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Topic: Black and Blue revisited Return to archive Page: 1 2
August 20th, 2004 03:46 PM
glencar Just so long as better Cds are in the changer!
August 20th, 2004 03:48 PM
Some Guy Oh yeah, you know how we do it. Just into this disc right now. Let it Bleed next!! Peace
August 20th, 2004 06:22 PM
Gazza >It doesnt sound finished on TY either! lol. It's just a frigging jam! What is there to finish?

The lyrics, for starters!

August 21st, 2004 07:16 PM
Some Guy Just got off the phone with a buddy of mine that wanted to know what album was that we were listening to last week. Black and Blue, he is off to buy the cd!
August 23rd, 2004 10:27 PM
corgi37 And, please note, B&B & IORR are the only albums where Charlies drums sound the way they do.

Listen to Memory Motel, or Till the next goodbye. He NEVER got that sound again. Such booming toms. I wonder why he never stuck with that sound? You can hardly hear his toms on some tracks.

Though i have never been a fan of Hot Stuff, the drum & percussion sound is fantastic.

Anyway, though B&B aint a total fave, i think it is a very brave record by the band. Every other big name U.K. band was trying to imitate Led Zep, mainly, i'm thinking Queen (later, many bands tried to be Queen) and U.S. bands either were Eagles lite, or hard rock clones, the Stones went in a totally original direction, and turned to the funky black side of things. Very brave!! Thats why i reckon they lost a few fans. Some pimply, white, middle class half-wit isnt going to dig B&B as much as say, Captain Fantastic, Presence, Frampton, or even (shudder) Aerosmith.

But, his girlfriend, and the cool black dudes with afros and combs in their afros, are digging B&B TOTALLY.

To me, thats why films like ALMOST FAMOUS are totally into the Led zep kind of thing. The Stones lost their white trash audience. But, gained black respect. I dont know where i read it, but that dude from Rage against the machine said nothing but good things about the Stones. Said they were the only white band black hard-core people respected. I dont know if it was him, but some one (might be a rapper) says B&B is mighty cool, compared with some of the glam crap that came out.

Do you all see what i'm gettting at? To me, B&B is just as brave as Some Girls. I mean, people went on in 78 saying "Oh, the Stones have sold out, they've gone disco with Miss You". Well, hello!!! Hot Stuff was 2 years before!

Yep, the Stones were a brave band. They could have made pale copies of LIT, SF, or BB, but chose to go funky. I know for a fact, alot of the 60's fans, completely wiped them after B&B.

Oh, um, that DJ guy. Carl somebody. Old black guy. King of the dj's or something. He cites B&B as a classic. Said so many black people adored the Stones for that record. Gave them heaps of cred. Apart from the stones, it was all white boy country rock, or white teen angst heavy metal. I think he said something like it was the only record of that era by white boys that was good to fuck to.

Hence, a white-bread dude like Cameron Crowe doesnt show the fanatical love of the Stones as he did to a led zep clone, or as he did with Cheap Trick or Aerosmith in his "Fast times at Ridgemont High" article.

As always, the Stones were not meant, and did not pander to, the teeny boy/girl market, like Led Zep did, or Aerosmith still do. No, their music was for adults.

I hope i have put my point across eloquently enough.

You know, i dont hate the record as much as i thought. I might play it when i get home.

Except for Cherry oh baby.
August 24th, 2004 12:34 AM
Bloozehound
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
Hence, a white-bread dude like Cameron Crowe doesnt show the fanatical love of the Stones as he did to a led zep clone, or as he did with Cheap Trick or Aerosmith in his "Fast times at Ridgemont High" article.

As always, the Stones were not meant, and did not pander to, the teeny boy/girl market, like Led Zep did, or Aerosmith still do. No, their music was for adults.




I don't care for Cameron Crowe flicks either, always thought of them as chick flicks, but just for the record there were 2 Stones references in the movie Fast Times...

I seem to recall one of the kids, Spicoli?, has a Tattoo You poster in their room.

Also, Spicoli's dream sequence where he wins the surfing tournament, and then says to celebrate he's going to fly on to England to jam with the Stones, and then invites those 2 bikini girls. Ha! I always liked that little scene, you know that's everyone's dream to go party with Mick and Keef.


[Edited by Bloozehound]
August 24th, 2004 01:03 AM
stonedinaustralia
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
The Stones lost their white trash audience. But, gained black respect. I dont know where i read it, but that dude from Rage against the machine said nothing but good things about the Stones. Said they were the only white band black hard-core people respected. I dont know if it was him, but some one (might be a rapper) says B&B is mighty cool, compared with some of the glam crap that came out.

Do you all see what i'm gettting at?





yes i do corgi

what you say about the stones black audience is intersting however - i've touched on this with nasty H and ~AzQb before but (and it was funny it seemed to happen around the time of black and blue)the stones african - American audience seemed to disappear at about that time

going on what nasty and ~A have said during '72 tour there was a good proportion of african americans in the audience by '78 they were almost non-existent and by the '80's the stones were pretty much a "white man's" band - i've posed the question over there-------------------> and got no response i.e. how many posters/lurkers are african american - none it seems

i agree 'tho the stones alienated quite a few fans (well to my direct knowledge) with the clear embrace of black musical styles over and above the accepted genres of blues and (what i'll loosely refer to as) R&B
August 24th, 2004 01:41 AM
Egbert I would imagine many of the black audience members of '72 were there to see Stevie Wonder open for the Stones. The Stones have always applied their formula to whatever style of music is popular at the time - by the mid-'70s funk, reggae, and disco were coming up and the band went along with it. So it's not such a big departure from what they had been doing all along - an earlier example would be Between The Buttons - a response to Revolver/Sgt. Pepper and especially the Kinks.
[Edited by Egbert]
[Edited by Egbert]
August 24th, 2004 02:11 AM
stonedinaustralia
quote:
Egbert wrote:
I would imagine many of the black audience members of '72 were there to see Stevie Wonder open for the Stones.



but wouldn't they just go and see stevie on his own account if that's all they were interested in - if they were just fans of stevie why do you think they would go and see him support some-one - i suspect the stones did have a significant afr/amer audience at that time

August 24th, 2004 02:17 AM
F505
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
And, please note, B&B & IORR are the only albums where Charlies drums sound the way they do.

Listen to Memory Motel, or Till the next goodbye. He NEVER got that sound again. Such booming toms. I wonder why he never stuck with that sound? You can hardly hear his toms on some tracks.

Though i have never been a fan of Hot Stuff, the drum & percussion sound is fantastic.

Anyway, though B&B aint a total fave, i think it is a very brave record by the band. Every other big name U.K. band was trying to imitate Led Zep, mainly, i'm thinking Queen (later, many bands tried to be Queen) and U.S. bands either were Eagles lite, or hard rock clones, the Stones went in a totally original direction, and turned to the funky black side of things. Very brave!! Thats why i reckon they lost a few fans. Some pimply, white, middle class half-wit isnt going to dig B&B as much as say, Captain Fantastic, Presence, Frampton, or even (shudder) Aerosmith.

But, his girlfriend, and the cool black dudes with afros and combs in their afros, are digging B&B TOTALLY.

To me, thats why films like ALMOST FAMOUS are totally into the Led zep kind of thing. The Stones lost their white trash audience. But, gained black respect. I dont know where i read it, but that dude from Rage against the machine said nothing but good things about the Stones. Said they were the only white band black hard-core people respected. I dont know if it was him, but some one (might be a rapper) says B&B is mighty cool, compared with some of the glam crap that came out.

Do you all see what i'm gettting at? To me, B&B is just as brave as Some Girls. I mean, people went on in 78 saying "Oh, the Stones have sold out, they've gone disco with Miss You". Well, hello!!! Hot Stuff was 2 years before!

Yep, the Stones were a brave band. They could have made pale copies of LIT, SF, or BB, but chose to go funky. I know for a fact, alot of the 60's fans, completely wiped them after B&B.

Oh, um, that DJ guy. Carl somebody. Old black guy. King of the dj's or something. He cites B&B as a classic. Said so many black people adored the Stones for that record. Gave them heaps of cred. Apart from the stones, it was all white boy country rock, or white teen angst heavy metal. I think he said something like it was the only record of that era by white boys that was good to fuck to.

Hence, a white-bread dude like Cameron Crowe doesnt show the fanatical love of the Stones as he did to a led zep clone, or as he did with Cheap Trick or Aerosmith in his "Fast times at Ridgemont High" article.

As always, the Stones were not meant, and did not pander to, the teeny boy/girl market, like Led Zep did, or Aerosmith still do. No, their music was for adults.

I hope i have put my point across eloquently enough.

You know, i dont hate the record as much as i thought. I might play it when i get home.

Except for Cherry oh baby.





Great post Corgi! For me Black and Blue is THE Rolling Stones album with soul.
August 24th, 2004 03:53 AM
padre Very interesting issue. This is the stuff I like on this board!
I wonder if the Stones themselves have forgotten this. I mean look at the special guests/opening acts from 70's to Licks:
70's: Buddy Guy, Junior Wells, Stevie Wonder, Billy Preston (with Ollie Brown in the band, too), Meters, Commodores, Furry Lewis, Wailers, Petr Tosh, Etta James, Prince, etc. There was bands like Eagles and Foreigner, too, but I try not to think about them...

80's: Prince, Neville Brothers, Tina Turner, Screaming Jay Hawkins, Etta James, George Duke with Stanley Clarke, Bobby Womack, Meters, Lee Allen, Black Uhuru, Living Colour, John Lee Hooker. There might have been as many white bands along, but their roots were in black like Stray Cats, (pre-Eliminator)ZZ Top, J.Geils Band, Santana, UB 40, Clapton

90,s: Robert Cray, Buddy Guy, Seal, Bo Diddley, Lenny Kravitz, enter Darryl Jones.
But along came Counting Crows, Spin Doctors, Bryan Adams, Blind Melon, Bon Jovi, Del Amitri, Andrew Strong, Big Country, Dave Matthews, Foo Fighters, Sheryl Crow, Smashing Pumkins, Black Crowes (now those shows I would've like to have seen!)

2000: Pretenders, Sheryl Crow, No Doubt, AC/DC, Cranberries, Counting Crows, Stereophonics, White Stripes, Elvis Costello, Strokes, Hives, Hellacopters, Primal Scream, Ryan Adams, Jonny Lang, Starsailor, Thrills, Therapy, Darkness.
The few black artists along were Toots and The Maytals, Solomon Burke, Buddy Guy and SHAGGY!
And I won't even mention Miss You in Toronto!
August 24th, 2004 08:50 AM
Some Guy Big ups Corgi, I agree with all you say except I really like Cherry O Baby! Play this cd around non Stones fans from start to finish and see what happens! Good stuff.
August 24th, 2004 01:21 PM
glencar
quote:
Some Guy wrote:
Play this cd around non Stones fans from start to finish and see what happens! Good stuff.



That's an experiment worth trying.
August 24th, 2004 03:13 PM
F505 The Stones frequently play songs from Black and Blue during tours. It proofs it's a killer album!
August 24th, 2004 08:04 PM
corgi37 Yep, i've played it for non-fans before, and many of them have liked it. Theire biggest compliment, and my biggest dislike, is "Wow, it doesnt sound like a Stones record!" hahahaha.

To this day, when i do mixed stuff for a party (this Sat is a mates 40th) i sneak on a track like Hey Negrita, or even Hot Stuff. I did this on my birthday last year. One of my ex's asked me if it was a new Stones song!

SIA - I agree the audience is now totally white, but what i meant was, many black musos appreciate the Stones for not only giving support gigs to black artists, but also acknowledging them when they pinched their songs. Remember, it took over 10 years, and a law suit, for Led Zep to admit stealing most of "Whole lotta love".

And, as i said, many black artists, from motown folk, to funk people, to rappers, admire the Stones for their true dedictation to what was current black music fashion.

So, even ignoring the 60's, we have soul and gospel on albums like Exile and IORR, Billy Preston taking over the sound virtually on Goats, IORR & B&B, the dirty funk of B&B, and the honest cover of Just my imagination. Remember, many critics and whiteys complained about the Stones doing disco (Miss You, but as i said, nothing about Hot Stuff), yet the black funk/disco community in the late 70's were sort of like: "Whats different? They've always been "one of us". I recall Bootsy Collins and George Clinton saying some thing like that. I cant recall the name, but some one (God, is it a blues guy or a soul/funk guy?) saying "Those cats (stones) can really swing".

Just look at the respect and credit Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Muddy Waters, Stevie Wonder and even Living Color, gave our band.

Remember, right back from 1962, our band have been trying to convert people to that "colored jungle music".

Well, its fucking worked for me! hahaha.
August 24th, 2004 09:27 PM
stonedinaustralia
quote:
corgi37 wrote:

Remember, right back from 1962, our band have been trying to convert people to that "colored jungle music".

Well, its fucking worked for me! hahaha.



and me too

& for me, notwithstanding their great body of original works, that is their greatest achievement

i also threw a party a few months back and put on B&B and yes some peole said who is that - there was a clutch of "youngsters" there (milky bar dreadlock pot head types)and they thought it was excellent - theparticularly the funkier "black" stuff - i.e. Hot Stuff / Hey Negrita
August 25th, 2004 12:56 AM
Egbert
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:


but wouldn't they just go and see stevie on his own account if that's all they were interested in - if they were just fans of stevie why do you think they would go and see him support some-one - i suspect the stones did have a significant afr/amer audience at that time





Good point, SIA - maybe it was the first time in a while he had been out on the road. While grasping for a reason for the drop in black fans over time I completely overlooked the fact that in '72 the Stones were peaking and playing music of such a (pardon the pun) high quality as to appeal to all music lovers, regardless of background.
[Edited by Egbert]
August 25th, 2004 10:02 PM
corgi37 SIA wrote:

i also threw a party a few months back and put on B&B and yes some peole said who is that - there was a clutch of "youngsters" there (milky bar dreadlock pot head types)and they thought it was excellent - theparticularly the funkier "black" stuff - i.e. Hot Stuff / Hey Negrita


Well done! And yeah, i hate those fucking youngsters you mention. We need another Nam for that lot!

I actually played Hey Negrita last night. What a marvellously wicked track. Definate album highlight for me. And Melody. Both great, fun tracks.
August 25th, 2004 10:30 PM
stonedinaustralia that's a bit harsh corgi - although "the milky bar dreadlocks" are a bit hard to take
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