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| Starbuck |
riffy...i have some books for you if you're interested.
oh and jostorm...they just made a movie about the christmas peace in 1914. its a french film if memory serves, "joyeux noel". i haven't seen it yet...still in theatres, but not in the midwest where i live.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424205/
incidentally, as of november the christmas peace is now history. the last known survivor to have witnessed and partook in the christmas peace died here last november. check it out:
http://www.greatwar.nl/xmas/anderson.html |
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| Maxlugar |
[quote]pdog wrote:
Maxy I love you like a brother... Most of the red area is places where very few if any people live...
Republican rocks, lakes, trees and shit is fine with me. Population wise this shit is pretty much dead even. And 90% of dems and Repubs are moderates... They're the political equivilent of bi-sexuals, they'll go either way.
Who they fooling?
There is one thing, I'm 100% positive of: Someday, this war is gonna end...
Oh I agree the red areas are the less populated for sure. Funny how people in the sticks tend to vote republican and the people in the big city vote dem. More people with their hands out vs the people who live out on their own. Kind of puts to bed the party of the rich theme, I think.
I glad when they are added up they constitute more electoral votes.
I do love you like a brother too Pdog!
This is my last post here by the way. It is not wise I do this anymore.
I'll discuss politics at my politcs board only.
Good-bye every one!
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
pdog wrote:
There is one thing, I'm 100% positive of: Someday, this war is gonna end...
The war will but the interest payments on the money borrowed to fight it won't. |
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| pdog |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
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| pdog |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
The war will but the interest payments on the money borrowed to fight it won't.
Some call me a liberal, others call me a fascist... I'm an American... This I know... America was built on genocide, slavery and a bunch of rich white dudes who didn't want to pay taxes...
I just want cheap gas before the ice caps all melt! |
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| FPM C10 |
Riffy, in the first place, I'm sorry that every time I make sense you take it as a personal affront. If you read back over our initial posts, you stated that you would be happy if your picture of military phallic symbols pissed me off, and then gave me the finger (via Johnny Cash, who I don't think would subscribe to many of your ideas). My post attacked your footer photo, NOT you.
So, again, to make things as clear as possible - the fact that I win arguments on the merits of the thoughts contained within the actual posts, and not by erecting strawmen to yell at, does not mean I think I'm better than everyone, or better than you in particular, or anything of the sort. I DO believe that people who follow the teachings of Christ (as opposed to "Christians") are better than people who deal in death, no matter which side of the argument they are on. |
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| Starbuck |
quote:
So, again, to make things as clear as possible - the fact that I win arguments on the merits of the thoughts contained within the actual posts, and not by erecting strawmen to yell at, does not mean I think I'm better than everyone, or better than you in particular, or anything of the sort.
yes, but flea, its quotes like this that do make you seem arrogant to those you are arguing against. in your mind, you've won. but your opponents may not agree.
pdog, you have GOT to share your speech bubble technology with me. no wait...i don't get enough done already.... |
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| pdog |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
OK. Stop. Hold it. Take a deep breath. Press the pause button.
Rolling Stones & Rolling Slots Rule.
Now back to your regular programming. |
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| Riffhard |
Bucky I hear where you're coming from. The statement about Palistinians being from Jordon is just based on the fact that the vast majority of Palestinians are historically from Jordanian(being the banks of the Jordon River) descent. Here's a link that is rather tedious,and lengthy,but it does verify my point. http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ea...name_origin.phpHowever,your souix comparison is apropos. True enough not all Palistinians are Jordanian. It is also true though that no Arab nations will offer them refuge.
As for Israel keeping them down. Historically I would absolutly agree with you,but since the concessions have been offered the intifada has only increased. Doesn't sound like Israel has much of an incentive to offer them much more to me. Remember that since the wall has gone up terror has dropped dramatically.
I would love to see the muslim populations of the Middle East condem the actions of the radicals no matter where they from. Be they Palestinian,Saudi Arabian,Iranian,or Asian. But considering that 70% of the Middle East is under the age of forty,and many of these attended madrases that brainwash the students into becoming mindnumbed terrorists I am doubtful as to the result being a happy one. You can not negotiate with someone that welcomes death in order to achieve martrydom.
To mind this not about liberal vs conservative. Or Republican vs Democrat. Rather it's about sanity vs insanity.
Riffy
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| Riffhard |
quote:
pdog wrote:
This tree voted for Nader!!!
[Edited by pdog]
A-list!!
Riffy |
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| lotsajizz |
many Palestinians are Christians, not Muslim
just like not all (or even most) Muslims are Arabs...something too forgotten |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
[
This is my last post here by the way. It is not wise I do this anymore.
I'll discuss politics at my politcs board only.
Good-bye every one!
What?! For real Macky? You know that I will only get into a political discussion on one thread at a time. I would not pollute this board with political clap trap. This thread just kinda got steered in that direction(with no small help from myself!),but I certainly would not like to see the board ruined by political bickering. One thread though is not too bad I think. I like to discuss things that interest me with people that interest me.
Maxlugar you are an iconic figure here at RO,and I would hate to see you bag out. As you well know I'm locked out of The Couch at work. So please reconsider. I need the backup!
Riffy |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
many Palestinians are Christians, not Muslim
just like not all (or even most) Muslims are Arabs...something too forgotten
True enough,but it could also be said that not all Muslims are terrorists,but all terrorists are Muslim. At least since the IRA stopped killing people anyway.
Riffy
Riffy |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
riffy...i have some books for you if you're interested.
oh and jostorm...they just made a movie about the christmas peace in 1914. its a french film if memory serves, "joyeux noel". i haven't seen it yet...still in theatres, but not in the midwest where i live.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424205/
incidentally, as of november the christmas peace is now history. the last known survivor to have witnessed and partook in the christmas peace died here last november. check it out:
http://www.greatwar.nl/xmas/anderson.html
Sure Bucky! Name the books I'm a voracious reader,and I'm sure I'd enjoy them.
The Christmas Truce is such a cool story. That the Germans would start singing "Heilige Nacht"(Silent Night),only to be met with the chorus being sung over the trenches by the Brits. Very cool!
Riffy |
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| Starbuck |
email me your addy
[email protected]
i may even bribe you with some of my mother's chocolate chip cookies if you will contribute to either the franken for senate 08 campaign or the obama for president 2012 campaign.
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| pdog |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Gawtdamned that shit's funny! I'm not kidding I got tears streaming down my face from laughing so hard!!!
Shit son! You gotta get yer ass back to NYC soon! Maxypalooza '06 perhaps? You in? Bucky,how 'bout you?
Fishin',beer,and Stones! Good times.
Bucky I'll jet you my addy soon TIA! But Franken? Please tell me that you're joking? LOL!
Riffy |
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| Starbuck |
our best chance to defeat the heathen turncoat coleman, who only won the seat because his beloved opponent was killed in a plane crash:
god bless america!
that is all!
[Edited by Common Sense]
[Edited by Starbuck] |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
our best chance to defeat the heathen turncoat coleman, who only won the seat because his beloved opponent was killed in a plane crash:
god bless america!
that is all!
[Edited by Common Sense]
[Edited by Starbuck]
It burns! It burns!!!!! Your mother sucks cocks in hell!!!!!
Riffy |
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| Joey |
" There is one thing, I'm 100% positive of: Someday, this war is gonna end... "
Frig Yeah it is going to end ..... ALL Wars must end ( see : Saigon , South Vietnam [ now called Ho Chi Minh City , Vietnam ] , circa April 30th , 1975 .
" This is my last post here by the way. It is not wise I do this anymore. "
Wait !!!!! .... You can't leave ....... all the plants will die .
....and then , Depression set in .
**** CUE BERNSTEIN MUSIC ****
Joey " Bill " Murray ! ®
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| Starbuck |
quote:
" This is my last post here by the way. It is not wise I do this anymore. "
Wait !!!!! .... You can't leave ....... all the plants will die .
....and then , Depression set in .
**** CUE BERNSTEIN MUSIC ****
Joey " Bill " Murray ! ®
holy shit! joey, this is the first funny thing you've said in about a year and a half! what's in the punch today?
people who don't take franken seriously are either republicans or haven't listened to him speak. he is very eloquent and passionate about his beliefs. rest assured, he will throw his hat in the ring...i only wish he were doing it now instead of against coleman, as he would be a shoe in in 06. |
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| SheRat |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
True enough,but it could also be said that not all Muslims are terrorists,but all terrorists are Muslim. At least since the IRA stopped killing people anyway.
Riffy
Riffy
Let's not be naive here. First, it's HAS NOT JUST BEEN THE IRA KILLING PEOPLE. The conflict has dies down because the Republic is now part of the EU, and up north people are sick of being poor--so both sides are losing converts. Thus, the Provos, the UDA/UVF yadda yadda yadda, are losing public support. Without a bunch of unemployed men to rope into a glamorous life of terrotist funded crime and drug running, they kind of lose steam. Become irrelvant.
There will always be middle class radicals. But the only way they ever make a dent is if there's enough poor people desperate enough to follow them.
Stability's biggest ally is a fat, happy middle class. Why the current regime has not learned the lessons of the French Revolution, I don't know.
The majority of human beings are weak and stupid. If they're well fed and have nice homes, they're not going to bother with blowing themselves up. Period.
And, please indulge me here, let me try to impart to you what a straw man argument is. You do it twice in your response to Joanne's post:
#1) Jostorm says: "I will have to agree to disagree with you on the productivity of armed conflict, we will never reach a level of understanding and true dialogue"
However, you completely misinterpret her meaning, and begin a tangent about muslim terrorist deaths: "For example,Joanna here seems to think that I am emotionally scarred! Joanna I'm not emotionally scarred at all. I am just not naive about the nature of the enemy. Nor am I wont to blame America for the tactics that they use. I could post pictures of young girls (12-15)who have been beheaded by their fathers because they had been raped and were considered unclean. Let's talk about Nick Berg shall we? His head was sawed off with a kitchen knife while his captors shouted "Allah Akkbar!" These bastards can not be reasoned with at all! This "reach a level of understanding and true dialogue" talk sounds all nice and stuff,but it naive in the extreme."
JoStorm was not saying she despaired of reaching "understanding and dialogue" with THEM, but WITH YOU. Are you saying THAT is naive in the extreme? Why would you want to say that about yourself?
You're accusing her of trying to "reason with" terrorists, when she has said nothing of the kind.
#2: JoStorm says:
" All I can say is that I truly believe that these terrorists are untouchable, because they don't "tick" like we do. I mean, would you or I detonnate a bomb near the invading soldiers in a street market, if we knew that 50 of our own kiddies were hanging around for candy?? No, we wouldn't. So, these are the type of psychoes we are dealing with...."
You say:
"Believe it or not there is such a thing as good vs evil. If you are trying to equivicate the morality of these jihadist then you have already lost the argument in my mind."
Can't you see that she is AGREEING WITH YOU that they are psychotic and cannot be reasoned with? There's no equivocation. You're inventing that. It's not there.
The thing is, Riff, politics, apart from actually being the study of power (and thus, the study of money), is also about tactics. Mostly, people agree on the problem: there are psycho killer terrorists running amok. And they're smart. People generally agree on that. at least, I've not run into anyone who doesn't. Where the disagrement comes from is WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.
A difference in opinion about what tactic will be effective IS NOT a disagreement about what the problem is. And, as fat as tactics go, JoStorm NOT ONCE said she thought that "reasoning" with terrorists would work. All she has expressed is a serious doubt that bombing them will.
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| SheRat |
quote:
" This is my last post here by the way. It is not wise I do this anymore. "
Wait !!!!! .... You can't leave ....... all the plants will die .
....and then , Depression set in .
**** CUE BERNSTEIN MUSIC ****
Joey " Bill " Murray ! ®
BILLY MURRAY!!!! SWOON!!
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| jostorm |
Riffy, Sweetiepie, you misunderstood my words....The "reaching a level of understanding and true dialogue" referred to YOU and ME. I don't want to reason with those extremist psychoes!!!! You are preaching to the converted (me), of course they are total shites, and as to the way women are treated within muslim societies: what can I say? I'm just glad I was born in the West and within a non-Muslim context. In my book islamic societies are stuck in the middle ages, problem is that because it is a "religion", it seldom gets attacked openly, blame it on the extreme political correctness governing our times. I'm not saying that any other religion is "better", but at least other religions tend to let us choose whether we want to believe or not,and otherwise we have all sorts of freedoms to go about our daily lives without much restriction. Their state is governed in every daily detail by religion, so in a way it is more an "ideology" than a religion, like communism, or capitalism....
Yes, the jihad sucks. I live near the British city of Bradford, which houses the largest community of Muslims outside Pakistan. They originally came in the 60s as "guest workers", to do all the menial jobs in the mills of the then blooming English textile industry. At the rate that they have children and the Brits opt not to have large families, it will take but a few decades and Muslims may outnumber original English ethnic groups. There are growing numbers of extremely unhappy and aggressive Muslim youths, you may have seen the pictures on TV of the aggressive way in which they openly held banners inciting the murder of non-muslims after the Allah cartoons were printed, you notice the British authorities treading very carefully not to incite more anger. It is only a matter of time until bombings similar to the recent London bombings get repeated. BUT: the vast majority of the British Muslims are hard-working, law-abiding, gentle people, with an intact family cohesion, you never see them shoving off their elders into old folks homes, and they keep their handycapped kids at home in the family unit. Yes, they tend to marry cousins and have a plethora of resulting genetic problems, occasionally you read about a girl being murdered by male family members to redeem "the stained family honour", and the girls get often forced into arranged marriages. But intrinsically they are decent, good people, that were as appalled at the bombings as I was. If you move into a street were you have Muslim neighbours, they will surely bring you a welcome present in form of curry, just like my mum would have baked an apple cake for the new neighbours. We cannot condemn all Muslims because of the extreme acts of a few. AND THOSE FEW are the problem. As are all the Imams inciting the hatred. And they are the ones that kill before you see them coming, and the more collateral damage occurs during the Iraq invasion, the worse the danger becomes. I'm sure they perceive it as just vengeance for their Muslim brothers and sisters suffering in Iraq, Gaza, Palestine, etc.....But they are deranged human beings.
You may have noticed that the Iraqis now wish the US and British forces would bugger off again, Yes, life under Saddam was awful, but most people think what is going on now is worseAll I'm trying to say here is that an arsenal of war toys is NOT going to help at all in solving this problem.
As to "mental scarring". I'm sorry if I overstepped the mark and insulted you with this, after all I feel pretty scarred from my own friend's death, and I'm talking 13 years later, plus it was YOU who has mentioned twice in this thread about three of your best friends dying at the WTC, I simply expect you to be scarred, I don't mean to be patronising or insulting at all . They showed a documentary on TV last week that concentrated on the "jumpers", it was pretty harrowing to watch, and I can't even say that I knew anyone involved....All I'm trying to say in a very well-intentioned manner is that the ensuing hatred ain't healthy for you.
Anyway, thanks for the link, but I have chosen not to look at it, life's full of awful stuff ,bad enough when I read about it, graphic depiction would make it worse, and yes, I know about their brutality.
All I was trying to put across is that I don't think this problem can be solved by John Wayne-type armed conflict, that's all.
Starbucks: thank you, you have once again restored my belief in sensible human nature, and in the fact that America is not populated exclusively by testosterone-driven, aggressive, gun-yielding men.......
[Edited by jostorm]
[Edited by jostorm] |
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| jostorm |
Bollocks, it took me so long to type this, that I didn't see all the stuff posted in between....
Sherat: Thanks, I always wanted Patsy to simultaneously translate for me.... Your understanding of the Irish conflict seems pretty impressive, are you on my same side of the pond????Where do you live?
Starbucks: I think I'm in love with your son, I hope he doesn't grow up to break my heart.....and thanks for all that, I'll try and catch the movie.....and yes, the speechbubbles are really funny, pdog!
it's 4am, I better hit the pillow, night-night everyone
PS: Maxlugar: hope you return when we drop the politics... |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
SheRat wrote:
..Can't you see that she is AGREEING WITH YOU that they are psychotic and cannot be reasoned with? There's no equivocation. You're inventing that. It's not there...
WHY must you be so ARROGANT??? WHY??? |
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| pdog |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
WHY must you be so ARROGANT??? WHY???
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| Riffhard |
Jo we are fine. Trust me I have no anger towards you at all. The point counter points have gotten so long that I simply misunderstood your post regarding dialogue. My mistake. As for the emotional scarring. Well I would say that I am no more,and no less,scarred than most Americans who wittnessed the horrors of 9/11/01. Yes I lost three friends,but I know many people who lost brothers,sisters,fathers,mothers,or children. So while I may very well be upset about my loss it in no way reflects my attitude towards the direction in which this war on terror is carried out. In other words,to me it is not about vengence,but rather it's about rooting out the element that brought 9/11 about and all the other acts of terror in the name of Islam.
Some would argue that this only fans the flames of Islamic hatered. I dissagree with that argument on it's very premiss. Too bad you did not have a look at the link that i provided. It is not full of horrible images if that's what you feared. Rather it was a history of terror attacks that have been carried out by these animals. For example did you know that more people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined? Crazy fact.
One thing that is very true of Islamic terrorists is that they will not be dettered from their acts of barbarism with dialouge. They have shown an utter contempt of anyone who reacts with passivity. Spain is the best recent example of this sad,and deranged,fact. Machismo unfortunatly reigns supreme in the Middle East. SheRat brings up a good point about the class structure that is at the root of this terrorism,but even that misses a very real,and very non-Western truth. That is that because of their bizzare adhearence to a 12th century ideology of Sharia they have become convinced that they must "cleanse" the world of infidels. This is so out of the ordinary to most civilized people that we tend to try and find blame within our own Westernized belief systems. This won't work for they do not think along these lines at all. It's not our fault that they attack us. They attack us simply because we exist period. So says Sharia.
That brings us to Iraq. Now we could argue till we are both blue in the face about the pros,or cons of this war. In fact I'm getting a little blue right about now truth be told. But one thing that many tend to forget,or choose to ignore,is that good things are indeed happening over there. I have mentioned my cousin Brett. He is in the Special Ops forces in Al Nassaria,and Tikriet(sp?). I hear from him often and I recieve photos of him with Iraqi families,and their children that he has befreinded while he has been there. Many Iraqis do,indeed,want us to bugger off. However,not one of the Iraqis that Brett has talked to wants us to do this now. They wany us to get the Iraqi military and police forces up to speed,and then kiss them all goodbye. That is the plan by all accounts,and we are actually making better progress at that than most know.
At the end of the day Iraq was just one more Middle Eastern nation that was run by a despot that kept his own people down all the while blaming the evil jews,and America for their problems that he created. This technique is used by despots throughout the region. Deflect blame,and then call for jihad. Or,as they do it in Suadi Arabia,allow mullahs to teach and preach hatered of the West and Israel just to keep them away from their own necks. It was Churchill who said,"A passifist is someone who feeds the crocidile hoping that he will be the last to be eaten." The same holds true for rich sheiks in SA. For that matter it held true for the new socialist goverment of Spain. This is why I feel that an established self determining goverment is the best way out of this radical mindset. It is working in other pro-Western Middle Eastern nations like Jordon,Turkey, and the UAE. It will work in Iraq too should the the flegling democracy get off the ground. This is why the radicals (read-Iran and Co.) are so determind to stamp it out before it takes root.
In closing allow me to say that I hold you in high regard for your ability to have an open honest discussion about this topic without resorting to slights or cheap shots. For that I thank you,and I look forward to more discussions with you about other topics as well. Again,I'm sorry for the misunderstanding,but you know in the heat of the discussion I just jumped to the wrong conclussion about your point.
SheRat! LOL! I know what a friggin "strawman" argument is!! LOL! I was kidding because it always seems to be the rebuttal du jour for many here. That I may have erected one in my last post to Jo was simply because I misunderstood her post. I ain't stooopid! I'm an eggspurt and shit ya know! I gots me a real deal Colage decree!
Riffy |
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| pdog |
Hey Riff,
What's going on tonight down the shore? |
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