| March 31st, 2005 04:16 PM |
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| kath |
about what? |
| March 31st, 2005 04:17 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
If this had been a lab rat or a monkey we were talking about imagine PETA's response?!
I'll send my entire Stones boot collection to anyone who can give a reasonable insight or explanation as to why Riffhard's question about PETA's response to the hypothetical starvation of a lab rat or monkey -- persistent vegitative state or not -- has anything to do with Schiavo's situation.
The whole kit and kaboodle, the whole ball of wax, the whole nine yards, Fed Ex'ed to your doorstep. Just help me link those two. When he starts talking this high level filosofy stuff, why my brain just can't keep up with him. |
| March 31st, 2005 04:18 PM |
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| kath |
A woman rushing to a hospital to give birth hit a few stops along the way first at a gas station where she delivered the baby herself, then when confused police ordered her out of the car at gunpoint.
Debbie Coleman, whose 3- and 4-year-old daughters were asleep in the back seat, pulled over at a gas station just after midnight Tuesday.
"I asked if she needed help, and she just leaned back in the seat, hollered a little, and I looked down and there was the baby's head," said station co-owner Lloyd Goff, who was alerted to the emergency at pump No. 7 by a customer.
Goff said Coleman "threw her leg over the steering wheel, groaned once, and the rest of the baby came out.
"She caught that baby, put it to her chest, gave me a look, like, 'I gotta go,' closed the door, put the van in gear and away she went."
A customer at the gas station in suburban Dayton tried to give police a heads-up about Coleman's situation, but a mix-up involving the license plate number had them thinking the van was stolen.
As officers went looking for her, Coleman headed for the hospital, naked below the waist and with the baby boy in her arm. His umbilical cord was still attached.
"I kept pulling over, making sure (the baby) was all right, breathing," she said.
Meanwhile, police had straightened out the license plate issue. But another caller mistakenly reported someone trying to throw a baby from a van.
Coleman said she noticed several cruisers following her before one cut her off. With guns drawn, officers ordered her out of the van with her hands up.
"I opened the door and said, 'I just had a baby' and just let them see everything," she said.
Officers sent Coleman on and let the hospital know she was coming.
Coleman was discharged Wednesday. Her 6-pound, 8-ounce son, Richard Lee Coleman Jr., remained in intensive care
[Edited by kath] |
| March 31st, 2005 04:55 PM |
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| Riffhard |
kath that was a very well written post. I find it hard to argue with anything that you have stated. However,this case is a little differnt than most. Micheal Shiavo seems completely indifferent to the emotional ties that bind duaghter and parent,or sibling to sibling. If,as Micheal claims,that Terri is in a "permanent vegatative state" then why not allow the parents to have another neurologist look at Terri? If she can't feel anything than what harm would it do? It just seems to me that he could have tried to handle this situation with the parents as opposed to continually going against them. He has behaved like a cruel bastard with regards to Terri's parents and siblings.
He just seemed to say,"Fuck you guys I'm her husband and I call the shots!" Rather shitty of him if you ask me. As much as it may ranckle some people on this board,Terri was a devout Catholic. So are her parents,brother,and sister. It's inconsistant with their faith to end a viable life. Hence the broohaha over this case. Why would he not include them in any of his descisions? Afterall he had a common law wife with two children! If that's not a conflict of interests than I don't know what is?
This whole goddamned affair is not Jeb Bush's fault. It's not the fault of President Bush's fault,or congresses. It is solely the fault of Micheal Shiavo for completely ignoring anyone's feelings but his own.
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 04:56 PM |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
I'll send my entire Stones boot collection to anyone who can give a reasonable insight or explanation as to why Riffhard's question about PETA's response to the hypothetical starvation of a lab rat or monkey -- persistent vegitative state or not -- has anything to do with Schiavo's situation.
The whole kit and kaboodle, the whole ball of wax, the whole nine yards, Fed Ex'ed to your doorstep. Just help me link those two. When he starts talking this high level filosofy stuff, why my brain just can't keep up with him.
Well, I have a clue - he also believes that "George W. Bush says what he means and means what he says."
I'm not claiming any rights to your Stones collection for that, because it's not a DIRECT link between those bastards at PETA and Terri Schiavo. It just leaves the door open for ANYTHING.
"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." George W. Bush |
| March 31st, 2005 05:08 PM |
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| kath |
lots of neurologists looked at terri schiavo. this case went on for 15 years. we got pulled in to it for the last month or so. a TON of people have assessed her condition over the years. |
| March 31st, 2005 05:11 PM |
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| FPM C10 |
>This whole goddamned affair is not Jeb Bush's fault.
No one said it was - just that it was completely wrong for him to get involved in the manner he did.
>It's not the fault of President Bush's fault,or congresses.
And if it was wrong for Jeb, it's WAY wrong for his big brother. Doesn't anybody know which end is UP anymore?
>It is solely the fault of Micheal Shiavo for completely ignoring anyone's feelings but his own.
Why is it so hard to believe that Terri DIDN'T want to be kept artificially alive for 15 freaking years? NOBODY wants that!!! For cryin' out loud!
The one good thing about this whole sordid mess is that EVERYONE in the country has now said to someone, "Don't EVER let THAT happen to ME."
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| March 31st, 2005 05:13 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
I'll send my entire Stones boot collection to anyone who can give a reasonable insight or explanation as to why Riffhard's question about PETA's response to the hypothetical starvation of a lab rat or monkey -- persistent vegitative state or not -- has anything to do with Schiavo's situation.
The whole kit and kaboodle, the whole ball of wax, the whole nine yards, Fed Ex'ed to your doorstep. Just help me link those two. When he starts talking this high level filosofy stuff, why my brain just can't keep up with him.
Moonie,my good man,you seem to ignore the sheer hypocricy of groups like PETA. My point is simple. Groups like PETA claim to act in the best interests of helpless animals. Good for them. I wish no crulety against animals either. However,when it comes to the life of an innocent human all groups who raise their voices in support of life are labeled radical Christian freaks,bible thumpers,backwater rednecks,and such.
I did not claim that the Shiavo case was in any way tied to PETA's ridiculous agenda. I only pointed out that some people seem to have a very warped sense of priority. No need to be a smartass about it though moonie. The question was very openended. How would PETA respond if we were talking about the life of a fucking spotted owl as opposed to a human?! Simple enough for you? God knows that they would want the president,congress,and the judiciary involved on the subject of the North Western Spotted fucking Owl! I am simply pointing out the hypocricy of these groups. Afterall aren't humans animals too?
I will happily accept your entire boot collection. Should I PM you my mailing address? LOL!
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 05:15 PM |
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| LadyJane |
Kath..I agree completely with your post. AMEN. BRAVO.
Riffy...HOW can you pass judgement on this man so vehemently without knowing him personally?? There is so much that is just speculation. We will NEVER know what occurred as we WEREN'T there nor is it any of our business.
Maybe the guy is a shit...Maybe the Parents are wacky.
Michael Schiavo, IMO, had nothing to gain by Terri's passing. Isn't it POSSIBLE that he stood his ground knowing that Terri would find her own Parents to be out of touch with reality???
We'll never know what happened in that Hospice Room. Never. So let us all bow our heads and say a little prayer for this young woman who fought a valiant fight.
LJ.
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| March 31st, 2005 05:34 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Moonie,my good man,you seem to ignore the sheer hypocricy of groups like PETA. My point is simple. Groups like PETA claim to act in the best interests of helpless animals. Good for them. I wish no crulety against animals either. However,when it comes to the life of an innocent human all groups who raise their voices in support of life are labeled radical Christian freaks,bible thumpers,backwater rednecks,and such.
I did not claim that the Shiavo case was in any way tied to PETA's ridiculous agenda. I only pointed out that some people seem to have a very warped sense of priority. No need to be a smartass about it though moonie. The question was very openended. How would PETA respond if we were talking about the life of a fucking spotted owl as opposed to a human?! Simple enough for you? God knows that they would want the president,congress,and the judiciary involved on the subject of the North Western Spotted fucking Owl! I am simply pointing out the hypocricy of these groups. Afterall aren't humans animals too?
I will happily accept your entire boot collection. Should I PM you my mailing address? LOL!
Read my lips over the internet: READ THE FLIPPIN' COURT OPINIONS.
Meanwhile, I'll consider your PETA nexus in light of this spotted owl development. If the U.N. was involved, I'll need that info as well. Don't send your mail addy just yet.... |
| March 31st, 2005 05:51 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
LadyJane wrote:
Riffy...HOW can you pass judgement on this man so vehemently without knowing him personally?? There is so much that is just speculation. We will NEVER know what occurred as we WEREN'T there nor is it any of our business.
Maybe the guy is a shit...Maybe the Parents are wacky.
Michael Schiavo, IMO, had nothing to gain by Terri's passing. Isn't it POSSIBLE that he stood his ground knowing that Terri would find her own Parents to be out of touch with reality???
We'll never know what happened in that Hospice Room. Never. So let us all bow our heads and say a little prayer for this young woman who fought a valiant fight.
LJ.
For fifteen years Micheal Shiavo has completely ignored any and all wishes of the parents of Terri. He has since moved on with his life and had two children with another woman. All I'm saying is that as a parent I would be beyond livid with his seeming total disregard for Terri's parents and siblings feelings. He could have avoided this by simply allowing the Schindler's own doctors to examine Terri. He could have done that and retained custody of Terri. This case has been argued for fifteen years in courts and it has turned unbeleivably bitter. It just seems to me that he is hell bent on twisting the knife. It is,at the end of the day,a very personal family matter,but the Schindlers made no bones about the fact that they were going to do everything in their power to keep Terri alive. That means getting the media,politicians,and the Jesse Jackson types involved. At some point Micheal could have easily kept this whole sorid affair from becoming the media circus that it has become. He could have worked with the Schindlers and he could have been at least the slightest bit understanding of their feelings. He decided to speak only through his lawyer for the last ten years,and here we are.
Riffhard
[Edited by Riffhard] |
| March 31st, 2005 06:16 PM |
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| Angiegirl |
So, what about the Pope then eh? |
| March 31st, 2005 06:17 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Read my lips over the internet: READ THE FLIPPIN' COURT OPINIONS.
Meanwhile, I'll consider your PETA nexus in light of this spotted owl development. If the U.N. was involved, I'll need that info as well. Don't send your mail addy just yet....
Read my lips over the internet; THEIR WAS NO LIVING WILL! HER WISHES WERE KNOWN TO NO ONE. MICHEAL ONLY STATED TERRI'S WISHES SEVEN YEARS AFTER SHE FELL ILL.
Why are you and FPM trying to turn this into a political argument? It has crossed party lines guys! I have stated that I wish that the goverment never would have gotten involved. You guys seem so bitter about it. I don't get it. My only thoughts on the subject are concerning the parents complete lack of rights. The letter of the law has been obeyed,but somehow I can't help but think that the spirit of the law has been shit on. This man has shown no pity towards the parents and siblings of Terri. That is my sole complaint here. I am just blown away by the sheer callousness of Micheal Shiavo. I even believe that Terri most likely would have rather been dead than stuck in limbo for all these years(God knows that I would),but that could have been resolved had Micheal and the family kept the lines of communication open. The Schindler family have said that they tried for years to get Micheal to see it from their point of view only to be told to address all future comunications through his lawyer.
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 06:33 PM |
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| Angiegirl |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Why are you and FPM trying to turn this into a political argument?
It has been on the news over here too. Mainly voicing disbelief about the political involvement of certain people. I looked at it with disbelief also.
Concerning her family and who was right or had more rights, I simply don't know, these things are really though. Why didn't her husband leave her in the care of her family? Why didn't her family want to hear about her alleged wishes? What state was she really in? Science still doesn't quite know enough to decide, which is also a problem I guess. Tough, tough stuff, life and death.
We might have legal euthanasia here in Holland as one of the few countries, but don't think things are any easier settled here, you have to meet enormous criteria and stuff. It just wouldn't have been such a fanatic public circus with our prime-minister/cabinet trying to change laws for an individual. What about other individuals in crucial states of dispear or whatever? Is he arranging something for them too? So it's really the disgraceful publicity and politics about this case that make me sick personally.
Like I said, the dilemma itself is too tough to judge, and I only know the basic situation from the media, so who am I to judge anyone. I am pro-choice (abortion and euthanasia especially) as a lot or most Dutch are, but in the case of euthanasia (active and passive forms) only under constricted circumstances, like termanilly ill people who expressed their will and had it put down on paper with doctors' statements and legal persons (like the law forces us to). Sigh, it must be hard for her family.
I also wonder why they just couldn't give her a shot instead of this cruel 2-week inhuman deal? Why is that anyway? That creeps me out, letting someone starve like that. Big and loud words about rights to live and rights to die from both sides, but than let her die like that? Or maybe it's just not as inhumane as it appears to me? Oh, whatever...  |
| March 31st, 2005 07:04 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Read my lips over the internet; THEIR WAS NO LIVING WILL! HER WISHES WERE KNOWN TO NO ONE. MICHEAL ONLY STATED TERRI'S WISHES SEVEN YEARS AFTER SHE FELL ILL.
READ MY LIPS OVER THE INTERNET: READ. THE. COURT. OPINIONS.
quote:
Why are you and FPM trying to turn this into a political argument? It has crossed party lines guys!
Not me, man. Other than the U.N. jibe that I threw at you as an inside joke between us, I never went political.
Political arguments aren't commensurate with party lines, BTW. At least in theory they aren't. Its only through some mind boggling, universe-defying coincidence that the US public, independent thinkers that they all are, can decide every single issue by looking at whether the Rs or the Ds are pro or con.
quote:
I have stated that I wish that the goverment never would have gotten involved. You guys seem so bitter about it. I don't get it. My only thoughts on the subject are concerning the parents complete lack of rights. The letter of the law has been obeyed,but somehow I can't help but think that the spirit of the law has been shit on. This man has shown no pity towards the parents and siblings of Terri. That is my sole complaint here. I am just blown away by the sheer callousness of Micheal Shiavo. I even believe that Terri most likely would have rather been dead than stuck in limbo for all these years(God knows that I would),but that could have been resolved had Micheal and the family kept the lines of communication open. The Schindler family have said that they tried for years to get Micheal to see it from their point of view only to be told to address all future comunications through his lawyer.
I have no idea on the family dynamic. I don't know where you got the inside scoop.
I'm not kidding about those Opinions. If you read them, you'll see you were flat out wrong on several things you stated. You also might feel better about the law on this issue, and maybe how the parents were treated under it. I couldn't think of a better way to handle the situation, Bush's epiphany about the decades old presumption in favor of life notwithstanding.
The states could make a rule that life support is never removed unless a living will calls for it. That appears to be the argument of the "pro" Terri supporters. Maybe its what you want. Doesn't sound workable to me - even after this national episode, most people who become chronically ill will do so without a living will, and these tough decisions will have to be made every day, just like they have been for decades now. I doubt any state legislature would pass it anyway. I suppose the feds could get involved, but NO ONE wants that do they? |
| March 31st, 2005 08:06 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Well Moonie I read the link,and your right about one thing. I did not know much of the timeline or the reasons for the family split. I am just so torn by this whole mess. I find myself relating to the Schindler family more so than Micheal Shiavo because I'm a parent myself. I can only imagine the emotional torment that this kind of situation would cause me as a parent. No parent wants to let go of their child if there is any hope whatsoever of getting her/him back. I just think that all parties involved should have worked with each other to avoid this kind of crap. Also,it is true that many neurologists have stated that Terri could have been helped to a greater extant than she was. We will have to wait for the autopsy I guess. If it turns out that her cerebral cortex was liquified,as some have said,than the right call was made,but,God forbid,she felt the agony of being dehydrated and starved to death. Well,let's just say that I would hate to be on Micheal's side of the argument.
At the end of the day I feel that Micheal Shiavo could have,and should have handled this much better than he did. He could have allowed the Schindlers a final opportunity to examine Terri under the stipulation that the doctor's findings were the final word on the case. He still could have kept his spousal rights with regards to Terri's custody. He,instead,chose to only speak through his atty to the Schindler family. He made himself the villian in this case,and your link has got me thinking that I may have misjudged his motives. However,I still feel that the family should have been granted some form of leagal recourse considering he had all but remarried years ago. Also,his flat out refusal to allow a family burial seems rather callous of him.
Thanks for the link though. It was eye opening for sure.
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 08:08 PM |
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| kath |
well, we'll see what happens when they get hounded for books and movie rights. that will be the real test of character for all of them..... |
| March 31st, 2005 08:38 PM |
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| LadyJane |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
For fifteen years Micheal Shiavo has completely ignored any and all wishes of the parents of Terri. He has since moved on with his life and had two children with another woman. All I'm saying is that as a parent I would be beyond livid with his seeming total disregard for Terri's parents and siblings feelings. He could have avoided this by simply allowing the Schindler's own doctors to examine Terri. He could have done that and retained custody of Terri. This case has been argued for fifteen years in courts and it has turned unbeleivably bitter. It just seems to me that he is hell bent on twisting the knife. It is,at the end of the day,a very personal family matter,but the Schindlers made no bones about the fact that they were going to do everything in their power to keep Terri alive. That means getting the media,politicians,and the Jesse Jackson types involved. At some point Micheal could have easily kept this whole sorid affair from becoming the media circus that it has become. He could have worked with the Schindlers and he could have been at least the slightest bit understanding of their feelings. He decided to speak only through his lawyer for the last ten years,and here we are.
Riffhard
[Edited by Riffhard]
And how do YOU know that he didn't try to work with the Schindler's?
And how do YOU know that maybe, just maybe, he spoke through his laywer because HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE PART OF A MEDIA CIRCUS??
Riffy...my point is this...WHAT IF??? I respect your opinion but everything you say in the above post is speculation on your part.
We don't know the truth and never will.
I have my own suspicions. Considering the right wing zealots that the Schindler's have aligned themselves with, I believe that even IF there had been a Living Will, they wouldn't have accepted it.
I just don't see Michael Schiavo as a villian and fear that one of the zealots will seek "God's revenge" on him. Randall Terry and his band of thugs hit my city years ago on the anti-abortion crusade. The result...a prominent physician gunned down inside his own kitchen "in Jesus Name". Disgusting.
I'm done arguing. My very best wishes are extended to the Shindler family and the Schiavo family.
LJ.
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| March 31st, 2005 08:54 PM |
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| Riffhard |
I hear ya LJ! I am Shiavo'd out truth to tell. I have been looking at the case through the eyes of a parent. So naturally my instincts tell me that her parents have been overlooked by the courts,but you have a very good point,as does moonie. The truth is always the first thing to get lost in this kind of situation.
Meanwhile back at the Vatican. The Pope has been given Last Rites.
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 08:56 PM |
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| time is on my side |
quote:
her husband stayed close for a long time, won a 750k settlement in a malpractice suit and all of it went for her care. after many years, he found someone. good for him. but he stuck by her, and he fought for what he thought and/or knew that terri
Great post however some of this is factually incorrect. All of the 750K settlement did not go to the care of Terri Schiavo. It was split between medical care and Terri Schiavo's (Michael's) legal expenses. The fund ran out about three years. The legal expenses according to some reports was as high as $400,000. Also, Michael Schiavo did not wait many years to find someone. He moved in with his current girlfriend in 1994 about a year after receiving the settlement. Also, you failed to mention the $300,000 that was rewarded to Michael Schiavo. As far as I know, this was all spent on his own personal expenses.
One thing is geting lost in all this political posturing. The facts. Personally, as an advocate of right to die, I'm sure Terri wouldn't want to be kept alive artifically. How do I know this??? Because through clear and convincing evidence, she said so.
This is directly from the court order written by Judge George Greer. I find Judge Greer's decision to be a well reasoned and clear examination of the facts. "During the period of time following the incident of February 25, 1990 the parties worked together in an attempt to provide the best care possible for Teri Schiavo. On February 14, 1993, this amicable relationship between the parties was severed. While the testimony differs on what may or may not have been promised to whom and by whom, it is clear to this court that such severance was predicated upon money and the fact that Mr Schiavo was unwilling to equally divide his loss of consortium award with Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. The parties have literally not spoken since that date. Regrettably, money overshadows this entire case and creates potential of conflict of interest for both sides. The Guardian Ad Litem noted that Mr. Schiavo's conflict of interest was that if Terri Schiavo died while he is still her husband, he would inherit her estate. The record before this court discloses that should Mr. and Mrs. Schindler prevail, their stated hope is that Mr Schiavo would divorce their daughter, get on with his life, they would be guardians of Terri Schiavo and become her heirs at law. They have even encouraged him to "get on with his life". Therefore, neither side is exempt from finger pointing as to possible conflicts of interest in this case."
The above court order was written by Judge Greer in 2000. It's interesting to note that Mr. Schiavo and the Schindlers were no longer on speaking terms in 1993 a full 5 years before Mr. Schiavo first filed a court motion to remove the feeding tube (the humane death). So obviously there were other issues already in play besides a right to die issue. The main one being a dispute over MONEY.
In the same court order, Judge Greer examines Terri Schiavo wishes in detail. In effect, the court order was an examination of what Ms. Schiavo would have wanted. From the medical evidence, it was clear Teri Schiavo was in a presistent vegetative state and that she had no hope of ever regaining conscoiusness & therefore capacity. He stated the overwhelming credible evidence is that Terri Schiavo has been totally unresponsive since lapsing in a coma almost ten years ago (he's writing this in 2000), that her movements are reflexive and predicated on brain stem activity alone, that she suffers from severe structual brain damage. He goes on but the general idea is that she was a vegetable and had no hope of recovery.
The case then basically turned on what Terri Schiavo would have wanted. Would she want to live like this or would her wish be that she be allowed to die?? Was there any oral testimony (evidence) where she gave her wishes??? Judge Greer states the following "The court finds that Terri Shiavo did make statements which are credible and reliable to her intention given the situation at hand. Statements which Terri Schiavo made which support the relief include statements to him (Michael Schiavo) prompted by her grandmother being in intensive care that if she was ever a burden she would not want to live like that. Additionally, statements made to Michael Schiavo which were prompted by something on television regarding people on life support that she would not want to live like that also reflect her intention. Also, the statements made to Scott Schiavo (Michael's brother) at the funeral luncheon for his grandmother that if I ever go like that just let me go. Don't leave me there. I don't want to be kept on a machine and to Joan Schiavo (Michael's sister in law) following a television movie in which a man following an accident was in a coma to the effect that she wanted it stated in her will that she would want the tubes and everything taken out if that ever happened to her."
The court found these statements to be compelling and found these oral declarations reliable, credible, and rising to the level of clear and convincing evidence. It was the above quoted statements that decided the case for Michael Schiavo. Agree or disagree, everyone has a right to their own opinion. Mine is that the right decision was made by Judge Greer.
Finally, the real tragedy in this case, besides the loss of a young life, is that we even know about this case. It's a shame cases like this go to court. It should have been a private matter worked out by the family. That the people Terri Schiavo loved most in life have been at each other's throats since 1993 (12 years) is a legacy I'm sure she would be ashamed of.
[Edited by time is on my side] |
| March 31st, 2005 09:01 PM |
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| prism |
Terri's father kept up the fight to keep her body alive because the religious right were pouring money into his bank account. Her husband was told very early on by many doctors that she would not recover yet he refused to pull the tube. For years he was in denial and even became a nurse so he could take care of her. Nineteen brain surgeons studied her case and proclaimed her permanently unaware. Hopefully the autopsy will confirm it. Hopefully young girls will read about it and think twice before becoming bulemic. Karen Carpenter died of a heart attack caused by her eating disorder. Imagine if she'd become a vegetative pawn of the religious right |
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| HellsRollingThunder |
I agree with Riffhard. It is very important to make out a will,
especially a living will. I hope the autopsy reveals more information. Michael Schiavo strongly felt his wife was never going to recover? I think they should have left the feeding tube in
her, took care of her and let her die without any starvation, or
lack of meds. I never did get it straight if she would have actually
recovered or not. Both of my parents were like that for a long time
and I did not do that because I could not do it. She should have
been fed, given meds and made comfortable and whatever else
they needed to do and let her go on her own.
I would not be surprised at anything her husband did. He had a
girlfriend and children. What would have happened if he had
divorced her? |
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| FPM C10 |
Riffhard's emotional reaction, based largely on hearsay and outright disinformation, and his insistence on clinging to it even after that disinformation was pointed out to him, is a perfect example of why I said what I said right from the start of this thread: It's none of our business, and none of us should really even HAVE an opinion on this. We shouldn't know the exact timeline of Michael Schiavo's life - so why DO we? We're all having our chains yanked and I'm sick of it. You can't trust ANY news source, least of all Fox News, yet President Bush was re-elected by people who get their "news" there exclusively, and who, like Riffhard, believe what they're supposed to believe and don't ask questions unless it's about Bill Clinton's sex life.
But I DO agree with my colleague from the other side of the aisle on one thing: everyone should have a living will. So as a public service I am including a copy of mine, which everyone is free to cut and paste their own name into. Do it now and thank me later!
Subject: Living Will
I, Fleabit Peanut Monkey, being of sound mind and body, do not wish to be kept alive indefinitely by artificial means.
Under no circumstances should my fate be put in the hands of peckerwood politicians who couldn't pass ninth-grade biology if their lives depended on it. If a reasonable amount of time passes and I fail to sit up and ask for a cold beer and a smoke, it should be presumed that I won't ever get better.
When such a determination is reached, I hereby instruct my spouse, children, and/or attending physicians to pull the plug, reel in the tubes and call it a day. If they won't do it, go out on the street and get some random passerby.
Under no circumstances shall the members of the Legislature enact a special law to keep me on life-support machinery. I don't care how many fundamentalist votes they're trying to scrounge for their run for the presidency; they should play politics with someone else's life and leave me alone to die in peace. It is my wish that these boneheads mind their own damn business, and pay attention instead to the health, education and future of the millions of Americans who aren't in a permanent coma. It just goes to show you how sick you have to be in this country to get Congress to pay attention to your health care.
I couldn't care less if a hundred thousand religious zealots send e-mails to legislators in which they pretend to care about me or demonstrate outside my hospital with their bleeding Jesuses and sandwiches with Mary's face on them. I don't know these people, and I certainly haven't authorized them to preach and crusade on my behalf.
And if any of my family goes against my wishes and tries to turn my case into a political cause, I hereby promise to come back from the grave and make his or her existence a living hell.
April 1, 2005
______________________________________
Signature
_______________________________________
Witness
[Edited by FPM C10] |
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| glencar |
What a dick you've become. |
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| glencar |
A self-righteous one, to boot! |
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| FPM C10 |
I didn't BECOME one. I've always been one.
Do you guys think you have a corner on the market? |
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| glencar |
LOL |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
Under no circumstances should my fate be put in the hands of peckerwood politicians who couldn't pass ninth-grade biology if their lives depended on it. If a reasonable amount of time passes and I fail to sit up and ask for a cold beer and a smoke, it should be presumed that I won't ever get better.
Under no circumstances shall the members of the Legislature enact a special law to keep me on life-support machinery. I don't care how many fundamentalist votes they're trying to scrounge for their run for the presidency; they should play politics with someone else's life and leave me alone to die in peace. It is my wish that these boneheads mind their own damn business, and pay attention instead to the health, education and future of the millions of Americans who aren't in a permanent coma. It just goes to show you how sick you have to be in this country to get Congress to pay attention to your health care.
I couldn't care less if a hundred thousand religious zealots send e-mails to legislators in which they pretend to care about me or demonstrate outside my hospital with their bleeding Jesuses and sandwiches with Mary's face on them. I don't know these people, and I certainly haven't authorized them to preach and crusade on my behalf.
And if any of my family goes against my wishes and tries to turn my case into a political cause, I hereby promise to come back from the grave and make his or her existence a living hell.
Wow! Talk about a post. Sounds like you might have learned the art of preaching from Bob Jones University.
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| glencar |
I would probably not want extraordinary means used to extend life but please don't leave me thirsty & hungry for two weeks just to kill me. BTW FPM seems to think this is a left v. right issue. Wrong as ever. There are many conservatives who wanted her starved & there were many lefties who wanted her fed. This wasn't quite as political as Dickwad Peter Jennings would have wanted. |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Wow! Talk about a post. Sounds like you might have learned the art of preaching from Bob Jones University.
Oh, I cut & pasted that living will thing. Someone emailed it to me a little while ago. I DO agree with every word of it, though (there was a line in it that said "and tell the Pope to mind his own business too" but I deleted that out of a modicum of respect for the failing pontiff). I actually really don't get the negative reactions to my views on this, especially the disgust I caused The Worst yesterday. I'm saying if it was ME ... oh hell, I've been pretty straightforward about what I'm saying, I think.
YOUR reaction puzzles me the most, I think. Can you explain how my views are "evil", and how the Bush brothers were NOT trying to use this poor woman for purely political purposes? |
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