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| morocco |
In the early days of the Rolling Stones, Brian Jones was hunted and hounded by the British police.
Arrested many times, Jones was the subject of a newspaper editorial, entitled, "Who Breaks A Butterfly on a Wheel?" The phrase "to break a butterfly on a wheel" means to use too much effort to accomplish too small a matter.
Keith often maintained that the police found Jones' achilles heel and ground Brian down mercilessly. I feel that the authorities were doing what they were supposed to do, make illicit drug use more trouble than it was worth.
Had Brian cleaned himself up, he may have returned to the vitality he had when he contributed those beautiful flavors to Stones' songs such as Ruby Tuesday and Paint It Black.
There was no reason that Jones could have one day been reinstated in the Rolling Stones, healthy, happy and strong. How beautiful would that have been? |
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| Joey |
" Had Brian cleaned himself up, he may have returned to the vitality he had when he contributed those beautiful flavors to Stones' songs such as Ruby Tuesday and Paint It Black. "
Yeah , like Brain Jones or Keith Moon were EVER going to clean themselves up .
Speaking of cleaning up :
" Stones Rule You Bastards !!!! "
Jacky !
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| morocco |
What many have forgotten, including myself, is that Brian Jones and Keith Richards were once a guitar team, playing together all day and all the night in a crummy cold water apartment.
Keith had the utmost respect for Brian as a musician. It might be safely stated that Jones was the musical leader and director of the band.
Could Brian have quit drugs? Yes. |
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| jb |
Senors Corgi y Vodoo es un gran hombres. NO mucho serioso!!! |
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| TracyGene |
Yeah, like Brian or Keith Moon were ever going to clean themselves up.
Isn't that the truth.Even Keef said in the documentary 25x5,"some people just won't live to be seventy".(talking about Brian)And Keith Moon? Forget it. |
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| morocco |
quote:
TracyGene wrote:
Yeah, like Brian or Keith Moon were ever going to clean themselves up.
At one time, the same thing might have been said of Keith Richards. |
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| Hannalee |
Whatever Brian Jones might, or might not, have done; The Times editorial was about Mick Jagger's arrest, not his.
Explicitly.
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| morocco |
quote:
Hannalee wrote:
Whatever Brian Jones might, or might not, have done; The Times editorial was about Mick Jagger's arrest, not his.
Explicitly.
I stand corrected, thank you. It's good to come to a message board where people are knowledgable.
Also, my last line should have read, "There was no reason Jones could not have been reinstated in the Stones...." |
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| kahoosier |
I don't think that even clean and sober, Brian could have been re-instated. By this time, Keith was living with Brian's ex, Anita, and the friction ran deeper than drug abuse. Brian hated where the Stones were heading musically and had even attempted to sabotage prior stage efforts, notoriously playing on occaision Popeye the Sailor during Satisfaction. His ego created a need for him to be the "leader" of the group, which by that time was solidly in the capable hands of Mick and Keith. The tensions were just too great even without the drugs. |
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| morocco |
quote:
kahoosier wrote:
His ego created a need for him to be the "leader" of the group, which by that time was solidly in the capable hands of Mick and Keith. The tensions were just too great even without the drugs.
I was hoping that perhaps some of Brian's personality flaws were drug-fueled. As far as the girl problems are concerned, Mick screwed Anita while she was Keith's girlfriend and the band carried on, proving that those kind of problems can be subsumed. Eventually, no one wanted Anita any more anyway.
If Brian could have realized that his role was adding just the right touch to the Stones' songs, imagine how good the Stones would have remained and how interesting their later material could have been. |
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| KeithRichards210 |
quote:
kahoosier wrote:
I don't think that even clean and sober, Brian could have been re-instated. By this time, Keith was living with Brian's ex, Anita, and the friction ran deeper than drug abuse. Brian hated where the Stones were heading musically and had even attempted to sabotage prior stage efforts, notoriously playing on occaision Popeye the Sailor during Satisfaction. His ego created a need for him to be the "leader" of the group, which by that time was solidly in the capable hands of Mick and Keith. The tensions were just too great even without the drugs.
I have to agree here. This was originally Brian's baby, taken away from him by Oldham mostly, then Keith & Mick. Taylor fit in better at the time of Brian's demise, due to the fact that he KNEW Keith & Mick were clearly in charge. Brian, no matter what the drug/relationship deal was, was clearly his own man and was dissatisfied with the direction the Stones were taking by 1968. It was inevitable.
Taylor also figured, wrongly, that he was good enough to fly solo. His first solo album IS a jewel, but nowhere near what his Stones material was.
Woody, however inept on lead guitar, was smart enough to see the big picture. He realized what side his bread was buttered on, so to speak, and that's why he survived the big Stone machine. Not the best guitarist by far, but perhaps the smartest.... |
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| glencar |
So now we have another invalid thread... |
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| Diedre |
I don't think drugs were Brian Jones only problem. He had mental problems, from descriptions of his behavior. His situation was probably close to what happened to Brian Wilson, Syd Barrett, and others. He wasn't quite as whacked as those guys, maybe, but he was getting close. Bill Wyman's first book refers to the possibility that he may have had temporal lobe epilepsy, which can produce effects similar to schizophrenia and other forms of psychosis. He suffered from delusions and hallucinations, as well as black-outs. He might have had depression or bipolar disorder, too. No one will ever know for sure. But there wasn't a lot of awareness of those types of conditions back then, and drugs only made things worse. But it's not that easy to stop drugs, especially if a person is self-medicating by using them to cover another disorder. So I don't think it's fair to make a value judgement against Brian Jones. If it were that easy, no one would take drugs, no one would need to go to detox, no one would relapse, etc. Things happen. Even if he were well, he still might have drowned. |
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| glencar |
34 years on, who can tell? The drugs probably exacerbated whatever problems he had. Jealousy of Mick & Keith probably couble-exacerbated it. But the fact is that no one wrote editorials about Brian & this whole thread is silly. People should have some idea of the subject matter before boring us with invalid quotes. |
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| Monkey Woman |
quote:
morocco wrote:
What many have forgotten, including myself,
How revealing!  |
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| glencar |
Totally! |
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| Maxlugar |
I was watching Sympathy for the Devil last night and I had seen something I had forgotten. During the early stages of the song, when Mick, Keith and Brian are playing accoustics, Brian is actually laying down some nice licks inbetween Keiths strumming. Just a little touch here and there. It shows Brian was not too far gone to contribute a little weaving. Question is, was he motivated enough by that time.
I say lets dig him up and take a close look at his Temporal Lobes.
Certainly, we can all agree with THAT....
MACKY!
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| glencar |
Get a petition up & I'll sign! |
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| stewed & Keefed |
All this to far gone is bullshit, just watch him play slide on No Expectations (Rock 'n'Roll Circus) |
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| Jumacfly |
morocco you from...morocco?? scuse my stupid question but i spent a crazy month in this beautiful country...
cheers
Ju |
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| morocco |
quote:
Jumacfly wrote:
morocco you from...morocco?? scuse my stupid question but i spent a crazy month in this beautiful country...
cheers
Ju
No, I'm not. I got the username "morocco" from the moroccan boots, scarves, and jewelry that Keith and Anita used to wear. |
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| Joey |
" Question is, was he motivated enough by that time ? "
You raise an interesting point there my little egg roll rolling , funny upside down roof building , Long Island living , #4 train to Van Cortlandt park taking , 8th street shopping during lunch breaking , snow shoveling , power - outage during the summer dealing , granola crunching , inexplicable afro in the '70's sporting , Teddy Roosevelt's preserved corpse caressing , at first sight of Bushie43 ejaculating , Ann Koulter reading on Friday night-ing , one dull weekend after another-ing , Steely Dan disliking pal .
The Wall Was Just Warmed Over Arthur !
JACKY !
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| glencar |
The #4 train doesn't go to Van Cortlandt Park, my square-state living, cubicle dwelling, Ho Dean smooching, white bread & turkey sandwich eating pal. |
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| Joey |
" The #4 train doesn't go to Van Cortlandt Park, "
# 7 Train ?!?!?!
Developing ................................ |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
morocco wrote:
No, I'm not. I got the username "morocco" from the moroccan boots, scarves, and jewelry that Keith and Anita used to wear.
Ebay. I'd buy one!
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| Mr. D |
Brian did have mental problems(IMO, bi-polar disorder), and the drugs didn't help at all. Even if he kicked the drugs, he still would be left with many mental problems I don't think he could have been treated for. I agree with whoever said that Brian's role was really to put little touchs on songs, which would in turn make them so much better. But, you must ask yourself-if Brian was never kicked out, we would not have gotten Sticky Fingers,Exhile on Main St., Goats Head, or IORR. Brian's demise with the band was something that sadly needed to happen for the band to go on. I think if Brian stayed with them a few years longer, everyone in the band would get tired of all the b.s. and eventually disband. |
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| glencar |
Is the Brian petition up yet? |
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| Gazza |
> Brian's demise with the band was something that sadly needed to happen for the band to go on. I think if Brian stayed with them a few years longer, everyone in the band would get tired of all the b.s. and eventually disband.
Correct. he also wouldnt have had a prayer of getting a visa for the 1969 US Tour either
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| Joey |
" Correct. he also wouldnt have had a prayer of getting a visa for the 1969 US Tour either "
Best that he got fired / died then ................?!?!?!
" Terrible Accident his death , but I do think none of us would be here today if he HAD lived . "
( Pete Townshend , 1994 , talking about Keith Moon's passing from this orb ! )
[Edited by Joey]
.....................................................
[ Edited by the Jacky ! ]
[Edited by Joey] |
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| Gazza |
Well he was fired/resigned (tick where applicable) a month before he died, so the fact that he unfortunately died a few weeks later made no difference to the Stones '69 tour plans as he'd already BEEN replaced. |
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