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| Monkey Woman |
Wow! Was his accent better or worse than Jagger's, then?  |
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| glencar |
After 40 years of incredible contributions, this is what Mick gets? A paltry honor indeed. And believe it or not, those Kennedy Center Honors are no big deal in anyone's world. And if you don't like Blair, who do you like? He's the best thing to hit England since the Stones left. |
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| Gazza |
I dont like any politicians, with the exception of genuinely great statesmen like Mandela. Having graduated with a politics degree it's made me a cynical bastard. I don't think thats a bad thing.
Americans seem to love Blair for some reason - probably because its easy to do so because he supported Bush's "war on terr-ah" more than any other foreign politician did(which I dont have a problem with apart from the fact that he lied to the public to justify it plus he's not anywhere as hardline on terrorists in his own country). His hypocrisy is shocking.
Americans dont have to live every day with what his government is doing to THEIR country, so its easy to admire from afar. His government is full of spin and lies and no substance. Their record on this country's internal problems like crime, health, transport, education and asylum to name but five is beyond a joke. He's not called "Phoney" Blair here for nothing.
Apart from that, well he has a pleasant smile and he seems to like Mick,so I guess that makes everything alright.
What WOULD you prefer Mick received? from what I can see, the people who complain want him to receive nothing because its not very "rock n roll" and now when he does get something its a "paltry honour" ?
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
Well one doesn't really need to have degrees in politics to become cynical. Politics has ALWAYS been a dirty business, even on a local level. It's just that nowadays the politicians have technology and mass manipulation techniques (spin) at their disposal. Rock n' Roll (for the most part) teaches people to think for themselves, even though it kind of has it's own agenda too. |
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| egon |
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/showbiz/articles/7983809?source=Evening%20Standard |
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| glencar |
I think "Phoney" Blair was popular in the USA even before GWB took office. I've liked him ever since he came up with devolution which I'd guess is something you dislike him for. Since 9/11, it is nice to have a pol who stands by America. That he burned up a lot of political support is amazing. It makes me less cynical. As for Nelson Mandela, he's come up with a few doozies in the last few years. None of these people is perfect. I still admire Mandela because a few bad lines shouldn't erase someone's overall contribution. |
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| glencar |
And the "paltry honor" bit is just supporting Keith's side in this event. I sincerely dislike royalty of any nationality & the Windsors in particular. |
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| Gazza |
>I think "Phoney" Blair was popular in the USA even before GWB took office. I've liked him ever since he came up with devolution which I'd guess is something you dislike him for.
Nope...I dislike him mostly for the reasons I've stated earlier. Suffice to say, if you substituted Blair for Bush in your own country, I doubt you'd like him so much.
> Since 9/11, it is nice to have a pol who stands by America.
I've no problem with that, as I'm more inclined to support the link with the US for historical reasons than the one with Europe and always have done.
>I sincerely dislike royalty of any nationality & the Windsors in particular.
I'm not exactly a huge Royalist myself either but much of this seems like an excuse for Brit-bashing for the sake of it. No offence, but the internal affairs of a country you dont live in isnt yours or anyone else's business anyway.
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| glencar |
No offense taken actually which is why I generally don't take part in the stuff about his doings in re health care, education & what have you. |
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| glencar |
BTW Are there any royalists left over there? |
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| Gazza |
Yes..plenty. depends on what scandal is current at the time though!
The funny thing about that is that for all the monarchy/republican debate - if we had an election for a President and the Queen stood for it, she'd probably be elected anyway. I think people generally like the idea that the monarchy is an ongoing thing linked to our history and stands separate from the sordid spin that passes for politics.
I dont mind the concept of a monarchy and having them as head of state as long as there is a multi-tiered system of power where parliament has the real day to day power. Most people's gripe at royalty isnt the monarch herself but her bloody family and the fact theres so many of them and they have so much wealth and privilege. The Queen at least works for a living, however. |
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| glencar |
But when royals try their hand at an honest living they run into charges of cronyism a la Edward. |
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| Gazza |
yeah but no one really likes Prince Edward anyway...lol
well,not always. Prince Andrew didnt do himself any harm when he was in the Navy and saw active service in the Falklands |
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| glencar |
Edward does seem to be a poofter, not there's anything wrong with that! |
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| macawber |
just a quick comment-intelligence gathering is not an exact science,there is no clear black and white, guilty or innocent.
you take bits of information and try to develope a picture,sort of like looking at a puzzle with a quarter of the pieces missing and figuring out what it is.
you'll be burying your countrymen while you wait around for an absolute.
thats why we in america like tony blair-the balls to make the calls.half of europe could be missing and some of those jokers over there would still be standing around argueing over what to do next. |
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| glencar |
Or cutting secret deals with the murderous despot... |
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| keith_tif |
Stupid Sir Mick Jagger |
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| marcus aurelianus |
GAZZA WROTE :
"I've no problem with that, as I'm more inclined to support the link with the US for historical reasons than the one with Europe and always have done".
This actually disappoints me a lot Gazza( even though I know you don't care at all about what I may think ).I've always agreed with you in the past and present ( almost always!) but I think this sentence is a mistake .
This is the problem with the people living in the British Isles .
In a geopolitical and geostrategical point of view ,I think you are wrong . Great Britain will have to choose one day . For sure.
You should read "Land and Sea" by Carl Schmitt.
All the best.
(needless to say that I have friends in the USA)
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| Gazza |
>This is the problem with the people living in the British Isles .
In a geopolitical and geostrategical point of view ,I think you are wrong . Great Britain will have to choose one day . For sure.
Actually "the problem" isnt your concern, its ours. It's called democracy. I certainly don't tell you what choices people should make in your country so as you dont live in mine, its not for you to advise me on whats best for me because you know next to nothing of me or my background. Where I live, we're used to people from overseas pontificating on our affairs and advising us on things they know nothing about.
By the way,I'm not some kind of political idiot who doesnt have a clue whats going on in the world around him. I do have a decent education.
And I'll think you'll find that given the opportunity to "choose" the vast majority of people here would agree with me. I have a lot of reservations about US foreign policy and their government amongst other things but thankfully most of us dont forget those who helped us out in the past. That's a bond that I think is pretty hard to break despite everything.
No offence, my friend. I've been to France several times and I love the place and I like the French too (I know some people who go there dont think that way but I'm not one of them) but when it comes to making choices like that, it's not a hard decision. I respect the choices of people in your country. You should respect ours as legitimate even if you dont understand them. People make decisions based on what they see as their own self-interests, after all.
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| glencar |
And you know that if America is needed again(by either Britain OR France!) we'll be there. |
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| marcus aurelianus |
Gazza , I think you are Irish , are't you ?
I love Ireland , I have been there lots of time and talking to people ,I was (am) under the impression that the vast majority of the Irish are Pro-European ( more than you seem to admit). So are the Scotts . You are much more pro-Europeans than the English , for instance .
Like you , I make a difference between the Americans and the people who rule the country .
But the American rulers ( not only Bush,but also the previous ones) do not wish to have an independant Europe , because it would be a threat to their hegemony.
You said you graduated with a politics degree . Good .
But just one question : you know what is going on in Georgia ( not in America , but in Europe)...Chevarnadze had to leave his own country because of tremandous problems.Who teased the uprising ? Who is the man that is going to replace that Chevarnadse ? Who was he helped by ? Why is Georgia SO IMPORTANT a place strategically ?? Who has an interest ??
You know my answer .
And there are so many other examples, Gazza...
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| glencar |
Grow up. That revolution came from the people. The paranoia of some people is astounding. Let the USA know next time your tits are in the ringer. |
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| marcus aurelianus |
GLENCAR WROTE :
"That revolution came from the people."
Of course it did . But I am just asking : Who helped them ?
Glencar , obviously you know nothing .
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| Monkey Woman |
All this is very fascinating but is this board really the place for a discussion about politics and international issues? There are lots of forums and boards devoted to those themes. Could we please get back to the Stones, rock music, or maybe even beer?  |
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| glencar |
I'm going to take Monkey Woman's advice. MA is obviously just a troublemaker who has never contributed much about the Stones. |
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| Gazza |
>Gazza , I think you are Irish , are't you ?
No, I'm British actually. I live in Northern Ireland, which is part of the U.K.
>I love Ireland , I have been there lots of time and talking to people ,I was (am) under the impression that the vast majority of the Irish are Pro-European ( more than you seem to admit)
The Republic of Ireland would have a more pro-European leaning. I think maybe thats what youre referring to, and in that case you'd be correct. Different country and different culture (and also politically neutral for a long time) |
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| glencar |
In Dublin for the last set of concerts, I met a guy who said that the Irish have become insufferably politically correct. I said that the USA went through that same malady about 15 years ago & it still lingers. But he said that most Irish, if pushed, would agree that they're pro-American. |
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| Gazza |
I would generally agree with the pro-American thing, although politically they'll stay neutral as far as getting involved in anything is concerned.
The thing you have to get into perspective though is that anti-war and anti-Bush protests etc are always going to make the news simply because theyre by definition newsworthy. You can hardly do a news report on silent majorities who stay at home and dont get involved.
However theres folks on this site who,unlike me, live south of the border who would be able to give you a better perspective.
Ireland has done very well financially out of the European Community (as well as from US aid and tourism too) so I think there's a healthy bond with both, to be honest.
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| glencar |
And contrary to what MA thinks, most Americans don't mind if Euros stick together. It's when certain leaders stick their fingers in our eye just because of possible campaign contribution scandals that we get annoyed.
[Edited by glencar] |
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| glencar |
On Saturday Night Live, Jimmy Fallon reported that Mick asked the Queenie not to release any photos of his investiture so as not to annoy bandmate Keith Ricahrds. Then he (Fallon) gave a lame joke. |
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