| 12th October 2007 02:01 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
Cow Flaps? Not sure what they are but I think a lot of adult stars are having them trimmed off these days. Jenna really botched hers up.
Cow manure in the field...giving off too much C02....causing global warming... |
| 12th October 2007 02:05 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
My worry is what else the "liberals" will target next.
Beer?
Ooooooooooh noooooooooooooo!!!!!
Secret footage of what Lugar does with his "BEER". . . we must stop this misuse of BEER. . . .to the Gorephone libs!
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| 12th October 2007 02:06 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Cow manure in the field...giving off too much C02....causing global warming...
I thought the farts were the cause? |
| 12th October 2007 02:20 PM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
You'll get pot legalized then two years later they'll be harping on the second hand smoke bullshit.
[Edited by Maxlugar]
Second hand smoke bullshit? Do you think carcinogenic, heart-clogging tobacco smoke cares which end of the cigarette you get it from? Second hand cigarette smoke kills. I have no objection to anyone ingesting anything they want--cannabis, tobacco, heroin, antifreeze--but when they start forcing it into my lungs, that's a problem.
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| 12th October 2007 02:25 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Second hand smoke bullshit? Do you think carcinogenic, heart-clogging tobacco smoke cares which end of the cigarette you get it from? Second hand cigarette smoke kills. I have no objection to anyone ingesting anything they want--cannabis, tobacco, heroin, antifreeze--but when they start forcing it into my lungs, that's a problem.
The second hand smoke issue has been based on junk science from the beginning. It is a nuisance and an irritation. To say it is as dangerous as the actual act of smoking is just not true. |
| 12th October 2007 02:33 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
The second hand smoke issue has been based on junk science from the beginning. It is a nuisance and an irritation. To say it is as dangerous as the actual act of smoking is just not true.
We should use poor sick kids to test this out, we can also see if this can be a way to torture. Poor kids, Americas answer to everything!
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| 12th October 2007 02:33 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
The second hand smoke issue has been based on junk science from the beginning. It is a nuisance and an irritation. To say it is as dangerous as the actual act of smoking is just not true.
 |
| 12th October 2007 02:38 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
pdog wrote:
We should use poor sick kids to test this out, we can also see if this can be a way to torture. Poor kids, Americas answer to everything!
The data is already there. No need to use the poor. Kids that grow up in households where the parents smoke have a slightly higher rate of disease. So slight it could be from other factors. They are certainly not dropping dead in droves as the anti smoking lobby will have you believe. |
| 12th October 2007 02:40 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Second hand smoke bullshit? Do you think carcinogenic, heart-clogging tobacco smoke cares which end of the cigarette you get it from? Second hand cigarette smoke kills. I have no objection to anyone ingesting anything they want--cannabis, tobacco, heroin, antifreeze--but when they start forcing it into my lungs, that's a problem.
Second hand Brainbell Jangler kills...
"I have no objection to anyone ingesting anything they want--cannabis, tobacco, heroin, antifreeze--but when they start forcing it into my lungs, that's a problem."
Even you have to admit this might be the dumbest thing you've ever posted
Boo!
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| 12th October 2007 02:41 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
The data is already there. No need to use the poor. Kids that grow up in households where the parents smoke have a slightly higher rate of disease. So slight it could be from other factors. They are certainly not dropping dead in droves as the anti smoking lobby will have you believe.
Let's use your newborn to test your theories. . . |
| 12th October 2007 02:45 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
monkey_man wrote:
Let's use your newborn to test your theories. . .
and we'll use your wife to test the "once you go black you never go back" theory...
You hung it...I hit it |
| 12th October 2007 02:50 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
monkey_man wrote:
Let's use your newborn to test your theories. . .
There not "My" theories. Even so do you have 20 -30 years to wait for the results?
But if you are indeed looking for a small personal sample, I can say my sister and I grew up in a smokers house and we both smoked ourselves and have no cronic respirtory illnesses. I remember those tear inducing car rides with the windows roled up. I guess we're just lucky. |
| 12th October 2007 02:53 PM |
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| Joey |
" I remember those tear inducing car rides with the windows roled up. I guess we're just lucky. "
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| 12th October 2007 02:54 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
and we'll use your wife to test the "once you go black you never go back" theory...
You hung it...I hit it
After we use your wife to prove that Stockholm Syndrome is real. . .you hit it |
| 12th October 2007 02:56 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
There not "My" theories. Even so do you have 20 -30 years to wait for the results?
But if you are indeed looking for a small personal sample, I can say my sister and I grew up in a smokers house and we both smoked ourselves and have no cronic respirtory illnesses. I remember those tear inducing car rides with the windows roled up. I guess we're just lucky.
I grew up in home full of second hand smoke...when I was 19, I ran a personal best 9:35 two mile...and never once ran slower than 10:15 (and I had never purposely jogged in my life)...I'd be real surpised if there were anyone here who could match those times...Based on my own study, I would say second hand smoke increases lung capacity...So I make a point to smoke around my kids
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| 12th October 2007 02:57 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
monkey_man wrote:
After we use your wife to prove that Stockholm Syndrome is real. . .you hit it
Well we can't do that...she's with that same black guy |
| 12th October 2007 03:01 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
...Based on my own study, I would say second hand smoke increases lung capacity...So I make a point to smoke around my kids
I'll say it again....you are a great parent, old pal.
I've started blowing bong hits into the lil' fella's crib this week. On this thread, that's a two-fer! Our kids shall meet in a Decathalon... |
| 12th October 2007 03:02 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
The data is already there. No need to use the poor. Kids that grow up in households where the parents smoke have a slightly higher rate of disease. So slight it could be from other factors. They are certainly not dropping dead in droves as the anti smoking lobby will have you believe.
All I'm saying is, put these poor kids in smoke filled rooms, make them work for healthcare. And if we find out the smoke is dangerous, we can do a major cigarette ad campaign in Iraq, and kill all these baby terrorists... pack up your bags boys, war is over! |
| 12th October 2007 03:04 PM |
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| wasted |
Im really vs second hand but posted this anyway- what the hell:
Just the facts, Ma'am" - Sgt Joe Friday
The Facts
Understanding
The Numbers
Statistics 101 Statistics 102
Studies
Epa '93 WHO Helena Helena Chart
Smoking Bans
And Businesses
Ban Links Ban Studies
Odds and Ends
The Truth Agendas More Info
US Players Welcome!
The Facts About Second Hand Smoke
(Finally)
(Note: We've recently added two pages covering the Helena study. It was widely hailed in the press as proof that smoking bans save lives, but with a little digging we discovered massive fraud by the authors. Find the details on the Helena page, and the Helena Chart page.)
The American anti-smoking crusade has been very successful. There are now more ex-smokers in America as there are smokers. But even after thirty years of constant urging to kick the habit, about a quarter of the population still chooses to smoke.
America was built on a live and let live attitude. Before the current crop of busybodies, do-gooders and nannies gained political power, we let people do what they like - even if they were hurting themselves - as long as didn't hurt anyone else. We'd only step in if an unwilling bystander was being harmed. That left the door open for the Second Hand Smoke (SHS) attack on smokers.
If SHS really is as dangerous as the government, political organizations and charities claim, efforts to prevent it and contain it might be justified. But is it dangerous? We're bombarded by endless proclamations of its horrors, claims that get more fantastic with each passing year. These claims are usually accompanied by impressive sounding numbers. Are smokers really hurting every stranger in the vicinity? The answer to that question is obvious once you know the facts.
We're not going to rely on hype or hysteria. We won't tell you we have The Truth. We'll just present the hard cold facts and let you figure out The Truth for yourself. Every effort has been made to verify everything on this site, to make sure it as accurate and factual as possible.
This site will not only make you an expert on the subject of SHS, but also leave you well equipped to deal with anyone using numbers to support health claims.
The Statistics 101 page will give you a good overall understanding of the science used to generate the numbers we hear so often. Statistics 102 explains common errors in epidemiological studies, and how to spot them. These sections may be a little difficult, but you'll find it's worth the effort to understand them. Once you do, you'll be able to understand the numbers and studies from all sources and on all subjects, not just SHS.
We'll take a detailed look at three SHS studies. The first, the EPA 1993 report, is the basis for most of the SHS legislation and restrictions in the US. Once you see exactly what they did, and how they did it, you may never trust the EPA again. The second study, carefully conducted by the World Health Organization, had some very surprising results. We've recently added two pages on the Helena study, including a look at the authors own chart. It provides a good example of the dishonesty and outright fraud practiced by the anti-smoker movement.
We make no attempt to cover every study of SHS, but to give you examples of a good study, two bad ones, and the politics that surrounded them. Combine that with the knowledge of how statistics work, and you'll be able to spot bogus studies with ease.
We also have several pages about how smoking bans effect businesses, including hundreds of links to news articles about bars, taverns, bingo halls, pool halls, private clubs and restaurants that are suffering, many to the point of closing, because of smoking bans.
Site Layout
Fact: This is a fact. Anything headed off by the word "Fact: " is a solid, proven, verifiable fact, presented as accurately as possible.
Comments on these facts appear above or below the indented text. They may contain opinions, interpretations, or explanations of the facts. If you're in a hurry, or uninterested in our comments, you can skip them entirely and just read the facts.
Terminology
Some of the phrases and abbreviations we use may be unfamiliar, especially to people outside the United States, so here's a brief explanation of them.
SHS, ETS - Common abbreviations for Second Hand Smoke and Environmental Tobacco Smoke. Both terms mean the same thing and are interchangeable. The term ETS is preferred in most scientific journals and studies, while SHS is more common everywhere else.
EPA - The Environmental Protection Agency, a US government agency.
CDC - The Center for Disease Control, a US government agency.
WHO - The World Health Organization, an agency of the United Nations
IARC - The International Agency for Research on Cancer, part of the World Health Organization.
CRS - The Congressional Research Service. The CRS is a research service provided to members of congress.
Epidemiology - A crude science used, and often misused, to gather information on health trends.
Statistics - The collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data. You'll need to know the basics of this science before you can determine the validity of most medical studies. Fortunately, we've provided a couple of lessons that will let you debunk (or confirm) studies like an expert.
Get Smartenized®
Read the
Quick Hitts Blog.
Listen to the
Quick Hitts Podcast. Note: The terms "Statistics" and Epidemiology" are often used interchangeably, including in a few places on this site. This is technically incorrect, as they are two different things, but such usage is common.
Nannies - Busybody activists. On this site it will usually refer to anti-tobacco activists, but it describes anyone who thinks they should be able to tell other adults how to live. It includes the militantly anti-booze and anti-meat and anti-fat and anti-SUVs and anti-anything-else-they-see-someone-else-enjoying.
Misc.
This site is designed as a starting point, not an ending point. If you spend some time on it you'll understand statistics well enough to do your own research and draw your own conclusions. If you use the opportunity, not just on smoking issues but on any statistical claims, you'll be absolutely amazed at how much bogus information is being fed to the public.
Although I retain copyright to these pages, anyone may use the text here, in whole or in part, however they like, with just one restriction: It can't be sold.
Anyone who stands up to the nicotine nanny's propaganda is automatically branded, by them, as a front for big tobacco. It is one of their favorite and most common lies. This site has never had any affiliation with big tobacco, whom I despise. I've never received any money from any tobacco company for anything. However, many years ago, I sent in a bunch of Marlboro UPCs and they sent me a T-shirt. It had a picture of a cowboy on it.
A Note About Inappropriate Ads
The advertisements on these pages help pay for this site. Most are generated by Google's AdWords program. Unfortunately, AdWords only allows me to block advertisers by their URLs, not by key words, and it limits the number I can block at any one time. As a result you'll occasionally see ads that are woefully inappropriate to the content here. I try to block out the worst offenders, but keeping the site completely free of them would be a full time job. When you do see an anti-tobacco ad, or an ad for an anti-smoker hate group, just ignore it.
© 2000 - 2007 Dave Hitt
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| 12th October 2007 03:04 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
I'll say it again....you are a great parent, old pal.
I've started blowing bong hits into the lil' fella's crib this week. On this thread, that's a two-fer! Our kids shall meet in a Decathalon...
I have no objections to my kids ingesting anything they want--cannabis, tobacco, heroin, antifreeze...It's when they start blowing second hand smoke in my lungs that's the real problem |
| 12th October 2007 03:05 PM |
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| Dan |
I am so glad they don't allow smoking in clubs anymore. |
| 12th October 2007 03:07 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
pdog wrote:
All I'm saying is, put these poor kids in smoke filled rooms, make them work for healthcare. And if we find out the smoke is dangerous, we can do a major cigarette ad campaign in Iraq, and kill all these baby terrorists... pack up your bags boys, war is over!
It's a good idea, if the liberals were patient enough to let it work... Ted Kennedy would have hearings on why Joe Camel lied to us about emphysema and how the Marlborough Man couldn't "connect the dots" to cancer. |
| 12th October 2007 03:13 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
I have no objections to my kids ingesting anything they want--cannabis, tobacco, heroin, antifreeze...It's when they start blowing second hand smoke in my lungs that's the real problem
Ah the dreaded Third Hand smoke. Yeah, they say it's just as bad as smoking itself. It tapers off and 4th and 5th hand though... |
| 12th October 2007 03:21 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
Ah the dreaded Third Hand smoke. Yeah, they say it's just as bad as smoking itself. It tapers off and 4th and 5th hand though...
No really man...I have no objections to people participating in all kinds of behavior that have immediate and quantifiable risks to their life and health and the life and health of others...my kids?...shoot man...they can do whatever they want...except subject me to second hand smoke...If I ever catch them smoking cigarettes in my presence...I will sit them down and sternly explain to them the absence of collateral health risks with respect to shooting heroin in their eyeballs...and hopefully, they'll make the right decision |
| 12th October 2007 03:27 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
No really man...I have no objections to people participating in all kinds of behavior that have immediate and quantifiable risks to their life and health and the life and health of others...my kids?...shoot man...they can do whatever they want...except subject me to second hand smoke...If I ever catch them smoking cigarettes in my presence...I will sit them down and sternly explain to them the absence of collateral health risks with respect to shooting heroin in their eyeballs...and hopefully, they'll make the right decision
I'm just gonna tell my kids to do whatever they want. Just don't do it at the Folsom Street Fair.
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| 12th October 2007 03:30 PM |
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| jostorm |
Miaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooow!................
And there's me thinking only us girls are catty.....
Actually, I blame it all on testosterone.
If the world's population all drank Tardak in their water supply, this would be such a more pleasant place to live in, smoking or not.
And don't get me wrong...
I feel your pain.
And the passion in your argumentation.
But that's no excuse to get personal in such a nasty manner.
And do me a favour: leave the women and the babies out of it!
They're probably doing something nice and creative and
smile-inducing with their lives.Like gurgling, or playing or cooking a nice meal.
Not vomiting bile in cyberspace.
Goodnight!
I am cooking a nice steak and vegetables for the family.
Have a nice weekend, everyone. |
| 12th October 2007 03:33 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
jostorm wrote:
Miaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooow!................
And there's me thinking only us girls are catty.....
Actually, I blame it all on testosterone.
If the world's population all drank Tardak in their water supply, this would be such a more pleasant place to live in, smoking or not.
And don't get me wrong...
I feel your pain.
And the passion in your argumentation.
But that's no excuse to get personal in such a nasty manner.
And do me a favour: leave the women and the babies out of it!
They're probably doing something nice and creative and
smile-inducing with their lives.Like gurgling, or playing or cooking a nice meal.
Not vomiting bile in cyberspace.
Goodnight!
I am cooking a nice steak and vegetables for the family.
Have a nice weekend, everyone.
 |
| 12th October 2007 03:35 PM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
jostorm wrote:
Miaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooow!................
And do me a favour: leave the women and the babies out of it!
Exactly! Shame on Monkey Man for bringing my sweet little innocent new born into this argument! SHAME ON HIM!
I love you Jostrom.
Feel on baby... |
| 12th October 2007 03:41 PM |
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| pdog |
There is an evil, far worse than smoking and second hand smoke... It's the thoughtless bastard who dash out their butts in the beer, and the unsuspecting people who drink that refreshing cold beer, only to get a mouth full of butt and cold ash...
Until we end this scourge, cancer will have to wait! |
| 12th October 2007 03:41 PM |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
Exactly! Shame on Monkey Man for bringing my sweet little innocent new born into this argument! SHAME ON HIM!
Maxy,
My apologies for crossing the line.
MM |
