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| F505 |
yeah sir stonesalot you are GOD and when your disciples don't agree with your almighty opinion they're full of shit. You act if you have the exclusive rights on this board. Learn to read first. The first post of this topic was mine. I made two critical remarks and THREE positive ones. You only focus on the negative ones and repeat them over and over again. So who is negative anyway? In spite of my criticism I love the Stones and I won't let it upset by someone hidden in a rusty armour.
[Edited by F505] |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
I have to confess....
I quite frequently put on a white lab coat, rubber gloves and safety googles and listen to the Stones.
Oh yeah.
I walk around the basement with a clipboard jotting down the odd statistic or comment while beakers and test tubes bubble away behind me.
I'm a Stonesologist.
I can't help it.
Prof. Maxy!
you know, it's funny max...that's how i always pictured you...
keep up the good work!!
do you taste the samples from the beakers and tubes?? - if so (and i hope so), i'd love to read the notes...perhaps i already am!!
as for the argument the thrust of this thread, well, i'll have some hard empirical evidence to contribute and hopefully a coherent argument in about a weeks time...
quickly i say i'm on the team that says cut the talk and play the track
but i,too, am a stonesologist and am driven to the roots of understanding caring not that my search may lead to madness...
HAHHAHAHAHAHAhahaha....
(followed by (natty)dreadful silence)
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
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| Mathijs |
My God Stonesalot, the Stones aren�t a religion! This discussion is meaningless now, as you react like I am telling a Mormon God doesn�t exist.
Well. Just to get things straight: I will not argue your opinions, I just want to speak out my mind.
Yes, I am an enormous fan (almost obsessed) with the 1968 � 1986 Rolling Stones. I indeed do think that the Stones should have stopped when Wyman left, as their live shows really got terrible. However, my obsession with the old Stones is still so alive and present, that I still consider a Stones show one of the greatest experiences possible. But, this great experience is diminishing for me and I do think that the Stones are on a declining slope since 1995. The Voodoo Lounge Tour I mostly avoided, as I couldn�t stand the size of the shows and the absence of Keith�s guitar. Then came the B2B tour. I have always enjoyed the first half of a B2B show, I did and still do think that the first half really rocked, with new songs like Flip The Switch, Saint of me, Out Of Control, and an excellent B-stage portion with rocking rarities like Crazy Mama and I just Want To make Love To You. But after the B-stage the show was over for me. In 1999 I even visited the US just to see two NS shows. I had and still have mixed feelings about those show. It was great to hear rarities like Some Girls, Moonlight Mile and You Got the Silver, but I also thought that they sounded really bad. Ronnie was completely absent, Keith was losing it, and overall it just didn�t feel right. Now the licks Tour. The Stones started great: real great rocking songs like Hand of fate, If You Can�t Rock Me, Worried About You, Dance, Don�t Look Back and so on, Ronnie was alive and kicking, Jagger was at his best. The only problem to me was Keith, but I thought he just needed some time to warm up. But what is left of it now? Keith is playing worst ever, Ronnie�s back in his cage. The tour has tuned into a Jagger/Leavell show with a Voodoo Lounge set list.
No, I don�t want to spoil your fun. A Stones show is still one of the best things around. Seeing Jagger perform live is still one of the greatest experiences of my life, hearing Charlie�s drum rolls at 200 dB is still one of the biggest thrills. But for me �an adept of the seventies� Stones- the gems are a bit missing. There aren�t any new songs I am longing to hear live (as there were on the B2B tour). There aren�t any real rediscovered gems like Hand of Fate or Dance I am anxious to hear (except for Can�t You Hear Me Knocking). Why should I go see the Stones now? What is the difference between the Licks Tour and the Voodoo Lounge Tour?
I will always be a fan of the Stones, they will always be a bit of an obsession to me. I will too get nervous when they play in Holland. No, I will not go to the large stadium shows, I will only see them at a small arena and three club shows. I will enjoy every minute of these shows, and I can tell you for sure that I will tell everybody after the Astoria show that I just saw the best Stones show I have ever seen in my life. But this time around, I will not listen to the recording of the show. Because just like the Shepherds Bush �it was a hell of a show to watch, but don�t listen to the recording.
Mathijs
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| Maxlugar |
I see your love extends to 1986....
Dirty Work came out in 1986....
Yes, Dirty Work:
The ass kickin'est, balls swaggerin'est, guitar slashin'est, Mick vocal chord rippin'est, Charlie on smackin'est, hard driving rock and rollin'est, Bill Wyman still with the bandin'est, Keith vs Mick hatredin'est, anger oozing through the speakersin'est, Rolling Stones the way Maxy loves themin'est, Summer of '86 improvin'est, car stereo up to 11in'est Rock and Roll record ever made!
You do mean up to and INCLUDING 1986, don't you Mathy?
Let me know.
TIA (Thanks In Advance)
Maxy!
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| Moonisup |
shep's bush is just a bad show, but the atmosphere is great |
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| Mathijs |
To me, the Stones are the real Stones until 1986. In 1986 Ian Stewarts died, and the row between Mick and Keith had its climax then. Ever since then, to me it just never felt the same anymore. And, until 1986 Keith still could really play; listen to his show with jerry Lee Lewis, listen to his Check Berry shows, listen to One Hit and Dirty Work from Dirty Work.
Mathijs |
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| Moonisup |
the cd + video "hail hail rock and roll" is just ART |
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| jb |
1986 is a long time ago Mathjis....at a minimum, the 89 tour must have excited you? |
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| Moonisup |
I honestly think that the Steel wheels tour was to slick due to the fact they had to prove themselves again, and to much matt clifford
rik, |
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| jb |
Yes Moon..but the excitement when they hit the stage for the first time in 8 years was fucking extroadinary..never matched it since.. |
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| Mathijs |
agree with JB -the moment they hit Start Me Up and the fireworks go off, the moment we got the first glimpse of Jagger and Richards, the entire Feijenoord Stadium just literally explodes in a mad frenzy. The exitement of these first 5 minutes isn't surpassed to date -not by the Stones nor by any other band.
Mathijs |
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| F505 |
....as you react like I am telling a Mormon God doesn�t exist...
....no he reacts like he's been told he's not God (who probably doesn't exists at all)... |
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| F505 |
yeah the Feijenoord Kuip experience was the best one I have ever witnessed. It was the first concert of the European tour and the stadium shook to its foundations! |
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| Moonisup |
I never understood why they did not opened since 1990 in holland
[Edited by Moonisup] |
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| marko |
Again,i have to agree with Mathjis,the old stones died
along with Ian Stewart,damn i miss that boogie woogie.Also
mick&keith relationship were never the same again.But i�ve
read an interview from mick where he said,that,when stones
had their hard times in 70ies(end of),they decided to pull
thru up till the end,no matter what happens.But to me voodoo
tour wasn�t jagger/leavell tour,,i can hear very well
actually from any boot.Also agree that BTB was good on those
parts,,,,but some of the warhorses were really draggin,,TD&
HTW were awful(usually),,too slow.But i Licks beats the
BTB tour,theres lot more energy.B-stage was ok,until they
started to play LARS again,,why they can�t drop it,I would
rather hear miss you!12mins of it.Even i like new tour a
lot,,it never matches to my fave,1981-1982 tours. |
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| sandrew |
Mathijs, you know when I really started to worry about Keith's chops on this tour? When I heard "Stray Cat Blues" for the first time, off the Toronto soundboard. Turns out he's playing it in open-G, instead of the way he played it on "Beggars" and "Ya Yas."
I have to wonder about that choice. Could it be that the those easy open-G bar chords are the only way he can do it nowadays? Think about it: When was the last time you've heard Keith play a straight chord progression in standard tuning, a la "Dead Flowers" or "Torn and Frayed"?
Another example from the Toronto soundboard: the intro to "Torn" is done by Mick on acoustic, which sounds way too thin and toothless.
Again, where are those simple cowboy chords? Why does he never fret them anymore? |
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| jb |
Look. it's obvious that age, drugs, and arthritis have taken their toll on his once great playing..but it's still great to hear them play live....just don't listen to the boots and you will enjoy the shows... |
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| Maxlugar |
Mick Jagger has been reaching down deep and giving a few "from the gut" vocals during this tour.
Anyone else notice this?
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| sandrew |
JB, I'm with ya. Short of rocking chairs and farting into the microphone, I will pay to seem them in any condition... |
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| jb |
Listen, I'm not a musician(although I do play a mean recorder)...thus, I am not listening for nor could I tell the difference in terms of what chord Keith is playing in...It's usually so loud, that it hardly matters..it the proverbial wall of sound(where is Phil Spector on 1 million $ bail?) and it sounds dam good....SS copied me discs from 69-2003....I listen to mostly the 72-78 versions...but I was also astonished how great the Stripped Companion and Paradiso shows sounded..and that's long after 1986!!...I have heard no sound boards from this tour..my understanding is that none are available at this time...Thus, I;ll wait and judge for myself....
[Edited by jb] |
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| marko |
JB,thats right,so far NONE soundboard from europe 1995.I
wonder why?theres lots of boots from 94,usa and 95 rest of
the world.And me,i will listen LOTS boots,ad i will enjoy
the shows.And yes,keith has to find easier way to play. |
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| Moonisup |
Paradiso was indeed a cool show! Great versions of most of the songs!
haah you always need to listen to the stones loud, grab a beer and sing along |
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| Stonesthrow |
Mathijs-- What the hell is wrong with 1964-68? |
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| Angiegirl |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
Which is why I am glad you took me up on my advice, AngieGirl! Were you wearing your kookie hat while you danced naked? What did you dance to? These details are quite important!
Well...I used the fanclub hat (quite famous in Holland I must say) to put it on my cat Happy's head and danced naked to I Can't Get No Satisfaction...
I must say it was a liberating feeling, a fantastic advice. Maybe we all ought to do it during a Stones show, that's even more liberating! |
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| CousinCocaine |
I'm a bit tired but I just have to say I'm with Mathijs for a long part of the way. And I'm happy we have people like him with us!
Perhaps it's just that over this really long time of Being Stones different generations of fans have come up with very diff. expectations and backround.
On my part I've always been a huge fan of the rebel Stones. I loved the stormy early Brian years and then the beautiful classic Taylor years were the cream on the top.
Ronnie came at the right time when punk occured but it was already at a late time and somehow to me they slowly started to loose their magical touch and creativity at the end of the 70's.
Of course I still love them,- go to the gigs & everything - and always defend them to people from the outside but there were more and more things I disliked. To be honest I would never have become a fan of the 90's Vegastype Stones machine first.
And of course the playin disintegrates. Keith is now ruinin every second intro and the "Ron is brilliant" is mainly a hype from the boots I heard. The Stones will always be the Stones but that shouldn't mean that they now can ruin many of their great songs. Nobody expects them to play 10 min. solos but at least they should handle their little lead lines. And Keith can't even keep a rhytm down like he used to. He is posing all the time and always the same moves and words for years. He had a lot of time and no solo album and what did he come up with for 40Licks ?! It's getting really dreadful!
Charlie was never in the spotlight and I think he likes it the way we cheer him up now. But the drummin is so steady now - it has become boring to me.
SS, - I think it's a mistake to love everything they do and give them a freeride whatever they do and play.(Of course you can do as you want!)
The Stones always in their history needed pressure. They were always best when there was much critic and pressure on them. Then they came up with great work and a few unsuspected surprises. But these days it's going all too smooth for them. They get whatever they want without really delivering their best.The band themselves often said they didn't like it when fans loved it all while the boys knew they had been real bad.
Think we should give them a wink now and then that they often can do much better.
Now and then the glimmer is still there and I love those rare moments but too often these days they just . .
See You
CC |
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| BILL PERKS |
MAXY-THAT DIRTY WORK TALK MAKES MY NUTS TINGLE.YES THEY SOUNDED BETTER IN MANY WAYS IN THE 70'S BUT THERE IS'NT ANY TOUR WHERE THEY HAVENT GIVEN US MORE THAN OUR MONIES WORTH.I WAS DISAPPOINTED IN SOME OF THE LICKS SETLISTS BUT I AM JUST SO FUCKING THANKFUL THEY ARE STILL WILLING TO GO OUT THERE AND GIVE US THIS CHANCE TO SEE THEM AGAIN.NONE OF THE RECENT TOURS HAVE BEEN PERFECT BUT THE MSG SHOW GAVE ME EVERYTHING I WANTED FROM THEM.NO COASTING,GOOD SETLIST AND TREMENDOUS ENERGY FROM THE WHOLE BAND.IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT PISS OFF AND PUT ON BRUSSELS AFFAIR.MATHY WORSHIPS THE GOLDEN PERIOD OF THE BAND,AS DO I,BUT LIKE MICK SAID "YOUR EITHER DEAD,OR YOU MOVE ALONG" |
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| lonecrapshooter |
thanks Bill, I needed that after another buzz kill from cousin cocaine...maybe he needs to take a shit |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
What?
I'm not God?
That's what you think....plague and locusts on you!
Really F505...you say some of the funniest things!
BTW, Mathy, I was checking out your guitars over in the pictures thread. Very nice. I love the LP. FPM & I did lights for Les Paul once. Nice fellow, very down to earth.
Now about the Stones not being any good. Eh, I'm tired of all this. I doubt we'll ever agree.
This isn't meant in any racist or political way or anything...it's just an observation. Most of the people that took Mathy's side are Europeans, and most of the people who took my side are American.
Perhaps there is a fundemental difference in the way we look at things? Is there something in out cultural upbringing that predisposes us to see things in a certain light? Are Europeans more predisposed to be critical and analytical? Are Yanks more predisposed to be more accepting and instinctual?
Interesting.
Well, it's my opinion that there is nothing wrong with the Licks version Stones. I'll never change my mind about it. You think the current Stones suck. Nothing I say will change your mind. I guess we'll just leave it at that.
I really feel pity for you folks that can't just accept the current version of the Rolling Stones, and simply enjoy them. It's a lot of fun.
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| F505 |
SS wrote:
Are Europeans more predisposed to be critical and analytical? Are Yanks more predisposed to be more accepting and instinctual?
Well now Sir Stonesalot you're finally talking sense! You hit the nail on the head! I think this discussion can be explained by a different attitude. Europeans and "Yanks" alike, are devoted fans in their own way. |
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| marko |
Oh guys.....i just got chicago-03 shows,and i must tell,what
an off night(first show),i can hear keith only beginning of
each song.I hear more chuck&horns,,charlie is damn loud.
Quality of the recording is very nice,but show,just awful.
It is really,and please don�t tell me its the recording.
It wasn�t the case in last year!I just went thru Vegas MGM
show,i heard guitars very well...i guess must test the 2nd
chicago nite,,to made up my mind,,,hopefully better one. |
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