| November 7th, 2005 11:45 AM |
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| Moonisup |
"Gosh...if it was on the news it has to be true"
In europe we don't let our government controling the news. In the US, this is sadly the case.
Please read the Independent or something |
| November 7th, 2005 11:49 AM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
Moonisup wrote:
"Gosh...if it was on the news it has to be true"
In europe we don't let our government controling the news. In the US, this is sadly the case.
Please read the Independent or something
Sadly, you have no idea what you are talking about
I guess the BBC and all the other government run news stations are in my imagination
Where is this the case that the US government controls the news?
Let us know
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| November 7th, 2005 11:55 AM |
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| Moonisup |
not allowing dead US bodies from the war in Iraq, that was a big thing, a few coffins in a plane, and the whole country went wild.
Hurricane Katrina
And indeed, also in Europe the Governments like to control it, but not in such a big way as in the US
I don't mind that the US government does that, I don't live there, but when people tell that in the US there is more pressfreedom, I just can't let it go!
Rik
referring to this pic:
[Edited by Moonisup] |
| November 7th, 2005 11:55 AM |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Gosh...if it was on the news it has to be true
98% of the people that are burning Paris are Muslims
Wrong.
And racist.
98% are poor people.
Sorry but that is the true.
you try to mix the problem of social poverty with religion.
oh,wait, it was on tv so of course it's true.
Remember the MDW in Irak??
it was on tv too...
just my 2 euros....
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| November 7th, 2005 12:01 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
There's no excuse for it. Poor or not. |
| November 7th, 2005 12:03 PM |
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| Moonisup |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
There's no excuse for it. Poor or not.
true! |
| November 7th, 2005 12:05 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
Close the city and tell the people that something's coming to call
Death and darkness are rushing forward to take a bite from the wall, oh
You've nothing to say
They're breaking away
If you listen to fools...
The Mob Rules
The Mob Rules
Kill the spirit and you'll be blinded, the end is always the same
Play with fire, you burn your fingers and lose your hold of the flame, oh
It's over, it's done
the end is begun
If you listen to fools...
The Mob Rules
You've nothing to say
Oh, They're breaking away
If you listen to fools...
Break the circle and stop the movement, the wheel is thrown to the ground
Just remember it might start rolling and take you right back around
You're all fools!
The Mob Rules! |
| November 7th, 2005 12:31 PM |
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| Scottfree |
quote:
BILL PERKS wrote:
I'D RIOT TOO IF I LIVED IN PARIS
Amen brudder (in a secular sense) |
| November 7th, 2005 12:41 PM |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
There's no excuse for it. Poor or not.
Amen to that!
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| November 7th, 2005 01:03 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Moonisup wrote:
not allowing dead US bodies from the war in Iraq, that was a big thing, a few coffins in a plane, and the whole country went wild.
Hurricane Katrina
And indeed, also in Europe the Governments like to control it, but not in such a big way as in the US
I don't mind that the US government does that, I don't live there, but when people tell that in the US there is more pressfreedom, I just can't let it go!
Rik
referring to this pic:
[Edited by Moonisup]
Rik you are absolutely wrong about this. The fact that the government did not want those pictures shown was out of respect for the families,and certainly to keep the discouragement down. However, what the liberals will not tell you,maybe because they are clueless themselves, is that this has been US policy going back to the 2nd world war. There were no casualty reports from WWII until mid 1942. That's a fact,but you'd think that only the Bush admin held this policy. Not true! Not even close to true! Try and Google a picture of American coffins returning from WWII. Good luck. Back in those days the press actually still seemed to think that America was a great nation. Now days they hate America so long as a Republican is in office.
The media use these pictures for purely propaganda reasons. Our press is nonetheless completely free.
Hurricane Katrina? WTF? You are kidding right?! They reported nothing but lies! They said that rapes and murders were being committed inside the Superdome. The truth is no such thing happened. They also said that upwards of 20,000 people had died! Nowhere near that amount died! They also tried to lay all the blame on the federal government(read Bush)! The main problem was that the local officials were negligent in their duties and incompetent as hell.
The media use these pictures for purely propaganda reasons. Our press is nonetheless completely free.
Riffy |
| November 7th, 2005 01:05 PM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
Moonisup wrote:
not allowing dead US bodies from the war in Iraq, that was a big thing, a few coffins in a plane, and the whole country went wild.
Hurricane Katrina
And indeed, also in Europe the Governments like to control it, but not in such a big way as in the US
I don't mind that the US government does that, I don't live there, but when people tell that in the US there is more pressfreedom, I just can't let it go!
Rik
[Edited by Moonisup]
You are so wrong and so lost it is beyond reason
Rik, when the US liberated Europe we didn't show pictures of coffins of dead US soldiers coming back. Not the first time but the second time we liberated Europe. WWII. Not WWI but WWII Both times we didn't publish photos of coffins.
And that is not "controlling the news" as you say
It is respect for the families of the fallen
Rik, many European news firms are owned by the government
See the BBC
Not so in the US. Zero. Private firms owned by the public (shareholders). Not one US news firm is owned by the government.
If you didn't have government controlled news outlets in Europe you would know that, but you don't so you don't know
Hurricane Katrina? The the hell are you talking about?
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| November 7th, 2005 01:11 PM |
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| Moonisup |
I understand your reaction, but I don't agree with it! and the fact that the newsmedia aren't owned by the government says nothing about influence in the stations by the Government. The bbc isn't a good example, cos they are not very much influenced by tony Blair and his friends.
But since we disagree this big and won't come together I will not post anymore in this thread, besides that, comparing Europe to the US (and vice verca) is the same as comparing apples to pears (and yes, I did compare them!)
No hard feelings!
Rik |
| November 7th, 2005 01:18 PM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
Moonisup wrote:
I understand your reaction, but I don't agree with it! and the fact that the newsmedia aren't owned by the government says nothing about influence in the stations by the Government. The bbc isn't a good example, cos they are not very much influenced by tony Blair and his friends.
But since we disagree this big and won't come together I will not post anymore in this thread, besides that, comparing Europe to the US (and vice verca) is the same as comparing apples to pears (and yes, I did compare them!)
No hard feelings!
Rik
Rik....
Can we just agree that Chuck Levell is the force of evil in the modern world, controls the news, The Stones and is basically responsible for all that is wrong with the world?
BTW where is jb?
Your buddy
tele |
| November 7th, 2005 02:03 PM |
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| Monkey Woman |
Worth noting: we shouldn't confuse government owned news stations, as they exist in Europe, with propaganda tools like the Pravda in old USSR!
The fact that a government agency owns a news stations bears very little relationship to the content of the news broadcasted by said station. Or, by the same line of reasoning, you would have to say you can't have reliable economic info from a TV channel owned by a private corporation, since any news about the stock exchange, the competition, etc., is bound to affect the owner of the news station... 
And I resent the racist and xenophobic talk of some, here and elsewhere. I'm very concerned because we are getting it from local politicians here too... When I hear and read "throw out the Arabs out of France and you'll have peace", coming from some American media (and some people on this board), I'm afraid because the local politicians who are saying this are openly racist. Maybe you remember the name Le Pen, the guy who came second in last presidential election? He doesn't hide his racist and antisemitic opinions anymore. This guy is Petain's understudy! And if we follow Fox News prescriptions, we would put his ideas in action... Then it would be a real civil war.
It's appalling. It's just not true that the immigrants are the problem. I'm the grand-daughter of a non-European immigrant. One of my sisters' boyfriend is a muslim from Tunisia. Everybody here has collegues or neighbours or friends who are of African or Middle-Eastern descent, and they are decent, ordinary people. It's a minority of stupid kids who are egging each other on who sour it for everybody. The governments, since thirty years, haven't done enough to create jobs, and now we are paying the price. The third world is knocking at the door of every developped, industrialized country and we can't escape the fact. What we have to decide is: will we help, and give them a part of what we have, or will we build a barrier and shut ourselves in? But if we choose the second solution, we'll have to live in fear for the rest of our lives, because the third world will break in sooner or later. |
| November 7th, 2005 02:36 PM |
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| telecaster |
[quote]Monkey Woman wrote:
"The fact that a government agency owns a news stations bears very little relationship to the content of the news broadcasted by said station."
Really? Check out TV Havana Cuba. You can't possibly be that ignorant
""And I resent the racist and xenophobic talk of some, here and elsewhere. This guy is Petain's understudy! And if we follow Fox News prescriptions, we would put his ideas in action... Then it would be a real civil war."
Monkey Woman. I challenge you to back up that statement with facts. You can't because it is untrue and you know it
In good old American talk, you are lying
Back it up and I will fly your ass to the US for a Stones show.
I want you to prove your point in front of the entire board
Show the board that you are not a liar and I will pay for your ticket. Not emotion, but facts.
Let all of us know who said that in the "American" media and when and where
You can't
Let all of us know
[Edited by telecaster]
[Edited by telecaster] |
| November 7th, 2005 03:55 PM |
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| the good |
I won't comment on the cause of the riots, because I really just don't know enough about the entire situation, but how on earth can this have gone on for this long? Isn't this like day 12? And Chirac made his first public comments yesterday? Why isn't he deploying the army? |
| November 7th, 2005 04:10 PM |
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| FPM C10 |
Perhaps he had some brush that needed choppin' on his ranch.
Hope he at least flew over the riots to get a closer look.
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| November 7th, 2005 04:26 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Monkey Woman wrote:
And I resent the racist and xenophobic talk of some, here and elsewhere. I'm very concerned because we are getting it from local politicians here too... When I hear and read "throw out the Arabs out of France and you'll have peace", coming from some American media (and some people on this board), I'm afraid because the local politicians who are saying this are openly racist. Maybe you remember the name Le Pen, the guy who came second in last presidential election? He doesn't hide his racist and antisemitic opinions anymore. This guy is Petain's understudy! And if we follow Fox News prescriptions, we would put his ideas in action... Then it would be a real civil war.
MW nobody,least not me,is being racist or xenophobic. But to simply bury your head in the sand and deny that there are radical elements of Islamists in France that are gleefully watching this whole sad affair go down is to be very naive.
There is nothing wrong with saying it out loud. Radical Islam is a problem that the whole world is now facing. It just is!
9/11/01 in the USA? Radical Islam! Theo Van Gogh in Holland? Radical Islam. Bombings in Bali? Radical Islam. Bombings in London tube stations and buses? Radical Islam. Bombings on Spain's rail system? Radical Islam. Attacks inside Isreal for years now? Radical Islam. I could go on and on.
Now I fully agree with you about many Muslims being good and caring people. That's not the point. The point is that imams throughout Europe,North Africa,and the Middle East are teaching hate. They are also recruiting human weapons on a daily basis. They go where the youth are disenfranchised and poor. They have been using this same MO for decades now. France's population is a full 10% foreign born Muslim youth. You think that just maybe that the tentacles of Radical Islam have made their way into these communities? These youth have not been assimilated into the French culture at all. In fact from what I hear many of them show absolutely no desire to do so. That is a very dangerous situation,and there is absolutely nothing wrong in discussing it. To not do so would be naive and to set yourself up for an implosion within these communities. That is exactly what is happening now.
Now politicians all over Europe are taking note of what is happening in France. Germany,the Netherlands,Spain,and even that oh so neutral state Switzerland are all watching these riots very closely.
By the way your assertion the Fox News is full of bigotry and xenophobes is absurd.
Riffhard
PS-oh yeah,everyone knew Le Pen was a racist. Even Fox News reported that! LOL! |
| November 7th, 2005 04:38 PM |
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| Moonisup |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Rik....
Can we just agree that Chuck Levell is the force of evil in the modern world, controls the news, The Stones and is basically responsible for all that is wrong with the world?
BTW where is jb?
Your buddy
tele
yes! haha.
Don't know where Josh is, I think he got hit hard by the last hurricane |
| November 7th, 2005 06:44 PM |
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| glencar |
I spoke to Joshy today. He's till recovering from the storm damage & he is tremendously busy. He doesn't have time to post here right now but he hopes to be back soon.
I'm not sure how it's racist or xenophobic to point out that radical Muslims are what started these riots. One would have to be a sanded ostrich to deny same. Or just remarkably ill-informed... |
| November 7th, 2005 08:35 PM |
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| justforyou |
Radical muslims again ?
They can feed on the suffering, but did they create the suffering situation ? ie. the premises for the discontent that has gripped many towns ? |
| November 8th, 2005 06:56 AM |
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| Doxa |
Jesus Christ, there seems to convictions and arguments here that would make Hiltler or Göbbels look sound and consistent.
Taken now that we all know what the "evil" is...okay...So, what should "we" all white, Christian, ethno-European, Western citizens do now to feel a bit more "safe"? Buy guns and kill all the muslims? Bomb Teheran? The suburbs of Paris?
Hmm.. I think I somehow grasp now what Jagger has in his mind while writing "Sweet Neo-Con". Great exemplars here!
- Doxa
[Edited by Doxa] |
| November 8th, 2005 07:29 AM |
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| lotsajizz |
don't blame all Americans.....many in the US, especially most US Stones fans, are not as illustrated by certain posters |
| November 8th, 2005 07:38 AM |
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| RedLight |
The French will hold onto their illusions and delusions until the evil REALITY finally forces them to confront the inescapable truth: if you want muzzies to behave, you must either kill them until they're gone, or until they wise up.
Sorry to bring you the awful truth. |
| November 8th, 2005 07:42 AM |
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| lotsajizz |
a lot of people in the past have held such views towards those religionists from the Near East region....hmmmmm
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| November 8th, 2005 07:47 AM |
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| Doxa |
lotsajizz, don't worry, I won't! Not all Germans were nazis in the 1930's nor all the Europeans or French are anti-Americans nowadays, and I am not very anti-Russian, even though I am a Finn...  Few posters here make it quite clear the political agenda they represent, and no way it is shared by the majority of their fellow countrymen not just here but elsewhere too - fortunately!
But despite that it makes me shivers to read some stuff here...
- Doxa |
| November 8th, 2005 09:10 AM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Doxa wrote:
lotsajizz, don't worry, I won't! Not all Germans were nazis in the 1930's nor all the Europeans or French are anti-Americans nowadays, and I am not very anti-Russian, even though I am a Finn... Few posters here make it quite clear the political agenda they represent, and no way it is shared by the majority of their fellow countrymen not just here but elsewhere too - fortunately!
But despite that it makes me shivers to read some stuff here...
- Doxa
I don't know what you're trying to say here,but I can only imagine that you're trying to say that people,like myself,that see a very real problem with the rise of radical Islam are somehow in your warped sense of a worldveiw the equivilant of Nazis. That is bullshit of the absolute highest order!! I am disgusted that you would even begin to equate people that simply notice exactly what the fuck is going on in the world as nazis.
Doxa are you so naive that you don't think that Islamists are causing problems worldwide?!?!? Or are you one of those ignorant types that blame eveything on the "mean" people that are forcing these radical fucks to fly planes into buildings,behead innocent people,bomb nightclubs full of civilians,bomb trains in Spain,blow up buses and tube stations in London,blow up pizzerias in Israel,and on and on and on. It's not the terrorists fault! Couldn't be!
Who the hell do you think you are? No one here is even close to thinking the way nazis did! That is utter bullshit,and you should damned well know it! Make excuses for these poor disenfranchised people all you want,but until you have had a friend or family member killed in the name of jihad and allah don't you dare fucking pass judgement on me!
As of last night over 300 towns inside France are seing riots break out. It has now spread to Belgium and Germany. I suppose the civilians of these towns brought this shit on themselves,huh?! Get real! Pull your head out of the sand Doxa! The open door immigration policy combinded with no assimilation into their newly adopted countrys is exactly what has led to this shit. To deny that,or to try and blame people for bringing up the blatantly obvious is beyond ignorant. It's blind!
Not one person here is casting any dispersions on good Muslims. Yet I have yet to see one European Muslim cleric denounce this shit! Have you? Where are they? Why are they not shouting from the rooftops,"You are trying to highjack a great religion and we won't let you!"
You are quick to pass judgement onn people that are mearly stating the obvious. Meanwhile Paris and all points in between burn,and you refuse to see that radical imams from North Africa to the Middle East are gleefully rubbing their hands together and chanting Alah Akbar as your way of life burns to cinders.
Call me a nazi? I won't even respond the way that that comment deserves!
Perhaps you should read a little history about Islamic terror of the last thirty years and see if you're smart enough to see the pattern that is painfully obvious for those that have the balls to say it out loud.
Riffhard |
| November 8th, 2005 09:45 AM |
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| Mathijs |
>>
There is nothing wrong with saying it out loud. Radical Islam is a problem that the whole world is now facing. It just is!
9/11/01 in the USA? Radical Islam! Theo Van Gogh in Holland? Radical Islam. Bombings in Bali? Radical Islam. Bombings in London tube stations and buses? Radical Islam. Bombings on Spain's rail system? Radical Islam. Attacks inside Isreal for years now? Radical Islam. I could go on and on.
>>
I don't disagree with you: radiocal Islam is a problem the world is facing nowadays. But: it is not one the the causes of the riots in Paris. It just simply isn't. Of course, when the riots started the entire media immediatly headed towards that conclusion, but as it turns out now it isn't the cause. The main cause turns out tbe be the unemployment rates of the last 30 years, which never seem to change. For 99% of the people living in those neighbourhoods, the future doesn't hold anything else than being unempleyed. And despite promises by the government of the last 20 years, not one more job was created. It's this situation that started the riots. The riots in Detroit and Chicago in the late 60's were because of the situation the African-Americans were in, not because they were black or muslim.
And about thre press in the US: we all know that the US and most Western-European countries have the most open press in the world. Everything can and will be discussed, and almost nothing is hidden by the government (except when a country is in war, which the US is). The times I have been in the US I did notice that to me it seemed that most of the American news is more local news than national or even international news, and I did find true information sometimes hard to find, unless you read some high profile mags or papers like the New York Times everyday (which I don't). It is my very own opinion, not fact, that I found some of the Americans I speak with sometimes a little ill-informed. They seem to know what the government told them, and then seem to react with a "don't confuse me with facts, I already made up my mind" mentality. My very personal feeling is that what the government tells you is sometimes not the truth, but is being told with a political meaning. The fact that dead bodies of American soldiers are not shown on TV has a political meaning, as the government knows the public will not respond very positively (the Dutch TV did show images of killed Dutch soldiers btw). Another example is the discussion about invading Iraq. The discussion in the US was much more in the "why we should go" vein, while here in Holland it was "we don't know if we should go" vein. My guess is this could be one of the reasons that the amount of people in Holland who were against the war did not considerably grow in the last year (the majority is against it), but in the US it really did grow from a minority to a majority.
Of course, my personal judgements are based solely upon visiting the US for in total 2 months, I never lived in the US.
Mathijs
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| November 8th, 2005 09:48 AM |
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| justforyou |
Riffhard, you're like a battleship sending in salvoes, causing lots of collatoral damage, loyally following your commander. You also seem overly concerned about how the 'radical fucks' are feeling, and how these worrying events in France are making them feel better.
And why keep mentioning open door policy ? The doors are quite closed at this time. Besides, there are already large communities of different cultures living in Europe.
Assimilation - yes, that has not happened. But, what can we expect ? It's bound to take generations.
Muslim clerics have indeed denounced the rioting, check your sources.
Al Jassa Fur Youssif |
| November 8th, 2005 09:58 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
The terms "radical Islam" or "extremist Islam" contain redundancies. George Walker Bush III was wrong, as usual, when he for some bizarre reason declared that Islam was a "religion of peace." It is not a religion of peace. Islam on its face is a dangerous mentality thats core philosophy states, much like German nationalism/pride does, that certain other human beings are inferior and measures should be taken to ensure their discontinued existence.
Islam runs in a completely different direction than the philosophies of the free, secularly goverend societies that the great Western democracies have evolved into. Ironically, by their very nature, those Western democracies must to a large degree tolerate Islam, even though the goal of that religion/mentality is to essentially destroy them. I think thats where people get tripped up, the inherent "unfairness" of the situation, even though they should be able to reconcile that pretty easily -- the greater good requires that unless a crime has been committed, you are free to believe and pontificate whatever fucked up lunacy, such as Islam, that you want. Hell, you're even free to believe its a religion of peace if you're that fucking stupid. |
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