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| Jair |
The song Bitter Sweet Symphony has been recorded some time
by the Stones?
If so, where to find it? 
Also, does anybody recalls what Keith said when The Verve did the recording?
Thanx!
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
I think that the Verve just used a very small stones sample in that tune didnt they?
The Last Time
Correct me if Im wrong |
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| mmdog |
quote:
Voodoo Scrounge wrote:
I think that the Verve just used a very small stones sample in that tune didnt they?
The Last Time
Correct me if Im wrong
It was a really big sample. Basically the whole song. I dont recall Jagger or Richards having much to say about it. |
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| The_Worst |
quote:
Jair wrote:
The song Bitter Sweet Symphony has been recorded some time
by the Stones?
If so, where to find it?
Also, does anybody recalls what Keith said when The Verve did the recording?
Thanx!
I'm sorry but I never heard any resembelence to any Stones song in that song...Was it really a ripoff of "The Last Time"? I thought it was supposed to be based on "As Tears Go By?" Either way, I don't hear it...What part is ripped off? |
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| M.O.W.A.T. |
Bitter Sweet Symphony has a sample of The Last Time as performed by The Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra (basically a symphony orchestra that ALO hired to perform Stones songs in an attempt to cash in on the Stones popularity in the early 60's). |
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| mac_daddy |
it was the last time, as performed by a symphony - one of andrew oldham's ideas...
it did go throught the whole song, it was the biggest hit that band ever had, and allen klein, mick and keef sued, won, and took ALL of the song's proceeds. keef is apparantly very ANTI sampling, and in fact they wont give their permission to anybody that want to sample their music and will sue if samples are used without permission...
all the scratch that nike paid to use the song wen to klein and the stones, too...
that band the verve was apparently devastated by all of this, and disbanded shortly thereafter...
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| Gazza |
quote:
mac_daddy wrote:
it was the last time, as performed by a symphony - one of andrew oldham's ideas...
it did go throught the whole song, it was the biggest hit that band ever had, and allen klein, mick and keef sued, won, and took ALL of the song's proceeds. keef is apparantly very ANTI sampling, and in fact they wont give their permission to anybody that want to sample their music and will sue if samples are used without permission...
If thats the case, then they've quite a nerve as "Anybody seen my Baby" sampled a track by Biz Markie as far as I can recall and they also blatantly plagiarised a few notes from both "papa was a Rolling Stone" and "Riders on the Storm" on the song "Out of Control" on the same album.
I got the impression it was Klein/ABKCO who took legal action over "Bittersweet Symphony", although I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong. Jagger/Richards DID get the full writing credit however, which was a nonsensical decision as they didnt even compose the arrangement that had been sampled, let alone the lyrics to the Verve song. |
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| Steamboat Bill, Jr. |
I don't think there were any lawsuits. Klein simply demanded a shitload of money for the band to use the sample because he is a fat, greedy, disgusting bastard. The band went broke and ended up disbanding. |
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| glencar |
It was actually a great video of the lead singer walking down the street bumping into people. |
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| mac_daddy |
dont know for sure, gazza, but i do know i have read places that the glimmer twins flat-out will NOT grant the right to sample to anybody...
and as for out of control and anybody seen my baby, i try really hard to forget those songs were actually penned by the stones. did they really sample biz markie..? isnt he that fat guy that does the "you, you got what i need. and you say he's just a friend, and you say he's just a friend" tune..? yikes!
which was the tune where mick would try and rap when they did it live..? iirc, they (i assume mick and bernard) would list off names of cities, and it just couldnt be weaker. i mean, at least justin t sang, and watching justin follow mick around the stage like a smitten schoolgirl was endearing in a way. but NOTHING can salvage that tired rap act. i really hope they shelve that debacle this tour - there is not enough room on a setlist for those two numbers, and that mick/bernard rap was flat out embarrassing. |
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| glencar |
Yes, Biz Markie did "Just A Friend." In the video, he had a Mozart wig & he was kind of funny. Mick & Bernard attempted a rap of the sample in ASMB & it usually was weak. As for OOC, the Stones did rip off HDH but how many times has that happened to them? The Kinks ripped off JJF for that Captain America song. |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
I got the impression it was Klein/ABKCO who took legal action over "Bittersweet Symphony", although I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong. Jagger/Richards DID get the full writing credit however, which was a nonsensical decision as they didnt even compose the arrangement that had been sampled, let alone the lyrics to the Verve song.
that's my recollection too gazza and klein took it all
and like you i was absolutely floored to hear that jagger/ richards got credit for the entire song given that the verve (ashcroft) wrote the lyrics and the melody and as you say they didn't even compose the arrangment that was sampled (tho i suspect THAT deal went down when ALO's original work was done)- a 50/50 split would have been equitable i would have thought - i mean if i had written the lyrics to a song that sold that many copies i'd want something for the effort |
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| glencar |
I read that they split it 50/50 but who knows besides the attorneys? |
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| Gazza |
no. they definitely got the lot! |
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| Soldatti |
The official credits for the song was Jagger/Richards, Richard Ashcroft lyrics.
This guy said in 1998: "It was the best song that wrote Jagger & Richards in more than 20 years." LOL. |
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
Im not sure about who won any amounts of money. I just remember the song being absolutely huge. It got to number one I think.
The Verve had another song called "The drugs dont work". That was another huge hit in the UK.
I was never too keen on those two songs. But there were some great songs on the album (Urban Hymes). I remember a song called "Sonnet" being particularly good.
Its true the band split not long after that album. I didnt think it was through any money issues though.
The lead singer Richard Ashcroft released a solo album "Alone with everybody" which was quite a success. A good track to download off of that album is "A song for the lovers". I think that made it to number one in the UK.
As for the other members of the band. Well all I know is that the lead guitarist took over from Graham Coxon in Blur.
Didnt the Rolling stones have to credit KD Lang's "Constant Craving" in ASMB? Didnt one of Keith or Micks Kids point out that they sounded similar?
The stones would be very hipocritical if they were so adverse to lending their tunes. They wouldnt be around today if they hadnt been able to cover other artists music in their early days.
I believe they should find out whats going to be produced from their sample before making up their minds.
BTW. I love anybody seen my baby!
[Edited by Voodoo Scrounge] |
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| UGot2Rollme |
quote:
Voodoo Scrounge wrote:
Didnt the Rolling stones have to credit KD Lang's "Constant Craving" in ASMB? Didnt one of Keith or Micks Kids point out that they sounded similar?
BTW. I love anybody seen my baby!
According to what I've read, it was Keith who told Mick that Anybody Seen my Baby sounded so muchlike Lang's Constant Craving taht they had to give her co-credit. I think it was a generous decision, the songs are very different - just a similarity to the melody line in part of the chorus.
Both of them are good tunes - but, I believe I'm in the minority in wanting the Stones to play it again On Stage. |
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
Couldnt agree with you more mate. I think its a great tune |
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| Honky Tonk Man |
I never tire of Bittersweet Symphony or it's amazing video.
If the only the Stones were still capable of cutting a classic like this and encapsulating a moment in time.
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| Soldatti |
quote:
UGot2Rollme wrote:
According to what I've read, it was Keith who told Mick that Anybody Seen my Baby sounded so muchlike Lang's Constant Craving taht they had to give her co-credit.
I believe that Keith's daughter was listening K.D Lang some day and Keith heard that similar chorus. |
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
Yeah, thats what I heard too. Just couldnt remember if it was mick or keith's daughter who was listening to KD Lang.
If I remember rightly. The stones didnt release that song over here in the UK.
I can remember watching MTV Europeaqn chart show and seeing the song in the top 5 for ages. I think it may have even got to number one. I loved it and was desperate to buy it in the UK but could never find it anywhere.
I think that would have been a hit here.
[Edited by Voodoo Scrounge] |
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| Lord Homosex |
I am pretty sure it was one of the daughters who heard a working mix of ASMB and commented on the similarity of the chorus. Only the chorus. But Keith and Jagger went ahead and added the co-writing credit. KD Lang in turn supposedly was very flattered and grateful.
As far as Bittersweet goes I thought it was a disgrace. A disgrace! That was a great tune. The Verve using that sample was micorcosm of how songs, popsongs are written in these days. That is just the way it fucking is. If no one had pointed that sample out to J/R does anyone think they would have ever spotted it on the radio? Have they ever even heard the Oldham orchestral version? The sample is also pretty short. Problem is it repeats over and over and kind of constitutes the musical hook. But the vocal line, the lyrics, the production fer fuk's sake, was original and great. Even if the twins won in the legal courts I feel they should have privately handed over the take from the hitsong to a struggling newish, very promising band. |
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| Honky Tonk Man |
I'm listening to Urban Hymns now and Iv'e got to say, there really is no excuse not to own it. It's flawless in my opinion. Theres so many great tunes. I'd forgotten how great songs like The Drugs Don't Work and Sonnet actually are.
For those interested, the exact credits for Bitter Sweet Symphony are as follows...
Performed by the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra
Produced by Andrew Log Oldham
Vocals by Richard Ashcroft
Bitter Sweet Symphony written by Mick Jagger & Keith Richards (WTF?)
Lyrics by Richard Ashcroft
Produced by Youth/The Verve
Additional production and mixing by Chris Potter |
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| Mr Jimmy |
The book Old Gods Almost Dead (Stephen Davis) has a lot of mistakes but on page 540 he writes:
"Keith was at home at Redlands that summer, obsessivly playing the tapes of the Stones' new album, now titled Bridges To Babylon. Late one afternoon, his daughter Angela and a friend were having their tea and listening to "Anybody Seen My Baby," which would be the first single, when they started singing along with different words. It turned out Mick had unconsciously appropriated the melody to k.d. lang's "Constant Craving." Keith made some quick calls and there was panic at the record company. The CD was already pressed, the video already shot in the New York subway. But k.d. lang said she was flattered and accepted a cowriting credit. Keith, who hadn't even played on the track, made Mick pay k.d. out of his pocket since it was Mick's mistake, one that Keith had long dreaded making himself." |
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
Yeah mate.
Lots of mistakes in that book but a great read anyway. I literally couldnt put it down. Read it in two days! |
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| Jair |
Bitter Sweet Symphony according Chris Potter, The Verve engineer (from the official website)
It started with the infamous Andrew Loog Oldham loop which Pete and Si (Jones) played over the top of. That loop, just for the record, is very little. It's a basic chord progression and a couple of bongos, it's not the string riff. It's no big deal. I've seen a couple of things where they say the strings were pinched, that's bullshit. Then we started laying down guitars and vocals and things. I remember we used quite a lot of loops. I think some of the guitars were looped guitars that start at the beginning of the track and end at the end of the track. We didn't have too much of a musical arrangement for it until quite late on. It hadn't been set in stone. A lot of things on this track go from beginning to end, playing all the way through on the tape, so we muted things in and out in order to get the musical arrangement. There are Nick's guitar noises at the beginning. It was one of the first things he played on. He gets amazing things out of guitar feedback, that you've never heard before. He seems to be able to control it and when you think about what guitar feedback is, it's a really difficult thing to keep a rein on and make the tones and noises that you want to. He's really incredibly good at it, so that's what those swirly, seagull noises are. He also plays some Coral (electric) Sitar on this. I still hear things in this record and I can't quite put my finger what they are, and I know exactly what's on it, I mixed the bloody thing. You can hear the way that some things mingle against each other and some sounds sort of intertwine producing some other sound as a result. There's a lot of stuff on it, it was a bit of a kitchen sink job sometimes, this record. Some of the sounds only come in for odd moments here and there, the odd bar. It was the right first single from the album but when it was first talked about as first single I was quite surprised. We hadn't finished it at that point and it developed much further until in the end there wasn't really any other choice. The first single couldn't have been anything else.
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| HardKnoxDurtySox |
quote:
Mr Jimmy wrote:
...Keith, who hadn't even played on the track...
The liner notes to Bridges suggest otherwise. |
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| Soldatti |
Keith played guitar in ASMB, you can hear a few lines with the classic Keith touch.
Line-up:
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Jamie Muhoberac
Acoustic guitar: Waddy Wachtel
Electric guitars: Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Ron Wood & Waddy Wachtel
Lead vocal: Mick Jagger
Sampled lead vocal: Biz Markie
Background vocals: Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Bernard Fowler & Blondie Chaplin
Keyboards: Don Was & Jamie Muhoberac
Shaker: Blondie Chaplin
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| Mr Jimmy |
Like I said... the book has a lot of mistakes! |
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| Gazza |
Keith doesnt play on "Saint of me" (the 2nd single). Maybe he was getting the two songs mixed up. |
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