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gotdablouse wrote:
One of the best threads here in a while, finally exposing Ian's contrarian nature to the masses ;-)

Seriously it does sound like Mick wrote most of the material, which is not much of a surprise since Keith told Uncut in 2003 that he'd written enough material over the years as it was. Strange thing is that VL was really a Keith album, rather dull if you ask me, but something must have snapped in him around that time. Just listen to "Infamy", this is just a rambling jam with a flangy sound that goes nowhere, who could call this a song in their right mind! You really have to be Keith and entitled by contract to tow cuts on the album.

The bad news on ABB is that not only did Keith not write much, he also didn't craft many lead guitar lines, other than maybe on ITWLong, and while Mick can write excellent tunes he certainly cannot craft guitar lines like Keith once did, that "spatial"/"jaunty" sound of his best work, say "Tumbling Dice". I listened to SW the other and while the songs are pretty boring compared to ABB's, the guitar was still there, now it's gone, probably for good too :-(

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Angiegirl wrote:

And stating that it's silly to judge that as we don't know it for sure (The Good) is silly. There are more than big fat clues around, and unequivocal quotes from the guys themselves. As well as reading body language and facial expressions (and interviewers' descriptions of those) of them in interviews, not to mention the audible evidence when you listen to ABB and compare it to other post-1983 albums.

Keith is more visible than oh say Woody though...

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the good wrote:

On this record, who the hell would have thought that Keith came up with the descending chorus in "Let me down real slow"? I bet if we put the question to all those who say you can just tell whether Mick or Keith wrote something, the vast majority of them would have said that only an idiot wouldn't know that Mick came up with that.

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Bloozehound wrote:
Why would anyone waste time argueing with someone whose posted here for almost 2 yrs and

a) can't figure out how to use something as simple as the quote buttons properly


b) can't even tell who is on the cover of Tattoo You

but your right Ian, your always right

(snicker snicker)

____________________________________________________________________________

Bloozhound,

-Have another Genny Creamale buddy-

I was wrong about Tattoo You. I admit that just don't forget all the credible posts.


Ian

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Mel Belli wrote:
Ian, Keith said in practically the same breath that "that one's more Mick than me, absolutely." The self-contradictory "half and half" is Keith blowing smoke. (He was talking specifically about "Let Me Down Slow" when he said that, by the way, not the entire album.)

There may be no persuading you here, but this should be obvious. Orwell said, "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." Ian, this is right in front of your nose.

There are 16 tracks on "ABB." Keith says he "laid" three songs on Mick. I think, in addition, there's a good possibility that Keith contributed significantly to "It Won't Take Long" and "She Saw Me Coming" -- but that's it.

Look, I don't know if you've ever tried to write a song, but fundamentally they consist of chords, lyrics and melody. If Mick writes all three of those components, I consider him to have written the song. What Keith calls "nuances and ideas" are like the "Happy Birthday" icing script on a cake that's already been baked. Mick has said as much in a previous interview, but declined (out of "politeness") to say so explicitly.

How do I know what Keith changed of Mick's? I know Keith better than Keith knows Keith. I can tell what he's played and written as sure as I can tell whether or not the sun is out.

But don't misunderstand: I think Keith did a great job on the album; the songs sound the way they do in large part because he played on them (rather than, say, the session yahoos Mick hired for "Goddess"). However, that *does not* mean he had anything to do with the conception of "Rain Fall Down," "Biggest Mistake," "Streets of Love," or whatever.

If you -- or anyone else -- are sure that Keith *must have* written *something* more than those five songs, by all means, let me know what it is. Give me a song title and a specific part: intro, verse chords, bridge, chorus melody - anything.

I'm open to suggestions.
[Edited by Mel Belli]
[Edited by Mel Belli]

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IanBillen wrote:
LOOK LOOK LOOK OPEN OPEN OPEN YOUR YOUR YOU FROGGIN FROGGIN FROGGIN EYES EYES EYES.....geez I fell like I am looking at a different interview here or something.

"Mick prefers to come in pretty much knowing how it's supposed to go ... or thinking he knows Ha! Mick's like that."

Now this remark. From the very same interview strongly suggests Keith changed alot of what material Mick brought to the table. Matter of fact it doesn't even strongly suggest, it is very blatent.

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IanBillen wrote:
Although you are very much entitled to your own opinion that is pure speculation just as mine. We never would think Keith wrote most of Heaven or Brown Sugar, either

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BOMH isn't speculation. Keith said Mick wrote it.

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Gazza the personel used on a track has absolutely nothing to do with who wrote the lyrics or who wrote the musical parts whatsoever. Who sings vocals on a song can also mean little.

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IanBillen wrote:
I agree Mick probably did a 60/40 album. However I feel Keith still had a good 40% here. I even think Keith added alot or changed things up on Mick based tunes here and there. Same holds true for Mick on Keith.

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Neocon wrote:
I think it's silly to talk about the music to "Back of My Hand." That song belongs in the traditional files as far as music. Sort of a reworking of "Parachute Woman."

So your view is the Keith stuff is:

Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow (Chorus)
It Wont Take Long
She Saw Me Coming
This Place is Emty
Infamy


So you don't think Keith did much on "Dangerous Beauty," "Neo-Con.".... ? Interesting.

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Mel Belli wrote:


Using "Brown Sugar" and "Ruby Tuesday" as examples of how it's hard to tell a Mick song from a Keith song is fine as far as it goes. Which is not far. In retrospect, it's obvious that Keith didn't write the BS riff -- there are too many chords in it! (Too many "piano" chords, too, like Eb and Ab, which Keith never uses on guitar.)

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the good wrote:


The example is relevant because the same thing applies to tracks on ABB like Let me down real slow; nobody would have thought Keith came up with the idea for the descending chorus in that song.

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Neocon wrote:
Oh yea, that opening riff on "Look What the Cat Dragged In," sounds great. You think that was Keith's or Micks? A real nice job there. You don't think "Oh No" and "look What the Cat Dragged In" sounds like they were both two songs strung together? That's just a feeling I have. Also, do you think Mick wrote all the words to "Driving too Fast." Again, I'm no expert, I just thought I was hearing different inputs on these. Could be Don was for all we know.

As for Keith not singing back up and all that, he doesn't on "Rough Justice," and Mick I believe plays guitar. I think Mick plays multiple instruments on Kieth stuff like Infamy. It makes the clues more confusing.

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IanBillen wrote:
Gazza,
Point being without Keith this album would be below scale. The guy is as needed in this song writing relationship as ever. Not hardly all washed up as many are saying so here.

Ian

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Mel Belli wrote:


As someone else mentioned earlier, Keith may have been referring only to what he played on guitar there, not the actual melody. It's hard to know exactly what the GW writer meant by "chimes"...

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