| 7th November 2007 01:51 PM |
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| glencar |
quote:
pdog wrote:
who voted today...?
I haven't yet, and if i don't, it would be the first time since 1992, and i have a good excuse for that.
I didn't vote yesterday as I'm still not driving much & it was purely a local election but I will vote next Nov. 4. |
| 7th November 2007 01:56 PM |
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| glencar |
quote:
andrews27 wrote:
Instead of pushing for Stones vault releases, we ought to be pushing for Election Week, not Election Day, in the USA. We are too large a population and too hard-working and distracted to vote for national offices in one day. The pols know this, and they count on low turnout to secure election results quickly, without a majority heard from. This is why two presidential elections in a row were stolen - partly because the custom is for one candidate to concede gracefully by end-of-day; and partly because criminals have to falsify fewer votes to win.
Also, if federal and state taxation is compulsory, then so should be voting - in an expanded election week with streamlined voting procedures. How many of you, like me, have dropped off the end of long voting lines by 7:30 p.m. after a full workday?
Write your congressmen and senators, and you won't have to hate America. Write endlessly, because *they don't want this.*
This is what you want:
*Election Week, not Election Day
*Voting required for citizenship so long as taxation is required.
[Edited by andrews27]
That alst sentence bothers me a lot. People HAVE to vote? Or they lose their citizenship? That's a democratic reform??? The rest of the idea is simply batty but that part's fascist. |
| 7th November 2007 02:01 PM |
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| Blowey |
quote:
glencar wrote:
That alst sentence bothers me a lot. People HAVE to vote? Or they lose their citizenship? That's a democratic reform??? The rest of the idea is simply batty but that part's fascist.
It's a good thing some people don't vote.
Many are too stupid to understand the ramifications.
Like me!
Blllllllooowwwwweyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 7th November 2007 02:19 PM |
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| glencar |
Joey, you finally ADMIT IT!!! |
| 7th November 2007 08:57 PM |
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| oldkr |
actually its been proven in study after study that the effect of the non-voter voting would be negligible. There are several countries that require voting by law: greece, australia, mexico, brazil, switzerland and luxembourg come to mind.
OLDKR |
| 7th November 2007 08:59 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
actually its been proven in study after study that the effect of the non-voter voting would be negligible. There are several countries that require voting by law: greece, australia, mexico, brazil, switzerland and luxembourg come to mind.
OLDKR
What the punishment for not voting....?
I imagine it would be, getting forced to listen to The Eagles new album. |
| 7th November 2007 09:33 PM |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
. There are several countries that require voting by law: greece, australia, mexico, brazil, switzerland and luxembourg come to mind.
that's kind of a mis-conception
here you are not actually required to cast a vote but you are required, by law, to attend at a polling booth and collect your ballot paper and have your name crossed of the roll - what you then do with your ballot is your affair
however the practical result is as they have had to go to the trouble of getting there most people do end up voting
for one reason or another over the last 20 years I have on a few occasions (to State and Federal elections) attended as required but not actually cast a vote as none of the candidates standing seemed to have any merit Imho
and pdog - the penalty for failing to do so is a fairly small fine - not sure how much maybe AU$50.00 - $200.00
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
| 7th November 2007 09:43 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
here you are not actually required to cast a vote but you are required, by law, to attend at a polling booth and collect your ballot paper and have your name crossed of the roll - what you then do with your ballot is your affair
ghey |
| 7th November 2007 09:45 PM |
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| stonedinaustralia |
why ghey why?? |
| 7th November 2007 09:47 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
why ghey why??
I have to give a reason?...I'm sure you can think up all kinds of reasons on your own as to why that's ghey...It's ghey...that's my proclamation |
| 7th November 2007 09:49 PM |
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| stonedinaustralia |
sure as with most things there are arguments on both sides
was just interested to hear the basis of yours - |
| 7th November 2007 09:53 PM |
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| pdog |
the funny thing, americans who don't vote, probably get screwed out of way more than $200 b/c of it... |
| 7th November 2007 10:02 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
sure as with most things there are arguments on both sides
was just interested to hear the basis of yours -
Beyond the notion that the intended effect is to compel a person who has no desire to vote, to vote, it would seem to me that it would lead to uninformed voting, which I find worse than not voting...beyond that, it seems a waste of human resources and capital to require someone who does not want to vote, to go through the machinations just so he or she doesn't have to cast a vote...and worse, much worse, Jesus Christ the sky is gonna fall bad, is the contribution to the greenhouse effect all those would-be non-voters make with their unnecessary travel...in addition, and not alltogether unrelated, it's ghey |
| 7th November 2007 10:18 PM |
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| stonedinaustralia |
yeah i can see the points you made
the other side is this - most people have an opinion that would reflect itself in a meaningful vote - because they are then compelled to drag their lazy arses to the polling booth they usually end up expressing that opinion (not necessarily an uninformed one) at the ballot box
consequently, the result is then a much more accurate reflection of what the people actually want (as befits a democracy) without that result being compromised by factors such as laziness and complacency
but yeah, i can certainly see the paradox of the voting in a free and democractic election being compulsory
in the end i have no barrow to push either way
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
| 7th November 2007 10:41 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
yeah i can see the points you made
the other side is this - most people have an opinion that would reflect itself in a meaningful vote - because they are then compelled to drag their lazy arses to the polling booth they usually end up expressing that opinion (not necessarily an uninformed one) at the ballot box
consequently, the result is then a much more accurate reflection of what the people actually want (as befits a democracy) without that result being compromised by factors such as laziness and complacency
but yeah, i can certainly see the paradox of the voting in a free and democractic election being compulsory
in the end i have no barrow to push either way
[Edited by stonedinaustralia]
And there is the obvious effect on freedom of choice...the lack of voting is an expression in itself no?...Don't get me started on voting...who should, who shouldn't...that would get ugly...quick |
| 7th November 2007 11:08 PM |
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| andrews27 |
quote:
glencar wrote:
That alst sentence bothers me a lot. People HAVE to vote? Or they lose their citizenship? That's a democratic reform??? The rest of the idea is simply batty but that part's fascist.
We separated from England on the ticket of "No taxation w/o representation." Those who are taxed must vote. Otherwise, abolish taxes for those who do not care to vote.
If I told you the working classes should employ Euro-style general strikes to contest the rich, you'd call me a communist. |
| 7th November 2007 11:28 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
andrews27 wrote:
We separated from England on the ticket of "No taxation w/o representation." Those who are taxed must vote. Otherwise, abolish taxes for those who do not care to vote.
If that is the underlying logic behind such a law, then why do you not just govern by referendum?...in all aspects?...
your vote is no guarantee your interests are represented...even if the person you vote for wins...and so it makes sense, in those cases where none of the candidates represents your true interests, to compel a vote?...the answer is no...it doesn't make sense...I think the words you are looking for are, as we Americans are so fond of saying, "If you don't vote don't bitch"...you seem to subscribe to the PDiddy school of voting..."Vote or Die"
Abolish taxes for those who don't vote?...huh?...sign me up!...for the non-voter roster
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
| 8th November 2007 03:23 PM |
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| oldkr |
because whether a government is federal or unitary, it's a representative democratic state NOT a democracy.
Governing by ref is a democracy.
end of Gov't 101
OLDKR |
| 8th November 2007 03:31 PM |
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| Blowey |
Nonsteroidal Anti-inflammatory Drug Use and Flank Pain.
SARA C. MCINTIRE MD1, RONALD C. RUBENSTEIN MD, PHD1, J. CARLTON GARTNER JR MD1, NISAN GILBOA MD1, and DEMETRIUS ELLIS MD1
1 Dept of Pediatrics, Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Pittsburgh, PA
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are used in adults with well-known toxic renal effects.1 They are used less often in pediatric patients, and the reports of serious nephrotoxic effects are infrequent. We report two cases of acute flank pain and reversible renal dysfunction associated with use of NSAIDs.
CASE REPORTS
F.M.
A healthy 14-year-old boy took three doses of flurbiprofen (100 mg per dose every 12 hours) to relieve bilateral ankle pain, which he experienced after playing hockey and skiing; 2 days later bilateral costovertebral angle tenderness developed. At a local hospital a urinalysis showed 30 mg/dL protein and 1 to 2 red blood cells and 2 to 3 white blood cells per high-power field (hpf).
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| 8th November 2007 03:43 PM |
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| glencar |
quote:
andrews27 wrote:
We separated from England on the ticket of "No taxation w/o representation." Those who are taxed must vote. Otherwise, abolish taxes for those who do not care to vote.
If I told you the working classes should employ Euro-style general strikes to contest the rich, you'd call me a communist.
Fiji Joe answered you well enough as to your main pts but I'll just add that general strikes have never worked well in the USA. These Hollywood jokers are acting like their recent outage is a major labor issue but I prefer reality TV at this point to their inane sitcoms & routine police procedurals. I was intrigued to hear John Stamos (he's on ER & what's more, ER is still on???) claiming that soon he & his castmates will start raisning money to help lesser people on the show make mortgage payments. Good luck with THAT! |
| 8th November 2007 03:51 PM |
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| monkey_man |
American TV watchers should strike for better writing!! |
| 8th November 2007 03:53 PM |
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| Strange_Stray_Cat |
I did not vote. But then again, I'm not American. |
| 8th November 2007 08:16 PM |
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| andrews27 |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
I think the words you are looking for are, as we Americans are so fond of saying, "If you don't vote don't bitch"...you seem to subscribe to the PDiddy school of voting..."Vote or Die"
No, what I want is an Election Week and the fairest possible election count. I fully understand the concepts of democracy and republican government, teaching them to college students as I do.
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| 8th November 2007 08:23 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
glencar wrote:
Fiji Joe answered you well enough as to your main pts but I'll just add that general strikes have never worked well in the USA. These Hollywood jokers are acting like their recent outage is a major labor issue but I prefer reality TV at this point to their inane sitcoms & routine police procedurals. I was intrigued to hear John Stamos (he's on ER & what's more, ER is still on???) claiming that soon he & his castmates will start raisning money to help lesser people on the show make mortgage payments. Good luck with THAT!
The writers have a very valid gripe. The ones who write TV shows, should get paid when they are sold on DVd and syndicated. It's bullshit they aren't paid. I don't care how much money I ever have, one thing I know for sure, and everyone I know believes, no one should make money off my work, if I'm not getting paid too... This goes to same believes about sharing music. Then again, we both work for free 3 months out of the year... |
| 8th November 2007 08:25 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
andrews27 wrote:
No, what I want is an Election Week and the fairest possible election count. I fully understand the concepts of democracy and republican government, teaching them to college students as I do.
Locally it is done, and can be done. City Hall in SF has open pools the entire week before the first tuesday of the month. Still low voter turnout this year. One thing i've realized, you can't make people give a fuck, and most never do, and those that do, usually takes a direct issue that they have something at stake in, before they get involved. |
| 9th November 2007 11:13 AM |
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| oldkr |
the problem has to do with issue-based parties playing cleavage issue politics- turns everybody off, turns the candidates off leaving only the robotic high-performers to vote. There is no solution to voter apathy from the voters perspective. Leaving the polls open for a month wouldnt change a thing. The non-voter is not suddenly going to get educated and vote, the robots will just follow their usual path.
You're cutting the wrong end of the wood my friend
OLDKR |
| 9th November 2007 11:19 AM |
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| Shmoey |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
the problem has to do with issue-based parties playing cleavage issue politics- turns everybody off, turns the candidates off leaving only the robotic high-performers to vote. There is no solution to voter apathy from the voters perspective. Leaving the polls open for a month wouldnt change a thing. The non-voter is not suddenly going to get educated and vote, the robots will just follow their usual path.
You're cutting the wrong end of the wood my friend
OLDKR
wwhhhaaaat???
***IMMEDIATE END OF TRANSMISSION-
GARY COLEMAN HAS RETURNED WITH THE GROCERIES**** |
| 9th November 2007 12:21 PM |
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| andrews27 |
quote:
oldkr wrote:
the problem has to do with issue-based parties playing cleavage issue politics- turns everybody off, turns the candidates off leaving only the robotic high-performers to vote. There is no solution to voter apathy from the voters perspective. Leaving the polls open for a month wouldnt change a thing. The non-voter is not suddenly going to get educated and vote, the robots will just follow their usual path.
You're cutting the wrong end of the wood my friend
OLDKR
And you're blaming the victim, which also allows him to skate past that culpability he does possess. It's both ends - cleaner politics, responsible voters. But, when the US is, by next November, in the position of having been ruled for decades by the same two families (B, C, B, C), who are in cahoots, then something must be done on the voter end.
[Edited by andrews27] |
| 9th November 2007 02:29 PM |
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| oldkr |
people won't give a shit unless there's something to give a shit about. the voter cant demand a new type of candidate when the whole system is set up for a single type of candidate with one of two sets of very closely related views.
what i'm saying is the system castrates the voter. You have to accept that as a relaity.
OLDKR
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| 9th November 2007 02:53 PM |
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| pdog |
castrated voters!! ouch! |
