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Topic: The Mirror: LAST CHANCE FOR RONNIE Return to archive Page: 1 2 3
03-31-02 07:53 PM
yellow1 Not to nitpick but he actually got a cut of the profits after Bill officially left in 1993, so that's actually 1/4 of the profits. Damn...

A lot's been said about Ronnie and the nicest words probably come from Bill Wyman who said that his arrival in 1975 probably saved the band by bringing some of the fun back. I guess we gotta be grateful for that in spite of his weak (and getting weaker) guitar playing over the years.

As for co-writing Dirty Work...I remember reading a Steve Lillywhite interview by Nick Kent in 1986 after DW came out and when Nick Kent asked him if Ronnie had helped with the writing a lot, he said that he was "there a lot" and when he found out he got 4 credits he said, "awfully nice of Keith". Too bad Keith wasn't so generous with Mick Taylor's fantastic contributions and that Mick Jagger let it go...To date, Ronnie's only documented contribution to songwriting for DW is for "Can't Cut The Mustard"/"Had It With You" track...not exactly the most inspired song they came up with...There might be others, but arguably the available outtakes of "One Hit" (i.e. "If I don't have you" from High Temperature and "One Hit" from Hammingbird Disaster) show little involvement from Ronnie.
03-31-02 09:43 PM
nanky Personally, I thought Ronnie did a helluva job in '94-'95. SUre he didn't play like he did in the 70's early 80's, but no one did. Unfortunately, he was big-time AWOL '97-'99.

I am hopeful that he can lick the problem, and then get back to his music.

I am curious about the drastic measures taken in '81 -- what did they do, lock him in hs room!?
03-31-02 10:08 PM
yellow1 Well I saw them twice in Paris in 1995, once in 97 and twice in 1999 and I'd be hard pressed to say that Ronnie did a better job in 1995 !
He was mainly clowning onstage during all these shows as far as I could tell and I'm a guitar player myself do I now what to look for in a guitar player.
Let me tell you that when I saw Jeff Beck in San Francisco in 2001 I was riveted to my seat at his fantastic playing.
Isn't it a shame that he's become somewhat of a "cult" act scraping for pennies (or so the legend goes) when you've got good old Ronnie (who was demoted from guitar player to bass player when he joined the Jeff Beck Group in the early 70s) making the big bucks and boozing away.
Damn...
I guess Jeff Beck let his chance (moneywise) at least pass him by in 1975 when he stood up the Stones in Rotterdam after they'd basically made him part of the band. It seems he got frustrated at seeing Mick and Keith strum their acoustics all day long playing old blues numbers...
03-31-02 10:17 PM
the lepper Good god we don't want Clapton OR Jeff Beck in the Stones....Clapton has been just...well....BORING for over 15 years now and Beck, while still playing unbelievable guitar, just wouldn't fit. (Or I should say his EGO wouldn't let him fit-besides, his thing is playing mind-warped leads over techno droning beats and rythymns.) Woody needs another chance, because although he isn't the best player in the world, he just IS A ROLLING STONE. If he can't stay sober, bring in some hotshot guitarist to fill the void. Actually, the guy who suggested the old guitar player from the Black Crowes, Mark Ford, was right on the money. He would be a great fit.
03-31-02 11:47 PM
AlexanderHic In spite of whatever mindless tabloids report, I think that the core of the stones, Jagger and co., had already considered seriously quite a few guest artists if ever there was a need to anticipate Wood's condition... and Richards condition... and the band's whole reputation as a worthy live act.

Joey, nuzzly buddy, be sure that Taylor will rejoin the act for a couple of shows and give a hell of a rendition of 'Sympathy for the devil' and 'Sweet Virginia' (maybe Wood's assumed liver transplant won't be all that necessary, doncha think?), and survivors such as Clapton, maybe Elton, Beck, and suprise aparitions in the name of nostalgia will add up to snappy moments of musicianship. Wyman may have something to say, assuming that he hasn't shown too much of a disdain yet.

Maybe Wood will still be able to catch up a couple of PPV shows from his hospital bed... that is if he has at least one third of the privileges some poster reminded us regarding his playing with the stones, in spite maybe that alcoholism isn't much of a smeary and irresponsible behavior, but rather a disease that revels in consolation.

If it causes any of it for you, Ronnie, please get 'cured' and luckily that liver operation will be reprogrammed for a case of contingency.
04-01-02 05:32 AM
padre A quote from Victor Bockris' Keef biography about Ronnie and the 1981-82 tour:

From May 26 through July 25, 1982, the Rolling Stones toured Europe. "During the tour's London stopover, while Jagger, Richards, Watts and Wyman-not to mention the other band members-were sequestered in a hotel in London's Knightsbridge district, Wood was 'elsewhere' holed up in an apartment, " wrote Nick Kent. "Several excuses were proffered, but the main reason was a clause that Jagger had placed very high up in the Stones' official contract that read, 'If anyone is found in possession of drugs in any part of the backstage area, that person will immediately be banished from the vicinity, whatever their capacity.'
"Vexed at Wood's inability to control his problems, the Stones put him on an allowance during the tour in order to prevent him from buying drugs. But Jagger wanted him out of the band altogether and, whenever possible, forced him to stay in different quarters than the rest of the group, even the roadies. According to insiders, George Thorogood, a supporting act on many European dates, was secretly rehearsing to take Wood's place."
04-01-02 06:36 AM
JaggaRichards George Thorogood.....there's a scary thought! SOBER UP RONNIE!!!
04-01-02 09:20 AM
Gazza >Not to nitpick but he actually got a cut of the profits after Bill officially left in 1993, so that's actually 1/4 of the profits. Damn...

Not the case..he was made a full partner in 89 (ie a fifth) - that was definitely reported AT THAT TIME...that would have gone up to a quarter after they signed the contract with Virgin which Wyman opted out of. As he'd been a Stone officially since 1976,he certainly deserved that share morally regardless of whether you think hes a lousy musician or not. I doubt the rest of the band would have granted him that honour if they'd thought otherwise and I'm sure theyre the best judge.

>As for co-writing Dirty Work...I remember reading a Steve Lillywhite interview by Nick Kent in 1986 after DW came out and when Nick Kent asked him if Ronnie had helped with the writing a lot, he said that he was "there a lot" and when he found out he got 4 credits he said, "awfully nice of Keith".

Yeah - like HE'D know more about who wrote the songs better than Keith would...


>Too bad Keith wasn't so generous with Mick Taylor's fantastic contributions and that Mick Jagger let it go...

Different era..different issue...they certainly should have given Taylor more credit (especially on "Moonlight Mile") Maybe they've been more generous with maturity. Two wrongs dont make a right though.

>To date, Ronnie's only documented contribution to songwriting for DW is for "Can't Cut The Mustard"/"Had It With You" track...not exactly the most inspired song they came up with...

youve just acknowledged he co-wrote 4 songs and now youre saying this is his only contribution? Now youre taking him to task for a piece that wasnt even finished and that exists as little more than a loose jam session?? Thats absurd..its like saying Jagger's a crap songwriter by judging him on stuff like "Whats the matter" instead of "Sympathy for the Devil"

>There might be others, but arguably the available outtakes of "One Hit" (i.e. "If I don't have you" from High Temperature and "One Hit" from Hammingbird Disaster) show little involvement from Ronnie.

The outtakes mean nothing. Its only the finished product that a band can be judged on. My point was that he contributed to several songs on that album - hardly the high point of their career but at least he made the effort on that session. To say he didnt earn a one fifth share in the band's earnings (or a quarter after Bill left) is ridiculous.

As for Beck - hes burnt enough bridges with the Stones and Jagger especially down the years. He's a fantastic musician, but certainly not a team player. Too much of a maverick talent for the Stones,I think. If his past record is anything to go by,he'd probably walk out on the band three days before the tour was due to begin in a row over money.
04-01-02 10:25 AM
Maxlugar I would not be surprised Mick wanted him out of the band in '81. I'm sure his close relationship with Keith and all the potential band influences that would bring were scaring the shit out of Jagger. It's not easy thinking of anyone as a band influence on Keith rather than the other way around but at the time Keith was clean and I'm sure Mick wanted to keep it that way. I'm not sure if anyone read that Jeff Beck interview I posted here a month ago but there was a passage that was quite enlightening about Ronnie. Basically Jeff said he could not take Rod and Ronnie acting like schoolgirls together anymore. Sharing little private jokes and just basically running around together like tow children. I'm SURE Mick saw his share of that in the late '70's and by '81 was ready to dump him at the slightest hint of breaking tour rules. This is the first time I've heard of these rules for the '81-'82 tour. This goes against our theory of that tour being one long cocaine binge. Ever see that scene with Mick yelling at Ronnie in Lets Spend the Night Together backstage? Mick was running a tight ship. Bless him. The man knows what it takes. Someone is obviously taking Ronnie's side big time (Keith) and personally I think it's to the detriment of the band. You can't have Mick trying to keep him on the straight path and Keith letting him do whatever. What you get is what we have been seeing of Ronnie these past few tours: A man that shows up on time and doesn't fall over but doesn't play anywhere near his abilities.

As far as Jeff Beck goes, I don't think the Stones music gives him enough room. He is amazing and has taken his music to a whole new planet. Has anyone read the biography "Crazy Fingers"? I'd be curious as to what it says about his almost joining the Stones.

Anyway, I say if Ronnie can not return to his 75' - 78 glory days, let Mick Taylor try and take it back. OR bring them both on tour and hopefully one of them shows up.

I would hope it would be Mick Taylor on the night I would be seeing them.


04-01-02 10:29 AM
Maxlugar Sorry guys, I meant "bad" influence not "band" influence above.

Although it could be said he has had a "Band" influence quite good AND bad.
04-01-02 10:59 AM
Gazza >This is the first time I've heard of these rules for the '81-'82 tour. This goes against our theory of that tour being one long cocaine binge.

I remember reading a couple of tell tale interviews during that tour which eluded to Woody having a problem.

The "Melody Maker" interviewed Keith very early on in the US leg of the tour and Keith started into a whole tirade about Woody...slagging off his latest solo album ("1234") and then saying something along the lines of "thats a boy who hasnt got long left,the way hes goin'"..it was pretty vicious and obviously there had been a problem with Roonie at that point which had really pissed Keith off.

By the time the Stones reached Paris the following June,Keith did a rare interview with BBC-TV in which he talked very candidly about his years as a heroin addict (back then,Keith rarely did many TV interviews..this was a really good one for anyone who remembers it). They interviewed Woody as well (separately) and he effectively said how things had turned around so much in the band that it was now at the stage that when HE (Woody) got out of control and had overindulged too much that he had the mortifying scenario of KEITH lecturing him to "keep it together"...
04-01-02 01:06 PM
yellow1 Gazza, youre obviously not interested in having level headed discussions based on available data (interviews, bootlegs, etc...) so I'll leave it at that.

As for:

">Not to nitpick but he actually got a cut of the profits after Bill officially left in 1993, so that's actually 1/4 of the profits. Damn...

Not the case..he was made a full partner in 89 (ie a fifth) - that was definitely reported AT THAT TIME...that would have gone up to a quarter after they signed the contract with Virgin which Wyman opted out of. As he'd been a Stone officially since 1976,he certainly deserved that share morally regardless of whether you think hes a lousy musician or not."

FYI - Ronnie WAS in fact made a FULL member in 93. Still don't believe me, well pick up RS 775 - 12/11/97 edition - page 53, 4th column on the right, halfway through the page and READ what Ronnie himself has to say about his status within the Stones, I'll help: " I didn't mind doing, like, a 17-year apprenticeship".

BTW I'm pretty sure it was also mentioned in Q Magazine in 94...

Hope that gives you food for thought before you baselessly contradict posts by other members...
04-01-02 01:23 PM
Mother baby Actually the "subject" is a ticket to the wrong result....
in this line of thinking (which I suppose some non addicts subscribe to) there is no such thing as a "last chance" ...Never Ever Give Up!!!!!!!
[Edited by Mother baby]
04-01-02 01:59 PM
Gazza >Gazza, youre obviously not interested in having level headed discussions based on available data (interviews, bootlegs, etc...) so I'll leave it at that.

Who threw the rattle out of YOUR pram? lighten up fer fucks sake....

04-01-02 02:20 PM
Gazza I'm pretty sure I read that around the Steel wheels tour of him finally becoming a full member but if you think it was 1993,then fair enough - hardly a big deal (actually..coem to think of it.. didnt they sign the Virgin contract in late 1991? maybe we can split the difference and agree on a date half way ;-) )

...regardless of whether he became a full member in 1989,1993,1991 or even 1976 for that matter,I think we're gettin' off the subject - fact is,the guy's a full member NOW just like the other three - whether some people like that or not. If he was being kicked out,that would have to be a band decision,not down to one person.
04-01-02 03:08 PM
~AzQb

This is someone's life we're talkin about here. Much more important than a fucking album or tour let alone Mick bloody Taylor's chances of being reinvited.
[/quote]- Gazza-

G,

I couldn't agree witcha More. This man's health (and life) is DEFinitely hanging in the balance (especially the "not eating and just drinking" part)and his health/ability to LIVE, is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrr more important than any record, any tour, and any said "personnel" change ; )

Ronnie deserves MUCH more from "said fans" of the Stones.He deserves to be seen and respected as a man first-- and an "artist" {that's 'Arthur' to you, POWJoe!} second. Any man's soul is of far more concern to me personally than his art. That's just a fact. That's just normalcy, really.

Anyone who takes the stand that Ronnie's addiction&recovery problem{s} is cause for rejoicing as he may be kicked out and replaced by TwinkieTaylor is sicker than i previously thought.

It's bow yer head shameful, really. It is.

~
04-01-02 04:25 PM
Miss U. Ronnie deserves alot more support & respect than he's gotten.

Gazza--Brian's "health" was not a factor in his supposedly not being up to par to go on tour.

Maxy--good post.
04-01-02 05:07 PM
yellow1 "but if you think it was 1993,then fair enough - hardly a big deal "

Well you were the one who thought it was enough of a deal to challenge my research.

And, "I" don't think it's 1993, it's "Ronnie" who says so himelf...I guee you're never wrong eh ?!
04-01-02 05:23 PM
Gazza Better to be occasionally wrong than always obnoxious
04-01-02 07:08 PM
yellow1 Seems like you're as bright as the guy's whose nickname you stole. I'll just have to ignore you from now on...and please don't pollute threads I participate in with your clueless banter.
Cut the booze will ya !
04-01-02 07:13 PM
Gazza Actually I had the nickname before he had - for what its worth

I'll "pollute" all I want - just dont feel the need to join in if you dont want. I dont mind either way.
04-01-02 09:03 PM
yellow1 This is sad...well at least you learnt something today so it's not all bad I guess.

And if I may, "Gazza is a wanker, Gazza is a wanker" !
04-01-02 09:20 PM
gypsy Well, you just typed "learnt." Is that a word? I'm not sure....
04-01-02 10:39 PM
~AzQb

yellow1

...i never thought i'd be saying this, and i sincerely regret {having to} say it, but yellow1, you know, you really are an asshole.

It's a bloody shame, it really is.

~
04-01-02 11:59 PM
MarthaMyDear Alright... Who's fighting and what for? Actually, who's FRYING and what for (as in... GERARDO!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P WHAT ARE YOU TAKING?!?!?! You know, this message board with the Brittany and the N*SYNC??? Is that how you spell that crappy band??? HE!!! HE!!! I'M LOSING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UGH!!! lol.......................... :P Oh, it's not fun to joke about drugs or alcohol anymore, BUT I DON'T CARE........... Just losin' it... Hell A. traffic, you know... lol.................. :P Sorry...

*** Martha ***
04-02-02 04:48 AM
yellow1 Look what we you get for standing by your research:
"obnoxious"..."asshole"...anything else ?

"Gazza is a wanker, Gazza is a wanker"


PS - What is it you don't understand about "learnt" exactly ?!
04-02-02 05:49 AM
Mathijs Ron Wood became a full member of the Stones in 1993, after Bill Wyman left. Until then he was paid a yearly sum plus a part of some benefits, e.g. for touring. But until date Wood doesn't earn anything from promotion material like posters and calenders. As the Rolling Stones Promopub BV is a Dutch company, you can go to the Commerce Chamber (Kamer van Koophandel) and ask for the annual report of the company. You then will read all about Mr. Michael Jagger and Keith Richard (without the S!).

Mathijs
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04-02-02 09:37 AM
Cardinal Ximinez All this bickering, and no one even mentioned "titties"....Imagine what would have happened if "wolf puss" had appeared in this thread!

Uh-oh, I guess it just did....
04-02-02 10:55 AM
Joey Wolf Puss !!!! Wolf Puss !!!! Wolf Puss !!!!!

There..............THAT should stir things up for a week .

God am I bored !!!!!


J. Joeyfly ( The Joey , C10 )


04-02-02 11:35 AM
Maxlugar M. Lugarfly is a take off of a Broadway show called M. Butterfly. You know, Madam Butterfly? I'm sorry if that brings back memories of incoming gook missles and razor blades inside hairy vulvas.

When feeling dramatic I use that signature.

It can not be translated to J. Joeyfly. It's just not as funny.

Please go back to the shop and work on your posting, Joey.

I'm very disappointed in you. You were doing so good, too.

M. Lugarfly, C10 (The Maxy, Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaxy!)
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