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| sasca |
Looking in the archives, I see some of you believe Mick Taylor should be credited as co-writer of some Stones songs. I think the same for Brian and Bill during the Brian period but I don't know enough about the Taylor period to judge which on which songs he should receive credit. Enlighten me? |
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| T.CentralScrutinizer |
"Time Waits For No One". |
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| sirmoonie |
All that jazz at the end of CYHMK. |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
Taylor should really be credited entirely to "Time Waits For No One". He wrote it.
The only Stones original he got credit for was "Ventilator Blues" (as Jagger/Richards/Taylor). He had a great deal to do with the end of "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" (his solo, as it makes the end of that song - however, the first section is pure Richards, which makes it debatable) and co-wrote "Sway" with Mick Jagger. Later on he co-wrote "Fingerprint File" (at the very least giving it that funky bass line, which may or may not deserve credit) with Mick as well.
You will hear him credited to *everything*, however. I remember one of the earliest times I was on this board, someone was claiming Taylor wrote "Angie", "It's Only Rock'n'Roll" (which doesn't have its real co-author listed either... Guess who...), "Gimme Shelter", "Rocks Off", and basically every single good Stones song from 1969 to 1974.
Which is utter crap. Mick and Keith do have some talent, I think...
-tSYX --- Hey, Mr. tambourine man... |
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| sammy davis jr. |
I believe he wrote the melody of the sax line to Waiting On A Friend also. |
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| Keefness |
'Waitin' On A Friend'? not sure about that one..I read that was a Keith tune.
But 'Moonlight Mile' was Taylor & Mick..even the album credits say keef was not on that track.
Charlie didn't play drums on the studio version of "Can't Always Get What You Want" either..it was Jimmy Miller sounding just like Charlie.
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
Oh, that's right. "Moonlight Mile" really should be Jagger/Richards/Taylor - it stemmed from Keith's "Japanese Thing" demo, but the two Micks finish it.
(Damn. I feel this sudden surge of Irish anger reading back over this. I can't quite pinpoint why... I'd better go smack somebody to make myself feel better... there we go.)
-tSYX --- I'm ridin' sister and I'm dreamin'... |
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| 100 Years Ago |
wasn't Winter, a Mick and Mick collaboration as well? I don't think Keith is on that one either
in fact alot of GHS sounds like Mick T. could've gotten co-writing credit (100 Years Ago & Silver Train come to mind) |
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| sirmoonie |
Thats definately him ruining the second half of 100 Years Ago, just like he did with CYHMK.
Taylor was singlehandely responsible for "The Great Stones Malais" of the mid to late 70s, when The Drive turned into The Ehhh..., and subversive movements like the Eagles were able to skulk into the national consciousness. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Well, I won't go as far as using the word "ruin", but The Stones did teeter dangerosly close to becoming a "Jam" band during the Taylor years....
And IMO, that ain't really a good thing. Too much meandering, and noodling for me.
Just smash me over the head for three minutes and polish me off with a kick to the groin please. |
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| sasca |
Brian and Bill:
Its difficult to know where 'arranging' stops and 'composing' begins. Still, I think Brian was co-writer of 'Paint It Black' and '2000 LYFH', which the Stones admit would not exist without his contributions. Bill probably also deserves a credit for 'Paint It Black'. If even a tenth of the 'Ruby Tuesday' stories are true, then Brian was co-writer. And JJ Flash was a group composition - Bill came up with the main riff and developed it with Brian and Charlie. Then there are the likes of 'Lady Jane' and 'Under My Thumb'. Its known that Brian and Bill would throw in ideas during a song's development and Oldham has said that Brian saved many of the Stones tracks in the mid-sixties. |
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| sirmoonie |
One of my fav Stones moments (I'm serious) is after that wank-arama, it slows down like a huge wave that never quite crests - "please excuse me while I haaaaidddde uhwayie...callll me Lazybones...." and onwards.
Its almost like it got cut and pasted in at mix by a still Exile vibed-up Jagger, just get the tune back to some country-blues, instead of whatever the hell thats called that Taylor was doing. Flammbe'd chicken dicking? Retro fret spanking? I dunno, but it really friggin' blows. |
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| 100 Years Ago |
Mick Taylor did some amazing music with the Stones, both released and unreleased. His work with them has a subtlety and melodic sophistication that sparked some creative moments that were jaw-dropping both live and studio
of course, there would've been no Some Girls if Mick T stayed, that album needed the Woody/Keef bump n grind riffs, that Mick T would not have been able to supply |
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| Mathijs |
Taylor wrote or partly wrote:
Sway, Can't you Hear Me Knocking, Moonlight Mile, Let it Loose, Ventilator Blues, Stop Breaking Down, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Fingerprint File.
Give aways for his song writing are mostly the lyrics. Taylor's lyrics are less straight forward than Jagger's, and mostly seem to deal with the vaguer side of live -see Sway, Moonlight Mile and Winter (which even has a Stoney Canyon -Taylor's 1972 US home- remark). Other songs feature chordal structures which are different than the Jagger/Richards structures: Let it Loose with the C#dim9 chord, 100 years with the Dminor/C/Bflat structure.
Mathijs |
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| sirmoonie |
"Partly wrote" is correct for some. None are solely his.
Robert Johnson wrote Stop Breaking Down. When the Stones take credit for it, Taylor is listed as an author, but so is everyone, including Charlie.
I disagree that Taylor wrote the lyrics to Sway and Moonlight Mile. I'm not sure if Taylor had anything to do with Sway in a writing sense, music or lyrics. Its all Jagger. |
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| sonicrock |
no way taylor wrote anything listen to his own studio album and you ll se some people just can t ...that s it. |
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| Mathijs |
Jagger did admit in 1995 that Sway and Winter were Taylor's songs, and that Taylor was involved for a great deal in the writing of Moonlight Mile and Time Waits For No One. When asked in 97, Ron wood felt they would never play Sway live as "it is Mick Taylor's song".
Mathijs
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| sasca |
I suppose someone who had difficulty writing songs on his own could have ideas which a songwriter like Mick could work into a song, resulting in a collaboration. On the other hand, the fact that certain chord sequences seem typical of Mick Taylor may not mean he co-wrote them. A musician may habitually fall back on certain patterns while practicing - since Mick Taylor would have been doing this around the other Stones, they may have been influenced by his patterns (consciously or unconsciously), resulting in songs unlike their other compositions. |
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| sammy davis jr. |
Well Sir Moonie, one man's trash is another man's treasure. I happen to like the "wankfest" you say Taylor is doing in 100 Years Ago. It's fucking brilliant. It fits the song perfectly. I have to agree about the breakdown in the song though- it's way cool. |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
Jagger did admit in 1995 that Sway and Winter were Taylor's songs, and that Taylor was involved for a great deal in the writing of Moonlight Mile and Time Waits For No One. When asked in 97, Ron wood felt they would never play Sway live as "it is Mick Taylor's song".
Mathjis, I've never failed you yet. First, that's Mick playing guitar on Highway Chile. Second, Jagger and/or Ronnie saying they won't play Sway because its a Taylor tune only means they didn't want to do it live for same reason they were hesitant to do CYHMK - they thought it required Taylor stuff. Doesn't mean he wrote the song. At all.
Plus you know as well as I do that Sway is a revamp of another classic Stones song, done when Taylor wasn't even around. |
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| 100 Years Ago |
what is song is Sway a revamp of?
curious and drunk in texas |
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| Mathijs |
Sirmoonie, I don't know what you want to prove, but Highway Child is so typically Keith, I don't understand how you can think it is Mick. Second, the songs was recorded at a time when Mick couldn't even play the simplest chords yet, and you think he can do the Berry double stops?
Ron Wood said they wouldn't play it in a "Jagger doesn't want it as it is Taylor's song" way. But, they did rehearse it a few times in 2002, so Jagger apperently wanted to try it again.
And I don't know as well as you do what song originates Sway. Which song do you mean?
Mathijs
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| beer |
I gotta agree with mathijs, Highway Child sounds like Keith completely. I seriously doubt Jagger could play that guitar part on his best day, let alone in '68 when he was just figuring out the basics. Watch Jagger strum acoustic in the film One Plus One/Sympathy For The Devil. He stumbles through the basic chords. |
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| Mathijs |
Further, in his new book Bill mentions that Till The Next Goodbye, Time is On Our Side and If You Really Want To Be My Friend are co-written by Taylor, but he never received the credits.
Mathijs |
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| Mathijs |
With Time Is On Our Side I mean Time Waits For No One of course.
Mathijs |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
Hmm. On the boot I have of "Highway Child", it sounds suspiciously like Mick is 'running' his voice to keep up with the tune. I play bass and as a result am 'running' all the goddamn time when I sing. In fact, the only real player I've ever seen not be reduced to trying to catch up with their own song if they're playing a lead or a bass line is McCartney.
Then again, there's all this talk - was it recorded twice? Once in '68 and once in '72? By '72, Mick was learning all he could from Keith and to a lesser extent Taylor and did play a decent enough part on "Sway" to prove that he could play an electric. In '68, everyone knew he couldn't play a note, including him.
The recording I have is just guitar and drums. I know it's not Charlie on the drums - the sound doesn't fit Charlie at all. Far too wild and all over the kit to be Charlie, who prefers a kind of constant jazz overdrive style with that 'machine-gun snare', I think Rolling Stone called it. It's probably Jimmy Miller. If Keith ever got wind of this song I think he'd have liked it enough to put it on an album. It would have shown up on Goat's Head Soup if not Exile.
As for them not playing "Sway", I think Taylor is part of the reason - the other part is it's another song where Mick played guitar and had a string backing. Keith hates having both of these things. They probably rehearsed it and Keith said "Well, that didn't work! Onward, Ronald!" and Ronnie'd write it down and that'd be the end of it.
And yeah, Taylor co-wrote "Sway". Not the lyrics, but the music, certainly.
Taylor wasn't a big lyricist. His lyrics in "Time Waits For No One" border on what Harrison was doing at the time - mystic mumbo-jumbo... although it was mystic mumbo-jumbo co-written with Ronnie.
Enlighten us further, Ronnie-kenobi-san!
-tSYX --- Yeaahhh I'm the tax-mahhhn... |
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| F505 |
Bill mentions that Till The Next Goodbye, Time is On Our Side and If You Really Want To Be My Friend are co-written by Taylor, but he never received the credits.
But on the other side Bill is not a very reliable source. Claims to have co-written Stones-classics. The same man who wrote such classics as "Oui, oui je suis un rockstar"
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| sasca |
But if you follow that logic, Lennon couldn't have written 'Come Together' because he wrote '(Forgive me) My Little Flower Princess'.
[Edited by sasca] |
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| Mathijs |
These arguements mean bollocks. The man who wrote Brown Sugar also wrote Let's Work, it all depends who you throw your ideas at. If Taylor did his 1979 solo album with the Stones, it would habe been a Stones' classic -just as Ronnie's I've Got My Own Album to do: a Stones'classic.
Mathijs |
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