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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
Mmmk.
DISC ONE BOOTLEGS:
Beast Of Burden - Fantastic.
Can't Turn You Loose - Tame in comparison to the sloppy Toronto one, but they get into it towards the end and it's really good. It must've sounded fantastic from the audience.
The Jams ("Well Well" and "Extreme Western Grip") - The most utterly forgettable numbers I've heard in ages. Sure, they sound good and all... but forgettable. No riffs. No hooks. Just a jam. Nothing more. Let's hear some real songs coming out of these good but forgettable jams.
DISC TWO:
Thank God "Sympathy" was cut from this concert. It was a disgrace to humankind.
On the B-Stage, I agree with Sammy Davis - Ronnie needs to play his fucking guitar and not fuck around with the audience! Because when he plays it (like on "IORR") the weave goes down *beautifully*! But he doesn't play it! He jumps around and waves! Onstage he does much better because he's figured out when he can do goofy things like that and when he can't, but out on the B-Stage he leaves Keith and Chuck to pick up his slack and gets turned down as a result.
It's a "Keith show". Keith has it down. Keith knows what he's doing. Ronnie's solo during "Monkey Man" is excellent, however, and the one on "Knocking", while not his best, is certainly OK, and an OK "Knocking" solo is generally outstanding.
"Midnight Rambler" is absolutely and positively butchered by the plinking of tiny piano keys in places where they don't belong. The slow section nearly made me throw my shoe at the TV... there's an excellent loooooong growling pause, both Ronnie and Keith have *owned* the song... but this plink-plunking over it has irrevocably damaged the quality. Then, out of nowhere, it comes back, in the one section where it absolutely should not be. If the fact that Chuck didn't sound so good and helpful playing the organ wasn't there, I'd fire him for this rendition alone.
The version of "JJF" here is quite good, Ronnie and Keith both doing a nice job... TURN RONNIE UP! This was pre-ganja-infestation stage, you could tell. Both Keith and Ronnie had their eyes open and alert through this show, cracking jokes with each other while making it work. Later on, you don't see it as much, and the shows break down as a result.
Overall, on some songs Chuck is down a lot while Keith is up a lot - there are even a blissful few numbers where Keith and Ronnie can both be heard distinctly and both take little mini-leads, bringing back the ghost of '75 beautifully. But the numbers that ruin the concert really really really ruin the concert. I don't want to sit through that version of "Rambler" again, because the two guitarists were so *on* and Chuck just *drove his cock into the song's proverbial ass*.
DISC THREE:
Haven't watched yet.
DISC FOUR:
Only watched "Hand Of Fate" to see if my guess was right... and it was!
Sound perfectly imported from another concert! Maybe Ronnie even overdubbed the first section of the song where he had no fucking clue what he was doing, because I don't hear the problem at all. His little mini-solos in the second half were actually pretty good. The first half was a series of quick cuts away from him, when they showed him at all... they had a great camera angle that got Mick, Keith and Charlie, and whenever Ronnie wandered into the picture, they cut to a close-up of someone else. Kudos to the editing team, because the song sounded pretty good. Wish they'd included more junk from this concert, but hey, whatever. I'll watch more on Friday, probably.
OVERALL:
Cool beyond belief.
MICK: Can anyone stop this man?
KEITH: Why can't we have him doing the MSG more often instead of the Fleet '02 "strum and wait for applause"?
RONNIE: Why can't we have more of the Fleet '02 and less "Can I have another joint, Keith?"
CHARLIE: mumblemumblemumbleneedsnothingexceptmaybeahatmumblemumblemumble.
CHUCK LEAVELL: I don't know what to say anymore. He's turned down a little bit in some songs, but in others... gahhhhhhhh, it's a nightmare.
DARRYL: Invisible. Constantly. Do the Stones even have a bass player anymore?
THE BACKUP FOLKS: Cute. But unneeded. I feel bad saying it, because everyone in the little booklet included talks about how great they are... but the Stones are reaching the point where if they threw off the crutches they'd stumble for a few shows, then really start walking again.
-tSYX --- It pick me up and it knocked me down! |
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| gotdablouse |
I'm glad to see you've come back to earth since the "Ronnie at MSG - Birth of a Guitar God" post of last year ;-)
Great post and I'm rather disappointed about Well, Well and EWG not being real songs. Does Mick do any singing?
I must say that the honky tonk plick plucking of Chuck on numbers like MR and WTWCDown is completely tasteless and its unbelievable that grizzled veterans like Mick and Keith would tolerate that kind of crap :-( |
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| scope |
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Great post and I'm rather disappointed about Well, Well and EWG not being real songs. Does Mick do any singing?
I only previewed this disc to see these new tunes, and yes it was a bit of a disappointment. They are just jamming. Mick sings "Well, Well, Well" a few times, but that's it for vocals. They do look like they are having fun though. I couldn't help but picture them doing other songs that we know from various boots.
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
I'm glad to see you've come back to earth since the "Ronnie at MSG - Birth of a Guitar God" post of last year ;-)
Great post and I'm rather disappointed about Well, Well and EWG not being real songs. Does Mick do any singing?
I must say that the honky tonk plick plucking of Chuck on numbers like MR and WTWCDown is completely tasteless and its unbelievable that grizzled veterans like Mick and Keith would tolerate that kind of crap :-(
That was Fleet '02! And he was insanely good! At MSG '03 he played second banana to Keith and third banana to Leavell and had a few excellent solos still totally drowned out... but the mix was much better.
Yeah, Mick literally just goes "Well, well" a coupla times while searching for his guitar on "Well Well", thus giving it its title. "Extreme Western Grip" gets its name from Keith's comment a few seconds after the song ends, which is apparently some sort of inside joke. I still think it's masturbatory in nature.
The studio does look pretty awesome. They seem very much at home. Ronnie and Keith weave crazy-good on "Extreme Western Grip"... but I couldn't hum either tune for my life, if you know what I mean. They're nice, but they're not songs. They're jams. If they'd get down to brass tacks after a few months rest, I think we could have the best Stones album since Tattoo You, or Some Girls, or Blood On The Tracks, or whatever you benchmark the Stones albums on these days.
Oh, on both songs, Leavell plays organ and sounds fantastic. Why don't they just take away his piano altogether?
-tSYX --- Take it away, take it away... |
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| gotdablouse |
Thanks for the details about the "two new tracks"...hehe...ol' bastards ;-) So do you think it's the kind of "stuff" Keith was referring to when he said they'd recorded some of their "best stuff in years" ;-)
Again I agree that other than for HTW, Chuck Leavell should be kept away from a piano, with a gun if need be and too bad if gets shot in the process! |
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| Mikey |
Great post TSYX. I love IYCRock Me from MSG. Charlie's crisp smacking drives the song and the chord changes go over pretty well.
Seriously, has Charlie said anything remotely quoteable (I'd take hearable) in the last 20 years?
Also, this may be kind of a reach and I say this laughingly, but watching the documentary clips (disc one, along with the "backstage pass" function turned on) made me realize that with all the "assistants", "handlers" and "hanger-ons", I'd be surprised if the Band members could open a can of Coke on their own. Anybody know what I mean?
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| Gazza |
>Thanks for the details about the "two new tracks"...hehe...ol' bastards ;-) So do you think it's the kind of "stuff" Keith was referring to when he said they'd recorded some of their "best stuff in years" ;-)
well it probably is - by default though, because theyd recorded fuck all for five years between 1997 and 2002. So he's technically right. That said, you could also argue its their "WORST stuff in years" too!
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| Nellcote |
As someone once said, "Is Everything Allright In The Critics Section?"
C'mon, four discs for $30? This is any Stones fan dream. Great audio, seeing them in the studio working, the rehearsal sessions, plus the club video, far more than anyone could ask for. And did we really think that they would release meaningful new music on a dvd? It is wicked pissa to see what happens in the studio. Are there warts and blemishes, well, hell yes! Keith even admits it. We are talking about 60yr old's, lest we forget.
I will stand on to say this package will make the mark for music dvd sales, more than any other band piece, and you haven't even seen the TV marketing for it come out, which will again push this product.
My only regret is that it will be along time before another official product release by the Stones.
ROIO forever!
[Edited by Nellcote] |
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| jb |
I was disappointed in it Nelly. MSG was dreadful. Twickenham was an average stadium performance. Atlanta was much better IMHO...Olympia was O.K., but "Heartbreaker" was painfully embarrassing. The documentary, apart from seeing a few boring rehearsals(some of which were staged IMO), were the same old things we have seen many times. I agree, for 30 bucks, what's there to complain, but inevitably, another disappointing effort from the boys. |
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| Moonisup |
heartbreaker was indeed not the best ever, although better then in Munich 06-04 |
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| glencar |
Joshy, I was at the Atlanta & Twickenham show. I thought both were great shows with a slight edge to Twix. |
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| Joey |
This is THE BEST STONES YET !!!!!!!!!!
......................although " HeartBreaker " was a bit weak on this tour -- Go Figure !
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| Gazza |
Twickenham was a fuckin' beezer of a show. damn right...
agree with nellcote. Even though we havent had the DVD released over here yet, I cant see what you guys can complain about. 4 DVD's and about 7 hours of footage of the Stones for $30?? (lucky bastards - its more than double that price over here!)
Everyone who bought this DVD has a good idea of what the Stones looked / sounded like on the last tour, so if they werent worth watching to begin with, why buy the DVD? are you surprised that youre disappointed or something? what were you expecting to begin with?
I think some of us have to much time on our hands (and I include myself in that!! )but if youre going to sit through a DVD looking for shortcomings and saying what you dont like instead of saying what you DO like and trying to enjoy it for what it is - a piece of entertainment - then surely thats missing the point of buying it. We wouldnt buy a DVD of a band we didnt like and then go through it with a fine toothcomb looking for flaws,so its odd to do so for a band we do like. |
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| stonedinaustralia |
thankas for the review tSYX
while not entirely surprising the news of the two new tracks is disappointing - can you describe the "feel" of them
further to this and the "is the end near" thread i guess it almost goes without saying and i suspect i speak for all of us when i say i hope whatever happens in the future that the band make the effort to release at least one more "album" - whenever the end may come (as it surely will) i'd much rather see the whole thing end with a bang than a whimper
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| Mikey |
Good thoughts Gazza.
In my opinion, the "negativity" stems from the fact that we fans want the band to be sincere about what it has to offer. Don't advertise "two new songs" when in fact they are just pre-production numbers that all bands do when warming up in the studio. To me EWGrip and WWW are just jams like those found on Voodoo Brew/Stew (Alright Charlie, Zulu Warrior).
Not evident on FF, but when we hear things like, "The Band's playing better than ever" (1999??) and "I'd say this is the best work we've done since Exile" (Steel Wheels??), it kinda smacks of the RS publicity machine kicking in.
There is a lot of playing to the camera and items that looked "staged" (Worried about you rehearsals) and when that happens, people get cynical.
I am not obsessed with ticket sales, attendance figures like some - I am more than happy to get whatever the band has to offer. That said, I think FF is fucking awesome and it will be worth your wait.
[Edited by Mikey] |
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| Moonisup |
what charlie said in according to the rolling stones
they should write songs together again, only then things will work out, if keith or mick writes, it's most of the time 80% stones and not 100% |
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| glencar |
Beezer? Good or bad? |
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| T&A |
yes - I'd like to know the meaning of beezer too - sounds like a word I would like to use.
I'll try to respond to the question on the sound of the two new jams. The first is kind of a quiet, mid-tempo jazzy number - looks like Chawlie is quite comfortable with this one. More of a modal piece. The second is a slightly uptempo, funkier piece in which MJ saunters over to grab a harp mid-way through. Neither jam will sound anything remotely close to a finish product. K & R do more noodling than playing on their guitars. As someone said, they are both somewhat reminiscent of some of the loosely structured jams that appear on the VL outtakes.
The one segment on Disc1 that really surprised and struck a nerve with me was the cab/limo ride home the boys took after the Palais show.This piece (unlike much of the "documentary") was clearly not staged. What you see is the real deal with MJ and the others clearly exhausted, relieved, elated and "on a high" having just staged their first public show in 3 years. There was honest emotion there that really touched me. They seemed supremely human for a few moments.
[Edited by T&A] |
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| quackenbush |
How can anyone be disappointed by the two new "songs" on the first disc? The package on the disc clearly states that they are bootlegs. And most of you buy or trade many bootlegs both live and studio performances that sound very poor sonically and have barely any full fledged songs. Admit it. You guys would shell out more than $30 for an audio of Keith taking a piss. So stop whining about the two songs. There are over fifty of them on it. Hit the fast forward button and--
Let yourselves enjoy the dvd. Its quite good. |
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| littleredrooster |
I HAD IT !
JB your opinions are RUBBISH, you don't have a f***in' clue!
Your alleged money didn't take you to ONE European show and you have the nerve to criticize Twickenham!
I was there, it was more than you'll EVER know!
The MSG HBO performance was trash in comparison!
6 shows in Europe and 14 in the US during Licks says your opinion is CRAP!
Oh, I Did see an empty seat at Amsterdam Arena.....behind a fuckin' post!
Roostah CROWS !!!!!!!
[Edited by littleredrooster] |
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| glencar |
Read it Joshy! |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
thankas for the review tSYX
while not entirely surprising the news of the two new tracks is disappointing - can you describe the "feel" of them
Guitars both high and muddy on both tunes. Both are very laid-back, "Grip" having the edge, "Well Well" sounding more relaxed, like a good song on one of Mick's solo albums. They're jams in every sense of the word. I have trouble remembering them. All I remember is how cool the studio was, how well they all seemed, and how much I want a new studio album.
-tSYX --- High and dry, well ya left me with no warnin'... |
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| gypsy |
I can't believe ANYONE would complain about these discs. Gazza, they are great...all four of them. And the price is sooo amazingly low. I think it's a hell of a deal. |
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| sirmoonie |
The Stones fucking rocked in 2002-2003. Wonderful times! |
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| littleredrooster |
INDEED!! |
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| sammy davis jr. |
I like the Extreme Western Grip thing....it reminds me alot of the ending "jam" of CYHMK, without the overdubbed solo. It has real potential IMO. |
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| Child of the Moon |
quote:
jb wrote:
I was disappointed in it Nelly. MSG was dreadful. Twickenham was an average stadium performance. Atlanta was much better IMHO...Olympia was O.K., but "Heartbreaker" was painfully embarrassing. The documentary, apart from seeing a few boring rehearsals(some of which were staged IMO), were the same old things we have seen many times. I agree, for 30 bucks, what's there to complain, but inevitably, another disappointing effort from the boys.
Spoken like a true Beatles fan.
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| Nellcote |
Just got done watching Olympia Club Gig, while reformatting a hard drive (ARGH!) What a beautiful piece of work it is! Respectable rocks harder than I've seen in some time! Nearness Of You is a great number. Love Train cooks so much. All I could think of is the shallow and snide comments one Katie Couric had yesterday am during Pt II of The Stones interview. She is such a elitist trollop it disgusts me. No talent wannabe. Would not know a good band if it fell on her. Back to the disc. The backstage popups are great. I read where The Stones site is to have hints about extras buried within the set, anyone know about this? Oh my, bring me a 27 inch snowstorm come February, enuff here for a whole day's viewing.
Someday, the world outside of any Stones web site or board, will realize what a great band this is! |
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| Jumacfly |
JB your comments are pathetic...i m sorry for you man but if you think the dvd sucks then bring it back to the store, may be a second hand Beatles Antholoy will help you having a good time...well well well.. |
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| padre |
Better still: send it to me. I'll give your money back. Every cent. Really. |
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