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| Soldatti |
Rick Rubin is the name, if we get another album... |
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| pdog |
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:
OK , but remastering is like child's play compared to producing, you do realise?
Wrong...False...No!
Mastering a record makes or breaks the sound, regardless of the work of the producer and musicians.
That's the fact, Jack! |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Gazza wrote:
Rick Rubin for me (although at this stage in the band's career I wouldnt be worrying about 'radio sellers' or hits..they should be above worrying about that)
But yes, Don Was and the others did a good job on ABB. Certainly no complaints from me about it. A better record than I dared hope
[Edited by Gazza]
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Yeah Man, I told you (and this is no I told you so) they could do it if they dug deep and just concentrated on themselves as a core unit. I knew you were skepticle. I knew they could do it but it wasn't going to be easy.
Now look what we got. A F#%in Rockin Stones Album that is better than anything since Tatoo You. Hell, it may have no Monster single as Tattoo You did, but hey, it is argueable that as a solid album side by side, this may be even bettter than Tatoo You as a whole!
I told you man, they could do it. IF they pulled together everything they had and cut all the shit.
Now look what a great album we have. My two fiends (one is a Stones fan, the other is not really) are simply dazzeld by all of it. After listening to it they can't believe it.
Ian |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Gazza wrote:
Ludwig's speciality field is mastering albums, no?
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Yes you are correct. I know people that worked with him and know him quite well. He charges $1,000 just to listen to your album. That is just to decide if he is going to do it or not! It is a contract he has drawn up. He charges a 1000 evaluation fee to see if he is going to master your album or not. He can say no, and still keep the grand.
Ian |
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| JuanTCB |
"The debut album by the mouthy Manc twat in your avatar would be one of them for sure"
Gazza, you fucking rule. Seriously - great taste in both music and words. |
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| IanBillen |
speedfreakjive wrote:
OK , but remastering is like child's play compared to producing, you do realise?
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In conjunction to Pdogs response. Mastering takes the most sensative of ears.
Ludwig can hear the difference in 20 bit vs. 22 bit resolution when it comes to digital word samples of the analog wave file.
Mastering an album is nowhere near the amount of work that producing an album and engineering is. Mastering an entire album can be done in a few days if pushed to the brink.
However it is crucial to an albums over all sound. Critical if you want it successful. If you took ABB and had a so-so mastering engineer do it. The album would not be cutting it. Really poor mastering of an album can ruin an album. And mastering it at home as an amatuer, with higher end consumer grade equipment can damper a great album, or even make it kinda sloppy sounding if it is real bad. If you took that same album and had a high end Mastering Engineer with all his incredibly priced gear you would get the opposite result.
He or She would even everything out and extenuatethe sound. He also plays a part in making everything sound as one cohesive unit on the album as well. There is your difference.
Mastering involves spacing songs apart as far as time in concerened as desired (standard is 5 seconds in between each track), cleaning it up, slight EQing, and balancing out volume levels.
It is a very detailed process that involves extremely expensive gear and experienced individuals with great ears.
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen]
[Edited by IanBillen] |
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| Jumacfly |
Don Was is a lazy producer for lazy musicians.
[Edited by Jumacfly] |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Jumacfly wrote:
Don Was is a lazy producer for lazy musicians.
[Edited by Jumacfly]
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Why? I see where you are coming from but look at A Bigger Bang. It sounds anything but lazy. Give me your reasoning Mr. Jamucfly.
Ian |
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| speedfreakjive |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
[quote]Jumacfly wrote:
Don Was is a lazy producer for lazy musicians.
[Edited by Jumacfly]
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Why? I see where you are coming from but look at A Bigger Bang. It sounds anything but lazy. Give me your reasoning Mr. Jamucfly.
Ian
are you telling me ONNYA is well produced:- that IS lazy production |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
[quote]Jumacfly wrote:
Don Was is a lazy producer for lazy musicians.
[Edited by Jumacfly]
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Why? I see where you are coming from but look at A Bigger Bang. It sounds anything but lazy. Give me your reasoning Mr. Jamucfly.
Ian
Hi Ain!
Bigger bang, I said it nearly 10000 times here, sounds unfinished for me, for me a producer doesn t say "yes" to all, his work is also to avoid mediocrity.
See how Rubin reworked Wandering Spirit for exmaple.
here we got no decent bass line, no killer solo and, as those 2 ingredients are for me core of the Stones dound,I m very disappointed with ABB production.
That s why I said DW did a lazy job,and that s why I rate ABB "average".
Anyway there are good songs on ABB, don t get me wrong.
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Jumacfly wrote:
Hi Ain!
Bigger bang, I said it nearly 10000 times here, sounds unfinished for me, for me a producer doesn t say "yes" to all, his work is also to avoid mediocrity.
See how Rubin reworked Wandering Spirit for exmaple.
here we got no decent bass line, no killer solo and, as those 2 ingredients are for me core of the Stones dound,I m very disappointed with ABB production.
That s why I said DW did a lazy job,and that s why I rate ABB "average".
Anyway there are good songs on ABB, don t get me wrong.
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That's cool. Nobody can make you like it if you don't. Don't you like the solo on LWTCDI, or RJ? I think maybe Jagger pushed the longer album as well here.
Do you like the production of Voodoo? How about over all on Bridges?
I wonder just how much Was says yes. Rather, I wonder if the band ever truly wanted something and if he out and out said no. Can't do it.
I know he wanted Voodoo to sound the way it did. I also know he insited Mick have lyrics already written for songs that were not even started musically yet on that album. It seems he was most influential on Voodoo. And it is a great album, to me. BTB is good. And I absolutely dig ABB. So as for me alone. I can't bitch. Also the change from Steel Wheels and Dirty Work to Voodoo was like night and day really. This is what really sold me on him. So then I listened to some of his other productions. Iggy Pop: Avenue B, Bonnie Ratt, Black Crowes: Lions. He definately has a very organic, analog, thick full trademark production style. The Black Crowes: Lions is THE BEST I EVER COULD IMAGINE The Black Crowes sounding. I love that album. And I am no Black Crowes fan at all really. Never have been. Lions sounds great! Great Album. Something about his stuff, to me, sticks to your ribs. It has a quality in the sound I can't describe that other producers, to me, lack. So However, he is versitile. Look at ABB. It doesn't sound like that at all.
Ian
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| Jumacfly |
I prefer BTB.
This project is more coherent for me.
good point about RJ solo, anyway!
cheers
Juu |
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| Break The Spell |
I agree with Rubin being a great choice. He will be working with metallica this year and possibly some of next depending on how long their album takes. After that, he'll be available and who knows, by summer 2007 the stones may have at least a few new song ideas ready to go. A Bigger Bang was a great step at getting back to just the core of the band, their raw rockin' roots without many of the backing musicians. I think Rubin could help them take this idea even further. They don't need to be concerned with radio hits at this point in their career, it seems to have a hit these days you hve to be under 30 anyway. Just do a raw, honest album of great songs that reflect where they are at this point in their life, it worked for Johnny Cash certainly. Plus he worked with Mick on his best solo album. Mick may have found him diffucult to work with, but he really got the best out of him at the time. |
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| Gazza |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
Yes you are correct. I know people that worked with him and know him quite well. He charges $1,000 just to listen to your album. That is just to decide if he is going to do it or not! It is a contract he has drawn up. He charges a 1000 evaluation fee to see if he is going to master your album or not. He can say no, and still keep the grand.
Ian
at the risk of opening up old wounds, he's also done a pretty good job on several albums by a certain songwriter from New Jersey in whose defence I've been known to be quite partisan 
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| speedfreakjive |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
at the risk of opening up old wounds, he's also done a pretty good job on several albums by a certain songwriter from New Jersey in whose defence I've been known to be quite partisan
Jon Bon Jovi?  |
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| Gazza |
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:
Jon Bon Jovi?
I knew some fucker would say that. The only surprise is that Jumacfly didnt beat you to it! |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
I knew some fucker would say that. The only surprise is that Jumacfly didnt beat you to it!
I was on lunch break Gary, sorry!
kid rock may be??  |
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| nanatod |
As I've said before, how about the anti-social Steve Albini in the producer's chair?
If Mick thought Rick Rubin was tough to work with, he ain't seen nothing yet.
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| Break The Spell |
quote:
nanatod wrote:
As I've said before, how about the anti-social Steve Albini in the producer's chair?
If Mick thought Rick Rubin was tough to work with, he ain't seen nothing yet.
Albini would certainly take no shit from them, he really don't care who you are. If he thinks your doing something wrong or could do better, he'll tell you and not care about your feelings. I'd be surprised if he stayed long enough to produce a verse of a song, much less a whole album!! |
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| bob kidrock ritchie |
quote:
Jumacfly wrote:
I was on lunch break Gary, sorry!
kid rock may be??
Juma, I'm from Detroit, not New Jersey! Although, there is a chemical smell in both areas from refineries and heavy industry. Here in the motor city, we also get air and noise pollution when Eminem tries to rap.
BAWITDABA, Jumacfly! |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Gazza wrote:
at the risk of opening up old wounds, he's also done a pretty good job on several albums by a certain songwriter from New Jersey in whose defence I've been known to be quite partisan
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Jon Bonjovi?...
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| keefjunkie |
quote:
Break The Spell wrote:
I agree with Rubin being a great choice. He will be working with metallica this year and possibly some of next depending on how long their album takes. After that, he'll be available and who knows, by summer 2007 the stones may have at least a few new song ideas ready to go. A Bigger Bang was a great step at getting back to just the core of the band, their raw rockin' roots without many of the backing musicians. I think Rubin could help them take this idea even further. They don't need to be concerned with radio hits at this point in their career, it seems to have a hit these days you hve to be under 30 anyway. Just do a raw, honest album of great songs that reflect where they are at this point in their life, it worked for Johnny Cash certainly. Plus he worked with Mick on his best solo album. Mick may have found him diffucult to work with, but he really got the best out of him at the time.
Metallica really needs a good kick in the ass these days, maybe Rubin could be the guy to do it. I mean, after all he is the man that forced "Reign In Blood" out of Slayer.
Developing... |
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| nanatod |
quote:
Break The Spell wrote:
Albini would certainly take no shit from them, he really don't care who you are. If he thinks your doing something wrong or could do better, he'll tell you and not care about your feelings. I'd be surprised if he stayed long enough to produce a verse of a song, much less a whole album!!
Okay, Break, if not Steve Albini, then how about Steve Jordan. He co-produced "Talk is Cheap," so you know that any drum sound on the record will be good. As long as we get the right backbeat, IMO that's all that matters. |
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| gimmekeef |
Personally I always found Jordans drumming the weakest part of the Winos sound........Too much..all the same.... |
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| Gazza |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
[quote]Gazza wrote:
at the risk of opening up old wounds, he's also done a pretty good job on several albums by a certain songwriter from New Jersey in whose defence I've been known to be quite partisan
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Jon Bonjovi?...
someone already made that joke 8 hours earlier and within a minute of me posting it.... |
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| Gazza |
Rubin's interviewed in the new issue of UNCUT, out today, and he does talk about working with Jagger..its quite an eye-opener, even in what is only a brief exchange..
One of your less successful collaborations was with Mick Jagger on his 1993 album "Wandering Spirit". Was Jagger an example of someone you found impossible to work with?
Not impossible, exactly. But he was someone who came to me and said that he'd let me do what I wanted to do. In other words, we planned a collaboration. The problem of working with very well-known people is that they're constantly surrounded by people who tell them that everything they do is great. They never get to hear what they don't want to hear. I can remember looking at some lyrics with Jagger and saying, "I think you can write better words than this." The look on his face.....it was as though to say, "Are you crazy? Nobody says stuff like that to me". As if, y'know, the truth wasn't in his best interests.
On the basis of it, I wouldnt hold my breath expecting to read about him being in the producer's seat for any future Stones album (although teasingly, when asked about future projects he says theres "a chance" he'lll be working on a new Stooges record and that he's finishing the final Johnny Cash recordings). He also mentioned that he's worked with Neil Young a few times in the studio, although nothing has ever been released ("Archives"?? Please, Neil!) and when asked who he'd like to work with, answered "a call from Bob Dylan would be interesting. I would love to work with him. But I wonder if I could have the kind of conversation with Dylan like the one we're having now. I'd love to find out. But it just maybe that he's from another planet. Come to think of it, that might just be why Dylan can do what he does."
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| theanchorman |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Not to me its not. Its their masterpiece, and one of the best 5 albums of the 90's.
Yeah - the 90's sure did suck...didn't they???? |
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| theanchorman |
I agree with you comments on the production of the album...how it sounds sonically...
But it still lacks Keith. I blam DW for not tightening up VL & this record. There's too much deadwood IMO |
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| speedfreakjive |
no chance of Rubin on next album
more likely 'The Glimmer Twins' |
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| Navin |
I did like the Don Was produced Bob Dylan record, "Under the Red Sky"
Would love to see him work with Alice Cooper |
