| October 17th, 2005 03:36 PM |
|
|
| Ten Thousand Motels |
COOPER WANTS TO BE DEFINED AS A PUNK PROTOTYPE
ALICE COOPER is eager to go down in history as the original punk rocker, insisting his music foreshadowed punk legends the SEX PISTOLS.
The NO MORE MR NICE GUY singer was a huge success in the early 1970s and feels his widespread acceptance means people often forget just how abrasive his records were.
Cooper - real name VINCENT DAMON FURNIER - says, "I was punk before punk, I was the prototype of the Sex Pistols. I even rebelled against rock 'n' roll.
"Most rock bands didn't like us because we represented the future - we did not fit in with hippies. In the 1970s we were bigger than (LED) ZEPPELIN, bigger than THE (ROLLING) STONES."
17/10/2005 19:46
|
| October 17th, 2005 03:39 PM |
|
|
| scratched |
The prototype Gary Glitter more like. |
| October 17th, 2005 03:49 PM |
|
|
| pdog |
I think The Stooges and MC5 hold those titles, along with dozens of obscure 60's bands. Cooper led more to Glam... I like Cooper but his version of punk led more to the NY Dolls... The sex Pistols were a cross between The Stooges, Dolls, Hank Williams and The Monkees. |
| October 17th, 2005 03:56 PM |
|
|
| scratched |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Hank Williams
Eh? |
| October 17th, 2005 04:05 PM |
|
|
| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
I even rebelled against rock 'n' roll.
Well....that's moronic. That's being as stupid as Adam & Eve in Paradise Lost. |
| October 17th, 2005 04:08 PM |
|
|
| pdog |
quote:
scratched wrote:
Eh?
listen to Steve Jones leads, pure country leads... Very cool. Hank Williams was very much the punk prototype. The Sex Pistols owe as much to greats like Hank as they do Iggy Pop.
[Edited by pdog] |
| October 17th, 2005 04:09 PM |
|
|
| gimmekeef |
Hey Alice...wake up and smell the stench of your new cd! |
| October 17th, 2005 04:14 PM |
|
|
| scratched |
quote:
pdog wrote:
listen to Steve Jones leads, pure country leads... Very cool. Hank Williams was very much the punk prototype. The Sex Pistols owe as much to greats like Hank as they do Iggy Pop.
[Edited by pdog]
I see what you mean now. The solo in 'Anarchy in the UK' is very country. Steve Jones also owes a lot to Chuck Berry, but that is more obvious. |
| October 17th, 2005 04:17 PM |
|
|
| Prodigal Son |
Well alright, Alice. We all know how punk "Only Women Bleed," and "Teenage Lament '74" are. He was more of a prototype for the shock metal bands of the 80s. His fashion sense certainly helped as did all of glam in creating the god-awful hair metal genre. (sigh) Did the punk rockers acheive nothing? |
| October 17th, 2005 04:29 PM |
|
|
| pdog |
quote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
(sigh) Did the punk rockers acheive nothing?
Punk changed everything, unfortunately too many think punk is one sound and look. They have no idea that in truth punk created the most diverse sounds.
Look at a few post punk bands, they're all completely different yet owe everytihng to the punk rock DIY attitude.
Bauhaus
Minor Threat
Gang Of Four
Misfits
Kraftwerk
Television
RHCP's
Butthole Surfers
There's a millon bands too name. These bands all came to be in the late 70's early 80's and all were going in different directions. The common theme is "punk", which is really undefinable opened the door for people who were sick of hearing The Eagles, Genesis, ELP and a million other pretentious and bloated bands. The only rules was there were no rules! You could be an excellent musician or just learning how to play, everyone was capable of being in a band, all it took was the desire! Alice cooper thinks he created that, bullshit! Teen angst and rebellion, which is a precious energy and the thing that makes us older folks shit ourselve, that's is what it's all about! |
| October 17th, 2005 04:37 PM |
|
|
| Ten Thousand Motels |
The problem with punk is that it sucked, not that all punk bands sucked, but punk as a genre has no staying power. Just like rap, punk has no staying power. Punk is just a bunch of wanna be rock n rollers who could never learn to rock. |
| October 17th, 2005 04:50 PM |
|
|
| pdog |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
The problem with punk is that it sucked, not that all punk bands sucked, but punk as a genre has no staying power. Just like rap, punk has no staying power. Punk is just a bunch of wanna be rock n rollers who could never learn to rock.
That is most generalized, uninformed and ignorant response ever! It's exactly what I was talking about. You can't describe punk, you can't even describe rock and roll. It's to big. I feel bad for you, whenever I read a response like that from a Stones fan, I wonder if you realize you just became your dad! |
| October 18th, 2005 01:50 PM |
|
|
| Egbert |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I think The Stooges and MC5 hold those titles
Good point - the fact that Cooper moved his band to Detroit before recording Love It To Death shows where he got his inspiration from. |
| October 18th, 2005 07:56 PM |
|
|
| pavlovs dog |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
...punk as a genre has no staying power. Just like rap, punk has no staying power. Punk is just a bunch of wanna be rock n rollers who could never learn to rock.
Rap or Hip Hop is now coming up on 30 years as a genre. I think that would be defined as 'staying'. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will be 'going' anytime soon. In fact Hip Hop seems to have infected just about every facet of teen/ young adult culture. Rock and Roll was only a totally pervasive cultural phenomenon in youth culture for maybe 15 years total (1957-1972)
|
| October 18th, 2005 08:33 PM |
|
|
| exile |
The original punk rocker
|
| October 18th, 2005 08:50 PM |
|
|
| purrcafe |
quote:
pdog wrote:
listen to Steve Jones leads, pure country leads... Very cool. Hank Williams was very much the punk prototype. The Sex Pistols owe as much to greats like Hank as they do Iggy Pop.
[Edited by pdog]
God yes! |
| October 18th, 2005 08:53 PM |
|
|
| pdog |
quote:
pavlovs dog wrote:
Rap or Hip Hop is now coming up on 30 years as a genre. I think that would be defined as 'staying'. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will be 'going' anytime soon. In fact Hip Hop seems to have infected just about every facet of teen/ young adult culture. Rock and Roll was only a totally pervasive cultural phenomenon in youth culture for maybe 15 years total (1957-1972)
I agree about Rap and hip Hop, but rock and roll is just as vital today. I see it all around me, is SF an exception?
There's some great bands out there, not all are on the radio, most aren't, that's the best part for me! |
| October 18th, 2005 09:00 PM |
|
|
| doo doo doo Dude |
quote:
Alice Cooper said:
"Most rock bands didn't like us because we represented the future"
Nope. They didn't like you because you sucked. |
| October 18th, 2005 10:29 PM |
|
|
| Egbert |
Great Iggy pic Exile. And there's Ron Asheton in the background looking like your average weekend hunter - maybe he's been hanging out with fellow Michiganite Nugent!
Ron was one hell of a guitarist - maybe not technically proficient - but he played with much feeling, and also played very inventive bass on Raw Power (mixed low by Bowie but really standing out on some of the alternate and live versions). The Stooges were much more than just Iggy - too bad he didn't realize it then.
[Edited by Egbert] |
| October 18th, 2005 11:39 PM |
|
|
| exile |
quote:
Egbert wrote:
Great Iggy pic Exile. And there's Ron Asheton in the background looking like your average weekend hunter - maybe he's been hanging out with fellow Michiganite Nugent!
Ron was one hell of a guitarist - maybe not technically proficient - but he played with much feeling, and also played very inventive bass on Raw Power (mixed low by Bowie but really standing out on some of the alternate and live versions). The Stooges were much more than just Iggy - too bad he didn't realize it then.
Yes true...Im not that familiar with the whole Iggy leaving the stogges story. Was that before of after Iggy apparently went into a mental institution? Well before the Iggy Bowie collaboration in Berlin anyway. I should read up on it would be a good read.
It’s good to see The Stooges playing back together. I heard somewhere they are recording a new album.
Are there many alternate and live versions around of their stuff?
[Edited by exile] |
| October 19th, 2005 12:25 AM |
|
|
| pdog |
quote:
exile wrote:
Yes true...Im not that familiar with the whole Iggy leaving the stogges story. Was that before of after Iggy apparently went into a mental institution? Well before the Iggy Bowie collaboration in Berlin anyway. I should read up on it would be a good read.
It’s good to see The Stooges playing back together. I heard somewhere they are recording a new album.
Are there many alternate and live versions around of their stuff?
[Edited by exile]
There's two new reissues of the first two Stooges albums with bonus discs. It is a must have for Stooges fans... |
| October 19th, 2005 12:44 AM |
|
|
| polksalad69 |
with a good drummer is a punk band still punk? |
| October 19th, 2005 12:53 AM |
|
|
| JuanTCB |
Hell yes - Paul Cook and Topper Headon say hello. |
| October 19th, 2005 02:56 AM |
|
|
| pdog |
quote:
JuanTCB wrote:
Hell yes - Paul Cook and Topper Headon say hello.
Tommy & Marky Ramone! |
| October 19th, 2005 10:26 AM |
|
|
| JuanTCB |
Bill Stevenson, Chuck Biscuits, and Arthur Googy, too! |
| October 19th, 2005 10:42 AM |
|
|
| polksalad69 |
quote:
JuanTCB wrote:
Bill Stevenson, Chuck Biscuits, and Arthur Googy, too!
hell yeah, Chuck is great. I was thinking of Steve Goulding. |
| October 19th, 2005 10:52 AM |
|
|
| Nasty Habits |
quote:
polksalad69 wrote:
with a good drummer is a punk band still punk?
Depends on where you put the New York Dolls.
Speaking of which - Pdog, your many points in this thread are excellent, although the New York Dolls were completely direct predecessors to the Sex Pistols - Steve Jones owes his guitar sound to Johnny Thunders way more than either Chuck Berry or Hank Williams (although obviously JT got it from Keith via these fellows), Malcom McLaren MANAGED the Dolls for a while and took all of the ideas he brought to the band from them, and there's a putdown song on Bullocks about them, a sure punk rock sign of influence. So if Cooper inspired the Dolls he inspired punk. Although I'm not sure about Alice's influence on the Dolls, I am sure he had an influence on getting them signed, so there you go. And considering Television was around before the Ramones, they're not post-punk.
But what I don't understand is why this is even an issue. Most punk rockers I know LOVE Alice Cooper's first Warner Bros. records, and the serious freaks swear by his Straight albums. As far as I was aware, he's already considered a "punk forefather" at ground zero. What's his problem?
[Edited by Nasty Habits] |
| October 19th, 2005 11:20 AM |
|
|
| exile |
Alice went cheesy. started bringing out cheesy crappy songs in the 80's
I'm sure he is just jealous he is not remembered as fondly as MC5, Iggy and the Stooges, Sex Pistols and New York Dolls.
songs like "Be My Frankenstein" are too cheesy to be forgivable.
|
| October 19th, 2005 11:20 AM |
|
|
| JuanTCB |
Great points, Nasty.
Regarding the roots/influences of the Pistols . . .
- Johnny Rotten loved Alice Cooper - he talks about it quite a bit in his autobiography. He auditioned for the band by singing (I'm using that term loosely) along to "Eighteen" on the jukebox of Malcom McLaren's Sex shop.
- Steve Jones stole most of what he knows from the Dolls, from the licks to the sound to even the guitar - his trademark white Les Paul Custom was even stolen from Syl Sylvain.
- I had the pleasure of interviewing Glen Matlock a few years ago and he told me that the entire Pistols sonic blueprint was "Borstal Boys" by the Faces. In fact, the early, pre-Johnny incarnations of the band were basically Faces wanna-bes.
- Sid, of course, just wanted to be Dee Dee.
But you gotta love how the Pistols' sound can be traced directy to Keith (via Thunders) and Ronnie! |
| October 19th, 2005 11:36 AM |
|
|
| Nasty Habits |
quote:
exile wrote:
Alice went cheesy. started bringing out cheesy crappy songs in the 80's
I'm sure he is just jealous he is not remembered as fondly as MC5, Iggy and the Stooges, Sex Pistols and New York Dolls.
songs like "Be My Frankenstein" are too cheesy to be forgivable.
And songs like "Butt Town", not to mention spinoff acts like Buster Poindexter, Chequered Past and Wayne Kramer's dreadful solo albums aren't?
|
