| 26th October 2007 06:03 AM |
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| Mathijs |
quote:
Philip wrote:
However, he did play soprano saxophone on Dandelion and Child of the Moon
Do we have prove of this? Until date, all brass and sax on Stones records are proven to be session musicians, and during the JJF/Child of the Moon sessions Jones wasn't really involved according to Wyman.
Mathijs |
| 26th October 2007 06:53 AM |
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| Mathijs |
quote:
zooeyglass wrote:
It's a pretty broad assumption that anyone who plays a single instrument could pick up any other instrument and figure it out simply because they have technical knowledge of music. None of the musicians I know would agree. If it were true, then it makes me wonder why Keith mentioned it at all in discussing Brian and seemed so in awe of this ability when he did. Go figure.
I am a guitarist, but I have recorded and/or played live bass, drums, percussion, harmonica, violin, mandolin, banjo, recorder and marimba. I think any guitarist with a notion of music theory can find a decent way on any of these instruments.
Brian was the first Rock and Roll dandy, a great entertainer on stage, and very well aware of the fashion of his days. He wasn't a particularly good musician on any of the instruments he recorded throughout his carreer other than the harmonica, but he had a natural feeling of the sounds and voices a particularly song needed. He didn't 'invent' all this (for example, he took the sitar from the Beatles, the marimba from The Beach Boys etc), but he had a natural feeling of blending these instruments in the music of the Stones.
Brian was great for what he did for the Stones, but from a technical point of view he wasn't a good musician. He even admitted this himself: he has stated that he becomes bored with any instrument after a while.
What I say is not to put down Jones in any way. Mastering more than one instrument is a gift only very, very few people have. Paul McCartney comes to mind, Steve Winwood, Chet Baker, but that's about it I know of.
Mathijs
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| 26th October 2007 06:53 AM |
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| Sioux |
Well, I, for one, don't make a practice of bashing Mick
and Keith. I have my problems with the way they both
treated Brian, and I will comment if I hear them actually
SAY something derogative about Brian. I do not have
blinders on when it comes to Brian. But he does not
get credit for HALF of what he did for the band. I guess
I'm just defending that fact. I don't hate Mick and Keith.
I don't hate anybody. I've bought Stones music all along.
I bought Bigger Bang. I followed the recent tour comments
and commentary on this site very closely. So, I really
don't hate them. I love Charlie Watts... I just don't
like some of the things M&K have said about, and done to,
Brian. |
| 26th October 2007 08:43 AM |
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| Philip |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
Do we have prove of this? Until date, all brass and sax on Stones records are proven to be session musicians, and during the JJF/Child of the Moon sessions Jones wasn't really involved according to Wyman.
Mathijs
I can't remember where I got that from...
Where is the proof that it is a session musician? Who is the soprano saxophonist? Where does Wyman say that Brian wasn't involved in those particular songs?
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| 26th October 2007 12:04 PM |
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| zooeyglass |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
I am a guitarist, but I have recorded and/or played live bass, drums, percussion, harmonica, violin, mandolin, banjo, recorder and marimba. I think any guitarist with a notion of music theory can find a decent way on any of these instruments.
Brian was the first Rock and Roll dandy, a great entertainer on stage, and very well aware of the fashion of his days. He wasn't a particularly good musician on any of the instruments he recorded throughout his carreer other than the harmonica, but he had a natural feeling of the sounds and voices a particularly song needed. He didn't 'invent' all this (for example, he took the sitar from the Beatles, the marimba from The Beach Boys etc), but he had a natural feeling of blending these instruments in the music of the Stones.
Brian was great for what he did for the Stones, but from a technical point of view he wasn't a good musician. He even admitted this himself: he has stated that he becomes bored with any instrument after a while.
What I say is not to put down Jones in any way. Mastering more than one instrument is a gift only very, very few people have. Paul McCartney comes to mind, Steve Winwood, Chet Baker, but that's about it I know of.
Mathijs
Mathijs, I'm still not necessarily convinced about multi-instrumentalism....but I do appreciate the spirit of your post, especially how you capture the essence of Brian's contributions to the Stones. That's exactly what makes me a fan.
I agree Brian's roaming interest did not lend itself to his becoming particularly proficient at most instruments he played. Except, yes, harmonica, but also add slide guitar [please!]. I think that, musically, what he lacked in technical terms he rather nicely made up for with style. |
| 26th October 2007 01:14 PM |
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| Sioux |
Style and influence.....and innovation... |
| 26th October 2007 02:23 PM |
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| oldkr |
Mathijs just pointed out that what he did was cool, but not particularly inovative
OLDKR |
| 26th October 2007 03:03 PM |
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| Philip |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
Mathijs just pointed out that what he did was cool, but not particularly inovative
OLDKR
40 years later it isn't...
Playing instruments like electric dulcimer with a slide on Gomper, the way in which he used the string sound of the mellotron on 2000 light years and the Mixed brass on We Love You etc etc WAS innovative at the time.
Just like Keith's idea to use a home tape recorder for some of his his Beggars era guitar parts was innovative.
You can bash Brian's personality all you like, but you cannot take away the guys ability to make new sounds work in pop songs. |
| 26th October 2007 03:38 PM |
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| oldkr |
"He didn't 'invent' all this (for example, he took the sitar from the Beatles, the marimba from The Beach Boys etc), but he had a natural feeling of blending these instruments in the music of the Stones."
OLDKR |
| 26th October 2007 04:01 PM |
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| Philip |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
"He didn't 'invent' all this (for example, he took the sitar from the Beatles, the marimba from The Beach Boys etc), but he had a natural feeling of blending these instruments in the music of the Stones."
OLDKR
What a revelation!? Guess what, those bands didn't invent the use of those instruments either, they too got the idea from elsewhere...
How these instruments were used is different, compare how they were used between those bands.
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| 26th October 2007 09:39 PM |
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| oldkr |
brian killed himself
OLDKR |
| 26th October 2007 11:33 PM |
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| GhostofBrianJones |
I think oldkr likes this thread. It gives him new meaning
to his posting!
What happened to that other thread where you were going to
the Queen or something and reveal secrets about Mick was it?
Or something like that. It kinda disappeared and I was just
getting into it. I was waiting to see what you were going
to say about it. I can't remember the whole thing but it
was really getting interesting.
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| 27th October 2007 05:08 AM |
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| Philip |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
brian killed himself
OLDKR
Crap come back.
Regardless, during the time Brian was alive he did great things musically and there's sweet f*ck all you can do to change that. |
| 27th October 2007 08:47 AM |
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| Back Street Girl |
http://cheltenham4u.blogspot.com/2007/08/rolling-stones-tour-of-cheltenham.html
http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=147472&command=displayContent&sourceNode=243687&home=yes&more_nodeId1=242222&contentPK=18720185
http://www.cheltenham4u.co.uk/cheltenham_brianjones.asp |
| 27th October 2007 12:18 PM |
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| oldkr |
I hardly regard playing the recorder and bearly playing the sitar as musically great. Mozart was musically great. Brian Jones is a footnote at the most. Accept it.
OLDKR |
| 27th October 2007 12:40 PM |
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| Sioux |
quote:
Back Street Girl wrote:
http://cheltenham4u.blogspot.com/2007/08/rolling-stones-tour-of-cheltenham.html
http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=147472&command=displayContent&sourceNode=243687&home=yes&more_nodeId1=242222&contentPK=18720185
http://www.cheltenham4u.co.uk/cheltenham_brianjones.asp
Great articles, thanks!! |
| 27th October 2007 01:14 PM |
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| Philip |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
I hardly regard playing the recorder and bearly playing the sitar as musically great. Mozart was musically great. Brian Jones is a footnote at the most. Accept it.
OLDKR
He obviously did a lot more than that, but it's equally obvious you have a bit of an axe to grind regarding Brian.
Petty comments about his life and death just make YOU appear sad and pathetic. I wonder if you are as 'funny' when members of your own family die or have problems!? |
| 27th October 2007 01:26 PM |
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| BriansBabe |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
I hardly regard playing the recorder and bearly playing the sitar as musically great. Mozart was musically great. Brian Jones is a footnote at the most. Accept it.
OLDKR
...the darkness hates the light... |
| 27th October 2007 02:52 PM |
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| BriansBabe |
quote:
stewed & Keefed wrote:
http://www.brianjonesfanclub.com/
[Edited by stewed & Keefed]
By the way, this is the topic of the thread here!!!!!
Well, someone have been there yesterday, hmmmm?
If so, please tell us, how it was and so on...that would be very kindly ... |
| 27th October 2007 03:19 PM |
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| Sioux |
Thanks for the reminder, Alex... Yes, please, if anyone
attended, we would love to hear about it! |
| 27th October 2007 04:37 PM |
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| Water Dragon |
A friend of mine attended and called me from the gig, I couldn't hear much of anything except guitars playing...however, today I was informed that the entire venue was "truly bizarre." Whatever that succinct comment reveals about either the event or the person uttering it is open to interpretation. I was informed that Roxanne, her daugher, Suiki, and hubby were there. Hubby performed and is, I am told, "nearly a Brian Jones clone." Once again, please note the quotes...I'm just reporting the facts, ma'am!
:-) |
| 27th October 2007 05:30 PM |
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| BriansBabe |
Thanks sooo much, Water Dragon!!!  |
| 27th October 2007 06:48 PM |
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| Sioux |
Thanks Water Dragon... A Brian Jones clone...would have
liked to see that... |
| 28th October 2007 06:47 AM |
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| stewed & Keefed |
http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,823956 |
| 28th October 2007 07:52 AM |
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| Mathijs |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
Mathijs just pointed out that what he did was cool, but not particularly inovative
OLDKR
I really think you have no clue on what I am saying. You really didn't understand me.
What I have been trying to say for years is: Brian's contribution to the Stones is fabulous, but he wasn't a good musician from a technical point of view -and this is something many Brian Jones fans do not seem to understand.
ALL bands in the 60's borrowed from the music that was made before them, with instruments that were invented before them. Sergeant Peppers couldn't have been made if Pet Sounds wasn't released a year before. Jones would't have picked up the slide if Hubert Sumlin didn't before him. Jones would not have picked up the sitar if George Harrison hadn't before him.
Jones wasn't a particularly good musician, but his additions are fabulous. He wasn't a good slide player, but his solo on I Wanna Be Your Man still raises hair after 43 years. His recorder on Ruby Tuesday is amateurish, and maybe therefore hauntingly beautiful. I personally find Jones' mellotron parts his best work, even though from a piano player's point of view it isn't exactly rocket science.
Jones was a typical product of the 60's, and I wonder if he would have fitted in the '70's, just like most of the 60's band faded in the 70's. The Stones managed to make a switch to '70's rock, if they would have remained the 60's band from Aftermath they're future would have looked dim.
Mathijs
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| 28th October 2007 12:36 PM |
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| stewed & Keefed |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
>>
Both Alexis Korner and John Mayal were playing slide in London in the late 1950's.
Mathijs
I have been a fan of John Mayall(not Mayal)since the early sixties and seen him play live many times but have never heard or read that he played slide in the 1950's.Where did you get this info from. also Alexis Korner when was he playing slide ?.
Still waiting for a answer. |
| 28th October 2007 01:06 PM |
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| Honky Tonk Man |
quote:
stewed & Keefed wrote:
I have been a fan of John Mayall(not Mayal)since the early sixties and seen him play live many times but have never heard or read that he played slide in the 1950's.Where did you get this info from. also Alexis Korner when was he playing slide ?.
Still waiting for a answer.
GO STEVE!  |
| 28th October 2007 02:02 PM |
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| oldkr |
Micheal Cohl did more for the stones than brian jones
OLDKR |
| 28th October 2007 02:16 PM |
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| stewed & Keefed |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
Micheal Cohl did more for the stones than brian jones
OLDKR
You really are a very sad person. |
| 28th October 2007 03:14 PM |
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| Sioux |
quote:
stewed & Keefed wrote:
http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,823956
Thanks for the link, Steve. SIGH....more controversy and
arguments. Maybe it's like this all the time on these
sites, but it just seems to me that anything connected
to Brian brings out the "uglies" in a lot of people. He
must have been an extremely relavant person to stir up
such passionate responses over 38 years after his death...
{wink} |
