| November 28th, 2005 07:33 PM |
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| Mel Belli |
Was just listening to the pair of ABB special edition tracks - "Under the Radar," "We Don't Wanna Go Home."
It seems to me they're both 100% Jagger tracks, and the thing that struck me is that Mick lately has a penchant - or a weakness, if you prefer - for stop-time transitions in his songwriting.
Both of these new tracks have them, as do "Dangerous Beauty," "Streets of Love," and "Let Me Down Slow." "Blind Leading the Blind" from "Alfie" has one too. Then there's "Don't Stop" and "Keys to Your Love," as well as Goddess tracks like "Hideaway" and "Brand New Set of Rules."
Sometimes the stops feel natural; other times they're like whiplash.
Thoughts? |
| November 28th, 2005 07:47 PM |
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| deuce |
Hey, I had never noticed that before.
It works well in 'Radar' in my opinion |
| November 28th, 2005 09:14 PM |
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| _Boomy_ |
Yes, I have noticed this.
Mick aside, doesn't "Infamy" also have some sort of a "stop" in it? |
| November 29th, 2005 12:19 AM |
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| poor immigrant |
I always noticed that MOTHER OF A MAN from WANDERING SPIRIT and OUT OF CONTROL from B2B have pretty much the EXACT same stop w/vocal melody at the end of the chorus parts. Check it out! |
| November 29th, 2005 02:37 AM |
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
I think it fits in quite nicely in "Blind Leading The Blind"
Thats a good track |
| November 29th, 2005 03:04 AM |
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| Child of the Moon |
Excellent observation. I also hadn't thought of that before. I wonder if this is a more recent thing, or if we can trace it back further... |
| November 29th, 2005 03:10 AM |
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| Jumacfly |
it sounds quite similar on under the radar and dangerous beauty.
100% Mick!
good point Mel  .
[Edited by Jumacfly] |
| November 29th, 2005 03:14 AM |
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| MidnightRambler |
I definitely noticed it in the bonus tracks...but in every appearance its made in ABB..I've liked it. "Infamy"..it works well..."Let Me Down Slow" is perfect. I kinda enjoy when he adds that---it really makes the listener give a closer listen to it when the music just STOPS...then come back again. It's catchy |
| November 29th, 2005 03:15 AM |
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
Its also slightly evident in "Old Habits" |
| November 29th, 2005 10:15 AM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
Child of the Moon wrote:
Excellent observation. I also hadn't thought of that before. I wonder if this is a more recent thing, or if we can trace it back further...
"Hearts for Sale" just sprang to mind. ... Anything before that? |
| November 29th, 2005 11:45 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
I agree, they are both 100% Mick Jagger songs.
Melvin, for dummies like me, what is a "stop-time transition?" Is that illustrated in Under the Radar when Jagger gives a chuckle during a silent moment?
If so, 100 Years Ago has the greatest one at "Call meeee lazy bonesssss......" |
| November 29th, 2005 01:18 PM |
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| Neocon |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
Was just listening to the pair of ABB special edition tracks - "Under the Radar," "We Don't Wanna Go Home."
It seems to me they're both 100% Jagger tracks, and the thing that struck me is that Mick lately has a penchant - or a weakness, if you prefer - for stop-time transitions in his songwriting.
Both of these new tracks have them, as do "Dangerous Beauty," "Streets of Love," and "Let Me Down Slow." "Blind Leading the Blind" from "Alfie" has one too. Then there's "Don't Stop" and "Keys to Your Love," as well as Goddess tracks like "Hideaway" and "Brand New Set of Rules."
Sometimes the stops feel natural; other times they're like whiplash.
Thoughts?
I haven't heard the new tracks, but just glancing at the lyrics to "Under the Radar," I got the sense that keith had a hand in it. Also, to say the songs are 100% Mick seems bold. Many people think "Under the Radar" sounds like Child of The Moon. Infamy has to be Keith. Dangerous Beauty echoes "You Got Me Rocking." The production seems more raw than Mick would prefer. "Let Me Down Slow" is not 100% Mick. Anyway, I admire your confidence!
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| November 29th, 2005 02:16 PM |
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| the good |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
Was just listening to the pair of ABB special edition tracks - "Under the Radar," "We Don't Wanna Go Home."
It seems to me they're both 100% Jagger tracks...
Thoughts?
Jesus! Here we go again! Is everything damn thing on this album all Mick Jagger??? My God. How do you know that, Mel? |
| November 29th, 2005 02:55 PM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
the good wrote:
Jesus! Here we go again! Is everything damn thing on this album all Mick Jagger??? My God. How do you know that, Mel?
Well, one of the clues is ... the stop-time signature! |
| November 29th, 2005 03:00 PM |
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| the good |
Yeah, but you said they are 100% Jagger |
| November 29th, 2005 03:31 PM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
the good wrote:
Yeah, but you said they are 100% Jagger
Not sure I see where I contradicted myself. |
| November 29th, 2005 04:25 PM |
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| Neocon |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
Not sure I see where I contradicted myself.
I guess the previous point is that it is quit a leap to say a start stop James Brown signature points to a song being 100% Mick Jagger. Perhaps that may be a Jagger signature, but so is the riff. Mick and Keith worked the songs up together. The line between arranging and songwriting can be blury.
There is a good reason there is Mickness on most of the tracks. They both write and arrange songs.
So is there a history of start/stop on Keith's work? Arguably "Can You Hear Me Knocking." What about on the album Between the Buttons? My Obsession.
Is there a Keith signature on Dangerous Beauty? Let Me Down Slow? I would suggest an objective take would be yes there is. But we are never fully objective are we?
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| November 29th, 2005 06:18 PM |
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| Soldatti |
Good observation, it's more noticeable on the last recordings. |
| November 29th, 2005 08:48 PM |
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| Neocon |
By the way Rough Justice has a cool stop start. |
| November 29th, 2005 09:36 PM |
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| Bruno Stone |
Out Of Tears has a stop after Ronnie`s slide. |
| November 29th, 2005 10:10 PM |
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| gotdablouse |
hum, I'm not sure a song can be characterized by that rather unremarkable feature, I certainly wouldn't call it the main feature of a song !
DWGH sounds like Keith to me, a cousin to Wannad Hold You ! |
| November 29th, 2005 11:11 PM |
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| the good |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
Not sure I see where I contradicted myself.
The stop time signature is ONE element of the song. It does not mean the thing is ALL Jagger. You seem to think the whole damn album is ALL Jagger. There is virtually NO evidence to support this position except you claiming time and again that most of the tunes SOUND like Jagger. Well, as long as we are playing this game, here's a news falsh for you: we don't won't to go home does NOT sound Like Jagger. It SOUNDS like Richards. 
[Edited by the good] |
| November 29th, 2005 11:29 PM |
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| Mel Belli |
I was fooling around with WDWGH today on guitar, and it's got elements of "Oh No, Not You Again" and "Driving Too Fast," both Jagger songs. If you notice, Keith sticks basically to lead fills, and often plays a lot like he did on "Out of Control," another all-Mick track. |
| November 30th, 2005 12:09 AM |
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| Neocon |
Mel, by saying "Oh No Not You Again" is a Jagger song, do you mean 100%? In the clips of the band playing it Ronnie Wood is showing Mick how to play it. Ronnie has also said publicly how much he enjoyed playing rythym guitar on "Oh No Not You Again."
The line "You're a Beauty, such a cutey, how can I resist"? Are you sure that's Mick's lyric? Keith has suggested that he's helped write the song. Right? Then there was a live version of them playing it as much more blues song. Having taken in all this information I'm not so sure this is totally Jagger song. |
| November 30th, 2005 12:23 AM |
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| Neocon |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
I was fooling around with WDWGH today on guitar, and it's got elements of "Oh No, Not You Again" and "Driving Too Fast," both Jagger songs. If you notice, Keith sticks basically to lead fills, and often plays a lot like he did on "Out of Control," another all-Mick track.
Okay, since I have to stay up all night with my newborn son.... Out of control is not really a jagger song. It is based on a song called "Papa Was a Rolling Stone."
Doesn't Mick see Ronnie as a guy to do solos? Also the dirty production on "Oh No" suggests Keith had some control. Okay, you're saying elements of "Drving Too Fast" and "Oh No" appear in "Dont Wanna Go Home." Lets assume you are right that "Oh No" and "Driving To Fast" are all Mick. So logically "Don't Wanna Go Home" must be Mick. So given the "Dangerous Beauty" riffs similarlity to "You Got Me Rocking" it must be Keith's right? That's your logic. Also the riff to "It Won't Take Long" must be Keith because it's like "Lowdown." Mick doesn't play guitar at all on "She Saw Me Coming" so it must be Keith? But doesn't some of "look What the Cat Dragged in" sound like "Painted Black." Bust out the sitar and play "I know that you like to go out drinking..." The thing is the guys have played together along time so friggin long they overlap. Also a lot of the music so simple that my dog could have write it and it wouldn't suprise me. |
| November 30th, 2005 01:25 AM |
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| the good |
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
I was fooling around with WDWGH today on guitar, and it's got elements of "Oh No, Not You Again" and "Driving Too Fast," both Jagger songs. If you notice, Keith sticks basically to lead fills, and often plays a lot like he did on "Out of Control," another all-Mick track.
Mel, I love ya pal, but what the hell are you talking about? A lot of Stones songs sound alike. That doesn't prove who wrote the thing. |
| November 30th, 2005 09:01 AM |
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| mmdog |
quote:
Neocon wrote:
Mel, by saying "Oh No Not You Again" is a Jagger song, do you mean 100%? In the clips of the band playing it Ronnie Wood is showing Mick how to play it. Ronnie has also said publicly how much he enjoyed playing rythym guitar on "Oh No Not You Again."
The line "You're a Beauty, such a cutey, how can I resist"? Are you sure that's Mick's lyric? Keith has suggested that he's helped write the song. Right? Then there was a live version of them playing it as much more blues song. Having taken in all this information I'm not so sure this is totally Jagger song.
Neocon,
Actually Mick is showing Ronnie how to play it. That's because Ronnie is playing Mick's parts on stage. Jagger is not playing guitar on the song during the tour. Jagger is playing the rythmn on the album version. It's a killer track.
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| November 30th, 2005 10:16 AM |
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| Nellcote |
When The Whip Comes Down has some good start-stop gitar at towards the end, not as long as the break in UTR, but it's there... |
| November 30th, 2005 09:32 PM |
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| Neocon |
quote:
mmdog wrote:
Assuming you are right, if Keith is playing the fills and solo, what is Ronnie playing on the album track? |
| December 1st, 2005 07:23 AM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
Neocon wrote:
Assuming you are right, if Keith is playing the fills and solo, what is Ronnie playing on the album track?
I honestly don't hear Ronnie on that track at all. Credit might be a mistake. |
