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| morocco |
Suffused in the African American experience in the early Delta was a Biblical faith and hope in the hereafter. The black sharecroppers had little to look forward to in this life other than a life of poverty, sweat, and degradation.
As they worked, the farmworkers sang mournful hymns and sorrowful laments rooted in the promises of the Bible. These hymns featured a call and response style and the flatted third, a hallmark of the blues. There is no doubt that the Rolling Stones were drawn to this poignant style of African American music and emulated these themes in songs like "Prodigal Son" and "Salt Of The Earth."
The prodigal son was a New Testament lesson of repentance. When Christ said "Ye are the salt of the earth," many Biblical scholars feel he was speaking of the effect of faith, meekness, and humility in this world.
It is this connection with these profound spiritual themes that gives the Stones an added depth and maturity, and I think it makes their blues more authentic. |
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| Zack |
"Suffused." Cool word. I'm going to try to work it into the conversation at my dinner table tonight. |
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| LadyJane |
****************blank friggin stare***********************
The posts of morocco and Shine A Light have been invoking the above mentioned stare for days!!
Where are all the regulars???? 
LJ.
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| SHINE A LIGHT |
oh dear, Janey is cranky!!!! me,i'm feelin'real fine this beautiful, sunny mornin'. just figured out why LJ keeps "a crate" of Sominex on hand......my fine hubby is my own "sominex".......slept like babes last night! woke up sayin' oh, such a lovely life!!!! poor, LJ. |
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| Monkey Woman |
Please pass the Lithium to SAL...  |
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| SHINE A LIGHT |
man, you people keep a lotta drugs on hand...... |
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| egon |
morocco, you are taking the piss right?
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| LadyJane |
quote:
SHINE A LIGHT wrote:
oh dear, Janey is cranky!!!! me,i'm feelin'real fine this beautiful, sunny mornin'. just figured out why LJ keeps "a crate" of Sominex on hand......my fine hubby is my own "sominex".......slept like babes last night! woke up sayin' oh, such a lovely life!!!! poor, LJ.
Janey is only cranky when she reads another one of your MANY pretentious posts!!!
LJ.
PS....I bet I'm not the only one who feels this way!!
[Edited by LadyJane] |
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| glencar |
LJ, don't get cranky. Just do the ignore thing with those who annoy you. Hopefully not me but... |
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| LadyJane |
I'm usually so good about not getting annoyed...but there is ONE particular poster who just gets under my skin.
You are right, my friend. Ignore...Ignore....Ignore 
LJ. |
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| glencar |
Yes, it's much better for the heart! |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
Yeah, I've totally given up on this guy. I'm just puttin' the complete works of The Faces on my iPod (thank you Santa Claus!) and having me a real good time this morning.
-tSYX --- I was glad to come... |
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| Nasty Habits |
Fascinatingly, it is as the Stones have directly moved away from the blues that their dependence and exploration of various theologies have become even more dominant in their lyrical brooding and explorations. Hence, their 90s albums read textually almost as if they (or in particular front man Mick Jagger, whose songs seem to fit the pattern more than songwriting partner Keith Richards) are searching for spiritual sustenance to counterbalance their predominantly heathen worldview of the 60s, 70s, and what is documented of their 80s (although the touchstone album Dirty Work begins to show ennui with the constant dependence on material wealth and social stair stepping) songwriting. Whether it genuinely reflects a deepening spiritual worldview or merely a flip lip curl at deep songwriting in the face of a paucity of ideas, songs like "Blinded by Rainbows", "God Gave Me Everything", "Rock & a Hard Place", "Blinded by Love", "Hearts for Sale", "God Gave Me Everything" & "Joy" allude to a Christian spiritual quest that gains sincerity through its shockingly constant repitition -- this quest reaching its current apotheosis in Bridges to Babylon, which can in its various and sundry lyrical allusions be seen as a coherent if ultimately muddled spiritual quest in itself, from the doomed executionee of "Flip the Switch" to the determined narcissist of "Saint of Me" to the ultimate hints of salvationary potentiality of an almost accidental nature implied with the final Christ allusion on the album, "Thief in the Night" Indeed the switching back and forth from hedonistic to spiritual concerns seems to lie at the heart of Bridges to Babylon and with possible edited the album could have brought these contrasts into sharper focus and its position as a late period Stones masterpiece would be solidified to even the band's most stolid critics.
Now THAT'S taking the piss!
This stuff is DEAD easy, morocco. Don't you have any really good stories or something?
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| morocco |
Actually, I was being serious. It seems that on albums like Beggars Banquet, the further the Stones got from a clean lifestyle, the more they yearned for and respected the people depicted in The Salt Of The Earth.
Let's drink to the hard working people
Let's drink to the lowly of birth
To me this is a beautiful song. I know that some people who love the Stones know what I'm talking about. |
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| Nasty Habits |
Have you ever considered that whole song and thought about how the songwriters are basically saying they can't even relate to the people who only have a choice of grey suited grafters, cancer or polio?
I think that whole song is, its original concept, taking the piss. Although it's been thoroughly recontextualized for a post 9/11 world to be shiny and happy.
All the disturbing contridictions and elitism apply to the original version, though. |
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| morocco |
If your interpretation is correct, then I would have no choice but to despise the Stones for their arrogance and elitism.
I would rather take their 9/11 performance at face value. |
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| Nasty Habits |
You're gonna have to face the Stones' arrogance and elitism some day, so I'd get right on that one . . .
That said, I'm pretty sure the 9/11 thing was straight up, but what would you yourself believe in the "face value" of a line like, "When I look in this faceless crowd, a swirling mass of greys & blacks and whites, they don't look real to me, in fact they look so strange . . . "
Certainly sounds like someone unable to relate to the "swirling mass" to me.
The sound of strangers sends nothing to their minds.
Just a little word of advice from one ticket and dollar sign to another.
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| morocco |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
...but what would you yourself believe in the "face value" of a line like,
"When I look in this faceless crowd, a swirling mass of greys & blacks and whites, they don't look real to me, in fact they look so strange . . . "
Certainly sounds like someone unable to relate to the "swirling mass" to me.
Yes, the singer is unable to relate, but there is a tone of yearning and sadness because he is cut off from humble, real people. I honestly feel the singer is looking at the salt of the earth with love and compassion. |
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| Monkey Woman |
Salt of the Earth
(Mick Jagger / Keith Richards )
Recording date: May-July 1968
Let's drink to the hard working people
Let's drink to the lowly of birth
Raise your glass to the good and the evil
Let's drink to the salt of the earth
Say a prayer for the common foot soldier
Spare a thought for his back breaking work
Say a prayer for his wife and his children
Who burn the fires and who still till the earth
When I search a faceless crowd
A swirling mass of gray and black and white
They don't look real to me
In fact they look so strange
Raise your glass to the hard working people
Let's drink to the uncounted heads
Let's think of the wavering millions
Who need leading but get gamblers instead
Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And parades of gray-suited grafters
A choice of cancer or polio
When I look into that faceless crowd
A swirling mass of grays and blacks and whites
They don't look real to me
Oh don't they look so strange?
Let's drink to the hard working people
Let's think of the lowly of birth
Spare a thought for the ragtaggy people
Let's drink to the salt of the earth
Let's drink to the hard working people
Let's drink to the salt of the earth
Let's drink to the 2000 millions
Let's think of the humble of birth
Let's take a drink to the salt of the earth
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These are the words on Beggars Banquet album. You're right in saying that it's very tongue-in-cheek, Nasty. But I think that the beauty with this song (and many other Stones songs) is that it can be AT THE SAME TIME a thorough piss-take AND a genuine hommage or thumbs up.
It's both ironical and sincere when they say "let's take a drink to the salt of the earth", which I think was from the beginning a fond and humorous wink to their fans, this "mass of blue, grey, black and white". They didn't play the song in public often so it's not easy to say. But for instance, in the R'n'R Circus video, see the moment when Jagger changes the lines to "Do we look real to you" and "I do'nt think we look so strange", staring straight into the camera (and thus the audience).
But maybe it's all in the ear of the listener. Let's not read too much in this stuff, or we will all become redoutable Stones scolars! The music is here to be enjoyed first, for Hecate's sake!
[Edited by Monkey Woman] |
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| Nasty Habits |
Yeah, it's like, what can a poor boy do but sing in a rock and roll band?
I agree with you, Monkey Woman. The Stones' classic lyrics almost always wield a double edged sword. It is, in fact, one of the amazing things about the band -- but you have to take the "bad" with the "good". Is "Under My Thumb" rank misogyny, a critique of rank misogyny, or a tale of empowerment? Is "It's Only Rock and Roll" an admission of superficiality or a big wide middle finger with a wink, and does Mick want out or is he saying he's in it for life? Is sex with slaves bad or is it kinda fun?
I would be fascinated to know how anyone gets a positive spiritual message bout of the Stones' reading of Robert Wilkins' "Prodigal Son", because it sounds to me like a priveleged trust fund baby who smirks "yeah" at the end because he got away with squandering his inheritance and is only gonna get more.
If you're going to talk about the Stones at one spiritual level you'd better be prepared to slide down a very slippery slope, because those attitudes exist simultaneously, and you can't take one without the other. THAT is one of the true wonders of the Rolling Stones.
By the way, Jag's lyric flip on the Rock and Roll Circus version is even more Us-Vs.-Them than the alb. vers. I mean, the statement is very "you think I'm a freak and I don't really think you exist" type I/Thou split. And he looks proud when he says it.
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| Navin |
On 'Salt of the earth':
The song purports to be tribute to the ordinary folk who toil for no reward: "Let's drink to the hard-working people", etc. Some have heard it as a ringing statement of working-class solidarity, but they've probably allowed themselves to hear what they wanted to hear. In fact, it's hard to escape the feeling that the tone is a mocking one, and as Jagger launches into "Let's drink to the two thousand million", there's more than a hint of sarcasm. Although many have taken the song at face value (Judy Collins, amongst others, who included a version on her highly successful 'Judith'), but the song is as much a sneer as a salute. The Stones, and Jagger in particular, have been accused of many things in their time, but identification with working-class interests has never been one of them.
- By John Aldridge (Satisfaction: The Story of Mick Jagger, Pages 85-96, 1984 Proteus Books) |
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| kahoosier |
Wow, intelligent conversatsion on a thread started by a non-regular that some do not like...I bet Lady Jane's blank stare is approaching deer-in-a-headlight status about now!
Off course I aslo wonder if someone that cries "where are all the regulars" isn't feeling the lyrics:
"And when I look in the faceless crowd
A swirling mass of grays and black and white
They don't look real to me
Or don't they look so strange "
thus living the sense of elitism the group is touching upon but basing IT UPON THE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT AND SOCAILLY SIGNIGIFACANT BASIS OF HOW LONG YOU HAVE BEEN POSTING AND HOW OFTEN YOU POST ON THIS SITE!
I mean God forbid that we extend welcome to any one new with a smaller knowledge base and an intense curiosity. I think at the next tour we should ask Cohl to limit ticket sales only to those that can prove they are fans at least back to the Mick Taylor years with a minimum of 500 posts between here, Shidoobee, and IORR, so as not to aggravate the regulars who are the only true fans. Lets return to the true meaning of all of this, drinking and druggin'!
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| LadyJane |
WTF??? Is this the "Let's Trash LadyJane Thread?"
I ALWAYS go out of my way to welcome ALL newcomers!!!
But I am entitled to express a negative opinion EVERY NOW and THEN!!!!
Don't like it..........TOO BAD!!!
LJ.
PS...kahoosier..I take GREAT offense at your last post!! EXCUSE me for missing my friends (the "regulars"). If you've paid attention AT ALL to 98% of my posts, you'll find that I am NOT an elitist!! Far from it!! And if you were within 10 feet of me at this very moment YOU would have the "deer in the headlights" look on your face!!! 
[Edited by LadyJane] |
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| Monkey Woman |
quote:
kahoosier wrote:
Wow, intelligent conversatsion on a thread started by a non-regular that some do not like...
That's the beauty of Internet forums in general and RO in particular! We are better than even we believe we are!
I'll pass on the nasty and uncalled-for personnal attack, it isn't worth the electrons to transmit it.
quote:
I mean God forbid that we extend welcome to any one new with a smaller knowledge base and an intense curiosity. I think at the next tour we should ask Cohl to limit ticket sales only to those that can prove they are fans at least back to the Mick Taylor years with a minimum of 500 posts between here, Shidoobee, and IORR, so as not to aggravate the regulars who are the only true fans. Lets return to the true meaning of all of this, drinking and druggin'!
Amen for the last point. But there are newbies, and then there are trollers... Though at the rate morocco is posting, she will before long challenge jb for number of posts! LOL |
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| Moonisup |
quote:
LadyJane wrote:
Janey is only cranky when she reads another one of your MANY pretentious posts!!!
LJ.
PS....I bet I'm not the only one who feels this way!!
[Edited by LadyJane]
You are right LJ!
rik |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
Well maybe this should be one of those "moderated" boards. Every child recieves the same number of pencils and a green uniform. |
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| Monkey Woman |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Well maybe this should be one of those "moderated" boards. Every child recieves the same number of pencils and a green uniform.
The Great Pan forbids!  |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Monkey Woman wrote:
The Great Pan forbids!
Well, it by no means would be an ideal situation, but conflict would disappear. Like, take away everyone's guns and the police will protect us. |
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| Monkey Woman |
Sure. But this kind of board already exist. Why duplicate someone else's board? And where would be the fun? RO is not polite or well behaved but it's part of it's charm! And nobody is "really" going to get killed...
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| Lambchop |
quote:
morocco wrote:
Yes, the singer is unable to relate, but there is a tone of yearning and sadness because he is cut off from humble, real people. I honestly feel the singer is looking at the salt of the earth with love and compassion.
He is and he isn't. There is so much social and psychological complexity in just that one song - let alone their body of work, that it's rather apparent that they are far more sophisticated, and ultimately, time may tell, better and more important artists than the Beatles. |
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