:
Maybe the French will gain some humility after all this?
LOL
[Edited by Jumacfly] |
| November 6th, 2005 10:06 AM |
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| tumbled |
same thing happening here monkeywoman. just haven't started throwing rocks yet. |
| November 6th, 2005 12:16 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
caro wrote:
Looks like you'll believe anything provided it has the words "radical Islam" in it, shocker!
Sarkozy showed a blatant direspect for people who live in poor districts, and he's paying for it. And of course, terrorist organizations are jumping on the riot bandwagon. They'd be stupid not to. BTW, where does your article say anything about riots being "organized" by radical Islam? Call me crazy, but I think you distorted that article's meaning on purpose.
For the rest, I agree with everything KeithRichards said. France has nothing to be proud of, but that doesn't mean this is an Islam-vs.-Europe problem.
caro you completely missed my point. I wasn't saying that the riots were started by radical Islam,. I said that radical Islam will fill the void. They will exploit this situation. That is just a fact. It's happening too. So we are really in agreement here. As for me believing anything with the words "radical Islam" in it. That's just not true,but I do know very well that 90% of the world's terror problems are started by radical Islam. We are in the middle of a major cultural war here,and it's high time that world figured that out. You're also right about it not being Islam vs Europe problem. It's really more like Islam vs the world problem.
I hope all calms down soon in France and you folks stay. safe.
Riffy |
| November 6th, 2005 01:56 PM |
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| caro |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
caro you completely missed my point. I wasn't saying that the riots were started by radical Islam,. I said that radical Islam will fill the void.
No I didn't miss your point. You always mix up events and topics that have nothing to do with each other. The logic of your political posts is so screwed up that you can back out of any statement you made before. Sorry to be harsh, but I'm tired of people using Islamism as an excuse to insult my arab friends &neighbours.
Here are some examples of what you said:
quote:
I am aware that with all that's going on in France it's not just a race/religion problem but,there can be absolutly no doubt that it is an Islamic problem as well. When I say Islam I am not refering to muslims per se. Rather the mass influx of radical Islamic immigrants into Western Europe from counries from Northern Africa and the Middle and Far East. France has a Islamic population of 10,000,000!!! That is insane! For a counrtry that has always prided itself on it's diverse and storied history it seems to me that they are allowing their country to be overrun by a populace that states outtright their goal is to spread Islam throughout the whole of the world. In other words France's great history will be destroyed if the likes of the radical fucks get what they want. It is their stated goal afterall. Yet,for some insane reason France's leaders and populace just bury their heads in the sand. Refusing to see what is happening right under their noses.
I wonder if the world will wake up in time to turn the tide on this growing problem. This isn't race baiting or bigotry on my part mind you. I could post links to at least 25 seperate Islamic sites which state quite clearly that the Islamic plan is to do away with western style democracies and put in their place radical Islam and Wahabbisim.
Europe knowingly has adopted a so called "progressive secular society". Wow! Great move guys! Do you see what happens when you remove all vestiages of Western styled religion from your world veiw?! It's called creating a vacume. That vacume is being filled in France,Germany,the Netherlands,and even England with a massive influx of Islamists who don't even come close to believeing the way you do. They will just impart their own brand of religion on your shores. They still hold up Saladin as their great leader for fuck's sake! Good luck with that folks.
I would be willing to bet in less than twenty years all of us "no nothing" conservatives will be able to look you straight in the face and say,"we told you so."
This shit in France right now is nothing more than the calm before the storm,but it's coming. That much is for sure. Not to worry America will,once again,not let you guys down. We'll be there for you when needed.
This really pisses me off : it's a typical example of how you start carefully by saying you don't mean to attack all muslims, and then you end up lumping everyone - arabs, muslims, islamic radicals, terrorists - into the same group.
"When I say Islam I am not refering to muslims per se. Rather the mass influx of radical Islamic immigrants into Western Europe from counries from Northern Africa and the Middle and Far East. France has a Islamic population of 10,000,000!!!"
What does the number of muslim immigrants have to do with the number of radical Islamic immigrants? Is there some law stating that every 10th muslim is a radical? These people come to Europe mainly for economic reasons, I hope you know that. Religious radicalism is an idea, it isn't written in the genes of the immigrants. So I don't see the relation between your 2nd and your 3rd sentence. All I can see is that you're trying to make it look like an immigrant = a radical islamic immigrant.
"it seems to me that they are allowing their country to be overrun by a populace that states outtright their goal is to spread Islam throughout the whole of the world"
Same thing here. The vast majority of this "populace" states outright that they would just like to get a decent job and a safe home for their families. BTW, I agree that it isn't possible to let all immigrants in. France can't provide jobs&food for everyone in the world. But that's about the only point I agree with in your post.
And then, after rambling about Islamic radicals and muslim immigrants for 4 entire paragraphs, your conclusion is "This rioting shit that we see now is mearly the tip of the iceberg." And then you want me to believe I missed your point?!
And just to make sure I'm not distorting what you said, here are two more examples:
quote:
If that's the case then why are French goverment offcials now looking at radical Islamic organizations as the root cause? Did you read the link that I provided?
(They aren't, by the way. At least not in the link you provided)
quote:
Looks like it's organized by radical Islam,shocker!
(BTW, you haven't answered my question : where did the article say the riots were "organized" by radical Islam?)
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| November 6th, 2005 02:00 PM |
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| Moonisup |
why can't we discuss porn? |
| November 6th, 2005 02:01 PM |
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| Jumacfly |
We got balls in France Rik!
[Edited by Jumacfly]
[Edited by Jumacfly] |
| November 6th, 2005 02:24 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Caro my friend after rereading some of the posts that you had quoted I see that I could have chosen my words a little better. I still feel that Europe as a whole has a very real time bomb ticking within it's boarders due to an open door immigration policy,but I do not feel that all Muslims are bad people. I think that the linked article says it better than I ever could. Read it and let me know what you think. I would really be intersted in your thoughts.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/stey...dt-steyn06.html
Riffy |
| November 6th, 2005 08:24 PM |
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| glencar |
I saw on tonight's ABC News that now the Germans & Italians are worried about their immigrant communities revolting. |
| November 7th, 2005 09:11 AM |
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| lotsajizz |
cheap labor has consequences...the US should beware |
| November 7th, 2005 10:05 AM |
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| Mathijs |
In todays news it was pointed out that the riots are organised by youth gangs that have nothing to do Islamist extremists or any religion in that case. It was pointed out that riots like these can happen in any major city with a large population of unemployed and ill-educated people. The main cause of the riots appear to be boredom, and a need to attract medio attention.
In a way you can tie the riots to the immigration politics of Europe -if you open the boarders to large groups of people without education and place them all in getto's you create cicumstances like this. We have seen this before in the last 50 years of history in both Europe and the US, whether it being African-Americans in the US, or Northern-Maroccan in France. Whenever there's a large group of people who feel to be placed outside social society, riots like this or anarchy like we've seen in New Orleans can happen. This is universal, and can happen easily in any other town with comparable social structures: Rotterdam, Brussels, Antwerp, Berlin, Leeds, Manchester, Madrid, Milan, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, L.A., New Orleans
Mathijs |
| November 7th, 2005 11:02 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
These are the types of things that lead to dictatorship. |
| November 7th, 2005 11:43 AM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
In todays news it was pointed out that the riots are organised by youth gangs that have nothing to do Islamist extremists or any religion in that case. It was pointed out that riots like these can happen in any major city with a large population of unemployed and ill-educated people. The main cause of the riots appear to be boredom, and a need to attract medio attention.
In a way you can tie the riots to the immigration politics of Europe -if you open the boarders to large groups of people without education and place them all in getto's you create cicumstances like this. We have seen this before in the last 50 years of history in both Europe and the US, whether it being African-Americans in the US, or Northern-Maroccan in France. Whenever there's a large group of people who feel to be placed outside social society, riots like this or anarchy like we've seen in New Orleans can happen. This is universal, and can happen easily in any other town with comparable social structures: Rotterdam, Brussels, Antwerp, Berlin, Leeds, Manchester, Madrid, Milan, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, L.A., New Orleans
Mathijs
Gosh...if it was on the news it has to be true
98% of the people that are burning Paris are Muslims
Why in the world would you defend that?
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