| 22nd December 2006 03:27 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Honky Tonk Man wrote:
Another reason to hate Macca is Wonderful Christmas Time.
The biggest reason to hate Macca is that he's an asshole.
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| 22nd December 2006 03:31 PM |
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| Factory Girl |
I've always been lukewarm on the Beatles.
Plus, their taste in muse was pedestrian. Beatles like small, hairy and stumpy.
The Beatles could have never hooked with the likes of Marianne, Anita or Bianca.
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| 22nd December 2006 04:59 PM |
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| Joey |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
I just heard that for the first time a few days ago. I almost had to pull over the car and vomit.
That is my favorite Christmas song EVER !!!!!
It is TRUE . |
| 22nd December 2006 05:20 PM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
Yes. Lets be honest. They were a pop boy band. Matching clothes, sacharine sweet songs song to teeny bopper girls. Cleverly marketed. They paved the way for generations of boy bands. They were the blue print.
I hate them.
Willful ignorance is not an optimal lifestyle choice, son. Before the Beatles, record companies controlled musicians' output. The Beatles broke that stranglehold and put the artists themselves in charge. The Stones and all other Sixties groups benefited from that change. In that sense, the Beatles were the opposite of today's boy bands. As no less an expert on the history of popular music than Keith Richards observed, "The Beatles kicked the door open. We came through and held it open." As for saccharine sweet, Mick wishes he could have produced as soulful a sound back in '64 as John Lennon gave on Twist and Shout.
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler] |
| 22nd December 2006 05:27 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
Factory Girl wrote:
I've always been lukewarm on the Beatles.
Plus, their taste in muse was pedestrian. Beatles like small, hairy and stumpy.
The Beatles could have never hooked with the likes of Marianne, Anita or Bianca.
YES! |
| 22nd December 2006 08:29 PM |
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| Lethargy |
Most overrated band of all time. I kind of like them. But even though The Stones are #1 to me, I'm not sure The Beatles are even in the Top Twenty.
I know I'm in the minority not just here, but on the planet. I beg forgiveness.
Abbey Road is a masterpiece.
The White album is a sloppy masterpiece.
Revolver is half-boring-pop and half-interesting.
The rest is all kind of lame, in my opinion.
Let's examine the Beatles various "periods":
1) The syrupy pop and R&B covers era: The Stones had one of these eras too, but then the Stones produced 5 masterpieces in a row, plus 10+ albums after that.
2) The "we're kind of into drugs but still mostly poppy" era: Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver: interesting, but not too special.
3) The "stereotypical almost-self-parody psychedelia" era: Sgt Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour, Yellow Submarine. Sgt Pepper is garbage. I wouldn't probably say that, if it weren't so universally worshipped as the greatest album ever. It's not even in the TOP TEN beatles albums in my opinion. A few good tracks (Lucy in the Sky, Help From My Friends, Day In the Life), but actually more filler than almost any other beatles album (good morning, lovely rita - gag!!) Magical Mystery tour is actually better, in my opinion, although that's b/c they recycled some great singles, including MY FAVORITE BEATLES SONG Strawberry Fields. Yellow Submarine has a few underrated gems (All Too Much, Hey Bulldog, but the rest is...yawn...)
4) The "let's try to get a hold of reality and make good music again" era: White Album and Abbey Road I already commented on. Let It Be ain't so bad either. Love the rawness of it. But "Long And Winding Road" gives me the dry heaves, like most of the output of Paul Mccartneys entire career.
Just my opinion, but I think I've detailed it enough so that the flames don't get too nasty.
Bottom Line: beatles are ok, but I even like the Moody Blues better (their first seven albums are great).
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| 22nd December 2006 08:33 PM |
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| Lethargy |
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
but all you need is love
WHA-WHA-WHAAAAAAAT?????????????
WE MEANIES ONLY SAY **GLOVE**, NOT LOVE!!!!
Heh heh, hee hee, heh heh, hee hee... |
| 22nd December 2006 08:38 PM |
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| Lethargy |
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Willful ignorance is not an optimal lifestyle choice, son. Before the Beatles, record companies controlled musicians' output. The Beatles broke that stranglehold and put the artists themselves in charge. The Stones and all other Sixties groups benefited from that change. In that sense, the Beatles were the opposite of today's boy bands. As no less an expert on the history of popular music than Keith Richards observed, "The Beatles kicked the door open. We came through and held it open." As for saccharine sweet, Mick wishes he could have produced as soulful a sound back in '64 as John Lennon gave on Twist and Shout.
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
You're totally right on the beatles IMPACT and INFLUENCE on music! But I was interpreting this thread as being about the actual musical quality, especially in hindsight.
I know Sgt Pepper rocked peoples worlds at the time, but man is it ever an embarrassment now (the beatles have said so themselves on various occasions, by the way - don't take my word for it - look it up). Abbey Road endures much better musically.
But there's no doubting their influence, their role in shaking up the industry, their role in creating "albums" instead of just songs, etc.
But that doesn't make me put their CDs on in 2006. That's my main point. |
| 23rd December 2006 12:10 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
Is it arise Sir Ringo?
22.12.06
This is London.com
He was the Beatle everyone wrote off as a joke - and nearly killed himself with drink and drugs. But today Ringo's having the last laugh...and there's a petition to make him a knight:
He was always considered the least talented of the four, the one who only joined the band when they were on the very cusp of fame, the one to whom Lennon and McCartney gave the easiest songs because he didn't have a very wide vocal range; and the one non-musicians would sometimes snidely describe as the 'lucky Beatle'.
But mention his name and it's enough to make an entire generation smile in affection. Because Ringo Starr, unassuming, plainly spoken, sad-eyed and lugubrious behind his drums, was the Beatle with whom ordinary people could best identify: the little man grandmothers and small children loved.
And soon, so his admirers hope, he may be kneeling before the Queen to receive the ultimate honour: a rock and roll knighthood in the fashion of Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger and Cliff Richard. Will it be 'Arise, Sir Ringo, the people's Beatle?' You never know. Stranger things have happened.
Because while Lennon and McCartney dazzled with their wit and songs, and George Harrison suggested mysticism, it was level-headed Ringo whom people trusted; Ringo who sang about the Yellow Submarine; and Ringo with the knack of summing up the absurd in a homely, honest phrase.
'I think you're both nuts,'he said bluntly to John Lennon and Yoko Ono when, for avant garde reasons, they took to performing on stage inside black bags as the other two Beatles, irritated beyond belief, tried not to notice.
'It was just like Butlins,' he decreed when descending from the transcendental Himalayan ashram of the Beatles guru, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
And 'it's been a hard day's night,' he groaned after a gruelling period of work, a phrase which, with the help of a Beatles hit song, has become part of the English lexicon.
But all that was decades ago. Where has he been since? We've always heard a lot about the other three, much of it ultimately tragic; and Paul McCartney is hardly ever out of the news these days, although recently he may wish that were not quite the case.
But Ringo? To British fans, he's almost become the forgotten one.
Well, that may be changing, and for two reasons. First, his drumming is suddenly being positively revalued, following the release of the remixed, best-selling Beatles album, Love, where, thanks to the magic of digital sound, his contribution can finally be heard more clearly. (The other Beatles weren't idiots, they knew what they were doing when they asked him to join.)
And second, he's become the subject of a petition to the prime minister (if you would like to add your name, go to: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk)that he be recommended to the Queen for a knighthood.
Now, although one suspects that the newspaper columnist who launched the petition may have had a mischievous tongue in his cheek, it's already gathered hundreds of signatures.
And Ringo himself? What does he make of all this? Does he think that being one quarter of the most iconic band ever qualifies him for an upgrade from the MBE he got in 1965 to a first class Sir in some future honours list?
Unfortunately, it's impossible to say. He must have an opinion, but he isn't voicing it. Instead, he's gone on holiday and resolutely doesn't want to be disturbed. (At least, unlike John Lennon, he didn't later send his MBE back.)
Of course, some might believe that his life since The Beatles has been one long holiday - and certainly he's been a lot less busy these past 30-odd years than most of us.
But that isn't the full story. Although we may not hear much about it over here, he's been performing, touring and recording in America for more than 15 years with Ringo's All Starr Band, albeit without the publicity and fan base which accompanies Paul McCartney's tours.
He probably doesn't mind about that too much. He hardly needs the money. And as he says, he just loves to be in a band. That was why he joined one in the first place.
Everyone of a certain age remembers Ringo with The Beatles, but what has it been like to be Ringo without The Beatles, to be Ringo today at the age of 66, a grandfather-of-two, with the Hollywood sunglasses and the arm tattoos?
Well, for a start, John Lennon's worry that the Beatles' drummer might end his career having to scrape a living by playing the northern clubs thankfully never came to pass.
With the continuing sale of Beatles albums, Ringo is rich from his royalties and is estimated to be worth around £125 million today.
And then there are his houses. There's his tax-exile home above the Mediterranean in Monaco; his American houses, one in Los Angeles, just down the road from Jennifer Aniston and Tom Cruise, and another in Colorado. Then over here there's a flat in Chelsea and a 17th century 200-acre mansion in Cranleigh, Surrey.
Neighbourly
He's said to be a good neighbour down in Cranleigh, turning up at fetes and lighting the fire on bonfire night when he's in the country. He also campaigned heartily, though unsuccessfully, for the reprieve of Cranleigh Hospital.
That was understandable. Hospitals have played a big part in his life. When he was six years old, his appendix burst and peritonitis set in. He was in a coma for ten weeks and spent a full year in hospital.
Then, at 13, he developed pleurisy and spent a further two years in hospital - years that deprived him of a proper education.
As for hobbies, there's his new found interest in naive painting which he began in Monte Carlo when he kept hearing people comment on the 'great light' down here.
There are also his dogs, horse riding, and, it's claimed, though it seems scarcely believable, watching polo. Indeed, he appears to have found a contentment in life which for a while threatened to elude him.
Ironically, and against all the odds, when The Beatles broke up Ringo was quickly off the blocks with big solo hits like It Don't Come Easy and You're Sixteen.
Following his successful appearance in The Beatles' first film, A Hard Day's Night, there was a burgeoning film career, too, and he was offered a lot of silly parts.
Unfortunately, he was silly enough to take some of them, appearing in big budget flops like The Magic Christian with his friend Peter Sellers, Candy and Sextet. He was not flattered by the reviews.
But in a film I wrote, That'll Be The Day (and for which he was very helpful during my research, when he recalled his days working in a holiday camp), he was terrific, winning excellent notices. He should have done more like that. I suspect he was probably a better natural actor than he ever realised.
Gradually, however, his life changed. Following a friendly divorce in 1975 from his first wife, Maureen Cox, whom he'd known since his days at the Cavern Club in Liverpool (she died of cancer in 1994 with Ringo and their children at her bedside), he met and married the American actress and Bond girl Barbara Bach.
They met while they were making Caveman, a film fortunately not well remembered, the dialogue of which consisted of a series of grunts.
His life with The Beatles had been non-stop work and, when asked, he still played with all three of his former bandmates on their solo albums.
But soon he'd fully embraced a rock star's jet- setting, druggy lifestyle. There was no rock and roll party in Los Angeles if Ringo wasn't there.
And though he was drumming again as he guested with other old pals, it was irregular work. Without a real career he had time on his hands. And eventually, inevitably almost, a drink problem arose.
True to character, Ringo is honest and succinct in summing up his lost years. 'I've got photographs of me playing all over the world,' he once said, 'but I've absolutely no memory of it. I played Washington with the Beach Boys - or so they tell me. But there's only a photo to prove it.'
Finally in 1988 he and Barbara, who had joined him in his alcoholism, went into a rehab clinic in Tucson, Arizona. He'd recognised for some time that he had a problem, but it was only when he began to worry that he couldn't stop drinking that he sought help.
'I'm not a violent man,' he remembered recently, 'but I was getting violent. And it was just painful, waking up in the morning and starting drinking again.' At one point he trashed his own house.
He was lucky. The clinic saved him. Since then he's been on the wagon, not a drink - nor a drug - passing his lips, with funds being set aside to go to charities helping others whose lives have been wrecked by drugs or drink.
Music had steered his life since his stepfather bought him a £10 set of drums when he was a teenager, and it was music which was to reshape his future after his years of alcoholism.
In 1989, he put together his own group, Ringo's All Starr Band, an ever-changing group of musician friends like Gary Brooker of Procol Harum, Joe Walsh from the Eagles, Dave Edmunds, Peter Frampton, Jack Bruce and Billy Preston.
And with a variety of different line-ups, the All Starr Band has been playing ever since.
'For me, it works as a great formula,' he says. 'It's an incredible array of musicians. Everyone has had hit records, so the show consists of me up front and then I go back behind the drum kit and support the others. It's just good music and I'm having a lot of fun.'
Quite why he frequently tours America, Japan and even some European countries but not Britain is unclear, other than for his feeling - quite wrongly, I believe - that he isn't loved over here.
Perhaps it's because it was the Americans who 'discovered' him, in producer George Martin's words, on The Beatles' first U.S. tour, that he feels so at home there.
Certainly, to be noticed in the first rush of British Beatlemania, behind the egos of McCartney and Lennon, can't have been easy, and in his earliest days with the group he could have been forgiven for a sense of insecurity.
Not even invited to John Lennon's first wedding, he was initially so nervous he was replaced on drums at The Beatles' first recording session.
Little by little, however, he gradually found his feet and his confidence with the band, but it's interesting that a couple of years ago he published a book of postcards from John, Paul and George, Postcards From The Boys, which they'd sent to him from around the world in the Sixties and which he'd kept.
Did the other Beatles keep all the postcards he sent them, one wonders. I'd be surprised.
He and Barbara Bach never had children together, but his sons from his first marriage both became musicians: Zak, the elder, making a successful career playing drums (at first with his father's All Star Band and more recently with The Who and Oasis), while his daughter, Lee, is a fashion designer.
To many readers, Ringo will, of course, be far more famous as the deep, warm, Liverpool voice which narrated the early Thomas The Tank Engine television shows, which have been endlessly rerun for more than 20 years, than he ever will as a Beatle.
But if the number of names on that petition to the Prime Minister for him to be knighted grows so long that it simply can't be ignored, and if, one day, Richard Starkey, the poorly little boy from Liverpool's Dingle area, becomes Sir Ringo Starr, it won't be for entertaining millions of small children.
Instead, it will be for his one quarter part in the most famous band ever, an English group which helped redefine Britain's place in the cultural world. It will be because he is one of only two surviving Beatles. And Paul McCartney is already a Sir.
If they can give a knighthood to Tom Jones, how can they possibly turn down Ringo?
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| 23rd December 2006 12:23 AM |
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| Nellcote |
I used to like them.
Then John died.
Then Paul let the music slip away.
Then Free As A Bird was released, I knew it was over.
I do not ever listen to them, ever.
I kind of cringe when they come on.
This says nothing for what they did.
I thank them for giving The Stones, I Wanna Be Your Man.
I've moved on, it's easier that way.
Now, I can take three of them as solo artists anytime, however, Macca, only a few Wings songs.
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| 23rd December 2006 05:23 AM |
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| corgi37 |
Always fucking hated them.
Still fucking hate them.
Will always fucking hate them. |
| 23rd December 2006 08:24 AM |
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| Honky Tonk Man |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
I just heard that for the first time a few days ago. I almost had to pull over the car and vomit.
You've just heard it for the first time? What is this? Your first Christmas?? I have to admit though, I have pronbably only heard it once or twice this year. It makes me hate this time of year more than I already do.  |
| 23rd December 2006 09:50 AM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
Honky Tonk Man wrote:
You've just heard it for the first time? What is this? Your first Christmas?? I have to admit though, I have pronbably only heard it once or twice this year. It makes me hate this time of year more than I already do.
I don't know. Just slipped through the cracks somehow. Or maybe I hadn't heard it in years and just forgotten about it. That's a hard song to forget, though.
[Edited by Mel Belli] |
| 23rd December 2006 09:57 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
The moon is right
The spirits up
Were here tonight
And thats enough
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
The partys on
The feelins here
That only comes
This time of year
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
The choir of children sing their song
Ding dong, ding dong
Ding dong, ding ohhhh
Ohhhhhhh
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
The word is out
About the town
To lift a glass
Ahhh dont look down
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
The choir of children sing their song
They practiced all year long
Ding dong, ding dong
Ding dong, ding dong
Ding dong, ding dong
The partys on
The spirits up
Were here tonight
And thats enough
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
The moon is right
The spirits up
Were here tonight
And thats enough
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Simply having a wonderful christmastime
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Christmatime
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
| 23rd December 2006 11:29 AM |
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| Honky Tonk Man |
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
Yes. Lets be honest. They were a pop boy band. Matching clothes, sacharine sweet songs song to teeny bopper girls. Cleverly marketed. They paved the way for generations of boy bands. They were the blue print.
I hate them.
The suits, clean image etc was all down to Epstein. Just like the Stones scruffy and rebellious image was down to Andrew Loog Oldham. It was all marketing in their manager’s part. They were most DEFINITELY not a manufactured boy band. If you want to think that about The Beatles, then by that logic, you have to think that of the Stones too.
The Beatles started life as leather-clad rockers playing boozy amphetamine fuelled gigs in Hamburg in front of drunken sailors and prostitutes.
Cosy gigs at the Marquee or the Crawdaddy seem pretty lame in comparison.
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| 23rd December 2006 04:49 PM |
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| MrPleasant |
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| 23rd December 2006 05:19 PM |
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| speedfreakjive |
Beatles?
no balls.
Seriously though, I really think the Stones have more musical breadth and depth both in terms of lyrics and the effect of the music on the listener. |
| 23rd December 2006 07:31 PM |
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| guitarman53 |
If it wasn't for the Beatles, the rolling Stones would never been heard of!!!!even in the 60's, a lot of groups (Dave clark 5/Gerry & Pacemakers/Herman Hermits, etc,etc)were more popular then the Stones, the 2nd single they released "I Wanna Be Your Man" was a Beatles song, they (Stones) didn't know how to write songs, so let's give credit where credit is due, if it wasn't for the Beatles none of these British groups would never be 'known, so face facts. |
| 23rd December 2006 07:39 PM |
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| Navin |
If they were so great, how come they fell for all that spirituality crap |
| 23rd December 2006 07:44 PM |
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| MrPleasant |
quote:
Navin wrote:
If they were so great, how come they fell for all that spirituality crap
Only George did. But, apparently, he was keen to the idea of wife swapping, so not everything was lost. |
| 23rd December 2006 08:18 PM |
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| Honky Tonk Man |
quote:
Navin wrote:
If they were so great, how come they fell for all that spirituality crap
What a load of bollocks. What does that have to do with anything? They didn't fall for anything actually. It was a brief phase and as Mr Pleasant has pointed it out, only George Harrison remained interested. Jagger and Brian Jones were interested for a bit too. |
| 24th December 2006 01:09 AM |
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| Kilroy |
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Willful ignorance is not an optimal lifestyle choice, son. Before the Beatles, record companies controlled musicians' output. The Beatles broke that stranglehold and put the artists themselves in charge. The Stones and all other Sixties groups benefited from that change. In that sense, the Beatles were the opposite of today's boy bands. As no less an expert on the history of popular music than Keith Richards observed, "The Beatles kicked the door open. We came through and held it open." As for saccharine sweet, Mick wishes he could have produced as soulful a sound back in '64 as John Lennon gave on Twist and Shout.
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
Word said, correctly Thank you. |
| 24th December 2006 01:22 AM |
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| LastChild |
quote:
Lethargy wrote:
Most overrated band of all time. I kind of like them. But even though The Stones are #1 to me, I'm not sure The Beatles are even in the Top Twenty.
nirvana?? |
| 24th December 2006 07:35 AM |
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| bon jovi |
Mick Jagger was madly in love with John Lennon. Always was following him around.
New Yok City, 1977. |
| 27th December 2006 09:06 PM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
quote:
Navin wrote:
If they were so great, how come they fell for all that spirituality crap
Yeah. Suckers. Heh-heh-heh.
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| 27th December 2006 09:43 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Anyone that does not give the Beatles their due is a complete and utter idiot! This is not even about opinions here either. The Beatles single handedly changed the direction of popular music for all acts that have followed including the Stones. To deny that very real fact shows an absurd amount of ignorance at the very least,and sheer willfull stupidity in the extreme. To compare the Beatles to the boy bands of today is about as stupid a post as I have ever read on these boards. Simply put,the Beatles were pure genius in the art of songwriting and songcraft. The melodies,and structural elements that they wrote were simply astounding. Lance Bass never once wrote melodic sting section lines or brass arangements like John did. Justin Timberfuck could never write the very difficult accoustic guitar tabs from Blackbird like Paul did.
I have always said that the Beatles were the greatest pop band of all time,and that the Stones were the greatest rock and roll band of all time. There is nothing at all wrong with pop music if it's done well,and the Beatles did it better than anyone.
Riffy |
| 27th December 2006 09:53 PM |
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| Altamont |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
There is nothing at all wrong with pop music if it's done well,and the Beatles did it better than anyone.
Riffy
I agree Riffy. Alot of times the word "pop" gets lumped into some bubblegum crap category. But that's not fair. I mean look at the Ramones; great band, yet very pop oriented. A good hook or melody isn't a bad thing! |
| 27th December 2006 10:27 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Altamont wrote:
I agree Riffy. Alot of times the word "pop" gets lumped into some bubblegum crap category. But that's not fair. I mean look at the Ramones; great band, yet very pop oriented. A good hook or melody isn't a bad thing!
Exactly! I have many fond memories as a child cranking up Penny Lane back in the 60's. That song alone shows the Beatles to be brilliant songwriters. Sure,it's not rock and roll,but then again could the Stones have written that great horn section in this classic "pop" song? Huh,no,hell no. It's a great song because it can stand on it's own merit without any kind of stupid classification.
I mean just the imagery that that song conveys is great. I remember my mother giving me a book called The Beatles England about 20 years ago. The book was basically just a Beatles fan's sightseeing book of various Beatles locations throughout England. Each page had different locations with stories of how they related to the Beatles. For example there was a picture of the actual Strawberry Fields childrens' home that inspired John to write that great song. Anyway,there was also a picture of Penny Lane in Liverpool. The picture looked exactly like the song discribed it! Identical. Down to the firehouse,the barber,the roundabout,and the blue suburban sky. That is great songwriting when you can paint such a vivid picture with lyrics. Pop song or not it's a great tune. As Sam Cutler says in Gimme Shelter,"If people didn't dig it I'm sorry!"
Riffy |
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