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| F505 |
after hearing many boots of the american licks tour imo mick is THE man of this tour. Not Keith (he plays very perfunctory: where is his ardour?) and not Ron (still can�t convince my with his solo�s: i liked ronnie in the 1975-1981era). Mick is in great shape (voice, harmonica) and deserves more devotion from ron and keith. Think the band deserves a compliment for playing so many �unknown� jewels from their treasury. It�s great to hear songs like Worried about You, Dance Part 1, She smiled Sweetly, Ain�t too proud to beg, Torned and Frayed and all those other classics. But it would have been more fun when keith and ron were sharp as knives. Sometimes they have their moments but they sound too often doing a routine job. Charlie ofcourse is above all suspicion. |
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| luxury1 |
Hear, hear, buddy. I agree. |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
No doubt about it. Mick's doing something right, because his voice has been consistantly *on* every show.
Ronnie is slowly but surely getting back into his old groove - compare "All Down The Line" from Roseland '02, a little lackluster to Boston '03, kicking like it's trying to get out of his guitar and down your throat.
As the '03 boots start to come in, you'll hear Keith's fire coming back to him. He's taking more solos and in general playing more. In '02 there were a lot of songs where it felt like "half a weave", either Keith or Ronnie picking up for each other, but leaving the song feeling empty (Again at Roseland, "You Got Me Rocking" with Ronnie's solo very good but unbalanced - compare to Boston '03 and then on out where the weave is dead on), and it was actually, for the first time ever, Ronnie doing a lot of the work, meaning he had to actually tone down that kinda choppy high-chord style to compensate for the fact that Keith was just standing there. Maybe the yelling arguements Keith and Ronnie started having onstage towards the end of '02 changed his mind or maybe Keith joined a tree or something and realized for himself that he wasn't playing up to scratch, because now he's back and more Keithly than ever.
I think Europe's going to get the best shows out of this deal. '02 was like an awesome test run - lots of kinks in the machine to work out. '03 was like the speedup on the runway... you Aussies are destined for one hell of a time, and I'll be drooling over the boots from your shows, I'm sure. As for you Nederlanders... damn, I wish I could be there for your shows. They'll be in overdrive over there.
-tSYX --- Like a thief in the niiiiiight... |
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| lucasd4 |
I've been very critical of Keith's playing for over 20 years now.....I feel he's been coasting and posing more than he's been playing....but I'm very impressed with his playing on this tour--especially the 2003 shows....he's been playing with an intensity not seen since '78, at least....of course, I'm talking about his rhythm work, which is all I really care about with the Stones guitar sound....as long as he's laying that rhythm down, I could care less about his or Ronnie's solos
[Edited by lucasd4] |
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| Mathijs |
IMHO:
1) Jagger should be scientifically examined: it is not human to sound so good when you're almost 60 years old.
2) Keith has lost it completely. On the HBO show I found his playing to be horrible: forgetting chords -or playing the wrong ones- on songs like If You can't Rock Me and CYHMK, playing really bad lead lines (almost off-key). Worse, on tracks like When The Whip Comes Down Keith's not doing the main riff, but he's taking a 5 minute solo. Woody's not doing anything, so this guitar track has tuned into a shambly Chuck Leavell track. Also: Keith's is repeating himself now for the last 10 years: "godd to be any where" and "let the tigers out". Come on Keith...
3) Ronnie is finally playing again, and allthough it's a mere shade of his 75 - 82 work, it's good to have him filling up some gaps. He's still inaudible for half the show, but when you hear him it's nice. But, his solo on CYHMK is still a very bad attempt to sound like Taylor.
4) Charlie is drumming like he's been playing for the last 12 years. Steady, solid, loud, but actually quite boring. He has lost the inventive touch he had from 75 until 86.
5) Daryl should be fired. Compare his Status Quo bass line of Let It Bleed from the HBO show with Hampton 81 -and you'll understand why Daryl is the worst bass player for the Stones. Let Blondie play the bass.
6) Chuck Leavell. I just hate his happy piano lines. It has nothing to do with R&R piano in the sence that Ian Mclagan and Stu could play. There's always some pop influence with Chuck's playing. And Chuck: Midnight Rambler is NOT a piano driven song.
So, all in all, I stand by my opinion: the Stones should have called it quits in 1993 when Bill Wyman left. For the last 10 years the Stones are offering nothing new. It's all more of the same, and unfortunatly due to Keith, it's getting worse and worse.
Mathijs
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| jb |
Agree with 2, 5, and 6. However, I am still happy they are touring mathjis..I trust after seeing them, you also will be. |
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| T&A |
I agree with some of the sentiments here. However, one shouldn't be too hasty to judge based on the HBO show alone. It was not a good night for either Ron or Keith, unfortunately. I have seen them before and since and Keith has not "lost it" as posted above. Ronnie is definitely playing better than he has in 2 decades, but apparently will never regain the form of his hey-day. Still, I'll take what we're getting from Woody now and be happy with it.
Regarding Mick - the comments are spot on. Mick has NEVER been as sharp as he is now - that's not humanly possible.
It would have been nice had they loosened up the setlist a bit more - but, on balance, you can hardly expect more than we got during the US tour....of course, we'll always complain and about the coulda/shoulda's.... |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
I think some of you should quit huffing gas. It's frying your brain cells.
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| marko |
LOL! |
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| telecaster |
quote:
jb wrote:
Agree with 2, 5, and 6. However, I am still happy they are touring mathjis..I trust after seeing them, you also will be.
JB is on fire this year with his posts. No one goes to see Keith light up the guitar, people go to see what Keith does
best and the greatest rock show in history.
Quit dissecting and enjoy while you can |
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| Scottfree |
I find myself being overly critical as well, but I look at it like my golf game (which I suck). I have shot well before I have made shots that I miss, it just seems as though I can never put it all together. That is the way I feel about the Stones. Take Gimmie Shelter in its many forms, if I could just fuse together some of the old Mick T. with some of Paradiso version, or even St. Louis 97, it would be perfection (imho). I just sit there and listen to these blokes and say damn what are they doing why didn't they do this, or how did they miss that. That being said, I'm damned glad the boys are still playing, and am always happy for an occassional well played gem.
Yours truly,
Scottfree |
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| L&A |
I always like to read your intelligent critics, Mathijs. I agree 100%. It seems you are a qualified musician. Is it ? |
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| jb |
I am proud to call Mathjis a friend. |
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| Stonesthrow |
Mathijs-- I disagree with your assessment of Charlie. The talent is still there. However, he is hamstrung by what he has to play. If they played a wider variety of songs (reggae, jazz, blues, samba, or even disco-- no, forget disco), I think you would discover he can handle any of it.
I do pretty much agree with your assessments of the others. |
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| gypsy |
My boyfriend and I were talking about how impressed we were with Mick during the concert. He was great...still impressed by his stamina. |
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| Flash77 |
I saw 4 shows on this tour. I thought the worst one was the very last one they did (Vegas). They were very sloppy. You would think by now that they would know when the songs are gonna end? Ronnie Wood does not even attempt to play his guitar for half the show. He's wiggling his waste and pointing to people in the audience. That should be Mick's job. The lack of the rarities in the set list since the last club show is disappointing as well. BUT they are still the greatest band to walk the face of the Earth and I will go see them every opportunity I can before they move onto the great stage in the sky.
J- |
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| Nellcote |
The Stones have been a blues band for over 40 years.
An expectation that this type of band should be at this time an exact prototype of how a rock band should perform is neglecting that The Stones are a blues band, who have been able to evolve into a rock band. It is becoming quite apparent that fans are expecting The Stones to perform "perfectly", or that individuals whom the core group choose to have perform with them, night after night, act or emulate previous members of the band, in those positions. Comrades, it is not the Stones for which you are looking for. You are looking a mythical band, for it is not in The Stones M.O. to perform "perfect". In fact, I would venture that it is indeed the imperfections that make it so interesting to wait for their next performance, as this type of playing can turn any of their songs into complete different experiences. It has been my nirvana to anticipate The Stones to take a different angle on any song, anytime time they perform.
So, if you should enter the path of criticism of various parts of the current edition of The Stones, and if you were fortunate enough to have seen this current edition, think for a moment, the blues players The Stones formed their band upon never played the same way twice, variety was their spice of life, this is the embodiment of the Stones. Relish what you have seen, look forward to what is to come, for who knows, it could be all gone tomorrow. Then, who will care one bit if someone missed a lead, the piano sounds to cheery, horns not needed on such a track. This is a gift, that after more than fourty years we have been fortunate enough to still have around. No other collection of fans can say that about any other band. |
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| justforyou |
Any disillusioned Stones fan out there want to part with their Astoria and Vreden tickets please pm me...
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| Rollingstoned58 |
Im so glad I havent been around long enough to be able to complain about the Stones... at 16 these Stones are the only ones I know and obviously something made me like them! |
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| Scottfree |
quote:
justforyou wrote:
Any disillusioned Stones fan out there want to part with their Astoria and Vreden tickets please pm me...
That's a gem, nice work |
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| glencar |
Professional critics seem to disagree with the likes of Mathjiz. Keith is getting his best reviews ever. Daryl Does fine & Ronnie is better than he's been in years. I saw shows from the beginning of the tour till MSG & while I think the setlist got codified towards the end, I still loved this tour. I don't know if I'll see them in Europe or not (have the money, the time is an issue) but I hope to. |
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| Moonisup |
it is not all about the music, it' s a way of life
and i think that our love for the stones blinds sometimes |
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| Mathijs |
>Stonesthrow wrote: Mathijs-- I disagree with your assessment of Charlie. The talent is still >there. However, he is hamstrung by what he has to play. If they played a wider variety of >songs (reggae, jazz, blues, samba, or even disco-- no, forget disco), I think you would >discover he can handle any of it.
>I do pretty much agree with your assessments of the others.
No, this is not what I mean. Listen to Charlie�s drumming on the 75 and 78 tour. It wasn�t only solid, steady and loud, but it was also very exciting and surprising. Charlie had the ability to change the rhythm pattern every four bars, and he was able to spice up his playing by throwing in strange crashes and strange breaks on spots you wouldn�t expect. In 1978 he had to ability to play breaks that seemed to be full of mistakes �he was able to make the impression he couldn�t play the drums at all � but in the meantime it was brilliant what he did. And, most important, his drumming always had this swinging element. But nowadays, his seems to drum like a drum computer. It�s steady and solid, but the surprising element is completely gone. His breaks are completely predictable, he never plays around with the rhythm anymore. And, also very important, instead of lifting his hi-hat arm every 4th beat, now he opens the hi-hat and lets it drag, which makes his drumming sound so danceable and poppy.
>Nellcote wrote: The Stones have been a blues band for over 40 years.
>An expectation that this type of band should be at this time an exact prototype of how a >rock band should perform is neglecting that The Stones are a blues band, who have been >able to evolve into a rock band.
I don�t want them to be perfect, far from that! I want them to jam, I want them to experiment with the songs and tracks, just like they did from �75 until �82. Juts like a real good Blues or R&B band can jam. My problem with the Stones is that they seem to have lost the talent to jam, and especially Keith seems to have forgotten how to jam. Best example is When The Whip Comes Down from HBO. In 1978 or 1981, Keith would play the main riff, and would occasionally throw in some Berry-riffs, or he would play around the main them. Ronnie did some incredible riffing around Keith�s main theme, and this style of weaving was incredible. Nowadays, nobody is playing the main riff anymore. Ronnie is waving at the audience, and Keith is noodling with country-styled soloing, which (maybe due to his arthritis) sounds awful. I just wish they would listen to some 1978 tapes again instead of only listening to the studio version. I wish they would decide that Keith returns to playing the main riffs, and that Woody tries to anticipate on Keith�s main riffs. Nowadays the Stones seem to be a piano band with two lead guitar players.
>Glencar wrote: Professional critics seem to disagree with the likes of Mathjiz. Keith is >getting his best reviews ever. Daryl Does fine & Ronnie is better than he's been in years. I >saw shows from the beginning of the tour till MSG & while I think the setlist got codified
Well, what�s professional criticism then? People from the press who can only write about the Stones� age? I may not be professional, but I am a musician (guitar, bass and drums) who is listening to the Stones since 1983. And about Daryl: amongst bass players he is quite a legend, as his work with Miles Davis is still considered brilliant. But, with the Stones you need different skills. Listen to Let it Bleed from the HBO: Daryl is playing a mid-tempo R&B bass line right ON the beat �it makes the Stones sound like a mediocre soul band on a wedding party. Listen to Bill Wyman�s bass line in 1981: constantly playing around Charlie, constantly pushing and pulling Charlie with a thick and fat sound. Bill is constantly playing these strange half-jazzy bass runs, and playing around the melody. This is the kind of playing the Stones need!!
And about my Astoria tickets: even if the Stones would do a full hour of play-backing: they are still legends, and it is still thrilling to see these guys from 10 feet distance.
Mathijs
----------------------------------------------------------------
The Rolling Stones in Review
URL: http://stonesinreview.tiscaliweb.nl/
E-Mail: [email protected]
Bootlegs for Sale
The Lowdown on the Guitars of Keith Richards
Bootleg Reviews
Brussels Affair 1973
Vinyl Gang Productions / The Swingin' Pig
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| F505 |
Sorry to say this but Ronnie has become the Ringo Star of the Stones. |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
F505 wrote:
Sorry to say this but Ronnie has become the Ringo Starr of the Stones.
505! You just took a bat to that man's knees! You make a grown man cry!
Mathjis, I agree with you on Keith. He wasn't very exciting at all, first time I saw him. In fact, he wasn't *doing* anything at all. Just strumming one chord and letting it ring whenever he felt like it. Second time I saw him, though, he was crazy. Up, down, all over the stage, but you could see the concentration on his face - he wasn't having little side conversations with Darryl or Charlie anymore. (Ronnie stayed away from him the first time, which was probably one of the contributing factors of them getting so pissed off at each other towards the end of the first leg.) One of the greatest things to see in Boston the second time was the fact that Ronnie, Keith and Darryl all centered in around Charlie during "Midnight Rambler", looking at each other as they played, really playing *off* each other rather than just wandering away.
Ronnie's playing this tour has been damn awesome. It isn't '75 level, not yet. But from what I hear, they still have their off nights, but they're getting better. Listen to any boots you can find where his second solos during "Don't Stop" and "All Down The Line" aren't buried - he takes them and runs with them for all they're worth, buries 'em with those high-end choppy chords he likes so much. It's awesome, especially with "All Down The Line", which is starting to speed up again live, become that steady pumping rocker it was in '72 and '75.
Darryl has a very droning style of bass playing with the Stones. He's more than capable of playing very complex lines, it just seems like he's "getting out of the way" and letting the Stones do their thing, which really isn't what he should be doing at all. Listen to the studio recordings of "Don't Stop", "You Got Me Rocking", pretty much any of the big hits, and you hear that - nothing happening with those bass lines. But also listen to "Flip The Switch", which has a Bill-caliber bass line. It just seems like he's worried he'll get told off if he does anything more complicated than playing on the beat with the root note of the chord.
Flash77 - I assume you mean the first leg, because that's the kinda story we heard then, too.
But overall, I think they've been friggin' fantastic on this tour. I agree with what someone over on the other thread said - it seems like they've been building up since the late '80s to get back to the early '70s. Hopefully by the time they come back from Europe, rested, relaxed, rocking and rolling, preferably with new album in tow, we'll have ourselves some Stones to listen to who defy all the critics, once and for all.
But for now... they're still friggin' fantastic.
-tSYX --- Act naturally... |
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| Zeeta |
Yeah I agree with Mathijs on Keef and Ronnie playing together. I play guitar myself and enjoy hours of jamming with my brother who also plays the guitar. It really is all about understanding each other working it out, communication, the same vibe. There should always be one or more of the guitarists play rhymithically along with the rhythm section. When keef wants to solo he should give the nod to Ronnie, or even better Ronnie should just know and can feel it's Keefs turn just by the way the song is going etc. and play the rhythm himself. On Get Yer Ya Yas out the weaving happens but of course best when Keef is playing rhythm. But it can happen with Ronnie as we know. It can be said that Ronnie is the better lead guitarist and Keef the best rhythm. So stick to whats best for the most part but just jam al the same! Anyone ever hear "A nod is as good as a wink" by the Faces Ronnies best guitar work IMHO.
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| Maxlugar |
Bill Wyman is sorely missed. Like it or not, he was integral to the sound. It was subliminal but essential.
The Stones are still the best thing around. But when messured against themselves, it does beg comparison. It's natural to do that.
If you take any '81 boot and listen to just the bass for a few songs, ANY few songs, you will see just how much a better fit Bill was then Darryl.
And that's the way it is.
Walter Croncmax. |
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| telecaster |
Mathias and other critics-no offense meant but I hope I never get to the point where I have to dissect and analyze
The Stones. Talk about sucking the fun out of it.
Been a fan for 30 yrs so I think that will not happen
"Rock N Roll should be not be analyzed or deeply thought about" Keith Richards
"Rock N Roll is for the waist on down" Keith Richard |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Mathias and other critics-no offense meant but I hope I never get to the point where I have to dissect and analyze
The Stones. Talk about sucking the fun out of it.
Been a fan for 30 yrs so I think that will not happen
"Rock N Roll should be not be analyzed or deeply thought about" Keith Richards
"Rock N Roll is for the waist on down" Keith Richard
I like your thoughts Tele...
If I could agree more, we'd be joined at the hip, shake...lol.
Enjoy em' while you can....
The more dicecting, the more confused you'll get...
Just play the fucking tracks! |
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| Zeeta |
I agree also!
But everyone does it occasionally!
I like that - "rock and roll is for the waist down" ! ha!
I was merely commenting from a musician's opinion, but a fans opinion is usually better, less analytical and more heart felt!
Hey Hey my my,
rock and roll will never die! |
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