If I reach one person each day, it is a successful day. SS had vowed he was through with message boards and never was to return. I touched him with my sentiments and he has returned where he has many friends. It is a successful day!
You and the other guy's schitck is soooooo tired. I know you guys do it because you think it electrifies the board in some way, but you're just weak.
11th December 2007 04:49 PM
pdog
quote:voodoopug wrote:
If I reach one person each day, it is a successful day. SS had vowed he was through with message boards and never was to return. I touched him with my sentiments and he has returned where he has many friends. It is a successful day!
WTF? You sound like Bono with a cock in his ass giving some speech about starving kids.
11th December 2007 04:50 PM
pdog
quote:Mikey wrote:
You and the other guy's schitck is soooooo tired. I know you guys do it because you think it electrifies the board in some way, but you're just weak.
No shit, ironic they call Zep lame, yet they post shit so lame, I find myself yearning for Plants ball shrinking shrieks.
In other words, how lame are they, that I'd rather listen to Zep, than take anymore of their lame bullshit?
11th December 2007 04:59 PM
voodoopug
quote:Mikey wrote:
You and the other guy's schitck is soooooo tired. I know you guys do it because you think it electrifies the board in some way, but you're just weak.
11th December 2007 05:00 PM
voodoopug
quote:pdog wrote:
No shit, ironic they call Zep lame, yet they post shit so lame, I find myself yearning for Plants ball shrinking shrieks.
In other words, how lame are they, that I'd rather listen to Zep, than take anymore of their lame bullshit?
about to head home for the evening pdoggie....have a pleasant evening.
11th December 2007 05:14 PM
wasted
quote:Mikey wrote:
You and the other guy's schitck is soooooo tired. I know you guys do it because you think it electrifies the board in some way, but you're just weak.
[Edited by wasted]
11th December 2007 05:22 PM
voodoopug
quote:wasted wrote:
[Edited by wasted]
Funny, I like that post!
11th December 2007 05:28 PM
Gazza
quote:voodoopug wrote:
The British Press is far worse than that on the Stones as they, as with most of the British public, despise the stones.
Now you're simply rehashing Jb's posts from about five years ago, which were proved groundless since the start of the Licks tour and up to the last one by good ticket sales and excellent reviews of both theie shows (as well as "A Bigger Bang" plus the recent DVD). Take a look through the archives and see for yourself.
11th December 2007 05:32 PM
voodoopug
quote:Gazza wrote:
Now you're simply rehashing Jb's posts from about five years ago, which were proved groundless since the start of the Licks tour and up to the last one by good ticket sales and excellent reviews of both theie shows (as well as "A Bigger Bang" plus the recent DVD). Take a look through the archives and see for yourself.
5 years ago was a long time. Not trying to rehash his posts, I just agree with the sentiment. By the pure language of it, the worst reviewer of the stones I have seen actually hails from Chicago (Jim DeRogatis or similar from the Sun Times). But I don't see large scale public acceptance of the Stones in the British market when compared to other acts... After any period of absence, I cannot see them doing 17 shows in an arena like the Spice Girls. (The Fucking Spice Girls, are you kidding me??)
11th December 2007 05:37 PM
Gazza
quote:voodoopug wrote:
5 years ago was a long time. Not trying to rehash his posts, I just agree with the sentiment. By the pure language of it, the worst reviewer of the stones I have seen actually hails from Chicago (Jim DeRogatis or similar from the Sun Times). But I don't see large scale public acceptance of the Stones in the British market when compared to other acts... After any period of absence, I cannot see them doing 17 shows in an arena like the Spice Girls. (The Fucking Spice Girls, are you kidding me??)
Hardly the same target audience is it?
If they charged £40 a ticket instead of £150 and hadnt done any shows in 11 years, then yes, they could sell out 17 shows easily...17 shows is 340,000 tickets. The Stones played to over 400,000 people in Britain & Ireland on the ABB tour, but dont let that little fact get in the way of a good argument.
..and if you think the Spice Girls are taken seriously by the public or press in the UK, then youre fucking delusional...their comeback single flopped and was the worst selling Children In Need charity single either....with the amount of media coverage THAT release gets each year, even you & JB could have outsold it had you recorded a 4 minute whine about Led Zeppelin.
[Edited by Gazza]
11th December 2007 05:42 PM
voodoopug
quote:Gazza wrote:
Hardly the same target audience is it?
If they charged £40 a ticket instead of £150 and hadnt done any shows in 11 years, then yes, they could sell out 17 shows easily...17 shows is 340,000 tickets. The Stones played to over 400,000 people in Britain & Ireland on the ABB tour, but dont let that little fact get in the way of a good argument.
..and if you think the Spice Girls are taken seriously by the public or press in the UK, then youre fucking delusional...
They are taken just as seriously as "Hannah Montana" is taken in our country for some absurd reason and her ticket, according to several news reports was the toughest ticket to get since the White Sox World Series here in Chicago.
Don't you think that ticket price should be reflective of their target audience? 150 pounds should be the same in the economic reality of your typical stones fan as 40 pounds is to the typical Spice Girl fan.
Also, do you think logistically speaking the Stones could sell out 17 shows at one central location instead of bouncing them around the locale? I am sure they played to absurd amounts of people in Chicago too as there were 5 shows (counting Milwaukee) played in the Chicago area during ABB, two of which were stadium shows, and by the last couple of shows, the sales were not strong. In all candor, this conversation is not banter. I am truly interested in your take, and on a personal note, I'd like to believe you are correct about the stones selling out 17 shows in one city, but I am not convinced that yet.
11th December 2007 05:43 PM
voodoopug
quote:Gazza wrote:
..and if you think the Spice Girls are taken seriously by the public or press in the UK, then youre fucking delusional...their comeback single flopped and was the worst selling Children In Need charity single either....with the amount of media coverage THAT release gets each year, even you & JB could have outsold it had you recorded a 4 minute whine about Led Zeppelin.
[Edited by Gazza]
I'd gladly sign a release if you'd like to put something together!
[Edited by voodoopug]
11th December 2007 05:47 PM
andrews27
quote:Throwaway wrote:
The whole things on youtube, albeit from cellphone clips!
Plant looks like the Shroud of Turin in this clip. Thank God they all don't look like Pearl Jam up there.
11th December 2007 06:04 PM
Mel Belli
quote:andrews27 wrote:
Plant looks like the Shroud of Turin in this clip. Thank God they all don't look like Pearl Jam up there.
Wow! "Stairway" a whole step lower in Gm. They weren't kidding about changing the songs to suit Plant's voice.
11th December 2007 06:06 PM
pdog
fuck you Jb and Pug...
This is probably one of my least fav. Zep songs...
So, just imagine, that and then realize, I watched this, and said to myself... holy fuck, this is pretty good, I will go see Zep if they tour. I made my decision.
4 guys, playing rock and roll!
11th December 2007 06:19 PM
Gazza
quote:voodoopug wrote:
Don't you think that ticket price should be reflective of their target audience? 150 pounds should be the same in the economic reality of your typical stones fan as 40 pounds is to the typical Spice Girl fan.
Their target audience should be people of all ages and incomes...whats the point of restricting themselves?
Look at the thrill of these kids' faces at the Isle of Wight seeing their first Stones show? You cant put a price on that. You're suggesting the Stones should just not bother trying to get their magic across to a young audience because they simply dont earn enough? And then you wonder why kids are going to Spice Girls shows instead of the Stones? Who's going to be around to remember their music when our generation is no longer here to do so?
(the little girl's expression on that 2nd photo makes it my favourite shot of the entire tour)
Since when has rock n roll been all about elitism and exclusivity? If you're arguing that point then surely you can see why theyre no longer taken seriously by the wider public and people are starting to equate them more with the likes of Vegas acts like Celine Dion and Streisand instead of their musical contemporaries.
quote:voodoopug wrote:Also, do you think logistically speaking the Stones could sell out 17 shows at one central location instead of bouncing them around the locale?
If they lowered prices and didnt tour as often, its possible. Hard to do so in an arena, though if youre charging so much money. Theyre at a distinct handicap now in that if they were to play several nights somewhere. it takes more time for them to do so. In 1975, they played 6 nights in a row at MSG - if they were to play as many shows there nowadays, it would take 2 weeks to complete that run of concerts. People are less reluctant to go to multiple shows if they have too many nights off.
quote:voodoopug wrote:
I am sure they played to absurd amounts of people in Chicago too as there were 5 shows (counting Milwaukee) played in the Chicago area during ABB, two of which were stadium shows, and by the last couple of shows, the sales were not strong. In all candor, this conversation is not banter. I am truly interested in your take, and on a personal note, I'd like to believe you are correct about the stones selling out 17 shows in one city, but I am not convinced that yet.
Like I said, if they hadnt toured since 1998 (the last time the Spice Girls toured), the demand would be much higher. $500 a ticket simply doesnt lend itself to people attending multiple shows. They actually made a good decision to 'stagger' shows in those markets like Chicago on the last tour by having them 6 months apart on average over their 3 visits, enabling more repeat attendees. Big fuck up on scheduling Soldier Field for a midweek night in freezing October though. Look at it this way, though. London's population is three times that of Chicago - and the 3 visits and 4 shows in Chicago pulled in about 120,000 people..thats still pretty good.
Britain's a very small country, remember (although heavily populated)...imagine 60 million people crammed into the size of a medium sized state in the US, so its not really comparing like with like.
Zeppelin's show last night was their first proper show in 28 years, their first UK date since the two at Knebworth in 1979 and their first LONDON shows since 1975. Hardly any wonder the demand was insane. Can you imagine the demand if the Stones hadnt toured since the late 70's and had been pretty much inactive in all that time?
11th December 2007 06:20 PM
Left Shoe Shuffle
quote:Nellcote wrote:
Naomi Campbell Mugged at Zeppelin Concert
Would it be an event if Naomi Campbell weren’t somehow at the center of things? While Led Zeppelin reunited in London to memorialize Atlantic Records’ Ahmet Ertegun, the supermodel was in a luxury box at the O2 Arena getting mugged.
As the show ended I ran into her coming out of the VIP exit. She was having a fight with one of the security men. As we passed, she announced to me, "Someone stole my handbag. It had two phones in it!"
On a positive note, that's two cell phones that she won't be able to beat her personal assistants with...
11th December 2007 06:27 PM
voodoopug
quote:Gazza wrote:
Their target audience should be people of all ages and incomes...whats the point of restricting themselves?
Look at the thrill of these kids' faces at the Isle of Wight seeing their first Stones show? You cant put a price on that. You're suggesting the Stones should just not bother trying to get their magic across to a young audience because they simply dont earn enough? And then you wonder why kids are going to Spice Girls shows instead of the Stones? Who's going to be around to remember their music when our generation is no longer here to do so?
(the little girl's expression on that 2nd photo makes it my favourite shot of the entire tour)
Since when has rock n roll been all about elitism and exclusivity? If you're arguing that point then surely you can see why theyre no longer taken seriously by the wider public and people are starting to equate them more with the likes of Vegas acts like Celine Dion and Streisand instead of their musical contemporaries.
If they lowered prices and didnt tour as often, its possible. Hard to do so in an arena, though if youre charging so much money. Theyre at a distinct handicap now in that if they were to play several nights somewhere. it takes more time for them to do so. In 1975, they played 6 nights in a row at MSG - if they were to play as many shows there nowadays, it would take 2 weeks to complete that run of concerts. People are less reluctant to go to multiple shows if they have too many nights off.
Like I said, if they hadnt toured since 1998 (the last time the Spice Girls toured), the demand would be much higher. $500 a ticket simply doesnt lend itself to people attending multiple shows. They actually made a good decision to 'stagger' shows in those markets like Chicago on the last tour by having them 6 months apart on average over their 3 visits, enabling more repeat attendees. Big fuck up on scheduling Soldier Field for a midweek night in freezing October though. Look at it this way, though. London's population is three times that of Chicago - and the 3 visits and 4 shows in Chicago pulled in about 120,000 people..thats still pretty good.
Britain's a very small country, remember (although heavily populated)...imagine 60 million people crammed into the size of a medium sized state in the US, so its not really comparing like with like.
Zeppelin's show last night was their first proper show in 28 years, their first UK date since the two at Knebworth in 1979 and their first LONDON shows since 1975. Hardly any wonder the demand was insane. Can you imagine the demand if the Stones hadnt toured since the late 70's and had been pretty much inactive in all that time?
good points, and I appreciate you taking the time to give that input.
I can certainly see that they cannot play consecutive nights anymore, as well as WHY the public regards them as a joke. I do travel to multiple shows and there is some creative budgeting involved.
Your scenario about the time off is interesting. Would there really be a large public demand for MULTIPLE shows if they stopped touring in 1989 and came back with the version of the stones we see today, which is without question not up to par musically to what they were even close to capable of in their prime? It wouldnt take long to see that with the exception of Micks energy and Charlie Watts, the band is totally driven today by backing musicians and hired hands (D. Jones). Unfortunately we'll never know, but it is an interesting debate.
11th December 2007 06:31 PM
Gazza
I dont see why not.
I doubt too many people at the 02 last night expected to hear a prime-Led Zeppelin either, and (although I havent heard the recordings yet) I doubt they got one either.
I also doubt too many of them will mind that too much. After a long absence, the legend or myth tends to override the reality.
That, plus the fact that a 'past their best' Rolling Stones is still a far better live act than pretty much everyone else, anyway.
11th December 2007 06:52 PM
IanBillen
Was the show that great in terms of ability and out-put. In my eyes and ears.... No.
This later Led Zeppelin regathering shall we say "got away with it" from what I saw and heard. They did not blast anything out.
I seen the footage and Plant is not going to be able to handle a legenthy tour of any sort doing these songs. He was tetering the edge of his present vocal capability and embarrasement in just one evening....let alone what is talked about in being many over and again.
His Vox just do not have it.
Page can still "get away with it" enough for a show here and again. JPJ was so far down in the mix or be it from the 02 arena's notoriously low-end attenuation in the arena's acoustics it was hard to hear him....especially via a PC in a flash clip.
Page sounds as good as he possibly can.
*NOTE: Very suprisingly Page, of the three, carried his weight the best. From what I saw and heard it seems as though he carried the show.
As for plant his Vox seemed=well fragile but plausable enough for an evening. His face says yes, his Vox and body say no, not what we were but we will get away with this show enough to not embarasse anyone.
Oh well it wasn't any type of disaster. But as far as "great", "spectacular", "tremendous", "amazing" go....
Not hardly from what I heard and saw. I seen a band who got what they have left together enough to "get away" with putting on a show.
Regardless, was neat to see at least what they still "do" have and to see them together again. Maybe a 15-20 city mini-tour would be a cool way to go-out (and being as they could still possibly handle 20 shows over three or four months with a little breaking in between gigs) with a new DVD and CD-ROM. This is from what I am seeing as being their capability. Not an 8-10 month 60-70 show extravaganza.
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen]
11th December 2007 07:05 PM
Gazza
You cant really judge a show from a couple of brief news excerpts with some twat talking over them and a few cellphone clips on youtube
I'll rely on what I hear from people who were there and when I hear a recording of it.
Plus - it's only one show. A bit much to ask any band to be at their most impressive at the first attempt. You certainly wouldnt expect the Stones to have all the creases ironed out on an opening night/
11th December 2007 08:24 PM
Nellcote
In celebration of this thread, as well as this event, I am listening to Zep BBC Sessions, which is an outstanding set.
Then I will open up the 11 cd set of rare cuts.
Pug, it is much like a good vintage wine, to listen to the wizardry of Page overseeing the Messrs Plant, Jones, Bonham.
On a related note, I am happy to see this reunion for JPJ.
I had felt over the years, he had gotten short shrift of these various incarnations which Page/Plant would organize, for heaven's sake, there's always been one more hanging.
Here's hoping
11th December 2007 08:26 PM
Lazy Bones
quote:voodoopug wrote:
They are taken just as seriously as "Hannah Montana" is taken in our country for some absurd reason
"absurd reason"...?
what's so absurd about young girls - aged 4-12 (or so) enjoying the music and television program starred by a 15 year old girl? someone, who, parents - like myself - prefer their kids listening to, rather than some coked-up slut shaving their head and snatch to make tramp news and top-viewed youtube clip.
11th December 2007 08:45 PM
doo doo doo Dude
You know this show was filmed for DVD release. Here's a partial clip of pro shot Black Dog:
11th December 2007 08:57 PM
mojoman
quote:Joey wrote:
" does anyone know if anybody lit up a ciggy during this show? "
No.
Sass & Boots ! ™
does anybody remember laughter?
11th December 2007 09:34 PM
gypsy
quote:LadyJane wrote:
"Unlike Mick Jagger, Mr. Plant — the youngest of the original members, at 59 — doesn’t walk and gesture like an excited woman anymore."
NO ONE CAN WORK A STAGE LIKE MICK JAGGER!
No comparison.
NONE.
LJ.
Word, my Sistah!
Bob Plant is nothing but a bloated old caterwauler.
Seems like a nice guy, albeit a little bit dumb.
But he ain't no MICK FUCKING JAGGER!
11th December 2007 10:36 PM
IanBillen
No. It was not the "creases" Gazza, it was the ability.
Their timing was, while not perfect, was good enough, and would get better in more shows. Page was sloppy a bit but this "should" get -somewhat better with more shows. JPJ must of been OK enough although....FUCK I could not hear him much, and what I heard of him was awfully muddy. This is not his fault though. But from what I did hear he was in the pocket great, just needed to heat up a bit more and have some better acoustics and he would be as good as gold. Jas. Bon did the best he could to fill pa-pa's shoes and would work well enough to get away with it. Sure, they seemed "nervous" underneath it all (that would get better in time) and each one of them in front paid attention very close to each-other in order not to miss anything in order to avoid any noticeable fuck-up. In time they could loosen up more and let go. All these things would improve with more shows.
But Plant is only 80-90%. He cannot hit any real high notes at all.
He did "OK", as in "getting away with a Zep" show, but if this was any time in the seventies The bands performance would be pretty sub-par over-all.
Page did OK. But I cannot see them doing an entire tour. Especially with Plants vox as fragile as I can very much tell were. Not to be a "know it all" or for sure any kind of "seen all-done all" because I surely haven't.
But I have recorded vocals many a time. I can tell when a singers voice is either "fragile", or spent.
His voice is not spent so much as it is quite "fragile" now-a-days. It could easily blow.... and he knows it. It will not handle a legnthey tour and really he should not be singing for over an hour anymore. It is not due to lack of rehearsal because they have been at this since May... Also I can tell when fragility comes from lack of vocal exercise. What you heard was not it.
I think Plant realizes this surely (who wouldn't when it is their own throat) and this lends to some of his reluctance to tour with Zeppelin again.
Honestly they did much better than Live Aid and even in 88. For what they have to work with now-a-days they did pretty good. Seemed like a decent showing for what they were working with here and they did as good, from what I saw and heard as anyone could ask given their present day state.
But as for Mr. PLant, Last nights show is as good as his vox will get. And infact they will get worse as time, and if shows continue.
I surely have nothing against the man. I wish him well enough like the next bloke. I am just calling it as I hear it.
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen]
11th December 2007 10:40 PM
ShaneJazz
Looks like at least one show at MSG is next, possibly three in all.
11th December 2007 10:58 PM
Mel Belli
quote:ShaneJazz wrote:
Looks like at least one show at MSG is next, possibly three in all.
So they're taking the Cream-plus approach? Play both sides of the Atlantic and call it quits. No Omaha?!
11th December 2007 11:10 PM
voodoopug
quote:Lazy Bones wrote:
"absurd reason"...?
what's so absurd about young girls - aged 4-12 (or so) enjoying the music and television program starred by a 15 year old girl? someone, who, parents - like myself - prefer their kids listening to, rather than some coked-up slut shaving their head and snatch to make tramp news and top-viewed youtube clip.
I agree with you that this is excellent wholesome entertainment. Where the absurdity lies is the fact that tickets were being sold on the secondary market for 2K a pop. I am the first in line when it comes to wholesome family entertainment. I take my kids to see "Thomas the Tank Engine" and "Sesame Street Live" when they come to town, but I would not pay 2K per ticket for them, and I do spend money when it comes to concert tickets.
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