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| Scot Rocks |
I know this has beem brought up a 1000 times, however I am having some first hand experience of how this could be stopping more potential fans - especially younger - going to see the Stones. It took me ages to persuade anyone to go down to London to see the Stones in Twickenham and for the show in Glasgow, even the opportunity to see the Stones up close has not been an incentive for many people.
Even people I thought to be pretty big fans are not going as the price is far too much for a concert. If the prices were a little lower the people who casually like the Stones and could become bigger fans if they saw them in concert would increase. Some of you may say, well its better that just the hardcore fans get to go because of the better atmosphere, however the majority of the hardcore fans are older and speaking as a younger fan, I feel that the younger generation are put off the Stones because of the prices as they don't have as much money, generally, to play around with.
As a result the Stones are losing out on expanding a more hardcore younger fanbase, who now look to other groups, who they feel they can afford to see and view the Stones as a band who are not catered for their age group and thus alienating them.
Just wondering what you think about this?
Cheers
Mark |
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| jb |
It too late in the game for the young fans...they lost that opportunity to Aerosmith and U2 a long time ago. |
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| Boomy |
That is true. When Aerosmith got back together after a short break-up, Run DMC brought them back to the MTV generation and they still continue to get play on MTV and their singles are played on the radio. Not that they are all good, but they appeal more to younger rock fans (i.e, they are on tour with Kiss). Tickets for their shows are very affordable for young fans as well, I think their highest ticket price is around $75-80 (although, this Aerosmith-Kiss tour has expensive seats, mostly because of Kiss). In a story I read in the paper yesterday, Joe Perry even said he can't believe the Stones don't get much airplay as they do.
As for the Stones, I don't even think they care about the younger fans. They don't have to. People are still going to their shows no matter what. Some people say "Well, they've earned it." I guess that is true, since people are going to the shows. But I don't see so many for next tour, especially with sound complaints, some mishaps, and especially if the prices will be the same and even more expensive.
I am sure 16 to 20 year olds would love to go to a Stones show. But, they'd rather pay a good price for a up and coming band then to pay $50 for high rise seats at Turner Field and Gillette Stadium and see what is starting to become a nostalgia act (which, IMO, they've been for years, and they don't admit it). |
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| jb |
Remember, the Stones attendance has steadily declined while ticket prices steadily go up...the young people think of them as a joke and are much more inclined to listen to Led Zepplin, Aerosmith and U2. |
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| sandrew |
Scot -- I agree with your observation and have for a long time. If they kept their top prices at around $75-80, they'd have no problem selling out stadiums.
As for Aerosmith, I just saw the tour when it stopped in Northern Virginia recently, and they were quite good. (Kiss, meanwhile, sucked ass.)
And, by the way, there were hardly any young people in the audience, so it's probably not accurate to say Aerosmith is trying to appeal to Gen X and Y by touring with a joke dinosaur act like Kiss. They're making an all-blues album, too. Again, hardly a young draw.
I've noticed Aerosmith has been slagging the Stones of late, which I don't understand. Steven Tyler is an admixture of Mick and Keith; their whole schtick is owed to the Stones (while their sound owes as much to Zeppelin).
I don't know what Perry is complaining about: They DO get more airplay than the Stones. If it weren't for classic-rock radio, the Stones wouldn't be on the radio at all.
(The Beatles, incidentally, are hardly EVER on the radio, except on niche morning shows like "Beatles For Breakfast" and the like. That's a consolation.)
But back to ticket prices: The Stones -- or, at least, Mick -- seem content to have empty seats because they're lapping up so much cash from the premium seats, which have always sold well, thanks to all the affluent baby boomers out there.
I've come across overconfident quips from Keith -- "playing to 80,000 people is a real shot in the arm," "get a ticket -- if you can," and statements like that. I'm not sure how aware he is of the day-to-day business numbers, certainly not to the degree Mick is.
I get the feeling that when hits the stage, he's loaded off his keyster, the house lights are down, and it could just as easily be the glory days of 1989. |
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| jb |
Correct Sandrew....80,000 is a complete exaggeration..more like 15,000 indoors and 42,780 outdoors. Keith, like all mega stars, has only yes men around him...do you think anyone would have the balls to tell him his playing really has sucked this tour...I'm sure Jagger is painfully aware how bad Ronnie and Keith sound and he probably surreptitiously has the mix lowered..... |
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| sandrew |
Yep, JB, Mick is one savvy mofo, and I'm sure he has no illusions about anything -- whether empty seats or bad playing.
I never thought I'd say this, but I wish he'd play more guitar onstage. Maybe then, we'd have some rhythm guitar, instead of the thready chopping and the occasional lame lead line from Keith and Ronnie.
Ancient form of weaving? Ha! It's more like the ancient sound of silence these days, alas. |
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| Boomy |
Well what about Keith's quote about the new material they have for an album: "It's the best STones yet."
Is Keys to your love and Stealing my heart the implication of what is to come? If it is, it's poor-man's Stones, it's going through the motions, not "the best Stones yet".
To me, it seems like Keith has moved into the "marketing" aspect like Mick did 15-20 years ago with that kind of talk.
But I hope the new stuff isn't like the new stuff on Forty Licks. As for Aerosmith, ask anyone around 18 years old who they would like better...."the guys that play 'Love In an Elevator'" is what you'll hear. Why? "Because I love the video." But what about the Stones, man? "You mean those old dudes?!?! No way, mahn! They, like, played when my dad liked music and stuff.." |
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| Gazza |
Scot- I've been saying the same thing for years.
If they only target an audience with a certain wage bracket, then it follows that they're going to exclude almost entirely a younger fanbase, which is a shame and something which is only detrimental to their reputation and their legacy.
And people wonder why hardly anyone under 25 or 30 knows anything about the band and cant relate to them? Simple - they cant afford to see them.. |
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| Navin |
"It's the best STones yet."
Its been said over and over
Steel wheels
Voodoo Lounge
B2B..and now... |
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| sandrew |
I'll never forget a cynical Kurt Loder - otherwise a big Stones fan - referring to the recently released B2B, saying, "their best album in years."
Not "since Tattoo You or Some Girls or Exile" or whatever. Just "years." I think I knew what he meant, even though I think "Bridges" was indeed their best album in, say, 16 years.
But I tire of hearing of the Stones making a comeback. They never really left, so can the hype, I say. |
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| jb |
Look, we are die-hards so we have a right to be hard on them..of course we continue to go and spend...our criticism is really a defense mechanism against the painful reality of their decline...we feel bad b/c they are so important to us and yet are viewed as has been or jokes to the masses and it hurts us....we don't have the legacy of the Beatles, LZ, Hendrix or even PinkFloyd ....an the fact that they are not even cosidered in the top bands of all time in most recent polls is quite devastating to us-the fans who know that from 69-74 no band could even come close....I'll even say from 75-81 they were still the greatest.....Unfortunately the long lay-off from 83-89 took it's toll on their ability to relate to one another-Mick and Keith continues to go their separate ways and the albums were just ordinary...I too remmeber the african-american V.J. on MTV saying that "Steel Wheels" was supposedly as good as 'Exile"(what was that guys name again ..he had a modified afro and was older than the other V.J.'s)...we all were excited tpo get any product and the fact they began the massive tour to re-claim their crown was so fucking exciting we all were overwhelmed...the reality, however, was that SW was very marginal and they began what I call the Vegas Stones period...the back-up singers, synthesizers, too much brass, less guitars, totally choreographed show....we loved it..it was the Stones-but we all know it never was the same....then Vodoo Longue-a really good product b/c they supposedly actually recoreded a lot of it together in gazz'a homeland of Ireland...the tour started off slow but then became the highest grossing ever...however, one could not deny the sound was really changing as rockers like Heartbreaker and Rocks off were quite simply embarassing...Next we have the really mediocre to bad B2b....another massive tour with Ronnie not even present....the only thing steady throughout is Mick...Keith is more concerned with kicking and posing in his leopard jacket than playing....the stadium shows are not selling out although the 3's are certainly respectable....then we get the so called big treat in 99-the No Security arena tour-firt arena tour since 72...we all know deep inside this was to make some extra cash and that they chose arenas b/c they could not play stadiums except in major markets....the sound on this tour was atrocious....no guitars....and Chuck has effectively taken over the band......And now, the licks tour...grand idea to celebrate 40 years,,,a poorly timed release of the album so we don't get a #1 even though it sells 350k copies which on any other week would be #1-but we release it against fat Elvis' #1's!!! ..Next, an ill concieved press conference with a bunch of older men in a yellow blimp--did not get the press coverage it should have..Macca dominates ....the tour starts out strong as Ronnie is supposedly back-from a corpse to a semi-conscious player and we are thrilled...Keith continues to decline and cannot get the opening chords of Brown Sugar or SFM correct to this date, yet bashes Mick who somehow keeps getting better....the sound has been getting progressively wose and worse...no guitars...heavy horns and chuck.....and then they have Justin Timberlake join them in front of the world!!!!!!!!! Do we have a right to be angry..yes...are the 4 new songs on Licks garbage-yes...I'm I having serious marital issues-yes! Is my secretary hotter than anyone youy have ever fucked-yes!!! |
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| Joey |
" Do we have a right to be angry..yes...are the 4 new songs on Licks garbage-yes...I'm I having serious marital issues-yes! Is my secretary hotter than anyone youy have ever fucked-yes!!! "
There There There my Joshy ...........................
Why so irritable today sweetheart ?
Come to Joey .......................
Kins
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| twicks1 |
Sounds like you're close to the breaking point, jb. I have serious issues with you polluting this board with your non-stop moaning...but as John Goodman says in "Raising Arizona," I'd rather light a candle than curse your darkness.
I don't know you personally, but judging by your posts, you are are placing an unhealthy amount of importance on the Stones and their place in the all-time rock pantheon of greats. Why do you have so much personally invested in the Stones being the all-time, best-playing, highest-grossing band with the most respect around the world? If you get a kick out of the band once in a while, that should be enough. Take your pleasures where you can.
It might be best if you slowly began to accept the fact that the Stones are in a slow -- but still enjoyable -- decline. They have done it all, and if it is their desire to keep touring, recording and working as an active unit, surely you cannot deny them the right to do whatever they please. They've certainly earned it.
The problem isn't the Stones, it's you. I hate to use a cliche, but it IS only rock n' roll. Lighten up.
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| jb |
I admitted as much above...I do have a lot personally invested in the band...I derive a great deal of self worth being associated with the Stones...they have been , with the exception of my children, the most important thing to me....as you correctly point out, their slow, but steady decline has been devastating to me on a personal basis...I always felt special loving the Stones and knowing that they were the best....their decline has made me feel less important as a human being and severely depressed. |
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| Joey |
" their decline has made me feel less important as a human being and severely depressed. "
You make Joey weep for the future .
Snarky !
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| twicks1 |
I struggle with the same things, jb. And I feel for you.
But good lord, man! They've given you nearly 40 years of top quality stuff! Can you really expect much more?
Just adjust your expectations a little, and you'll find that you can still enjoy what the 2003 Stones have to offer.
Stop expecting the next Beggars or Exile...and just look forward to the next enjoyable effort along the lines of Black and Blue or Voodoo Lounge, eh?
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| jb |
The fact is that until I found these various sites, it was not something I thought about on a day to day basis. But for the last few years, the fact that they have been constantly touring and having this forum to as you put it "pollute", has really become obsessive. You are correct, however, in your assessment to enjoy them for what they are, not what they were....still hard to accept .... |
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| Boomy |
quote:
twicks1 wrote:
But good lord, man! They've given you nearly 40 years of top quality stuff! Can you really expect much more?
With that kind of quote, and another favorite of mine "Geez, give 'em a break, they are 60 YEARS OLD!!", it's almost like an implication that they should retire.
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| twicks1 |
I hear you. And I think most forms of entertainment (movies, music, sports) were a lot more enjoyable before the rise of the Internet. Now, people bored at work like you and I can't resist overanalyzing every little thing, reading setlists and spoilers all day.
I bet nobody complained about boring setlists back in the '70s and '80s. All they knew is what they experienced firsthand at the concert they attended. And it was all a magnificent surprise, unlike now, where we know every tune the Stones are going to play before they even walk onstage. And in what order, too.
If I didn't read online about how poorly Keith and Ron were playing these days, I would be none the wiser. The two shows I saw this tour (Detroit and Cleveland) were both spectacular.
Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.
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| jb |
Excellent point....in my 30 plus years of going to concerts, I never once even thought about a set-list. We went to a show to hear great music, party, and have a great time. Today, the spontaneity is all but gone...sometimes technology is not necessarily a good thing..lol |
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| Boomy |
Some people say "WE are very lucky that this band is still on tour.."
I say, "No Way"..the lucky ones were the people that got to see them in the days when they were rough and tough, when the sound was bad because they were hard nosed, didn't take shit from people, they didn't have some composer with them running the show, with 5 trumpet players and 3 back up singers!!!!!!!!!!
I just wish I could've seen a '73, '75, or '81 show. And I don't understand why they had to change with age. I mean, B2B has some cool songs on it, but 3 of 4 from Forty Licks are songs that are strictly for Casey Casem's Top 40 countdown on a Sunday morning. They are cheesy, lame, and have no Stonesy feeling's to them. |
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| jb |
cORRECT bOOMY...HAVING SEEN THEM IN EVERY TOUR SINCE 75, IT FIRST STARTED IN 81.....TODAY, THEY ARE A CABARET ACT....LOOK AT KEITH'S WARDROBE-HE LOOKS LIKE LIZA MINELLI.... |
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| twicks1 |
I wish "Don't Stop" had made Casey's countdown. I seriously thought it was going to be their first bona fide radio hit in God knows how long. Silly me. |
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| Boomy |
So, do you think the next album is going to be good? |
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| Joey |
" Excellent point....in my 30 plus years of going to concerts, I never once even thought about a set-list. We went to a show to hear great music, party, and have a great time. Today, the spontaneity is all but gone...sometimes technology is not necessarily a good thing..lol "
You posit an extremely interesting analysis ... Jacky ! .....that merits a complete understanding not only of the basic rudimentary skills of ..... Jacky ! ......total comprehension but a sensate ability to detail one's very own cognizant milieu ........Jacky ! ..........Wait !!!!! What the Hell is going on here ?????????????..................Jacky ! ..........................Oh NO !!!!! Not HERE !!!!!! ........... Not NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get ready , here it COMES :
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Kins !
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| jb |
No.............Jacky |
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| Joey |
" No.............Jacky "
Josh , at our weekly Team Meeting yesterday , my Director asked me to chime in on what I thought about a new " Cost Saving Opportunity " that the company was implementing and I stood up and said :
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ JACKY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
No one in the room said a word for one minute after that and my boss just looked at me like I was Michael Jackson or something .
" A True Story Ronnie "
Shiver ............................
Developing ........................
Jacky !
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| Boomy |
Will you buy it....................BACKY!!!
Sorry, Skittles, couldn't help myself?
Joey, you still down with the Skittles?? |
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| twicks1 |
"So, do you think the next album is going to be good?"
Judging by the stuff on 40 Licks, it's not going to be a radical departure from Voodoo or Babylon, both of which I loved. So I guess my answer is yes, I have high hopes for the next studio album. Or maybe I should say, reasonable expectations.
On those albums, the quality of the production, guitar sounds and Mick's singing are all so high, I find even the not-so-great tunes enjoyable strictly on a performance/sound level, you know?
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