|
|
| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
I asked this at the end of last leg, and now that we're into the European shows, which I have neither seen nor heard, I guess I gotta ask those of you more in the loop - how do you think it's going so far? I get that sick sensation that the boys are coasting on *knowing* that they are once again a band to be reckoned with, and therefore don't need to prove it except in the club shows.
So how have the shows you've been to seemed so far?
-tSYX --- War, children... |
|
|
| egon |
both barca & marseille were great,
maybe the best i've ever seen
there did not seem to be any 'coasting' going on.
2 fantastic shows.
just one problem: i have no more tickets!
|
|
|
| luxury1 |
Of the six shows I've seen this tour, the band seems a bit "hit and miss." Mick's voice, however, is the best I've ever heard (although the band, horns included, backup singers and Mick dont always seem to be in the same key!!) But hey, the Stones have always been sloppy, it is part of their charm--I would not recognize them if they sounded too slick. And the live fuck-ups are hilarious when the band is all getting along and laughing on stage. But this time around, I didnt witness all that much laughing at the mistakes, and Keith and Ronnie are in and out of the groove too often. So that is my take on the tour, and having said that, I will continue to spend all my ducets to see them, hear them and I hope they never stop touring and recording.I just hope all the band members are still enjoying "'aving a go at it."
That is my biggest fear--that they are not enjoying playing together as much as in earlier days. And they certainly dont need to stay together for the money or artistic outlet. they all have so many side projects and interests. Someone needs to quickly lock Mick and Keith in the kitchen (was it?) again, and not let them out until they have written a few strong songs TOGETHER--not more of the "you bring this one to the table, I'll bring that one, and just throw some fairie dust on it." I am a bit worried about our Glimmer Twins.
[Edited by luxury1]
[Edited by luxury1] |
|
|
| T&A |
it's really very fascinating to watch/hear the evolution of this band - particularly the guitars. I was watching the newly circulating Hampton DVD (81) the other night. Always been one of my favorite shows - but hadn't seen the video in many years. Wow - play that back to back with say this year's HBO show and it's two COMPLETELY different bands, guitar-wise. Charlie hasn't changed much. Mick is definitely commanding the vocals much better than he ever has (has something to do with staying in one place for more than a nano-second more often). But, I cannot believe how much different RW and KR play than they used to. RW has a completely new set of chops than he did in '81. I won't bother to comment on better/worse. Among the many changes - notice how he never uses the whammy-bar anymore, which was one of his trademarks in 81.
As for KR - don't know what to say that wouldn't be construed as a criticism. But, suffice it to say that he owned the stage in 81.
Of course the loss of Wyman leaves a MAJOR hole from the sound of '81 - Bill was absolutely critical to their entire sound. Every song had his signature on it. Darryl - serviceable though he is - has absolutely no personality with the bass.
It's incredible, though, that despite very these very dramatic changes, they continue to make interesting music that we come back to over and over again. |
|
|
| sammy davis jr. |
I also say it's hit and miss, which is discouraging considering they are over 50 shows into the tour. They are nowhere near where they were in '81. The guitars are just a shadow of yesteryear. While Mick is still a good front man, his vox are so much more limited now- he doesn't even try to hit high registers anymore. Quite depressing to see your favorite singer has jumped the shark. |
|
|
| Jumacfly |
Well,after the 3 french shows, i got to admit i was very surprised by our stones...i thought they were completely out, cause the sound on us bootlegs of this tour was very poor..i was afraid of charlie s playing: he still holds the rythm...Ronnie was great, except on bercy where keith stole the show!! keith is still keith, and mick s voice go better and better, like on the highlight rambler!
of course, it s not 78 anymore, i think fans are agree with that, those guys are nearly 60, but still know how to rock an audience...stage is their life!
i was very happy, despite sloppy versions (miss you, brown sugar, TD, cyhmk) to hear classics hits that still got the fire on stage, like JJF, satisfaction, rambler, SFM who s great, gimme shelter, monkey man,bitch, live with me, love in vain...all those versions were closed to perfection for me...raw sound, maximum energy, chuck low in the mix:
this tour is really the best i ve heard from many years ago (the voodoo sloppy tour, the bridges to one guitar tour)
cheers
el Juli |
|
|
| Moonisup |
very wise words LUX, I have seen 3 shows, I think 9 to go, and it's indeed HIT and MISS, Bercy was really really good, and stade not, and about that writing together; they should do that, but I also think Mick and keith aren't the best friends anymore;
Keith just looks sometimes if he ain't there, and, well mick is just sooooo good; charlie too mostly; |
|
|
| luxury1 |
Yes, Rik. Too often this tour the guitars are indeed the weakest link. Have you heard the Budokhan (?) Worried Bout you?? Yikes!! Is that Ronnie attempting the guitar solo??
However, at Giants Stadium this fall, I was smack in front of Keith, and by the end of the show--Satisfaction and JJF--well, he blew my doors off--all the hairs stood up on the back on my neck. The world was a better place.
But I get the feeling if he doesnt "like" the song, he just aint there for the rest of the band, or something like that. And Ronnie just seems "lost" at times.
Oh well, I believe that is what makes them the Rolling Stones.
[Edited by luxury1] |
|
|
| Zeeta |
Yeah Lux I have heard the solo on Worried About You it is Budokhan and it is a weak attempt some of the notes played are not in any scale I know of!! I thought it was Keith doing the solo actually(??)
BUT everyone has off days and The Stones are included - I mean even this leg has neary 50 gigs on!!! Not many other bands have even come near this amount of shows - I know its over a long period of time but still the're 60 odd!
Even on the '73 tour they had off nights and on nights it's just the way it goes.
I'm out! |
|
|
| Honky Tonk Man |
Yeah luxury, i think everyone should agree that Giants has been the best show from this tour so far. Best stadium show anyway!
Performance wise, that show was SO MUCH BETTER than the Olympihalle.
You thought Ronnies solo was bad on Worried About You? It was awful, but you should of heard his Don't Stop solo at the Olympihalle. TERRIBLE!!!
Alex |
|
|
| marko |
Donīt what to think actually.Micks the engine,keith is just
lazy,ronnie is a joker,,,but is playing better than in 97-99
years,,,,,,not close to his hey-days.
Charlie is allways charlie.But iīm damn bored with set lists
they are giving after all these years,specially stadiums.
Helsinki is the last stadium show for me.definetily.
Oh btw,keith should stop playing solos,,,just awful.i think
Keith is having more&more offf nights,there wasnīt many on
voodoo tour,or btb tour as well. |
|
|
| Jumacfly |
You re damn right Marko, keith has forgotten every solo notion!Especially on songs like sympathy...they should stop playing it...set list in stadium is very limited...but you know what?? in Marseillea Stade de france i was just enjoying the show, with his qualities and failures..
but, imo, Bercy was my firt stone show,arenas are definitely the rendez vous of stones aficionados...cause of the setlist, but also of the sound.stones music takes off in a closed place, like club too. Stadium won t ever satisfy us, cause we know stones can play better in better conditions, wihtout warhorses |
|
|
| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
About Ronnie's "Don't Stop" solo - that's really weird, 'cuz generally when I hear boots of that song played, it's his bitch. He lets loose a kind of pair of solos - one earlier on with the camera which is pretty good, and then one *killer* one right before the end, which Mick and Keith's guitars drown right out.
Best show I've heard this tour bootleg-wise remains Boston '03, though I think it was just 'cuz I was there. Roseland still gives me the best "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" for my money (or B&P, as the case may be).
I think "hit-and-miss" describes it perfectly. Some shows are so on (Roseland, Boston '03) that they hit '75 levels, some shows are so off (Munich, Oakland) that they hit '99 levels.
About Ronnie's lack of the bar - in an interview, he's admitted to changing his style after sobering up. Drunk, he said, he would play with any and everything he had and play it constantly (probably still on the Faces hook as being the only guitarist on stage a la Townshend), giving Keith the ability to do much the same ("the ancient art of weaving"). Now, he's admitted that he's stepped back and said "Nights of wasting myself ain't gonna work anymore" and tried to experiment a bit, resulting in that "hit-or-miss" quality.
When I saw Boston '03 and *both of them* (Keith and Ronnie) were having good nights, it was jaw-dropping. "All Down The Line" burned with such an intensity that I thought someone would throw a match and light Ronnie on fire. "Sympathy" I was almost ready to sit down for, and then, outta nowhere, Keith just *blows* through the solo. It rivaled the '69 tour - loud, midrange on the guitar, choppy and chordy, loud. (Did I say loud?)
But Keith's good nights seem fewer and further between, Ronnie's new philosophy does him no favors on the slide (Uggh, "Let It Bleed", "Love In Vain" and "No Expectations" have been suffering on this tour... where's Ronnie "I am fucking slide god" Wood?), and into the void comes Chuck, bumbling away good-naturedly. And I give the guy credit - on bad nights, there'd be *no one* playing if it wasn't for him.
On the plus side, there's still plenty of fire in 'em, and we *know* they're capable of playing better than they have in twenty years. They just aren't. I think it's complacency. Keith is more than happy to swing his guitar off and let that fucking synth cut through "Slipping Away", Ronnie sometimes tries to follow Keith's lead or has a bad night anyway (probably vestages of the '02 feuds the pair of them were having onstage).
"Live With Me" from Budokan was one of the best versions I've ever heard of that song. "Rambler" and "Knocking" on almost all nights give 'em a chance to get all powered up, which is where they really shine (although Keith's been progressively mangling the intro to "Knocking" a bit, hasn't he?).
Hopin' for the best. A new album, a few more club shows, I think they might start having more hits than misses as we drag on.
-tSYX --- Talkin' 'bout you... |
|
|
| steel driving hammer |
It's sad that Keith is forgetting his solos but thats the thing about the Stones.
But on every song, on every tour, the solos are different.
Especially Ronnie's.
Does Sympathy really have a set standard solo? I think it's mostly improv. |
|
|
| luxury1 |
Well said, SavageYoungOne.
I realize everyone has off nights, but from what I am hearing, it sounds like they forgot how to play guitar at times!! And yes, often, if it wasnt for Chuck plunking along, no one would be playing!
However, saying all this, I have never before seen 6 shows from a single tour, and listened as critically as I have of late (it also helps to not get "wasted outta my head" as I did in my days of youthful folly--no comments from the peanut gallery please.)
So someone tell me, have the Stones always been this hit and miss in past tours??
And I am so worried that Mick will tire of Keith's "laziness" and cavalier attitude, and Keith will get pissed at Mick's prima donna ways. But that has always been the norm also, hasnt it?? I think I am turning into an old fart worry-wart.
By the way, look at the header pic today--those are The Glimmer Twins, for sure. From that pic, all seems fine. The Rolling Fucking Stones, yeah. |
|
|
| Jumacfly |
yes, it s clearly impro! hard to do better than atlantic city 89 in term of solo for keith!
About Ronnie, he plays very sober on this tour, but plays, there s an evident different sound due to a low Chuck on the mix...my girlfriend said after the babylon dvd : "that s cool but there s not enough guitars!" that s why, depsite the muddy stadium sound, i enjoyed more this tour!in bercy Ronnie was beautiful on love in vain but very limited on CYHMK..so,"hits and miss" is a very good definition for the 2002/2003 tour guys! |
|
|
| T&A |
good conversation everyone...glad to see folks aren't afraid of "telling like it is" lest they be roasted (which happens on some of the other boards).
Definitely more hit and miss - not entire shows, mind you, but on different songs, different nights. Keith used to be a cornerstone - and now at times he just disappears. Very unexpected development on this tour.
Savage - regading Roseland CYHMK - I gotta disagree with you. Although RW's use of feedback is somewhat inspiring on this version - I find this particular version to be perhaps the worst I've heard - it's almost a trainwreck at times all throughout....Keith screws up several times early and RW's solo is completely off the songs rhythm. During the middle part, KR disappears altogether and practically nobody is playing at all at times. I can't believe the Stones chose this version for their video on rs.com. I think the best version out of the 30 or so I've heard is from Miami.
|
|
|
| steel driving hammer |
Were so spoiled w/ the Stones.
Even on a "Mis Night" their still the best show on the road. |
|
|
| Jumping Jack |
They have been hit or miss since the 70s. The highs aren't as high any more and the lows aren't as low, but perhaps a bit more often.
Sadly, they have no competition and nothing to prove any more. I wish they would tape more shows or do more PPVs because they seem to play quite well when they know it is being recorded for history. |
|
|
| Joey |
" Sadly, they have no competition and nothing to prove any more. "
WTF ?!?!?!?!?!
Please see " The Who " !!!!!
The Stones have always competed against The Who and they always will ........................................ it brings out the best in both bands ( sort of like Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali brought out the best in each other ) .
" I LOVE Competition Ronnie "
Jacky ! |
|
|
| Honky Tonk Man |
I have to say that i prefer Ronnie drunk. That may sound awful, with his health and everything, but he has lost a spark. Playing the drunken bufoon was part of his character. He'd being like ever since he was a teenager and i must say, the twinkle in his eye has gone. In the recent interviews i have seen, he seems so much more serious!
Can't Ronnie just get drunk for interviews? That will do me!
Alex |
|
|
| steel driving hammer |
Well I agree, Detroit was smoky grey, nothing like the good old days...
Go take the treasure where you find it. |
|
|
| Joey |
" Go take the treasure where you find it. "
<------ www.HoweMilitary.com
|
|
|
| marko |
Well keith really started being lazy around no security tour.He started this tour very good,actually,many shows from
last year,remains me of their best days.The real laziness
started in Australia,i say,tour is TOO LONG!
Then,to be honest,they didnīt have this much hit and miss shows before 99 tour,or this tour.
It was before more like 2-4 "bad" shows per tour,or continent.For an example.Bad shows from voodoo lounge tour were
Pittsburgh,,,,micks voice was sounding too "hard"...?
Dallas,,too slow tempo
nearly all aussie shows,all just under 2hrs,lazy again there?
tokyo 9.3.95
sheffield-95
in 1981,only few first ones were REALLY bad,after Diego or LA,that band was on their finest form.
From 82 i remember 2 bad shows,Vienna&Turin(1st day)
1990 was boring,but there actually wasnīt bad shows.
1989,killer shows thru september&october,got tired in novemeber.got tighter to AC shows.
in the old days,like in/from 1972-1978,bad shows was On
because they were too drunk,or,messed up from cocaine.You just should hear Munster-76.
Best thing about the licks tour is:they sound FRESH!to be
honest,they should tour only usa&europe. |
|
|
| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
About the boy Ronnie being serious -
When the BBC interviewed him in 2002, before they headed out, they said he was their favorite Stone because he still had that spark but wasn't falling over himself anymore. And I think he's serious in most interviews because they always go "Well, gosh, you've just kicked booze, which you've loved! All your life! How are you?" He's still got plenty of antics runnin' around. When Keith sang "Yeah, I got them fuckin' blues" on "Thru And Thru" in Boston, Ronnie rushed out from back stage, put his hand over his mouth and pointed at Keith, then ran back, and got a hearty round of applause.
Keith could use a good kick in his arse to get him moving, because everyone *knows* he's still incredible, but Joey, sad to say, the Who aren't filling stadiums anymore. The Stones are. They *know* they're the greatest live act currently on tour. They just don't feel like proving it after all the glowing reviews from the papers in '02-'03 came out.
Hopefully we'll get a few "on" nights in the club shows that'll carry over.
Grr... It's sad to look back on the beginning of this tour, when everyone was so psyched about how they were playing, and watching it kinda sputter out.
-tSYX --- Yeah, you got *bah dah dah dah* satin shoes... |
|
|
| Jumping Jack |
Joey,
Watcha think about Pete joining the Stones as a third guitar? He'd certainly push KR a little. Maybe even cover a few Who songs instead of shit like Love Train, LARS, and those suck ass ballads they have been playing. Take it up a level or two. |
|
|
| macawber |
like T & A said,good job to everyone for telling the truth.
on some of the stones boards[who shall remain nameless]if you asked "hows the tour going?" you'd hear about how keith is god and the stones rule..blah blah blah.
you have to wonder about keiths hands and if that has anything to do with his playing on any given night.
those fingers gotta HURT.
all in all a good tour but i think its the last one you'll see on this scale. |
|
|
| marko |
I really hope,that its the last one on this scale!Only
arenas&theatres. |
|
|
| sammy davis jr. |
On the HBO show. Ronnie is seen doing some "tapping" on the fretboard ala Van Halen.....and it sounds rediculous. I think the guy WAS better when he was fucked up. Keith should stop playing the same 2 lead riffs over and over. He's not a lead player. |
|
|
| Joey |
" Joey,
Watcha think about Pete joining the Stones as a third guitar? He'd certainly push KR a little. Maybe even cover a few Who songs instead of shit like Love Train, LARS, and those suck ass ballads they have been playing. Take it up a level or two. "
No !
|
|
CHAT
ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [
RESTROOMS]