|
|
| Nasty Habits |
Interesting thread - for NERDS! The semantics of greatness and all that rhythm.
Happily, I am a nerd, so I can join in.
In the final analysis, I think that ONNYA is a good rock and roll song, and that a good rock and roll song is a great thing.
Just out of curiosity, SS - what do you think the last truly great Stones song is? I have a few ideas about this, but want to hear your take on it first.
|
|
|
| Gazza |
quote:
Glimmer Twin wrote:
Well, I love ONNYA. A fine song off an outstanding album. I get a kick out of these lyrics:
Everybody's talking
Showing up their wits
The moon is yellow but I'm like jello
Staring down your tits
Each to their own. Personally, I think that's the most idiotic and inane lyrical couplet of the Stones' entire career. It amazes me that it's the work of a) an acclaimed songwriter and b) someone who's 61 years of age, and not a child of about twelve.
The rest of the song is decent enough (musically good, lyrically nothing special) but that part of it is absolutely hideous and embarrassing.
[Edited by Gazza] |
|
|
| Gazza |
quote:
MikeyC613 wrote:
Mick could have written those lyrics in a 5-block cab ride on his way to do some blow back in 1978.
More like 1958. |
|
|
| speedfreakjive |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Each to their own. Personally, I think that's the most idiotic and inane lyrical couplet of the Stones' entire career. It amazes me that it's the work of a) an acclaimed songwriter and b) someone who's 61 years of age, and not a child of about twelve.
The rest of the song is decent enough (musically good, lyrically nothing special) but that part of it is absolutely hideous and embarrassing.
[Edited by Gazza]
yeah, it is very silly, innapropriate and embarassing to boot. But the lyric in LIND "I lost my direction, and I lost my home" is also shite, Jagger doesn't often write about his own personal crises, so I assume its 3rd person. Listening to Mick Jagger singing that with about as much effort and conviction as my little sister is a bit rich, not to mention credibility eroding.
[Edited by speedfreakjive] |
|
|
| Sir Stonesalot |
Hmmmm...
Innerestin' question.
I was tempted to say Out of Control or Saint of Me...but decided that those songs are not actually great, just good.
Then I was tempted to say Love Is Strong...but that is a better video than a song...so it isn't actually great either.
I skipped Steel Wheels.
That took me to Dirty Work....and One Hit(To The Body). That is my answer. That song stands up well with the rest of The Stones back catalogue, IMO, even though Jimmy Page is on it.
So there ya go. Last really great Stones song is One Hit. IMO...whatever that's worth. |
|
|
| Gazza |
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:
yeah, it is very silly, innapropriate and embarassing to boot. But the lyric in LIND "I lost my direction, and I lost my home" is also shite, Jagger doesn't often write about his own personal crises, so I assume its 3rd person. Listening to Mick Jagger singing that with about as much effort and conviction as my little sister is a bit rich, not to mention credibility eroding.
"Laugh I Nearly Died" was written for 'Alfie' (but presumably wasnt completed in time), which would probably explain why it's written in the first person
(BTW - He DID lose his home in his divorce settlement..LOL..well, one of them anyway)
[Edited by Gazza] |
|
|
| speedfreakjive |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
"Laugh I Nearly Died" was written for 'Alfie' (but presumably wasnt completed in time), which would probably explain why it's written in the first person
(BTW - He DID lose his home in his divorce settlement..LOL..well, one of them anyway)
[Edited by Gazza]
slick production, Michael Jackson's 'Dangerous' style |
|
|
| Nasty Habits |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Hmmmm...
Innerestin' question.
I was tempted to say Out of Control or Saint of Me...but decided that those songs are not actually great, just good.
Then I was tempted to say Love Is Strong...but that is a better video than a song...so it isn't actually great either.
I skipped Steel Wheels.
That took me to Dirty Work....and One Hit(To The Body). That is my answer. That song stands up well with the rest of The Stones back catalogue, IMO, even though Jimmy Page is on it.
So there ya go. Last really great Stones song is One Hit. IMO...whatever that's worth.
Yeah . . . Out of Control & Saint of Me are a conundrum. They were GREAT concert songs, but neither one is "great" in its B2B incarnation. I suspect that either one's greatness could be seriously challenged. OOC's overobvious shouty chorus, Saint of Me's disastrous lack of Keith in the studio. But I will, seriously, listen either one live over and over. Maybe they're great on No Security. Anyway, the fact that they're the only two songs on the last four studio albums that really really worked like motherfuckers live is generally my reasoning for considering Bridges the best of the RS,INC LPs.
It always gets back to Dirty Work, which to me has three great songs - OHTTB, DW, and HIWY. But for me the best is Had It with You, which I think is Exile good. That song is evil and I think fulfills every last one of of Blooze's "bullet" points.
|
|
|
| Sir Stonesalot |
Ooooooooooo...yeah....Had It With You is the bee's knees...if bees actually have knees.
I think the thing that both HIWY and OHTTB share, that make them really great, is the poison...the venom, if you will, in the delivery of those songs. There is palpable danger in those songs...and that makes them very exciting, IMO. They draw you in like moths to a flame.
ONNYA sounds tame and phoney baloney compared to either of those monsters.
Oh, BTW....I don't hate, or even dislike, ONNYA...it has it's merits. But not enough merit to warrant a "great". IMO. |
|
|
| speedfreakjive |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Ooooooooooo...yeah....Had It With You is the bee's knees...if bees actually have knees.
I think the thing that both HIWY and OHTTB share, that make them really great, is the poison...the venom, if you will, in the delivery of those songs. There is palpable danger in those songs...and that makes them very exciting, IMO. They draw you in like moths to a flame.
ONNYA sounds tame and phoney baloney compared to either of those monsters.
Oh, BTW....I don't hate, or even dislike, ONNYA...it has it's merits. But not enough merit to warrant a "great". IMO.
Dangerous Beauty is better than ONNYA |
|
|
| Mel Belli |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
"Laugh I Nearly Died" was written for 'Alfie'
Really? Did Mick mention that in an interview?...
[Edited by Mel Belli] |
|
|
| Nasty Habits |
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:
Dangerous Beauty is better than ONNYA
By FAR. Even if it does kind of sound like Warrant or something.
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Ooooooooooo...yeah....Had It With You is the bee's knees...if bees actually have knees.
I think the thing that both HIWY and OHTTB share, that make them really great, is the poison...the venom, if you will, in the delivery of those songs. There is palpable danger in those songs...and that makes them very exciting, IMO. They draw you in like moths to a flame.
ONNYA sounds tame and phoney baloney compared to either of those monsters.
You're quite right, and what sucks about so much Stones material written since they became the Biggest Show on Earth is that it sounds entirely hypothetical and lacks any grounding in reality. I don't really believe that Mick means that much about ONNYA (except for maybe the line about the tits) so as entertainingly played, sung, and as raunchily unarranged as it is (Keith's sudden halfassed ending to his solo is the best!) it doesn't have the same wild sense of conviction of the Dirty Work songs. I mean, you can say what you will about Dirty Work, but they MEAN that shit. They really truly hate each others' guts and you can feel it, and at the same time, somewhere in there everyone knows that they're stuck with each other. "Oh your love is just sweet addiction, I can't clean you out of my veins." That is INTENSE.
But you know, ultimately, what makes a great band great is that they can take material that is not, you know, objectively great and make it sound pretty goddamn good and maybe even great. That is the skill of the Stones, Dylan, Beatles. Play the living daylights out of some bit of nothing and it will sound great.
On other matters, I'm sorry, but "There's a swish in your step/there's a gleam in your eye/are you wearing your hair/with a new kind of dye" or whatever is so much more embarassing and ghey than the oft mentioned "TITS" line I can't even get my head around it.
Worse than sharks! Worse than the turkey! Worse than the tits! Worse than creasing your butt! BAD! |
|
|
| aladdinstory |
i like ONNYA, it rocks, has more than modicum of that vintage late 70s slightly punked up swagger a la Respectable (maybe they each did a line for ole times sake before performing it), plus keith tears off a nice Berry-inspired solo (when was the last time he did that on record? Mean Disposition perhaps).
As for lyrics, IMHO, with a few exceptions, Mick's have been strictly pedestrian on Stones rockers since SW.
there's no question the last classic Stones song was "Don't Stop"!
what a dreamy lil number that was...
[Edited by aladdinstory] |
|
|
| mrhipfl |
quote:
aladdinstory wrote:
i like the song, it rocks, has more than modicum of that vintage late 70s slightly punked up swagger a la Respectable (maybe they each did a line for ole times sake before performing it), plus keith tears off a nice Berry-inspired solo (when was the last time he did that on record? Mean Disposition perhaps).
I was so disappointed when I first heard the solo. It could have been such a great rock solo but instead turned out to be way too short. That's one thing I don't like about ABB. The solos for the most part are short and bland and are only there to fill some space in the song... |
|
|
| twicks1 |
Sorry, but I still think "Oh No" achieves greatness.
That crisp drumroll intro...the nasty guitar tone...a classic, leering Jagger vocal...the careening Keith solo.
Plus, it's set up perfectly on the album with Keith's tender "This Place Is Empty," seguing into the equally nasty "Dangerous Beauty."
Yes...greatness. |
|
|
| pdog |
quote:
aladdinstory wrote:
there's no question the last classic Stones song was "Don't Stop"!
what a dreamy lil number that was...
[Edited by aladdinstory]
Not a great song, it was what I hoped ABB was going to be alot more like... |
|
|
| Bitch |
Oh No Not You Again
Ok I was at the May 10 Press Conference when they rolled this song out for the first time, and let me tell you, I was so fvcking blown away with this song! The rush of intensity, banging drums, twanging guitars and amusing lyrics got me rocking!!
Only MICK could get away with singing FUCKING UP MY LIFE in front of hundreds of TV cameras and radio stations who were streaming it live, it was so fvcking funny, the stations were scrambling around, no one was expecting the F word in the lyrics! MICK and KEEF were having a blast with this, I think they enjoyed shocking the crowd, and it was very clever!
Oh No Not You Again! FUCKING UP MY LIFE! It was bad the first time, better take my own advice!
It's so tounge-in-cheek! |
|
|
| stonedinaustralia |
Nassty - SS
agree the last great stones song as a "Stones" song per se would be off DW and for mine i would pick DW itself (particularly considering bloozie's criteria)- but HIWY is almost its equal - as you say Nasty after DW you can tell they just don't really mean it - indeed as keith finally conceeded on B2B - you don't have to mean it - ( a sentiment that i didn't expect to hear from keith
as far as the last great stones song that was a great "song" then hands down - without question - slipping away - a masterpiece example of the art of songwriting but not, of course, a great example of the stones rocking "greatness"
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
|
|
| aladdinstory |
umm, i really don't care for don't stop, that was a bit of tongue in cheek sarcasm. in fact none of those "new" forty licks tracks did anything for me. ABB was a definite improvement over those.
it seems in retrospect, even with its flaws, DW eclipses that which followed. i've always liked it and the title track is a definite hidden gem.
Slipping Away, could very well be the last great stones song. the last great Stones rocker though is probably found on DW, however, IMHO though the underappreciated Gunface deserves some consideration.
|
|
|
| mrhipfl |
quote:
Bitch wrote:
Oh No Not You Again
Ok I was at the May 10 Press Conference when they rolled this song out for the first time, and let me tell you, I was so fvcking blown away with this song! The rush of intensity, banging drums, twanging guitars and amusing lyrics got me rocking!!
Only MICK could get away with singing FUCKING UP MY LIFE in front of hundreds of TV cameras and radio stations who were streaming it live, it was so fvcking funny, the stations were scrambling around, no one was expecting the F word in the lyrics! MICK and KEEF were having a blast with this, I think they enjoyed shocking the crowd, and it was very clever!
Oh No Not You Again! FUCKING UP MY LIFE! It was bad the first time, better take my own advice!
It's so tounge-in-cheek!
I remember seeing that press conference on youtube. It was the best live version I heard of the song. |
|
|
| pdog |
I remember watching it online and they cut it off midway into the songs...
I was so pissed. So much, I went to see them 6 times during the tour... Make that seven, only paid for 6. |
|
|
| Gazza |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
Really? Did Mick mention that in an interview?...
Yes..he mentioned it when interviewed for BBC Radio around the time of the Twickenham shows last August.
I always got the impression 'Biggest Mistake' sounded like it could have been written for 'Alfie' as well, but thats just my own personal opinion. |
|
|
| Nasty Habits |
You make an extremely good case, SIA. Really great lyrics, beautiful bridge, never suffering from the 'I am a songwriter plying my trade' Mick tendencies or the improvisatory vagueness of later Keith tunes. Craft + conviction, beauty + bile. TOTAL Stonesness. Without doubt the finest Keith album closer.
Gunface is cool but the problem I've always had with it is that it's such an obvious rewrite of "Mother of a Man".
twicks, I definitely agree that the one two from Oh No to Dangerous is the best part of ABB.
[Edited by Nasty Habits] |
|
|
| Sir Stonesalot |
Yeah, Slipping Away.
I thought we were talking about rock n roll type songs. I didn't even consider the ballads.
As a general rule of thumb, I don't care much for ballads. I fucking hate power ballads. The only thing I hate worse than a power ballad are those awful songs by those overwrought warbley voiced fucktards like Celine Dion and her ilk. I'm not much on sweetness and sentimentality when it comes to music. I guess that comes from cutting my teeth on Punk Rock.
So that probably colored my choice a bit. |
|
|
| Nasty Habits |
We were talking about rockers.
But I think that we both discovered rooting around thru the Stones post DW library that genuinely "GREAT" rockers, by our particular exacting criteria, were in short supply.
I always forget about Slipping Away, too.
By this way of thinking, the question gets begged: Even if not great, what is the best out-and-out rocker of the post-DW era?
ONNYA?
RJ?
FTS?
Too Tight?
I's conflicted.
|
|
|
| GotToRollMe |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
We were talking about rockers.
But I think that we both discovered rooting around thru the Stones post DW library that genuinely "GREAT" rockers, by our particular exacting criteria, were in short supply.
I always forget about Slipping Away, too.
By this way of thinking, the question gets begged: Even if not great, what is the best out-and-out rocker of the post-DW era?
ONNYA?
RJ?
FTS?
Too Tight?
I's conflicted.
That's pretty much what I meant when I referred to ONNYA as a "classic rocker." Not classic in the "highest quality" sense, but more in the "basic, fundamental" sense of the word. And I love how it sounds like Charlie is banging away on a couple of garbage cans near the end.
|
|
|
| speedfreakjive |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
We were talking about rockers.
But I think that we both discovered rooting around thru the Stones post DW library that genuinely "GREAT" rockers, by our particular exacting criteria, were in short supply.
I always forget about Slipping Away, too.
By this way of thinking, the question gets begged: Even if not great, what is the best out-and-out rocker of the post-DW era?
ONNYA?
RJ?
FTS?
Too Tight?
I's conflicted.
I Go Wild |
|
|
| twicks1 |
Ahh...I had forgotten about Too Tight for a minute there.
Delicious little number. I remember playing it for a friend in the car. His eyes got real wide when the drums crashed in, and said "THIS is the Rolling Stones?" |
|
|
| polytoxic |
quote:
Bloozehound wrote:
In order to be a great rocker it's gotta pass the GRRCC: Great Rocker Rules of Conduct Code, in other words it's gotta similtanously inspire 3 or more of the following types of conduct: make you slam on the gas and drive 110 mph, sustain off nothing but tequila poppers and limes(jack and coke is a suitable alternative), take guns to knife fights, smash empty beer bottles against walls and eat live scorpions, set yourself on fire and ram your head through a TV set, get butt nakid and shoot all the windows out of your house with a shotgun, sell your soul to the devil, snort coke off you wife's tits and plug her in the ass
Wow. that post makes me want to crank Stray Cat Blues so loud the old folks' home two blocks down the road will have ambulances pulling up to it like a taxi stand. |
|
|
| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
twicks1 wrote:
Ahh...I had forgotten about Too Tight for a minute there.
Delicious little number. I remember playing it for a friend in the car. His eyes got real wide when the drums crashed in, and said "THIS is the Rolling Stones?"
yes i'd say TT the best of post DW it is indeed "the rolling stones"
its equal tho to me is "can't be seen" it rocks - it rolls - a slight touch of the wicked funk - it has a cool riff - nice solo - nice harmonies on the bridge -some great humour - (i can't sleep with you ...i'd always be awake!!) - keith sings it with something approaching conviction or something that sounds a lot like it
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
|
