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| penatonic fix |
Most of us focus on MT's tone and his brilliant ability to
play those major scales and the way he adds that extra note or bend that always sounds fresh and new.Stones Throw is a good example of this and even the blues songs, MT never sounds like the old 12 bar blues format, thats what separates him from Clapton and the rest.
With Mayall he proved right away he was a gifted blues player and stayed within the blues format and when his
time came nailed all those solos on Bare Wires and Blues
From Laurel.
With the stones with the exception of lets say 10 to 15 studio cuts he really got the opportunity to shine playing
all those jagger/richards songs live 72/73 tour that we all
continue to rave about and collect the boots.Many of the solos we comment on are from live shows and not studio situations where producers and engineers have some degree of control of how the record and guitars will sound.
MT live as you know is the best where he has control over his playing and added some much to the stones songs and
made some his signature songs which he still plays today.
Even with Dylan he added so much to those songs on the real live tour and was focused and ready for all dylan's
tricks that he does live not telling the band the songs
he will play changing keys and song arrangements and really not looking at the band or the fans when he played.
he always looked down or had his back away from the crowd.
With Mayall during the 82 tour his tone was full and rich and he really went all out on Jammin with the Blues greats
the video Albert King was amazed at MT's playing and tried
to get MT to take center stage but MT choose to sit down and play on one song.
On MT's colloboration efforts which are many over the years he was not really in total control and had to please the
producer of the record and that person's idea or vision of
how the record should sound.It seems when MT is in that role he is less likely to take control over how he should play or sound and goes with the concept of all concerned
So is it a good argument to compare MT in the studio and how he sounded though the years on how he sounded live through the years.
MT live is the best and his ability to colloborate with so many different artists over the years and add his signature
on so many songs.Slash said that his fav solo was MT's on Dead Flowers over the years I never could figure out why untill when I got Ladies and Gents and saw MT's technique going up and down that major scale at that point I was able to fully appreciate that comment by Slash.
Looking at Taylor play guitar he has the perfect stance and technique ready to attack the fretboard he puts on a clinic if you watch LAG and see how he positions himself and how he uses his pinky to support the bends especially on Dead
Flowers.
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| PolkSalad |
I like the rake on "Oh Pretty Woman." Where'd dat come from? |
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| J.J.Flash |
You really got a strong opinion Pentatonic fix. Your comment was all based on facts and I appreciate that. Anyway, I wouldn't say that I prefer Taylor's style more than "God's" playing.
I enjoy reading your comments, you are good with explanations and most of your thoughts I use to bear in my mind, like when justifying Keith's ability to play, considering his use of the Open Tunings.
I just wanted to say that is worth reading your POSTs.
Thanks and welcome to the breakfast show!
[Edited by J.J.Flash] |
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| penatonic fix |
Thanks, Play that guitar Boy - jagger turns to taylor on LAG.
Keith is a genuis he took acoustic guitars and created a kick ass song that rocks just like he did we SFM all acoustic guitars.With open tunings you get that full rich texture of the same notes ringing which helps create that dynamite sound.Keith took the delta style of open tunings to electric and created his trademark sound the sound of
the rolling stones. |
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| scratched |
quote:
penatonic fix wrote:
Keith took the delta style of open tunings to electric and created his trademark sound the sound of
the rolling stones.
Good point. Keith definitely took things further from the acoustic blues tradition (tunings, general arrangement of guitar parts etc) and adapted them to the nuances of electric guitar within a rock 'n' roll band format. While I am sure there are 'better' guitar players in the world, I still find it hard to compare him to anyone. |
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| headshrinker |
You've got the greatest rythem guitarist of all time and one the greatest, or maybe THE most effective lead guitarist of all time in the same band. and you get the 72/73 tours. along with charlie watts druming, you have the greatest performances ever. if only Taylor was in the band still now. it annoys me so much coz thats where a player of his quality should be. |
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| F505 |
quote:
headshrinker wrote:
if only Taylor was in the band still now. it annoys me so much coz thats where a player of his quality should be.
Don't think so. Taylor is not the Taylor from the seventies anymore. I saw him perform a couple of years ago and it was really really bad. He'd lost his sharpness just like Wood nowadays. I don't think it matters anymore. The chemistry won't work again. But the Taylor period still is where it's all about. |
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| Zack |
If Taylor had been convinced not to leave the band in 74, he would have left later. It's absurd to think he could possibly be a Stone today. He's just too much of a restless, peripatetic kind of person to stay with any one thing too long. Had he trudged on through the 70s, he certainly would have bailed when the tension got high after the 81 tour.
That's not to say I don't agree that 72-73 shows aren't the greatest ever musically by any group. The real tragedy is than none of it has ever been released officially. I give away copies of STP, Welcome to Australia, Nicky's Birthdayy, or Brussels to anyone I meet who shows any interest in the Stones at all.
I'm just being realistic about MT's personality as well as his guitar chops. |
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| penatonic fix |
What gets me is with RW the stones can,t play live great material like Winter,Sway,and TWFNO and other songs.They
could do easy arrangements to get around Taylor and let Chuck Leavel carry the melody like he does now but that seems a waste of a good song and won,t do justice to the original song.Just watch that video from amerstdam of RW
playing Shine a Light it is so painful for me to watch and
I feel sorry for Woody he has no idea what to play or even
try and copy Taylor's lines. |
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| F505 |
Nowadays even Taylor has no idea what to play or even try and copy Taylor's lines.
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| penatonic fix |
Okay you say he would have no idea Taylor,how to play those tunes which i totally disagree with since Taylor is brilliant player at age 55 just watch his performance on the John Mayall 70 birthday gig on DVD.He plays all the old
Mayall material with a FRESH vibrato and Clapton takes the
Mayall material and goes through the motions.
Taylor proved his timeless playing on Sway,Moonlight,CYHMK,
Winter,Hide Your Love and all the rest.
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| penatonic fix |
Since 1981 you can make the argument that keith's two solo records were the best stones records because keith and mick
were not writing great records anymore.Sure they wrote many good songs on those records but overall those post 81 records were not as good.
Taylor's two solo records 1979 and A stones throw were IMO better than post 81 stones records.keith and jagger would of been proud of rockers like Taylor wrote on Twisted Sister
and Broken Hand from 1979.1979 is a masterpiece and A Stones
Throw is a great record by taylor.
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| penatonic fix |
Is jagger waiting to release all the gems in the vault when the stones do give up touring so he continue to reap cash inflows from the rolling stones machine.Will releasing lets
say LAG on DVD give the mainstream fans a chance to finally
realize that with Taylor the stones were the greatest rock and roll band and not just a marketing ploy by the stones camp.Or does Jagger have to get Allen Klein's okay to get that material out.Is Jagger worried about the perception
the fans will have about that material from 72/73 because most fans today have no idea how great that stuff was except
the hardcore fans |
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| bez85 |
I thought on Mayall's 70th Birthday DVD, that Buddy whittington blew Clapton and Taylor off the stage..just my opinion....... |
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| penatonic fix |
Wow its amazing how we can listen and watch players and come up with different opinions which is great and allows a forum for discussion.I thought Taylor blew away all concerned and the big difference was his Slide playing which know one came come close to.Also I thought BW tone was tin compared to Taylor.
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| bez85 |
Clapton's tone was even thinner than Whittington's, but I think that was just a bad final mix for the DVD. Taylor is mixed high on the DvD, but looking through the bad mix Buddy had some awesome blues florishes through out the show and was on par with the two legends....aja this is Randy |
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| penatonic fix |
Wow Randy small world great to hear from you out here
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| penatonic fix |
I think the best solo on the DVD Mayall's 70th is MT's solo on 'Somebody's Acting Like a Child and on the CD the song 'California(which is not on the DVD)MT plays a solo for the ages.
IMO know one can come close to MT's slide playing that really sets him aside from all the players.Taylor plays
slide for the most part in standard concert tuning which is
more difficult |
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| penatonic fix |
If you watch the DVD of Ladies and Gentleman the rolling stones you might want to take note of on Brown Sugar Taylor throuhgout plays some short soloing on Bitch Taylor plays that dominant killer riff and chunky rhythm while keith for the most part plays fills and he famous extended solo where he takes a chuck berry solo patter and inverts it.On TB,and
Happy again Taylor adds some soloing.On LIV Taylor plays his slide solo in standard concert tunings and not open tunings because he later has to play his famous solo and
can,t change guitars.And on YCYGWYW as Keith chomps down his
open chords he turns over and says something to Wyman it looks like he is upset maybe Wyman is to loud in the mix who knows.On SFM Taylor goes wild and plays a great pattern.
These are just some items I would overlook every time I
watch the DVD.Taylor's solos on GS,YCYGWTW,LIV,Dead Flowers
enrich and add so much to the studio versions. |
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| souldoggie |
Penatonic, your stuff is strong. I have a couple questions...Who played the lead in Dead Flowers and Gimme Shelter on the studio releases? Keith, right? All or part?
And how often did Taylor play in open. I always figured that that was Keith's territory. For instance, how many songs did Mick play the open G on the 72-73 tour, or any other? Also, what guitar did he string up for that? For that matter, who handed him the guitar, or was it ready, poised on stage?
Thanks in advance. |
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| souldoggie |
Pentanic Fix, thanks, I have another question, too. Doesn't it seem crazy that Jagger wrote Brown Sugar? Is that the first song he wrote in open G? He did write that on guitar, right? I've always figured that Keith showed Jagger that tuning and he went out, while in Australia, and just banged that thing out, fell right into it. But I've really got no idea how that came about. Any insight?
I think Jagger may have been in open E on that Robert Johson song in Performance, I can't remember right now. |
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| penatonic fix |
I am no expert just a fanatic when it comes to keith and taylor.Gimme Shelter Taylor does not play on the studio cut he only played on 2 songs on Let It Bleed,Country Honk and Live With Me(BTW keith plays bass on).Keith does all those great guitar parts on Gimme Shelter.His FAMOUS opening splash of notes on the introduction is probably the greatest simple splash of notes I have ever heard.Its so seductive and took thenation out of the 60's and into the 70's.On Dead Flowers Keith and Taylor trade guitar roles and keith adds those country licks similiar to keith's work on Wild Horses(those licks are similiar).Taylor plays the lead on dead flowers.For BS jagger wrote the song on acoustic guitar in standard concert tunings and gave it to Keith and he transposed the song to Open G and the rest is history.Taylor did not play open tunings live and when he played slide live he played in standard concert tunings.
Keith played Prodigal Son in Open E and LIV he plays in just standard concert tunings.Watch LAG he plays DEad Flowers in standard tunings with a LES PAUL which is unsual that he and taylor played a les paul on the same song.Keith normally plays his 5 string telecaster to play all his famous songs. Keith always says his playing is 5 strings 2 fingers and an asshole in all those guitar mag interviews.I think keith is the best interview in ROCK history he is clever and very intelligent. |
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| penatonic fix |
Check out Taylor's solo on Im Free from Oakland 1969 its a glistening melodic taylor line |
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| Bloozehound |
Whats with MJ in that header ? |
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| penatonic fix |
Looks like MJ is timewarped in some movie scene |
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| scratched |
quote:
penatonic fix wrote:
Taylor did not play open tunings live and when he played slide live he played in standard concert tunings.
He played in open G at Hyde Park on Love In Vain and I'm Yours... amongst others. |
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| penatonic fix |
Do you have that video I am curious to know all the information.He just joined the stones from Mayall and played 12 bar blues,I thought he learned open tunings from keith;s influence.All I have to see is the LAG video and he plays in standard tunings.thank you for correcting me. |
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| scratched |
I do have the video. Mick uses his Bigsby fitted Les Paul (previously Keith's) for slide work in open G while his SG is used for standard tuning. Keith uses a tobacco sunburst 330 (Brian's?) for open tuning and a natural Flying V (previouly Albert King's) for standard tuning. Haven't watched it for ages so I can't really remember which guitars were used with which song. |
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| penatonic fix |
Thank You.You have a vast knowledge of the stones and thats
what its all about sharing the ideas and knowledge. |
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| penatonic fix |
I have learned so much from keith and taylor's guitar work over the years.With keith how to play open tunings and find all the small open chords and how he uses slides and how he inverts riffs and how he uses the same patterns in other open tunings.With Taylor I have learned to play in more major scales and up and down the fretboard and play double stops,triplets, and how to use hammers and sustain effectively.Taylor's use of sustain on Winter is brilliant he comes out of bends and sustains and holds down the fretboard.Taylor's vibrato on the 73 tour is more disorted and his use of hammers is unreal listen to GS and all his
hammers from the 73 tour. |
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