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| gypsymofo60 |
I don't know about the majority of people on this board, but it would seem to me that although most of us agree that Brian Jones was the impetus that got The Stones going, there would still have been a Rolling Stones with, or without Brian. Whether they would have had such an immedeate impact without Brian remains...debateable. Still the fact stands, that 33 years, or so after his death The band (HE)_ (supposedly?????)_ formed one handed, ROLLS ON......and to my mind Mick & Keith would have formed the Stones anyway. Nobody to my eyes/ears, whatever has actually dismissed Brian as a musician, or an integral cog in the early Stones, and to accuse fans of unworthiness, simpy because they find this whole petition somewhat unsavoury to say the least is childish. Far be it for me to direct you in other directions, Christ!...If at your ages you need a map, you are in more serious trouble than I imagined. My point is.....Anybody who has devoted their time, energy, and money into the Stones knows..Brian was a complete fuck up_ and he would be the first to admit it. Have your CRUSADE, I guess lesser mortals need them, but understand_ not everybody shares your enthusiasim, and the harrasment, if I am not mistaken originates not from us, but from those who would presume that all Stones fans should embrace this WITCH-HUNT........grow up! |
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| sasca |
I don�t remember harassing anyone. On the contrary, I remember placing a polite message on this board to be met with considerable contempt and vituperation.
As for the rest - if you think there�d have been a Stones without Brian you really need to read a few more biographies. Had it not been for him, Mick would probably have continued with his LSE studies, Charlie would never have joined, Keith would have been ignored by the Blues crowd as a Chuck Berry wannabe.... Brian was seriously troubled and knew it. Does this mean he deserved what he got?
If you don't want to sign, don't but I don't see why I should be insulted for not just sitting on my arse saying 'Ooh, it'd be nice to know.' |
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| Fiji Joe |
That's the point Sasafras, you keep insuating he "got" something...the dude killed himself with his lifestyle...so, to that extent, hell yes he deserves what he got! Find the grassy knoll and you'll find your killer...until then, pipe down chorus boy... |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
sasca, I don't think anyone is perturbed at you in particular.
When you put up that post, did you know that Miss U had already put up a petition post earlier? Did you see the response it got? If you didn't know, you can be excused.
I think most people were pissed at Miss U for insinuating that we who disagree with you folks are somehow lesser fans. That we don't care as much. Obviously that is horse manure. Then she further stated that we were harrassing her, when in point of fact, we simply disagreed with her and let her know why. And if you read the thread, you will find that she was the one who got hostile before anyone else.
Your opinion is obviously controversial. You just have to realize that if you post something like that, you invite response. And by now, I'm sure you figured out, you are not gonna get the response that you were looking for.
I personally think playing "what if" is a waste of time. So instead of wasting more time, why don't we just drop this topic?
I think, for the most part your part in that thread was fine. You have your opinion, we have ours. |
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| Nellcote |
Sasca;
Welcome to the zenith of Rolling Stones democracy!
This is the place to engage yourself, with comment about your favorite Stones topic. Be ready to navigate your spaceship thru multiple meteor showers, as we all will hail down upon ye in the process. It's wicked pissa!
Enjoy the ride! |
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| sasca |
^#$&^%$ |
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| sasca |
Nope. Nada. If anyone has anything urgent to say to me, come to the 'Is there...?' thread. |
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| sasca |
Hey, the messages have appeared. A couple of points:
- by 'deserved what he got' I'm not implying that he was murdered. I'm replying to the statement that Brian was a fuck-up and therefore 'so what if he died?' What he got might have been a useless liver for all I know.
- I didn't know that Miss U had already posted a message about the petition. And neither did some of the people who replied to my message.
- Why is it any more a waste of time organising a petition than chatting on this board? |
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| gypsymofo60 |
Sasca, my comments weren't aimed specificaly at you, or indeed anyone in a singular sense. As for the biography comment, I feel safe in saying if reading Stones books is what's important here, then I'd probably read in excess of a round 50 by the time you started feotal sit-ups. And again; no Stones without Brian??????? Delusional! In fact London in the early 60s was a wash with patrons ready to pay an arm, and a leg to see another "Chuck Berry wanna-be". Mick & Keith both may have benefitted from Brian's influence, but they didn't need him. In fact some of the bands closest associates over the years have said as much, if not more. Sometimes fate is an obvious, seeable entity, that's the case with The Glimmer Twins, they could've put a wind up monkey on drums, together with any old instrumentalists, and still have been "The Greatest Rock n' Roll Band In The World", and I say that without any disrespect to Charlie, Taylor, Stu, Ronnie, or Brian. I do not feel he got what was coming to him, but as an adult I no longer have very much sympathy for people like Brian, that's all there is to that. And one last time, I just think there are far more worthwhile causes out there than reopening this case, add to that the harm it may do the people who REALLY knew him. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Here's yer answer sasca...This board contains numerous characters that are good friends of mine. I come here as much for the comradeship, as much as the discussions. You see, wasting time here is not a waste of time. It is productive in very tangible ways. I have made many very real and dear friends here. We share music from our collections. We pounce on unsuspecting sheep....
Your petition is doomed to failure. Won't work, and is completely pointless(IMO). It doesn't look like it's helping you make many new friends here either.
So, IMO, coming to Rocks Off is a far more productive use of time than your signature drive will ever be. |
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| sasca |
Gypsy - that�s sentimental nonsense. Like talking about 'soul-mates'. 'The Glimmer Twins were fated to be mated.' Brian worked bloody hard at putting his group together and promoting it. And teaching Mick and Keith a great deal about music. And naming the group.
Also: There seems to be some confusion as to why you dislike my prescence. Please make up your minds - either I'm wasting my time OR I'm causing incalculable hurt to Brian's nearest and dearest. It can't be both. Some people here seem to like bitching for its own sake, like members of schoolyard cliques, while going out of there way to proclaim their adulthood. Again, like members of schoolyard cliques.
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| sasca |
Sorry I can't reply. The last two messages won't appear. |
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| sasca |
"The band would not have existed without him" - Bill Wyman. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Why are you talking to yourself? |
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| sirmoonie |
You should see the stuff he said to himself that we can't see.
Can you see this? I can't. |
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| sasca |
I wasn't. Gypsy (just Gypsy) added a message but must have removed it. |
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| Nellcote |
Sasca;
Get a grip mon!
WTF, we all love the Stones.
Just enjoy the ride.
You want to deal with the death of Brian Jones, go ahead, make my day!
Report in time to time with your results, I'm sure if it is
legit, you will have a place in history.
Do the Do....ah, speaking of Howlin Wolf...can't wait until 11/19, when the reissue comes out....
Where the heck is the Hubert Sumlin disc w/Keith on it.
Thought for sure some label would have put it out to capitalize on the Stones here in the States.... |
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| Miss U. |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
sasca, I don't think anyone is perturbed at you in particular.
***Coulda fooled me. Take a look at the Brian Jones petition thread & see the response "WE" got.**
When you put up that post, did you know that Miss U had already put up a petition post earlier? Did you see the response it got? If you didn't know, you can be excused.
***Excused by whom?? You? Are you the appointed ruler of this board? What harm does it do to post it twice? Unless the point is to keep it hush-hush.**
I think most people were pissed at Miss U for insinuating that we who disagree with you folks are somehow lesser fans. That we don't care as much. Obviously that is horse manure. Then she further stated that we were harrassing her, when in point of fact, we simply disagreed with her and let her know why.
***The fact is, SS, that you will ALWAYS disagree with me on any topic where your friends Dandelion etc are opposed. If it weren't so, it wouldn't be harassment.**
And if you read the thread, you will find that she was the one who got hostile before anyone else.
**I guess you must be overlooking the 2nd and 3rd posts in that thread: Stonemik's rude reply to Sasca, and Nellcote's reply referring to the petition as "dribble". Not that it matters to us if some are opposed.**
Your opinion is obviously controversial. You just have to realize that if you post something like that, you invite response.
**Response, fine. Harassment & personal attacks & attempts at making the petiton look as bad as possible by making assumptions & putting words in our mouths, and trying to persuade others not to sign, NO.***
And by now, I'm sure you figured out, you are not gonna get the response that you were looking for.
**Who cares what a few people & their cyber buds/multiple personalities think? The people who signed the petition obviously disagree with you, Sir Stonesalot.**
I personally think playing "what if" is a waste of time. So instead of wasting more time, why don't we just drop this topic?
**Wow, good idea to drop the topic. It's not a waste of time, though. We are doing something proactive about it. That's why people are now up in arms over it. A waste of time would be wasting all one's time on a message board.**
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| gypsy |
Good luck, Miss U. I wish you the best with your petition. Brian is so lucky to have you in his corner. |
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| sirmoonie |
Tell you what though. Love to see the face on the guy who opens the mail the day that petition arrives.
"Whaaa? WTF? Is this.....Whaaa? Is today April....Wait a minute. WTF?? Heh, heh. No way. Get the fuck outta here. Heh, heh. Ha, ha, ha. HAHAHHAH. Dudes!!!! Get OVER here! Check this shit out! HAHAHHAHAH! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAH. Fuckin AAAAA'!!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hooooooooo! Wingy dingy ding ding!!!! Plow the afterburners, cheese!! I got dibs on writing the rejection letter!!!! Fuck you, its my turn, man!!!! You got the dude who thinks his pet cow got fucked to death by Elvis." |
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| sasca |
Hope you die before you get old:-) |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
>What harm does it do to post it twice?<
It's the start of flooding this board with repetitive posts. I've seen 1st hand how you operate Brenda. You put up post after post about the same things. Now, instead of just YOU doing it, you drag poor sasca along into your psychosis, and have him help you. If we let you get away with it now, how mant MORE times will we all have to read about your silly(IMO) petition.
>Are you the appointed ruler of this board? <
Appointed? No. But I AM a heavy hitter here. Seems that lots of folks who read these boards care about what I have to say. I certainly don't FORCE anyone to agree with me. How can I? There are hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles between myself and the other nice people here. Perhaps people agree with what I have to say because because I'm usually right? Because when I say something it's well thought out, and rational? That is something that your little petition isn't(IMO).
People listen to me because I'm a voice of reason. You Brenda, on the other hand, come across as a nutjob. I'm not saying you actually are a nutjob....it just LOOKS like you are. And that is certainly none of my doing. Your posts do that for you.
>The fact is, SS, that you will ALWAYS disagree with me on any topic where your friends Dandelion etc are opposed.<
Complete bullshit. When I disagree with you, or anyone, it's because I actually disagree ON MY OWN TERMS. I've said this many times, NO ONE does my thinking for me. My previous posts on the subject of your petition give MANY well thought out, rational reasons with why I think you are full of crap.
>If it weren't so, it wouldn't be harassment.<
It isn't harrassment at all, period. If it were, we would all be getting citations in the mail. Harrassment is illegal. No one has broken a single law. Your version of harrassment, and the law's definition are completely different.
>Nellcote's reply referring to the petition as "dribble".<
OK, I'll give you this one. Nelly should never have refered to your petition as "dribble". Dribble is something you do with a basketball, or what a baby does on a bib, and obviously neither have anything to do with your petition. The word he should have used is "drivel", which is a much more appropriate word in this instance.
What I was refering to was YOUR use of vulgarity. You tossed the F bomb first. After that all bets are off. You reap what you sow.
>Response, fine. Harassment & personal attacks & attempts at making the petiton look as bad as possible by making assumptions & putting words in our mouths, and trying to persuade others not to sign, NO.<
Again, you are not being harrassed. You are being disagreed with. If someone disagrees with your petition, why WOULDN'T they try to discourage people from signing it? Why WOULDN'T they give reasons why the petition is a bad idea? In this case, nothing that we say can make your petition look any worse than it already is(IMO). Your petition speaks volumes for itself.
>Who cares what a few people & their cyber buds/multiple personalities think? The people who signed the petition obviously disagree with you, Sir Stonesalot.<
I can turn that statement around on you pretty easily. The people who DIDN'T sign obviously disagree with YOU. There are hundreds of thousands of Stones fans out there...and 1200+ are members here. Are you claiming that you have a majority? Yeah right.
>It's not a waste of time, though. <
Sure it is. It has no hope of accomplishing anything. Completely pointless, ergo a waste of time.
>We are doing something proactive about it. That's why people are now up in arms over it. <
Oh that's a hoot. You are doing nothing but hunting snipe, and tracking Bigfoot. The reason why people are up in arms about it is because you are doing this without Brian's next-of-kin's consent. People are pissed because you want an investigation that would require Brian's remains to be exhumed. People are upset because by not letting this issue rest, you could actually end up defaming the very man that you claim to be so devoted to, as well as cause his family much distress. People are pissed at YOU because you keep trying to infer that any "true" fan would want to sign your silly rag. People are pissed that you keep trying to cram your nonsense down our throats. THAT is why people are pissed Brenda. It has NOTHING to do with you being "proactive".
The information you seek can be classified in no other way than "nice to know". It is not essential to know what really happened that night. The sun has continued to rise and fall daily for 33 years without knowing. It will continue to do so.
Please continue with your petition. Feel free to delude yourself into thinking that it means something. In the meantime, the rest of us will continue on in reality, and wait for you to get your head smashed in by one of those windmills that you insist on jousting. |
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| sasca |
- I don�t think you need to build an Ark just yet - 2 threads aren�t going to overwhelm the board. It may even be able to withstand the terrible force of 3. Even 4.
Anyway, several people had obviously not heard about the petition. Now they have and no-one forced the rest of you to read or add your comments. But you did - and over 150 replies to a message seems pretty good to me. Sort of the point of a message-board.
- No-one dragged me here.
- I mistrust people setting themselves up as voices of reason. It seems too easily satisfied with the appearance of reasonableness, too dismissive of others, to be reasonable.
- I�m not sure about the legal definitions of harassment. But 'to harass' can be defined as 'to trouble by persistent attacks' - which is certainly what some have tried to do. The first reply to my message questioned my sanity and many continued on similiar themes. Of course I expect responses. I also expect some of them to be bloody stupid. I am not disappointed.
- 'fuck' means all bets are off?
- I don't claim a majority in anything.
- again, I don't see how I can be both completely useless and a scourge of the Jones family.
- well, yes, the sun rises and falls. I didn't claim otherwise.
Now all of you be nice or I'll send Bigfoot around to beat the crap out of you.
[Edited by sasca] |
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| gypsy |
Very nicely put, SS. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
>and over 150 replies to a message seems pretty good to me.<
Well yeah, if the responses had been anything like positive, I'd agree that 150 replies would be good. But you were being showered with scorn and ridicule for the whole thread. What is good about that? Are you a glutton for punishment or something?
>- I mistrust people setting themselves up as voices of reason. It seems too easily satisfied with the appearance of reasonableness, too dismissive of others, to be reasonable.<
Oh THAT makes a lot of sense. So only people who talk all nutty-fruitcake like are to be trusted? Man, you are digging yourself a hole.
>But 'to harass' can be defined as 'to trouble by persistent attacks' - which is certainly what some have tried to do. <
Attacks? Someone came after you or Brenda with a ball bat or something? This is a public forum, and you come here of your own volition. Same with Brenda. So if these "attacks" persist, and are so awful, why put yourself in that position? A "reasonable" person would not continue to put themselves in that position. But we all know what you think of "reason".
I really think that so far, everyone has been pretty nice. I've seen it get a lot more viscious and nasty. My suggestion is to buy a suit of armour.
>Now all of you be nice or I'll send Bigfoot around to beat the crap out of you.<
You really are a newbie. We'd make sweet & sour chicken outta bigfoot. You want eggroll with that?
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| patioaintdry |
What an entertaining thread!
Thank you.
I'm a weak person and follower, and as such, will throw in my lot with the SirStonesAlot faction -- scathing responses! Go Man, Go!
And with that, I'd like to quote the legendary Shane McGowan and the Pogues:
"Good Night and God Bless -- Now Fuck Off to Bed!" |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
Alright, I've kept out of this discussion because I've seen how nasty it can get. Tempers flare, names are called, etc. And, to be perfectly honest...
I *do not care* how Brian Jones died.
Do I feel sorry for him? Yes! The poor guy never made thirty, just like Keith said. He was a brilliant musician and an ambitious one at that. He mastered new instruments with ease. He founded the Stones - yes, there would have been no Rolling Stones without Brian Jones. But he was also on the path to destruction long before the pool and probably would have been afterwards. It matters *nothing* to me how he died - the case is yesterday's papers and would accomplish *nothing*.
Do we somehow 'owe it to him' to dig him up and find out? I don't think so... Brian Jones is dead. Very dead. I don't think he cares one way or another. You know who would care? The people who it affected thirty years ago. You want to drag them into the limelight of the tabloids again? You want to make this some big media event? Solving an unsolved mystery? I'll tell you what I think - there's a 95% chance that this was something that was caused simply by him shutting down in a warm pool because of drug reactions, and the other 5%? The person who killed him in that little sliver of probablility is almost certainly dead.
So why, why, why do you want to dig this up? To find The Truth? We'll never know The Truth. As our boy Jack N. once said, "You can't handle the truth!" Well, maybe not, but you get it. Why do this? Because it calls attention to Brian, a person you (you being the instigators of this petition) find to be very important in your life who you feel others do not give due respect. Good! Great! I don't think Ronnie gets half the mention he should - I don't start petitions for him. I'm amazed at the suddenness of Ian Stuart's death - I'm not asking to dig him up.
The fact is, these petitions are just for attention, nothing more, nothing less. Now, I'm not trying to personally call the starters attention-grabbers, because I'm sure that's not what you conciously think. But because you love Brian so much, you think calling attention to him through the re-opening of his case will bring public attention to him - and it will (you assume in your subconciousness) also trickle down to you. You don't see how painful it would be to disturb the memory of a dead loved one in someone else's mind. These petitions, to be frank with the starters, are selfish and very hurtful to the people who really loved Brian.
I know you guys, the petition starters, say you really loved this guy too. But if you really do, then please, please, please, honor his memory by focusing on all the wonderous things he accomplished while alive. Don't just focus on his young death in an attempt to make him a rock martyr like Lennon or Cobain. He died very young, and the music world lost a great musician, but personally? He was on the way out anyway, I think. Living like that under the influence of so many psychedelic drugs of the era permanently damages you if it doesn't kill you. Even if he didn't die of it within months, he would have been a shadow of the man you see him as, a Syd Barrett character, wandering the streets.
To sum it up - this petition, no matter what it may do for your attention-reception or that of Brian, will harm the people who really personally knew and loved him.
Not to mention it has about a one in a million chance of even getting enough authentic signatures to make it even worthwhile to open the envelope.
So let's just honor the memory of a great musician, huh? Rather than dragging up how he died in an attempt to gain attention for him and yourself?
(Please note: The original note I wrote was *much* more angry and made numerous uses of the phrase "this makes me sick." I've tried to tone it down so the message gets through without alienating the reader. We good on that? Good. 'Cause if I just get an incoherant flame back in response, there'll be hell to pay. I'm honestly interested in a measured response to it)
-tSYX. |
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| Fiji Joe |
We should have put Sasquatch and Miss U on the sniper case from the start...could have spared a lot of innocent lives
This has got to be, aside from just plain stupid, the gayest thing I've seen on this board...let the man and his family be...for Garfunkel's sake...don't you two have some crop circles to create? |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Savage Young one.....do you like beating your head against brick walls?
I think those same points that you so eloquently just made, were tossed at them ad nauseum. It's not sinking in. They just know better than the rest of the world.
It's not them who are crazy, it's the rest of the world that's crazy.
Remember, don't trust anyone who is reasonable. |
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| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
sasca wrote:
Gypsy - that�s sentimental nonsense. Like talking about 'soul-mates'. 'The Glimmer Twins were fated to be mated.' Brian worked bloody hard at putting his group together and promoting it. And teaching Mick and Keith a great deal about music. And naming the group.
Also: There seems to be some confusion as to why you dislike my prescence. Please make up your minds - either I'm wasting my time OR I'm causing incalculable hurt to Brian's nearest and dearest. It can't be both. Some people here seem to like bitching for its own sake, like members of schoolyard cliques, while going out of there way to proclaim their adulthood. Again, like members of schoolyard cliques.SENTIMENTAL NONSENSE????????Believe me SAS, I am no sentimentalist, my comments were based in fact alone, but I'm not going to argue the toss on that again, it simply is what it is. Mick and Keith would have formed a rhythm and blues cover band without Brian. Whatever they would have called it is irrelevant. I do not dislike your presence here as you say, first off I am in no position to object to anybody's presence here, the board is not my property, I have no mortgage here! And you are as entitled to you opinion as anyone else is.....Although I must admit to being partial to the odd bitch,(ie: bitching, as in complaining), especially when necrophilia is being actively encouraged in one's very presence, know what I mean? I think a ways back you mentioned something about OCD, well! OCD is actually just a complication of manic-depression, and another complication of that affliction is the persecution complex. I don't dislike anyone who is behind that petition, including you, I just feel that after 33 years it is stupid, pointless, and an affront to the relatives of less well known individuals who have died in truly bizzare circumstances, everyday people who don't have severely bored , misguided people attempting to have their cases reopened in order to assuage their SENTIMENTAL fantasies.
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