| August 17th, 2005 03:15 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
quote:
Hannalee wrote:
Quick reality check: Denmark, Norway, Belgium, France and the Netherlands are not east of Germany, and they were all invaded before Churchill got going. I'm not sure you quite grasp the concept of allies, either....
and they were all invaded after Britain picked a fight (note, who declared war on who) on supposed behalf of a nation who they sold out as fast as they could
makes you wonder who Churchill was fighting for? certainly it was not Poland or the British Empire |
| August 17th, 2005 04:17 PM |
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| BILL PERKS |
THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD..SO MANY TO REMEMBER
THE GALLAGHER BROS.
BILL WYMAN
DAVID BECKHAM
GUY RITCHIE
THE BUTCHER FAMILY ON THE EASTENDERS
THE MITCHELL BROS
REG DWIGHT
JAMES PHELGE
TOM KEYLOCK
RINGO
MICHAEL CAINE
ANTHONY HOPKINS
DIM FROM CLOCKWORK ORANGE
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| August 17th, 2005 04:33 PM |
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| Joey |
George Harrison
Ringo Starr
Graham Nash
Robert Plant
Jimmy Page
John Houseman
John Gielgud ( Gay )
Tanya Roberts
Christi Shake
Sid Glick
Ben Franklin
Gale Sayers
Marty Schottenheimer
Mel Brooks
Don Rickles
Alan King
Don King
Larry King
Tony Randall
......................................................
[Edited by Joey] |
| August 17th, 2005 04:39 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
quote:
Joey wrote:
George Harrison
Ringo Starr
Graham Nash
Robert Plant
Jimmy Page
John Houseman
John Gielgud ( Gay )
Tanya Roberts
Christi Shake
Sid Glick
Ben Franklin
Gale Sayers
Marty Schottenheimer
Mel Brooks
Don Rickles
Alan King
Don King
Larry King
Tony Randall
......................................................
[Edited by Joey]
WTF?!?!?! Don King ain't no brit.... is he?!?!?
Puzzled.... |
| August 17th, 2005 05:21 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
Tony Randall?!? |
| August 17th, 2005 05:40 PM |
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| sammy davis jr. |
If it smells like a Jew list...... |
| August 17th, 2005 05:59 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
I wish I can still get hot women like Tony Randall did when I hit 70!! |
| August 17th, 2005 06:31 PM |
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| the good |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
tell that to the victims of Brit oppression....I am sure they will be comforted by knowing they had their land stolen, their language suppressed, and their families deported by the Empire that was morally better
right
OK now
Cazart!!
Your argument of moral equivalence was based on a comparison between the British and the Nazis. When I pointed out that this argument does not withhold scrutiny, you then questioned the morality of the British imperial system as a whole. But you never adressed my criticism of your original point. But as a great poet once said, "As heads is tales just call me lucifer." I guess the Brits were the bad guys in WW2. |
| August 17th, 2005 06:34 PM |
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| Hannalee |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
and they were all invaded after Britain picked a fight (note, who declared war on who) on supposed behalf of a nation who they sold out as fast as they could
makes you wonder who Churchill was fighting for? certainly it was not Poland or the British Empire
Oh he was fighting for Poland, it's just that Hitler was easier to beat than the unholy alliance of FDR and Uncle Joe.
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| August 17th, 2005 06:40 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
makes you wonder who Churchill was fighting for? certainly it was not Poland or the British Empire
Absolute whackitude. Silent eagles = parrot jabber. |
| August 17th, 2005 06:42 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
quote:
the good wrote:
I guess the Brits were the bad guys in WW2.
strawman--no nation-state is a "good guy" in war...and this was in the context of whether Churchill was great...you continue to ignore that he bankrupted his nation and cost him the Empire
for reasons that benefitted England not one wit
this poster did not argue 'moral equivalency'--that was your red herring, I merely pointed out that moral inequivalency between oppressors matters not a bit to victims of the oppression
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| August 17th, 2005 06:50 PM |
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| Monkey Woman |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
Why only TWO of the British Pythons?? Why does Monkey Woman make Terry Jones and the late great Graham Chapman weep and sh*t liquid???
Poor dear! 
Actually, I wasn't thinking about the Pythons (not that much of a fan...) but about "A Fish Called Wanda" and... a video game about Discworld. 
Sue my taste!
Oh, and I'll add Michael Palin, of course! |
| August 17th, 2005 06:55 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
you continue to ignore that he bankrupted his nation and cost him the Empire
for reasons that benefitted England not one wit
That is so freakin' nuts it hard to even respond to. There are few absolutes in the world, but you have come damn near to absolutely wrong. Thats difficult to do.
Anyway, shouldn't you be citing Novak for this bogacious theory re: Churchill? I think he's the one most recent nitwit that has tried to revitalized it. |
| August 17th, 2005 07:15 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
England had a surplus prior to 1939 and was the World's leading foreign investor...six years later she was a badly indebted nation who had traded in her foreign holdings to the US to fight the war (good job by FDR in being tough and making the Brits pay their way--you know only about 10 of those 50 destroyers in the famous 1940 deal ever saw any combat service! sweet!)...she was literally bankrupt after the war...the pound was buttressed by the US for the next several decades and food rationing went on until 1953...the only utter whackitude is glossing over all this. Certainly the non-whacko majority of the Brits saw through the Churchill myth and voted him out before Japan even surrendered...some greatness there
he was an alcoholic as well
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| August 17th, 2005 07:51 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
England had a surplus prior to 1939 and was the World's leading foreign investor...six years later she was a badly indebted nation who had traded in her foreign holdings to the US to fight the war
Anything kind of big going on during those six years that would have led him to mortgage a few things? Any kind of attempt at world domination by a nation of demented sociopaths? Or did he just feel like spending lots of money one day?
Check it bleed, the man's vision for the English speaking people was a mite bit larger than yours. He didn't see any point in the interstitual tribal rivalries people like you like to get lost in. He saw the Hun-German Wars for what they were on a global scale, and never lost sight of the fact that America and the Commonwealth were logical extensions of an English culture and philosopy that should and must prevail no matter what piece of land it might occupy. You and I are FREE to argue in ENGLISH in no insignificant part because of, and thanks to, Winston Churchill.
quote:
Certainly the non-whacko majority of the Brits saw through the Churchill myth and voted him out before Japan even surrendered...some greatness there
And then promptly voted him back in. Nobody says he was the perfect man for every time - no one is. But to essentially dismiss the entire record like you're doing is beyond reason. Anyway, whether they voted for him or not, the population never dismissed his genius and leadership during arguably mankind's darkest period. And they never will. He's the most popular AND respected Briton ever, and the evidence to that amounts every day.
quote:
he was an alcoholic as well
Okay, so you agree with me that he had some good traits.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/2509465.stm
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=817
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/HonAmrcn.html
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| August 17th, 2005 08:00 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
He was an alcoholic
Okay, so you agree with me that he had some good traits.
Alcohol is the most destructive drug on earth and addiction thereto has killed and destroyed many good people. It is not a joking matter.
But, as I say that, I hypocritically but cheerfully raise my cognac to you, Neil (Hine, that was Winnie's fave brand), and cheer that Winnie's American side won out over his Brit side and will say that at least 'he knew how to live well'. And this is the limit of our agreement on this man, so peace to you and I will be off to Fenway tomorrow to scope out the scene around the park and see if any of these rehearsal rumors are true. |
| August 17th, 2005 10:48 PM |
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| corgi37 |
Churchill was a fucker, no doubt. A born to rule, depressive, alcoholic.
He did indeed cost the lives of thousands of Aussies & Kiwis during Gallipoli. Him and Kitchener and a shit load of useless, priviledged English Generals. He wasnt too good in the Boer War either.
When the Japs bombed Pearl Harbour, and swung down to Singapore, which was abandoned by the Poms and meant thousands and thousands of Aussies were prisoners of war by those yellow dogs, well, old Churchy didnt bat an eyelid much. When Curtin, Aussie Prime Minister, wanted Aussie soldiers to come back to help defend Australia (after the Darwin bombings), Churchill refused. Of course, no Aussie would stand for that, and we got our men back to defend cold beer, meat pies, gorgeous sheilas, instead of warm, flat piss, fat chicks with bad teeth, and black pudding.
But, apart from that, Winnie was the best leader for his times. Hitler had stated he really had no intention of involving the Empire, but he knew what would happen if he invaded Poland.
The only way to defeat Nazi Germany, was to defeat it with strength, determination, stoicism and stubborness. Churchill had all that in abundance.
All of Europe should thank him for that, cause all of Europe was either part of the Axis powers, or powerless to resist.
Or, as in the French, a bit of both.
[Edited by corgi37] |
| August 18th, 2005 01:56 AM |
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| the good |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
strawman--no nation-state is a "good guy" in war...and this was in the context of whether Churchill was great...you continue to ignore that he bankrupted his nation and cost him the Empire
for reasons that benefitted England not one wit
this poster did not argue 'moral equivalency'--that was your red herring, I merely pointed out that moral inequivalency between oppressors matters not a bit to victims of the oppression
How old are you? If you are more than 18 years of age, there is no excuse for type of muddled thinking. Are you a product of the public school system? No nation state is a good guy in war? So you ARE arguing moral equivalency between the Brits and the Nazis. And I did not ignore you "point" that Churchill "bankrupted" his county and lost the British empire. It has been explained to you why you are incorrect and you either can't read or simply ignore what you can't respond to. |
| August 18th, 2005 02:46 AM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
Aleister Crowley
Bertrand Russell
Sir Richard Burton (the original, NOT Mr. Liz Taylor)
J.R.R. Tolkien
Jonathan Swift
James George Frazer
Charles Darwin
D.H. Lawrence
T.E. Lawrence
T.S. Eliot
Thomas Mallory
Aldous Huxley
Thomas Henry Huxley
A.A. Milne
Kenneth Grahame
Percy Bysshe Shelley
Lord Byron ("mad, bad and dangerous to know"--a Stones fan's poet)
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| August 18th, 2005 05:48 AM |
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| lotsajizz |
quote:
the good wrote:
How old are you? If you are more than 18 years of age, there is no excuse for type of muddled thinking. Are you a product of the public school system? No nation state is a good guy in war? So you ARE arguing moral equivalency between the Brits and the Nazis. And I did not ignore you "point" that Churchill "bankrupted" his county and lost the British empire. It has been explained to you why you are incorrect and you either can't read or simply ignore what you can't respond to.
Incorrect? Britain was not bankrupt after the war? Guess again junior. Britain did not lose their Empire? Guess again. And get your head out of your ass.
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| August 18th, 2005 07:18 AM |
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| egon |
Elisabeth hurley
Catherine Zeta-Jones (though she's Welsh, so maybe that doesn't really count?) |
| August 18th, 2005 07:54 AM |
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| Zeeta |
quote:
egon wrote:
Elisabeth hurley
Catherine Zeta-Jones (though she's Welsh, so maybe that doesn't really count?)
Wales is in Britain but not England.
Tony Blair is not a great briton by the way he's just not a bad Britain.
See this list which the BBC ran recently in which Churchill was voted top...see below:
Winston Churchill - 456,498 votes (28.1%)
Isambard Kingdom Brunel - 398,526 votes (24.6%) Diana, Princess of Wales - 225,584 votes (13.9%)
Charles Darwin - 112,496 votes (6.9%)
William Shakespeare - 109,919 votes (6.8%)
Isaac Newton - 84,628 votes (5.2%) -
Queen Elizabeth I - 71,928 votes (4.4%)
John Lennon - 68,445 votes (4.2%)
Horatio Nelson - 49,171 votes (3%)
Oliver Cromwell - 45,053 (2.8%) votes
However, my favourite is Charlie Watts. |
| August 18th, 2005 07:57 AM |
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| BILL PERKS |
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
Churchill was a fucker, no doubt. A born to rule, depressive, alcoholic.
. Of course, no Aussie would stand for that, and we got our men back to defend cold beer, meat pies, gorgeous sheilas, instead of warm, flat piss, fat chicks with bad teeth, and black pudding.
Or, as in the French, a bit of both.
[Edited by corgi37]
THIS POST IS THE BEST I EVER READ ON ROCKS OFF-SORRY JOEY |
| August 18th, 2005 08:49 AM |
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| egon |
quote:
Zeeta wrote:
Wales is in Britain but not England.
I know, but still; it's wales. Hardly a country is it?
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| August 18th, 2005 08:53 AM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
egon wrote:
I know, but still; it's wales. Hardly a country is it?
if Wales isnt a country, then neither is England technically speaking... |
| August 18th, 2005 08:55 AM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
if Wales isnt a country, then neither is England technically speaking...
Is Johnny Walker English or Scot?
What a great man
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| August 18th, 2005 09:51 AM |
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| egon |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
if Wales isnt a country, then neither is England technically speaking...
1 of my best friends is welsh. According to him, wales pretty much rules the world and invented electricity, the car, the cd player, the phone, well.. pretty much everything really.
weirdo... |
| August 18th, 2005 11:18 AM |
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| the good |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
Incorrect? Britain was not bankrupt after the war? Guess again junior. Britain did not lose their Empire? Guess again. And get your head out of your ass.
Nobody denied that Britian suffered financially as a result of the war, nor did anybody deny that her empire was greatly diminished after the war. Your position was that they shouldn't have FOUGHT the war, and if they hadn't they wouldn't have lost treasure and territory. See Sir Moonies post above (and all of the others) as to why there was no other option. And I recommend that you read William Manchester's biographies of Churchill. You may gain some perspective. As an educator, I have a vested interest in your enlightenment. |
| August 18th, 2005 11:54 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
Churchill was a fucker, no doubt. A born to rule, depressive, alcoholic.
Corgi! Down under dingo boy. Are you still mad at me regarding the alleged poopdeck incident? |
| August 18th, 2005 01:54 PM |
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| Joey |
" Churchill was a fucker, no doubt. A born to rule, depressive, alcoholic. "
Amen Corgi !
Churchill would drink Champagne for breakfast , Brandy Alexander's for lunch and only the finest of wines for dinner all the while keeping by his side some nice ' Sipping Whiskey ' .
This is nicely detailed in Chapter 17 ( page 423 - 424 ) of David McCullough's book " Truman " .
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[Edited by Joey] |
