| December 15th, 2004 11:46 PM |
|
|
| Lavendar |
I'm dying! |
| December 16th, 2004 11:39 AM |
|
|
| Fiji Joe |
Lou Gehrig?...no no no...Babe friggin Ruth!...the son of German immigrants (as was Lou I know)...Ruth by the way, was placed in an orphange by his German parents even though they were obviously still alive...In the American tradition, the castout Ruth went on to become the greatest sports figure the world has ever seen... I hope Babe never sent his rotten parents a damn dime!
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
| December 16th, 2004 11:48 AM |
|
|
| Riffhard |
Hey guys knock it off with regards to bashing Germans. I have alot of German heritage in my family. Actully,I'm Irish,English,and German. So that means I'm a drunk who can't cook that wants to rule the world.
Yup! That pretty much sums it up!
Riffhard |
| December 16th, 2004 11:52 AM |
|
|
| Joey |
quote:
Lavendar wrote:
I'm dying!
I am currently sitting in my own feces |
| December 16th, 2004 01:16 PM |
|
|
| egon |
Joey,
one word: Severina Vuckovic
another word: Google
A 3rd word: kazaalite
I tell you, this could be the next paris hilton!
[Edited by egon] |
| December 16th, 2004 01:45 PM |
|
|
| Joey |
quote:
egon wrote:
Joey,
one word: Severina Vuckovic
another word: Google
A 3rd word: kazaalite
I tell you, this could be the next paris hilton!
[Edited by egon]
Thanks Egon ..............................
Hey , what we drinking this weekend ?!?!
Heinekens ?!?! .............." Jaggerbombs " ?!?!?!
Now that Baby Joshy is drinking again perhaps HE can join us .
Developing ..............................
" Stones Rule You Punk Ass Bastards ! "
Cazzie & Fritsch ! � |
| December 16th, 2004 02:36 PM |
|
|
| egon |
joey,
i smell heineken in the air....
i smell it everywhere!
[Edited by egon] |
| December 16th, 2004 03:33 PM |
|
|
| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Hey guys knock it off with regards to bashing Germans. I have alot of German heritage in my family.
Riffhard
 |
| December 17th, 2004 08:59 AM |
|
|
| caro |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Don't provoke, my lady. Your station in life is to arouse. And you do with posts like that.
Glad I aroused you. Let me take advantage of that momentary state of euphory to brainwash you : Germans today are more than careful not to repeat the past. Hell, before the reunification, the kids in West Berlin would learn about the crimes of the nazis even before they learned the signification of the wall that surrounded their city. I don't think there's a country in Europe that's more devoted to eliminating racism and intolerance. I should know : I was born in Germany. Hope that irritates you, hehe! |
| December 17th, 2004 09:38 AM |
|
|
| Joey |
quote:
caro wrote:
I should know : I was born in Germany. Hope that irritates you, hehe!
|
| December 17th, 2004 12:31 PM |
|
|
| gypsy |
quote:
Joey wrote:
Maybe jb will have a bidet installed in your kick-ass Nebraska trailer for Christmas. He is your best friend afterall. |
| December 17th, 2004 09:08 PM |
|
|
| sirmoonie |
quote:
caro wrote:
Germans today are more than careful not to repeat the past. Hell, before the reunification, the kids in West Berlin would learn about the crimes of the nazis even before they learned the signification of the wall that surrounded their city. I don't think there's a country in Europe that's more devoted to eliminating racism and intolerance.
You are very intelligent Caro, but you have just recited what the liberal media and people like Riffhard WANT you to believe. It doesn't comport with reality. Which makes sense, because hundreds, if not thousands of years of history's momentum don't get turned on a dime very easily. Check, e.g., current U.S. efforts in Iraq.
As one of Germany's most beloved leaders, Hans Frank, said in an pathetic, last ditch attempt to horse-trade his life for the lives of millions of others: "Germany's shame will last a thousand years."
Fuck that. If this board is an example, and sadly it is, Germany's shame didn't even last a generation. |
| December 17th, 2004 10:33 PM |
|
|
| Riffhard |
Hey Moonie don't drag me into this little pissing match. I did not say a damned word about this,and by the way,I have never ever been accused of carrying the liberal media's water. That's a new one. There are also many people on this very board that think the same way I do. Yet you seem to call me out simply because I called a spade a spade with regards to Gasx3. The truth about that thread though is that I was not slamming the board,but rather lamenting the fact that I no longer feel welcome posting there. In fact if you go back and read that thread in it's entirety it's very obvious that many people feel the exact same way that I do. I just put it down in writing.
Riffhard |
| December 18th, 2004 12:48 AM |
|
|
| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Hey Moonie don't drag me into this little pissing match. I did not say a damned word about this,and by the way,I have never ever been accused of carrying the liberal media's water. That's a new one. There are also many people on this very board that think the same way I do. Yet you seem to call me out simply because I called a spade a spade with regards to Gasx3. The truth about that thread though is that I was not slamming the board,but rather lamenting the fact that I no longer feel welcome posting there. In fact if you go back and read that thread in it's entirety it's very obvious that many people feel the exact same way that I do. I just put it down in writing.
Riffhard
Discussions of inherently genocidal cultures ain't "little pissing" matches, at least not to real Americans.
You "dragged" yourself into this one, Horst.
Hey, whooooooah, hold on though. I think you are on to something here, Riffhard,...........a segue into more GASX3 bashing! How fucking original!
"Ya could have started another thread with that one ya fucking genius, Ronnie!" |
| December 18th, 2004 01:18 AM |
|
|
| Riffhard |
Dude,I really have a tough time understanding your recent anger directed towards me moonie. I have never once shown any towards you. I am certainly not about to reopen any discussions about Gasx3. I've had my say on that subject and I don't back down from any of it. I have let that go. However,I certainly did not mean to get you so riled up. I have met you and you seem to be a nice enough guy and I'd gladly hoist more beers with you again. For that matter I'd hoist a few with Keno as well!
The internet is funny thing. When you can't see the person on the other end it's easy to assume some kind of malice. None has ever been intended on my end.
As for the pissing match comment. I was merely pointing out the argument between you and Too Tough. Not the history of nazi atrocities.
Enjoy every sandwich moonie!
Your cyber friend,
Riffhard |
| December 18th, 2004 06:50 PM |
|
|
| TooTough |
Moonie, enough.
You haven�t answered my question at all. You bitch about Germans in a thread about the new Stones� album and tour. Unbelievable. I really don�t want to know what you write if the thread is about "The Stones in Germany" or "German Stones shows". I always thought this was a board run by Stones fans, regardless of nationality or religion etc.
I just wonder what you tell your children, when they ask you about other countries. When they ask you about Germany, what do you answer?
"Just call them Huns, Krauts, Nazis; the men are all named �Horst or Siegfried or Fritz�, even if they feel European or feel like world-citizens - even if they are anti-nazi and anti-racist - they are not. Don�t you ever believe them!"
you wrote >As one of Germany's most beloved leaders,
>Hans Frank, said in an pathetic, last ditch attempt to >horse-trade his life for the lives of millions of >others: "Germany's shame will last a thousand years."
You hit me badly with this one. You did this on purpose as you always write things. Hans Frank was the Gouvernour of the occupied Poland, a brutal racist and antisemitic through and through. And once again: you throw in a name of a Nazi and tell that he�s "one of Germany's most beloved leaders". In a Stones messageboard! Just to offend. You don�t say when he was "beloved" (he never was, by the way, he was mostly unnkown until N�rnberg 1946). Germany in the past? Or now? And once again: beloved by whom? By me, by my kids, the people in Bayern, by the Germans in general? This stinks. You really offended me.
I�m a teacher (not English as you can see), but history. And normally I don�t give a shit to tell you how I teach my kids. But be sure that every year on May 8th I thank the US, the Russians and the Brits to have freed us from Hitler. That does not quite fit in your black and white scheme about life, right? But you got to live with this one.
And: you are the last one to tell anything personal about me. But in 1993 I visited Auschwitz. I could have easily drove around that little town, but I went there with 3 other friends (all teachers now). And what were the Krauts doing? Watching this unbelievable place, silently. And telling the children today.
Having fun by throwing around stereotypes isn�t my ideal of a Stones board. If it�s not Germany, it�s France or Iraq or gays or (XY). That�s hard to stand.
I think I�m gonna come back to this board when the new album is under way. Then postings like yours from the last days are buried under good news. |
| December 18th, 2004 10:12 PM |
|
|
| caro |
quote:
You are very intelligent Caro, but you have just recited what the liberal media and people like Riffhard WANT you to believe. It doesn't comport with reality. Which makes sense, because hundreds, if not thousands of years of history's momentum don't get turned on a dime very easily. Check, e.g., current U.S. efforts in Iraq.
As one of Germany's most beloved leaders, Hans Frank, said in an pathetic, last ditch attempt to horse-trade his life for the lives of millions of others: "Germany's shame will last a thousand years."
Fuck that. If this board is an example, and sadly it is, Germany's shame didn't even last a generation.
I know better than to rely on the liberal media on a subject like this one. What I said in my previous post comes from personal experience. If you want to discuss the "soul" of a country, I think there's no other reliable source of information than that. Maybe election results weigh in too. But that's about it.
From having spent most of my life with people who traveled around in Europe, I know that it takes at least 5 years of living & working in a country to be able to discuss this country's "soul". Now, I have lived several years in Berlin, I've got friends & family there. Most importantly, I've spent most of my life in France, so I have an outside perspective on my birth country. I don't think anything you could have read, seen or heard about Germany can compete with that. In other words, I don't really have any points to make, except this one : On this particular subject, I know better than you.
But I can elaborate a bit. Your "hundreds, if not thousands of years of history's momentum" make no sense to me. You know how mobile the borders were in Europe in the past centuries, so the whole idea of a millenary German people is flawed. If anything, Nazism had roots in the 19th century : nationalism, racism (in the form that the nazis have promoted it), and that whole romantic imagery were created then. Also, my personal point of view is that trying to analyze a people's specificity over a period of more than 200 years, is both useless and dangerous. I agree that you don't change a people easily & quickly. But it's been 60 years since WWII. That's three generations.
Then you're talking about "shame". There again, I'm kind of lost in your logic. I don't think shame is a good way to durably learn the lessons from nazism (at least for the majority of Germans who weren�t even born when the war ended). Today, this is a political issue (i.e. How do we avoid that this country does that again?) And IMO, political issues should by all means be devoid of any strong feelings such as guilt, pride, hate or whatever. Otherwise, people will sooner or later throw their intelligence out the window and blindly follow the first asshole who appeals to their feelings. But since you mentioned it, I'll say that you got the timeline wrong when you say "Germany's shame didn't even last a generation". I'd say that in the first years after the war, the tendency was more to hide the past than to be ashamed of it. Then came the hippie movement, which brought the subject of WWII back to the table. But the hippies were more about starting something new than about feeling guilt. So as far as I can tell, shame has only been a really present feeling in Germany since ~1980 (because of the film "Shoah" and some other things). Maybe that guilt feeling is slowly fading away right now, I'm not too sure about that.
Since I was born in 1980, I can only talk about the last 25 years in Germany. Like I said, the memory of WWII is absolutely omnipresent in Germany. Too Tough gave you some examples. It's just everywhere : in books, exhibitions, plays, films, ceremonies and conversations. I'd venture to say that 60% of the whole cultural life in Germany references WWII.
What's also not too visible from the outside is the role of the church. I ain't religious myself but I've always admired how the german church is trying to put ideas of tolerance and generosity into action. My uncle is a pastor, and he & my aunt almost never talk about religion. They're much too busy putting together files for asylum seekers and preparing antiracist actions. Since the church is still relatively powerful in Germany, its message of tolerance really does influence the german society.
Where do you take your assumption from that the Germans have become nazis again? Are you talking about the political system? About the racist actions that are reported on the news? There are neo-nazi movements, sure. But they don't match with the descriptions you've made. I'll compare this to the situation here in France : On one hand, you have the good old French xenophoby, that allowed our local fascist Le Pen to get 18(*excuse me while I bang my head on the wall*)% of the votes in 2002. In Germany, the percentage of these "we-wanna-stay-among-ourselves" voters is much, much lower. Then, on the other hand, you have France's much publicized anti-Semitism problem, which is a mixture of media frenzy and reality : some young people in the poor districts are looking for a way to vent their frustrations, and they take the Israel/Palestinians conflict as a symbol for their own situation. IMO (and this is really only my personal opinion), the neonazi gangs in former East Germany follow the same kind of principle. I would see it more as a way to vent their frustration than a real desire to start WWII all over again. When you give people no hope to build a promising future (and these guys really have nothing to look forward to), they start getting stupid ideas. I'm not defending them, just pointing out that it's neither the same kind of people, nor the same kind of situation as in 1933.
The one point that I'd concede is that Germany, as a nation, is not in a good state, and that this might become a serious problem someday. To compare with France again : here, people get some sort of serene, happy satisfaction from the fact that they're French, and that France is a beautiful country, and that it's always been like that. Germany, on the other hand, doesn't really exist as a nation : the former East and West part are still very different from one another, and there's a lot of animosity between the two. The relation to the past is kind of overshadowed by the memory of WWII. For fear of being considered as nationalists, the Germans don't protect their culture & language from the globalization as much as other countries. So I sometimes get the feeling that the only thing that holds Germans together is the economic growth rate. But others may have a different opinion on this.
"...for he who writes BS on message boards
Will be doomed to read endless replies." |
| December 19th, 2004 05:21 PM |
|
|
| glencar |
"the whole idea of a millenary German people is flawed."
They made hats? Who knew? |
| December 20th, 2004 02:12 PM |
|
|
| Fiji Joe |
Caro wrote:
"Germans today are more than careful not to repeat the past. Hell, before the reunification, the kids in West Berlin would learn about the crimes of the nazis even before they learned the signification of the wall that surrounded their city. I don't think there's a country in Europe that's more devoted to eliminating racism and intolerance"
And there is your problem in a nutshell folks...there is something inherently flawed with the whole notion of forced tolerance...the germans have gone completely out of their damn heads trying to convince the world that they are no longer the same people who once exterminated 6 million people just because they smelled of motza balls and raw pork...Consequently, the Germans have bent over backwards to accomodate and placate muslims so as to avoid having to confront their past...Can you appreciate the irony here people?...the Germans now foster and encourage a culture and race that is, at least as the leaders of that culture would have it, the most racist, intolerant and destructive culture on the planet...Germans, it is ok...there is nothing wrong with hating and not tolerating a culture and religion that has sworn the death of western civilization...you are, after all, a part of western civilization
So Deutschland Erwache!!!..we could use a little of that intolerance that you were once so good at... |
| December 20th, 2004 02:26 PM |
|
|
| Joey |
Here's a group that I wish would literally STAY in Germany :
|
| December 21st, 2004 09:48 AM |
|
|
| caro |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
And there is your problem in a nutshell folks...there is something inherently flawed with the whole notion of forced tolerance...the germans have gone completely out of their damn heads trying to convince the world that they are no longer the same people who once exterminated 6 million people just because they smelled of motza balls and raw pork...Consequently, the Germans have bent over backwards to accomodate and placate muslims so as to avoid having to confront their past...Can you appreciate the irony here people?...the Germans now foster and encourage a culture and race that is, at least as the leaders of that culture would have it, the most racist, intolerant and destructive culture on the planet...Germans, it is ok...there is nothing wrong with hating and not tolerating a culture and religion that has sworn the death of western civilization...you are, after all, a part of western civilization
So Deutschland Erwache!!!..we could use a little of that intolerance that you were once so good at...
I'll answer the same thing to you as to Moonie : live in Germany for five years, then you'll have a real opinion on that kind of things. This comment...
quote:
Consequently, the Germans have bent over backwards to accomodate and placate muslims so as to avoid having to confront their past...
...would make most Muslims in Germany laugh, I think.
Actually, I agree that there's something forced (and sometimes much too politically correct) about these efforts to promote tolerance (not only in Germany, BTW). But I think they're still the best way to go. All those stupid & clumsy debates (about whether headscarfes should be allowed in schools, etc) are still useful, IMO, because they keep bringing up the subject of what it is that defines a country. People have a tendency to forget that their country can (and should) change under the influence of ALL the people who live there.
But I guess we have no chance to ever agree on that topic anyway. |
| December 21st, 2004 09:51 AM |
|
|
| Fiji Joe |
Dang Caro...Does living six years in Germany count for anything?...How about my mother being German?...Do we have to agree with you?...Because I'd rather not |
| December 21st, 2004 09:57 AM |
|
|
| caro |
Oh, you did? Well I take it back then. I'm still amazed about your comment that Germany bends over backwards to accomodate Muslims, though. But no, if you've actually lived there, then you don't have to agree with me. |
| December 21st, 2004 10:22 AM |
|
|
| Joey |
quote:
caro wrote:
Oh, you did? Well I take it back then. I'm still amazed about your comment that Germany bends over backwards to accomodate Muslims, though. But no, if you've actually lived there, then you don't have to agree with me.
Caro ..................................
Are you really a female ?!?! |
| December 21st, 2004 11:18 AM |
|
|
| caro |
Joey... Doesn't it show in my careful use of alliterations? In the feminine swing that determines the placement of my commas? In the way (that) I never know whether I should use the pronoun "that", or leave it out? Don't tell me you didn't notice, you dork!
|
| December 21st, 2004 11:18 AM |
|
|
| Fiji Joe |
Caro wrote:
"I'm still amazed about your comment that Germany bends over backwards to accomodate Muslims, though."
But they do...it's only behind their backs, over the dinner table, that they curse them...which is what I'm getting at...I find that kind of latent hatred far more dangerous than open dialougue where cultuaral differences are discussed and yes, sometimes challenged...and I will telll you...anyone who tells you that ALL cultures and viewpoints must be respected is a damn fool... |
| December 21st, 2004 12:08 PM |
|
|
| gypsy |
quote:
Joey wrote:
Caro ..................................
Are you really a female ?!?!
Yes. And she works at a Starbucks in a Barnes & Noble in some God-awful place in Nebraska.
She has this one really creepy customer who comes in every night and just sits there pretending to read those Monster Truck magazines, but all the while he is gazing at her. He bought some cheesecake one time, and she got him so flustered, he dropped it in his lap. She felt sorry for him, of course, and helped brush it off of his lap. He STILL has an erection...and it's been two or three weeks since the cheesecake incident. |
| December 21st, 2004 02:00 PM |
|
|
| glencar |
A 3 week erection & he still can't do anything with it? LOL |
| December 21st, 2004 02:12 PM |
|
|
| gypsy |
quote:
glencar wrote:
A 3 week erection & he still can't do anything with it? LOL
No, he can't. He is a CORKY! |
|
CHAT
ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [
RESTROOMS]