| 21st October 2007 04:43 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
Hopefully Keith will still be Reeling n' Rocking at 81...
Don't think he's growing old gracefully either...
But still, he is or was, the King of Rock n' Roll. |
| 21st October 2007 04:45 PM |
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| Mr Jurkka |
King of something. |
| 21st October 2007 04:58 PM |
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| guitarman53 |
He'd still rocking at 81. amazing! The Stones can do it too, one thing Chuck Berry had, was a lot of respect for the Beatles, not so much with The stones, he punched Keith in the face once, & in the film "Hail Hail Rock N ' Roll" John Lennon's son was treated with the outmost respect, he just got pissed off with Keith. |
| 21st October 2007 04:59 PM |
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| Bloozehound |
the king of spying on chicks taking a dump |
| 21st October 2007 05:02 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Hopefully Keith will still be Reeling n' Rocking at 81...
If Chuck at 81 is anything to go by, I hope not! |
| 21st October 2007 05:08 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
I know Gazza, but at least he's still trying.
If Keith is that bad at 81, I'd still admire his effort.
But let’s be honest. If Chuck Berry were white, he’d likely be universally recognized as the undisputed King of Rock and Roll.
Now, it’s all a matter of opinion of course and there are those who think Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis, or others, are the kings of rock and roll. Actually, Lewis admitted (once, anyway) that Berry was the real king. I've got the evidence in the liner notes of Chuck Berry's 1979 album, Rockit. It was his last studio album. (By the way, try the Berry track Pass Away off that album on for size. Very different, not traditional Berry, and very cool.)
"My mama said, 'You and Elvis are pretty good, but you're no Chuck Berry'," The Killer says in the liner notes.
Fact is, all of these artists, and beyond, regardless of race, are great. And legendary.
But to say Chuck Berry is the king of rock and roll (my view) is no slight on Elvis, necessarily. Elvis did, by appealing to white audiences, make it OK or safe for them to delve into the black R & B and blues artists whom he and/or his writers used, in some measure at least, for source material. And black R & B audiences liked him, too, as whites did Chuck Berry.
The black artists appreciated Presley, much as blues legends Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf and others appreciated and paid homage to The Rolling Stones for paying homage to them and bringing the black blues to white audiences. There are many such examples in pop music if one cares to delve deeper.
One thing is beyond argument. Elvis didn’t write much. Chuck Berry did. Berry wrote almost every one of his many hits. Elvis fans counter with the argument that in his day, performers didn’t write many of their own tunes. That’s true. But Berry and Elvis were of the same era, rising to prominence in the mid-1950s, meaning Berry took it a step further and broke that mould. He wrote his own stuff, performed it and brought a certain guitar-playing style and sound to the equation, without which one could legitimately argue there would have been no Beatles or Rolling Stones to advise the white youth of North America that they had all this music in their own backyards in the person of the black R & B and blues source artists — but had chosen to ignore it.
So if you judge by the whole package, Chuck Berry is the king. That won’t change the mainstream view of Elvis being "officially" recognized as The King. It’s become an automatic appellation: Elvis Presley, The King of Rock and Roll.
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| 21st October 2007 05:11 PM |
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| Gazza |
you composed all that yourself and posted it within 5 minutes of my reply? LOL |
| 21st October 2007 05:13 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
I know Gazza, but at least he's still trying.
I think he gave up 'trying' about 40 years ago, to be honest. When you're so tightfisted you hire pick up bands in every town and barely rehearse, then you're just taking the piss. |
| 21st October 2007 05:15 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
Yes I can type fast!
But seriously, few weeks ago someone handed me a can of Miller Light at a party.
Okay, free beer, not a bad thing. Then I looked at the back of it. A picture of Elvis (pre-sequined) with a banner that read, "Celebrating 50 Years of Rock." That was not-so-okay with me.
The media proclaimed this year to be the 50th anniversary of rock. The person given the grand title of "originator of rock" is Elvis Presley because Elvis recorded his first song in 1954 and supposedly gave birth to rock music.
To say that Elvis is the originator of rock is a gross distortion of American history. This statement is not only a fallacy, but it is offensive to African-Americans. It is an established fact that rock roots came from former slaves. Since it was illegal for slaves to read or write, they inscribed their culture in song. This storytelling continued through generations to true rock fathers such as Robert Johnson, Big Joe Turner, Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley. These artists were creating music before Elvis. According to a Rolling Stone rock timeline, one of Joe Turner's songs was, "Shake, Rattle and Roll," already a hit in 1954 and later covered by Elvis.
I cannot totally ignore Elvis' talent, but let's make it clear what his talent was: adopting African-American musical styles. This may make him intelligent and entertaining, but not an originator. I mean, Isaac Newton discovered gravity, but he did not create it.
I admit Elvis did have one crucial element that helped bring rock to the forefront of pop music: his race. Of course he was going to sell more records and reach more fans. There were no boundaries to where Elvis could go. It was the travesty of the era that he could not appear on television from the waist down, but at least he could be on TV.
African-American artists were segregated from Caucasian artists. This makes it easy to give Elvis the credit for the work of many people.
Accepting claims that Elvis started rock assures us that it will eventually be "historical fact." Imagine Elvis in the history books labeled "mastermind of rock." This will continue to add to the white male-hero-worship cult the media love to promote. It also steals a hero from African-Americans.
Young children of every race deserve to see the inventions and successes of all cultures. Multicultural education should not be supported during just one month. Information about the successes of other cultures should not be given in little 30-second clips between reruns of "Friends." There should be hours devoted to bringing this knowledge to the public. This argument is not really about what one race did better than the other; it is about the truth. Rock music is a combination of many types of music by different cultures. This is about putting aside race altogether. To do that, pop culture has to include every culture - not just the culture with the most power and money.
Maybe you don't care about multicultural education, maybe you don't care about family origins, or maybe you don't care about Elvis (doubtful as that may be). But, if we allow this to happen, something you do care about could be the next thing altered. Here's an example: hip-hop.
How would you feel if in 50 years pop culture celebrated Eminem as the originator of rap?
It is 2004, and the music industry is still unwilling to acknowledge African-American musicians as major contributors to the rock genre. To do that would also mean acknowledging the original crimes committed against the African race. Then again, I guess that ends my whole argument. Europeans are responsible for the creation of rock. But it still was not Elvis.
[Edited by steel driving hammer] |
| 21st October 2007 06:14 PM |
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| Gazza |
Its kinda good netiquette when copying and pasting articles from other sites to credit your sources. |
| 21st October 2007 06:21 PM |
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| Joey |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Hopefully Keith will still be Reeling n' Rocking at 81...
Mick & Keith will still be Rocking n' Rolling at 100 . Word .
" .. BEST STONES YET Ronnie "
Jacky ! |
| 21st October 2007 06:28 PM |
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| Left Shoe Shuffle |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
I think he gave up 'trying' about 40 years ago, to be honest. When you're so tightfisted you hire pick up bands in every town and barely rehearse, then you're just taking the piss.
Saw Chuck last month, and for the most part it wasn't pretty - even with his St. Louis "house" band backing him.
Actually did Reelin' & Rockin' twice... 
Having said that, it was still great to be in his presence.
When he was exhorting the crowd to get their hands up higher during the House Lights coda, it was easy to imagine him doing the same thing fifty odd years ago - and getting the same jubilant response.
That moment alone made me glad I was there.
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| 21st October 2007 11:55 PM |
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| IanBillen |
What happend when Chuck punched Keith in the face? I have heard this before and I am curious on the whole story. Please fill me in and what was the out-come of this?
Ian |
| 22nd October 2007 12:31 AM |
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| mrhipfl |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
What happend when Chuck punched Keith in the face? I have heard this before and I am curious on the whole story. Please fill me in and what was the out-come of this?
Ian
Keith was at a Chuck Berry show and after the show Keith wanted to say hello to him. As Chuck was trying to leave Keith came up behind him and tapped him on his shoulder. I guess Chuck was in a bad mood because he turned around and punched Keith in the face. He was very proud of the fact that he didn't go down. Chuck's the only person Keith's never got back. "but maybe I'm saving it for later."
It's all in "Hail Hail Rock n' Roll."  |
| 22nd October 2007 02:23 AM |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
mrhipfl wrote:
Keith was at a Chuck Berry show and after the show Keith wanted to say hello to him. As Chuck was trying to leave Keith came up behind him and tapped him on his shoulder. I guess Chuck was in a bad mood because he turned around and punched Keith in the face. He was very proud of the fact that he didn't go down. Chuck's the only person Keith's never got back. "but maybe I'm saving it for later."
It's all in "Hail Hail Rock n' Roll."
__________________________________________________________
Oh. Thanks. Yeah now I remember the bit about Chuck turning around and may not of known who it was. I am assuming the story unfolded during an interview? I searched it on youtube.com to find that but didn't come up with that part.
Regardless thanks for filling in the whole story to me.
Ian
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| 22nd October 2007 06:14 AM |
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| GhostofBrianJones |
My friend Calvin's brother Jimmy Marsala plays bass guitar
for Chuck Berry. Has been for maybe 30 years I am not sure.
Cal's brother Carl was supposedly interested in buying one
of Chuck's houses here in St Louis. Don't know what happened
but guess he is still looking.
Does anyone have pictures of the band?
[Edited by GhostofBrianJones] |
| 22nd October 2007 09:49 AM |
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| gotdablouse |
quote:
Left Shoe Shuffle wrote:
Saw Chuck last month, and for the most part it wasn't pretty - even with his St. Louis "house" band backing him.
Can you elaborate on what made it "not pretty" ? Guitar playing, singing?
One thing that beats me is that he apparently written a tune in 40 years, hard to understand from a man who once was so prolific, well I guess you could say Keith hasn't done much over the past 10 years either... |
| 22nd October 2007 06:29 PM |
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| Left Shoe Shuffle |
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Can you elaborate on what made it "not pretty" ? Guitar playing, singing?
Both.
His playing, aside from the opening notes, was disaffected.
Don't think he played one song from start to finish.
Daughter Ingrid sang about half of 'em. |
| 22nd October 2007 06:40 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
Left Shoe Shuffle wrote:
Both.
His playing, aside from the opening notes, was disaffected.
Don't think he played one song from start to finish.
Daughter Ingrid sang about half of 'em.
Which goes back to my original statement...
He's growing old.
But instead of being in a rocking chair, he's on stage! |
| 23rd October 2007 10:43 AM |
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| MrPleasant |
Why go around punching people's faces? Why doesn't he just kick them in the groin and secretly videotape women when they go to the bathroom? |
| 23rd October 2007 12:15 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Which goes back to my original statement...
He's growing old.
But instead of being in a rocking chair, he's on stage!
it also goes back to my original statement. He's become an embarrassment.
Sadly.
[Edited by Gazza] |
| 23rd October 2007 12:26 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
mrhipfl wrote:
Chuck's the only person Keith's never got back. "but maybe I'm saving it for later."
Keith did kind of get even in a way. Maybe not for that particular punch. But Keith's the one that brought Johnnie Johnson back into the picture. No? Chuck must not have liked that.
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| 23rd October 2007 12:35 PM |
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| Joey |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
But instead of being in a rocking chair, he's on stage!
Yes my Baby Steelie ..........
He simply refuses to grow old gracefully because it would not suit him .
Baby Joe |
| 23rd October 2007 12:43 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
it also goes back to my original statement. He's become an embarrassment.
Sadly.
[Edited by Gazza]
Yes, he is embarrassing, but if Elvis was on stage at 81, he'd be worse! |
| 23rd October 2007 12:45 PM |
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| MrPleasant |
He's younger than Hugh Hefner. But he's not fat and impotent, like Larry Flint. |
| 23rd October 2007 01:03 PM |
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| east_river_trucker |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
But let’s be honest. If Chuck Berry were white, he’d likely be universally recognized as the undisputed King of Rock and Roll.
I don't think race has much to do with it. Look at the respect BB King and other black muscians get from the white community. The problem is Chuck has conducted himself as an asshole repeatedly, and it has effected his career. Mr. Berry has a lot of good reasons to hold a massive gurge against white people. But never the less it has hurt his career.
Watch the expanded DVD version of Hail Hail Rock and Roll. YOu will get a pretty good look at the man behind the scenes (and what an asshole he is) on the extras. It is a great DVD set for those who are into the roots of rock n roll. (And includes teh interview footage of Jerry Lee Lewis saying about his mama saying chuck's the king. great interview footage of jerry and other early rockrs. Jerry lee is the craziest mother humpin rock n roller out there.)
One of chuck's favorite things is to sign a contract and than the night of the concert demand more money (in cash) before going on stage, black mailing the concert promotors (white). You can only do that so often, even if you are the king of rock n roll, before promoters stop booking you.
I was at a Berry concert in Atlanta were he did that. After numerous stage anouncements and delays chuck finally came out and procedes to make the backing band look as bad as he possibly can, changing the key of the song after doing the intro or during the song itself without queing the band. Just generally being an asshole.
[Edited by east_river_trucker]
[Edited by east_river_trucker] |
| 23rd October 2007 01:09 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
True I agree w/ alot you say, but would it be fair to say that the reason why Chuck is an asshole is because he was the most stolen from man in rock n' roll?
The tightwad Mick would pissed too! |
| 23rd October 2007 01:14 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
....the reason why Chuck is an asshole is because he was the most stolen from man in rock n' roll?
That would be Johnnie Johnson. Noone "stole" anything from Chuck that he didn't steal himself. There's nothing new under the sun.
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| 23rd October 2007 01:22 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
There's nothing new under the sun.
Doesn't that line come from the book of Ecclesiatics (sp) in Bible?
My favorite book actually.
Short but sweet, written by the son of Solomon?
But Keith was right next to Johnnie once!
[Edited by steel driving hammer] |
| 23rd October 2007 03:18 PM |
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| Joey |
" Doesn't that line come from the book of Ecclesiatics (sp) in Bible?
My favorite book actually.
Short but sweet, written by the son of Solomon? "
W- W- What ?!
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