|
|
| glencar |
I rarely do this but: I TOTALLY AGREE WITH GAZZA!!! |
|
|
| Gazza |
Fuck off
LOL |
|
|
| glencar |
LOL Just trying the all caps thing... |
|
|
| Gazza |
>Secondly I disagree with Gazza on the point of No Security. Love You Live is imo a great live album: the El Mocambo site is still one of the best performances of the Stones ever recorded. But I agree with Gazza's analysis that the Stones annoy many fans with releasing live album number 7 or 8. It's a cheap trick to please some fans who even like the sound of Keith Richard flushing the toilet.
Talkin' of which, I've got a tape that a friend from Austria sent me which he recorded of Keith, Woody and Chuck Leavell harmonising (?) on "Sea of Love" in a Vienna toilet in 1982 when the band were out at some local club to celebrate Jerry Hall's birthday the night before a Stones gig there. He followed them to the WC to get an autograph, was stopped by a bodyguard from goin' on while they tinkled away in private but recorded the singalong from outside. I'm sure there's people who would pay for that if they released it!
|
|
|
| Gazza |
>LOL Just trying the all caps thing...
are you Perks in disguise? Shit, we agree sometimes I thought. The "Philly february 2005" nonsense the other week was another example. Two in the same month! |
|
|
| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
>Sales? Who care about sales. I care about music. It adds much to my life.
Let me clarify this. I don't give a flying fuck about record sales personally. However, I do give a shit about the band's legacy and long term reputation. And releasing a series of pointless time-filling and contractual obligation cash-in's is affecting that. Yes, it's better than 'nothing' but I'd rather see them put out something that I can look forward to a bit more positively than "its better than nothing".
Why do you say it's a cash in? You haven't heard the album yet. I've found when the Stones release live versions they have a new way and have new things to offer. It's great that they are redoing song to enjoy all over again.
quote:
I didn't say "No Security" was a bad album. It wasn't. (As far as their live albums go, its better than Flashpoint, Still Life, Got Live if You Want It and Love You Live).
No way was it better than Still Life and Love you Live.
quote:
I'll give them some credit for the track listing as it meant we didnt get "Satisfaction" and "Jumpin Jack Flash" for the zillionth time on a live album. Decent track listing, good performances but not an album I'd personally listen to much these days. Plenty of boots give a better representation of that tour.
It's not about representation. It's about a live album. There were great tracks on No Security that you couldn't get else where and it sounds great.
quote:
I just don't think the world needs a live album from EVERY tour.
I do! I love'm.
quote:
I also think the DVD covered the tour more than adequately. In fact it was a magnificent release which rendered the concept of live albums redundant.
I t covered the tour OK. But I'm hoping for a great rare CD as advertised by some. The Paris show wasn't a great show.
quote:
And 1 CD of this new one we're promised will feature the "well known songs" - great, so that will make it the 5th live album to feature "Jumpin Jack Flash" and "Sympathy", and the fourth official live outing for "Satisfaction", "Tumbling dice" and "You cant always get what you want". Hold me back, HMV!
I haven't seen the track list but it would be great to have the Twickenham version.
quote:
I also think they could and should have released this six months ago or more. The tour will have been over almost a year before this album hits the shops. It's almost ancient history when you leave the release of a tour live "souvenir" that long, especially with a new studio album and tour hopefully in the near future.
It would be more sucessful to release it in the Fall for the Christmas market.
quote:
>If the Stones didn't have time or whatever to put out a studio album then it would be great to have a live album with a bteer version of Worried About You, Hand of Fate etc.
theres a slight flaw in the first few words of your argument, exile. The Stones have had SEVEN FUCKING YEARS to "have time to put out a studio album". OK, take off maybe four years of that for the amount of time they've been on the road since then, but it still adds up to a chronic lack of ambition and inspiration whatever way you care to look at it.
I can't speak for them but like I said I'm glad to have a live alum instead of nothing. I would think that that should have had a studio album out by now but I'm glad there re still going even if they are slowing down in their old age.
quote:
at least it seems that what should be on this album is more promising than what we'd originally believed it to be (ie the live compilation). Thank heavens for small mercies.
Who started that rumor? I never believed it for a second. It just didn't make sense just like the stupid story that Virgin was paying Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman to rejopin the Stones. Like Virgin would have any say?
quote:
>A far as editing to fuck does that include overdubs? They do great overdubs!!!
Consider this. Of all the Stones live albums theyve put out since 1966, the combined number of songs that have been released on them that HAVENT been either edited or had overdubs on them can be counted on one hand. Literally!
What's the point even if those 'facts' are true?
quote:
Now, the Stones record EVERY show they play and have done since the early 1970's. Not necessarily for the possibility of live release - generally just for their own private use - but still, that means that in all the time from 1972 - 2003 thats about 700 shows that have been professionally recorded.
Who started 'they record every show rumor? I don't believe it. What is your source for that info?
quote:
Yet every live release sees them feel the need to overdub or butcher what are very often quite good performances.
I believe the word is enhance.
quote:
Now surely it cant be THAT hard to find a couple of hours worth of performances that can be put onto a double CD
Why when say on No Security there a great You Got Me Rocking and add some great extra lead overlapping the solo. It was fucking brillant! I love it!
quote:
(even if its culled from several different shows)
Would that be the same bad thing?
quote:
in unedited and undubbed form with a track listing and running order that gives it the FEEL of a single, flowing performance?
What songs don't you like on the live albums due to overdubs etc?
quote:
That's another minor gripe about this upcoming release. A CD of warhorses and a CD of rarities. No natural 'flow' to it. Cd 1 is obviously aimed at sales because they fear another bomb like No Security.
[Edited by Gazza]
I'm not sure they are looking for a natural flow. I think they are trying to make a great live album like Still Life or Yayas?
How do you know what they fear?
I love the idea of two live albums.
It's been fun. |
|
|
| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Theyve ALWAYS edited and overdubbed live albums, TTM. Get Yer Ya Yas Out (an album I love) is as heavily overdubbed as any of the others and having heard the shows on that tour in unedited and raw form, they certainly COULD "cut the mustard" back then.
Are you saying Yayas would be better without overdubs?
Listening to many concerts from 1969 the last few were the best. |
|
|
| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Bloozehound wrote:
Better than YaYa's, wow!
I think Love You Live would be better without a few of the tracks on it. |
|
|
| glencar |
Gazza, I was referring to the ALL CAPS mode. You & I seem to agree on most Rolling Stones matters. I do like Still Life more than NS although that's just these days. Things like that are ever-changing in my world. |
|
|
| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
F505 wrote:
First of all the opinion "if your not excited about a new live Stones album then you must not be a big Stones fan" is the greatest bullshit I heard in years. It's very childish to put it this way. When I was 12 years old I used this kind of 'arguments'. Please stay critical even if the Stones are involved.
Why is it childish? I don't get your point.
Secondly I disagree with Gazza on the point of No Security. Love You Live is imo a great live album: the El Mocambo site is still one of the best performances of the Stones ever recorded. But I agree with Gazza's analysis that the Stones annoy many fans with releasing live album number 7 or 8. It's a cheap trick to please some fans who even like the sound of Keith Richard flushing the toilet.
[/quote]
Ah come on. Cheap trick. It's a free world you don't have to buy it. Why do you say it's a cheap trick?
Evrybody know how to tell the Stones how to be better. The Stones got it figured out that's why they are so great! |
|
|
| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Bloozehound wrote:
This is sounding a bit better, I'll give it a look when it comes out.
It would be cool if they released one disc of their rarities from the tour, and the other disc was made up of cover songs they did on the tour, if indeed they did enough cover songs to fill up an entire disc.
Yeah. It's a great idea that pleases everone but Gazza!!!! |
|
|
| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Soldatti wrote:
Well, Flashpoint is a little better than Love You Live IMO...
There's no accounting for taste but there wasn't much on Flashpoint I really liked, only a few tracks but it's great that you like it. |
|
|
| Gazza |
>Why do you say it's a cash in? You haven't heard the album yet.
because they do it every tour. No one else does (well apart from the Dead). Not having heard the album is another thing entirely. I'm sure there'll be good performances on it. I just think the idea is redundant.
>No way was it better than Still Life and Love you Live.
matter of opinion. I think LYL is horrendous and always have done.
>I do! I love'm.
Goin' by the sales of their last live album, I don't think even the Stones are convinced. And that was released on the eve of a major US tour.
>It would be more sucessful to release it in the Fall for the Christmas market.
We would think and hope that. However, No Security was released in mid November and it bombed. Last Fall or a few months later would have made more sense when the tour had just ended.
>I can't speak for them but like I said I'm glad to have a live alum instead of nothing. I would think that that should have had a studio album out by now but I'm glad there re still going even if they are slowing down in their old age.
well..I'll agree its better than nothing. Of course. I just aim my sights and expectations a bit higher than that though. Thats my perspective.
>Who started that rumor? I never believed it for a second. It just didn't make sense just like the stupid story that Virgin was paying Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman to rejopin the Stones. Like Virgin would have any say?
It wasnt some silly internet rumour. See my previous post.
>What's the point even if those 'facts' are true?
no apostrophes needed. They are pretty much true. The point? well...a proper live album from the worlds greatest live band would be nice to have. Its easy to get a full show on 2 CD's, unedited and undubbed - even a composite show from different recordings. The Stones are a great live band. They don't NEED studio perfection to tinker with their live sound.
>Who started 'they record every show rumor? I don't believe it. What is your source for that info?
Its not a rumour! They record every show even if its for their own personal use. Mathijs I'm sure will back me up on that.
> believe the word is enhance.
whats the point of calling it a live album then. This is the Stones, not the Eagles.
>What songs don't you like on the live albums due to overdubs etc?
I didnt say I disliked them per se. I think it's better if there isnt so much overdubbing, although the main problem I have is with editing them down ("Sympathy" on 'Flashpoint' for one, "You cant always get what you want" and "Fingerprint File" on "lOve You Live" etc)
>I'm not sure they are looking for a natural flow. I think they are trying to make a great live album like Still Life or Yayas?
they're getting enough practice!
>I love the idea of two live albums.It's been fun.
yes, quite a giggle to pass an afternoon 
|
|
|
| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Oh I think its a lot better..lol
All this chitter chatter has made me dig the live albums (and some live CD singles)
That's what's cool about these internet Stones forums.
LYL I just could never warm to. I think the '76 tour was the band's worst ever and Mick's singing is just breathless coke-induced shouting
[/quote]
Coke? He was doing coke when singing Love You Live? Really?
quote:
(listen to JJ Flash on that album, its awful).
Dude, your way off here Jumping Jack on LYL is awesome. One of the very best versions!
quote:
"Fingerprint File" is very good on it (and its from '75, not '76) and a couple of others arent bad,
FF sucks. It should have been a b-side.
quote:
but apart from the El Mocambo songs, I think the rest is subpar. The El Mocambo songs are, as I've said before, truly wonderful.
Cracking up and Around and Around are great. I could do with out the rest of it.
quote:
"Still Life" I have a bit of an attachment to because it was MY first Stones tour. It's patchy and hasnt aged well but has its moments, Under my thumb, Time is on My Side and Just My Imagination are pretty good (I love the Hampton version of "Go Go" that they used for the promo video, far better than the one on the album). What I do like about that album is the way its mixed with the audience noise. It has a great atmosphere. And that intro and the opening chords of Under My Thumb just takes me back to Slane Castle exactly 22 years ago today....
It's a great party album. Let's Spend the Night Togeteher rocks!
quote:
"Flashpoint" - has some magnificent performances. "Factory Girl", "Ruby Tuesday", "YCAGWYW", "Rooster", "Paint It Black" are all superb, but are outshone by the most majestic version of "Sympathy" from Tokyo. Shame they butchered two incredible solos by Keith on this version because its the best version of the song I've ever heard them perform. In fact, that Tokyo show should have been the whole album. Best Stones show of the 90's. Theres some cracking non album bonus tracks on the CD singles too ("Play with Fire" and "I just wanna make love to you" for starters). Oh, plus "Flashpoint" has "High Wire" on it too, so thats worth an extra round of applause on its own. Terrific song!
Don't forget Miss You and Sda Sad Sad! The two best songs along with Factory Girl.
quote:
"Got Live if You want it" - very muddy tapes of young girls screaming, with a band playing in the background. Almost all of it done in the studio - in fact, two songs are COMPLETELY done in the studio with screams overdubbed.
"Ya Ya's" - Simply the greatest live album ever made by anyone. And, in this version of "Midnight Rambler" possibly the musical highlight of the Stones' entire officially released output.
"Stripped" - Always liked this one because it was such a different concept than the usual live albums. Even if only 6 of the songs are actually from live performances and the rest is studio. Some good b-sides from these singles too.
"No Security" - gave this a spin again tonight for the first time in quite a while. There's some gems on it - especially the two BTB songs from Buenos Aires. "Out of Control" is especially breathtaking. I always wanted to hear "Memory Motel" on a live album - pity it had to be this version with Dave Matthews. Good to finally see "Gimme Shelter" on a live record (previously there were 2 live versions available, from '89 and '95, but the first was on a hard to find UK charity cassette single and the second was a CD single). "Respectable" I like on this too, although I think I'm in the minority!
Respectable is the best song on the dam thing!
quote:
maybe I'll burn my own "Live CD compilation". As long as the band dont get that idea and release such an album!
Don't do that. You'll hate it! Remember? 
|
|
|
| Gazza |
>Are you saying Yayas would be better without overdubs?
Listening to many concerts from 1969 the last few were the best
My point to TTM was that theyve felt the need to doctor every live album in the studio, even the ones where the original performances were close to perfection in their own right (Ya Yas) as well as the ones were they were far from it (LYL etc)
>Yeah. It's a great idea that pleases everone but Gazza!!!!
LOL. Somehow I don't think so
|
|
|
| F505 |
I lost the thread in this discussion. Can someone give me a summary? |
|
|
| Gazza |
the Stones are about to release a new live record.
Great idea or redundant concept? Discuss. |
|
|
| Gazza |
actually YOU fuckin' STARTED the thread and gave your opinion in about the 3rd post...LOL |
|
|
| Soldatti |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
actually YOU fuckin' STARTED the thread and gave your opinion in about the 3rd post...LOL
|
|
|
| corgi37 |
You people astound me. It must be a "Northern Hemisphere" thing. How, in the name of double facial cum-shots, can ANYONE not like LYL??? And, worse, to prefer No Security instead?? You are all weird, weird people. Gazza, you mentioned the editing of FF on LYL. What do you mean? Can you point the editing out to me? I just cant fathom what you meant.
As for overdubs, every band does it for a live release.
As for recording all shows - Yep, the Stones sure do. In fact, might have been the first band (along with Floyd) to do so. Nowadays, EVERYONE does it. The more progressive bands, like those youngsters THE WHO, sell cd's of each show after the gig. Pearl Jam have done that for ages. Why havent the Stones twigged onto that idea? Makes more financial sense than releasing some crappy over-produced bullshit. I would love to have a Melbourne gig, than the bloody usual U.S. or U.K. stuff. What do i care if they play Madison Square Garden? I'd way prefer Melbourne MCG 95, or Rod Laver Arena Feb 03. Just to say "I was there, man".
See, thats a small gripe i have with 4 Flicks. Fucking hell, seeing as they hardly tour here, why couldnt they include the Enmore gig in the set, in place of bloody Paris? With Ac/Dc as guests, and Marianne Faithfull in the crowd, and with thousands of sweet Aussies sitting outside the theatre, many on couches and loung chairs. Fuck, give us a break. More atmosphere than those cheese eating surrender monkeys (kidding!). Hell, we are part of the coalition of the willing, for God sake!
Even before we knew which gigs were going to be included, i know i said "No doubt,U.S. (because if not, most Yanks wont buy it), probably U.K., cause they come from there, and probably Europe, because of potential sales". Or, words to that effect. I mean, wow!! Original or what??? Madison Square Garden!! OOooooohhhhhh!! Despit it was an average performance. And, nothing virtually even mentioned on 4 Flicks about Oz. Nooooo, more about bloody India.
Damn their oily hides! |
|
|
| BILL PERKS |
I APPRECIATE ANY STONES RELEASE THAT DOESNT INCLUDE PREVIOUSLY RELEASED TRACKS(LIVE)
A GOOD 2002-03 LIVE ALBUM COULD INCLUDE
HEART OF STONE
IF YOU CANT ROCK ME
NEARNESS OF YOU
THRU AND THRU
DONT STOP
SHE SMILED SWEETLY
NO EXPECTATIONS
WORRIED ABOUT YOU
NEIGHBORS
CANT YOU HEAR ME KNOCKIN
WHEN THE WHIP COMES DOWN
CANT TURN YOU LOOSE
HAND OF FATE
GAZZA, I DONT KNOW WHY YOU'VE GOT YOUR BLOOMERS IN A BUNCH |
|
|
| BILL PERKS |
GAZZA-ITS NOT LIKE YOU TO RESPOND TO SOMETHING THAT DOESNT HAVE BASIS IN FACT-THIS IS NOTHING BUT RUMOR AT THIS TIME,OUR JAPANESE SOURCES NOTWITHSTANDING.
HOW BOUT A LIVE CD OF BILL CLINTON SPEECHES!!!!! |
|
|
| F505 |
quote:
BILL PERKS wrote:
HOW BOUT A LIVE CD OF BILL CLINTON SPEECHES!!!!!
Actually I have a live cd of Clinton playing sax in Prague... Not bad I tell you |
|
|
| Gazza |
>GAZZA, I DONT KNOW WHY YOU'VE GOT YOUR BLOOMERS IN A BUNCH
LOL. I just like to play Devil's Advocate, Bill. There's method in my madness. 83 posts to date on a Stones-related topic. A rarity for this board of late. Still,we've one with 156 posts because Josh told us he was goin' on holiday, so we've a bit to go!
|
|
|
| Gazza |
>Gazza, you mentioned the editing of FF on LYL. What do you mean? Can you point the editing out to me? I just cant fathom what you meant.
Ok - check this article out. Its concerning LYL and Still Life and appeared in a Stones fan magazine about 15 years ago. Thankfully, its on the web to avoid me typin' it all out.
http://home.datacomm.ch/mik/ba/r/rolling_stones/charlie/texts/stilllifeandloveyoulive.html
As you can see on the left by the times of the original songs and the versions they released, there's quite a bit of studio doctoring and editing. Whether anyone thinks its a good thing, bad thing or irrelevant is a moot point but it's an interesting bit of research and shows theres a lot more work to a Stones live album than just collecting a few live songs and sticking them onto a CD |
|
|
| Nasty Habits |
I have to add my voices to the choir of those who just don't "get" the non-Macambo sides of Love You Live. To me they just sound loose, uninspired, and rather ass. But in the interest of international Stones solidarity, I am gonna play that bloated dinosaur today and see what conclusions I can come to. In the name of double facials, as it were.
The reason that yet another live album is so disappointing to me and ultimately, in my opinion, tarnational to the Stones reputation is that it points up their fallowness as creative artists. While I am sure I will have some use for a live album with a well recorded Love Train, Nearness of You, Thru & Thru, Dance, Heart of Stone (did they drop this one from the theater setlists? I can't remember. If so, why? It was great, except for Keith's solos . . .), just like I've had a use for some isolated cuts on No Security, Flashpoint, Stripped, Still Life, and LYL. But it does nothing to dispel the public impression that they have nothing new to say and makes them look even more like the greedy and clueless profiteers they seem to be nowadays. Four Flicks circumnavigated the issue by going video and doing a pretty good job of exploiting the new audio/visual home theater nexus, not to mention the power of contemporary corporate collusion, so they appeared cutting edge in some way or other, but a Licks Live album is nothing more than a rehash of Four Flicks even if it uses different performances.
One can only reheat leftovers so many times before all the flavor is gone. |
|
|
| glencar |
I got this from IORR:
Tracks for the LIVE LICKS album are not confirmed yet, but it is said that there will be one CD with well known Stones songs, to be released in some markets, and another 2CD product, with the first CD plus an additional CD with rarer songs played during the LICKS tour.
The following is a list of racks rumoured to appear on LIVE LICKS. Please note that this list is unconfirmed. The list may change!
Ain't Too Proud To Beg/ All Down The Line/ Angie/ Beast Of Burden/ Before They Make Me Run/ Bitch/ Brown Sugar/ I Can't Turn You Loose/ Can't You Hear Me Knockin'/ Dance Pt 1/ Don't Stop/ Everybody Needs Somebody To Love/ Far Away Eyes/ Gimme Shelter/ Hand Of Fate/ Happy/ Heart Of Stone/ Honky Tonk Women/ I Just Wanna Make Love To You/ Let It Bleed/ Love Train/ Loving Cup/ Mannish Boy/ Midnight Rambler/ Monkey Man/ The Nearness Of You/ No Expectations/ Parachute Woman/ Rip This Joint/ Rock Me Baby/ Rocks Off/ Satisfaction/ Stray Cat Blues/ Street Fighting Man/ Sweet Virginia/ Sympathy For The Devil/ That's How Strong My Love Is/ Thru and Thru/ Undercover/ Wild Horses |
|
|
| gimmekeef |
Is this thread over....I'm already over it! |
|
|
| glencar |
If that set list is accurate, I'll buy several copies! |
|
|
| Gazza |
That not a setlist - its a rumoured shortlist!
If that was the track listing, the songs will be about 3 minutes each!
Great post, Nasty - well, apart from the El Mocambo bit
[Edited by Gazza] |
|
CHAT
ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [
RESTROOMS]