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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
Juan Villoro, Mexican Consul in Spain, and fan of The Rolling Stones travelled from Spain to London to interview Mick Jagger, according to Fernando Aceves (btw, thank for the heads up!!!) the interview was conducted this week, probably on November 1 for the Spanish Newspaper �El Pa�s�. The interview is not currently available on the net at their website but... who knows, maybe later. The interview was in the Sunday (November 4) supplement of the newspaper.
Those in Spain, M�xico, and South Am�rica can find the newspaper and the Jagger supplement in your own country.
As another Stones connection of Juan Villoro and the Rolling Stones, he made the introduction �33 Revoluciones� to Fernando Aceves book �Rolling Stones Fotograf�as de Fernando Aceves� click the link for the cover.
In addition to the interview; the supplement has great photos by Karl Lagerfeld!
I�m going to read first and if possible translate the best portions but believe me, it was a great one, and fresh and funny!
Some images will be posted as reply to this message in some minutes
I have 6 copies available at the local retail price plus P&H&I, if you want one click here
[Edited by VoodooChileInWOnderl] |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
London - November 1, 2001 by Alberto S�nchez
[Edited by VoodooChileInWOnderl] |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
First step: The article in Spanish
El superviviente del Rock
Con 50 a�os, cuarenta con los Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger no pierde carisma ni actualidad. Ni fama de ser uno de los personajes m�s dificiles de entrevistar. Por su humor cambiante. Este mes saca un nuevo disco en solitario
Por Juan Villoro
Fotograf�a de Karl Lagerfeld
Viene a entrevistar a Jagger?
�En qu� se ha metido!", la agente de aduanas sonr�e mientras revisa mi pasaporte. El aeropuerto de Heathrow trabaja con retraso, pero ella ratifica la capacidad inglesa para el small talk, en unos segundos llega a los nefastos l�mites de la cultura pop: "Las superestrellas viven para ser entrevistadas y detestan ser entrevistadas". Ve mi foto, que no se parece en nada a la cara que llevo esa ma�ana. "Son unos anormales". Supongo que se sigue refiriendo a las superestrellas. Le pido un consejo para mi anormal. "Preg�ntele c�mo va la cosa con Jerry Hall; si lo abofetea, es por mi culpa. Bienvenido a Gran Breta�a".
El vivero de la contracultura que hace 35 a�os merec�a el nombre de Swinging London se ha convertido en un tenso basti�n cosmopolita. Los peri�dicos hablan del choque de civilizaciones, la ruptura de la arcadia global. Una fauna variopinta insiste en mezclar costumbres y demostrar que la ciudad se parece a lo que Borges encontr� en El aleph: "Vi un laberinto roto: era Londres". En un cibercaf�, un hombre de turbante consulta los resultados del hockey sobre c�sped; unas chicas ataviadas a la usanza musulmana r�en ante un cartel que anuncia una obra de Duchamp en la Nueva Tate: La novia desnudada por sus solteros ,- en un parque infinito, una sirvienta de uniforme empuja un cochecito de beb� en el que lleva croquetas para perro (la siguen 10 robustos pequineses); en un vag�n de tren veo a�n m�s perros (son bulldogs y todos est�n en el torso de un hooligan), en el asiento de enfrente, un hombre con aspecto de lord, o por lo menos de cliente decano de Burberry's, lee un peri�dico. Le pido el suplemento de espect�culos porque tiene a Jagger en la portada: Jumpimg Jack sonrie, mostrando la lengua m�s fotografiada del planeta. El cantante habla de su aventura como productor de Enigma, la pel�cula de Michael Apted, con gui�n de Tom Stoppard.
El reportero ofrece una noticia invaluable: Mick Jagger est�. de buen humor. Fue a la funci�n de gala con su hija, departi� con el pr�ncipe Carlos, brome� con los calumniadores de la prensa vespertina, salud� a decenas de s�bditos de la Corona y exclam� con el grandeur de quien sabe olvidar que paga demasiados impuestos: "Yo podr�a haber hecho de maravilla todos los papeles, pero no me dejaron".
Mis �ltimos d�as han girado en torno al mercurial humor del l�der de los Rolling Stones. Sus demandas emocionales obedecen a un c�digo tan estricto como el teatro kabuki. Harto de padecer el escrutinio que sin embargo necesita, evita hasta donde puede el contacto con los cazadores de intimidades y los desmitificadores de �ltima hora. El protocolo para entrevistar a Jagger pasa por media docena de chicas amabil�simas que lo llaman Mick y respetan en dosis id�nticas la curiosidad de los periodistas y el mal genio del artista. Pocos hiperquim�ticos han conquistado tan a pulso su derecho a la descortes�a. Despu�s de sudar ante millones de feligreses al ritmo de Peleador callejero, este evangelista del alto volumen no tiene por qu� presentarse como el afable hombre de negocios que tambi�n es.
La verdad sea dicha, ser�a decepcionante encontrar a un Jagger falto de temperamento. El Leo m�s famoso desde Napole�n vive para la notoriedad de sus impulsos. As� las cosas, los d�as previos a la entrevista abundaron en informes sobre el clima en la mente del cantante. Mick Jagger acaba de terminar Goddess in the doorway (Diosa en el umbral), su nuevo disco como solista. A estas alturas de su supervivencia, no pone nada en riesgo. �Hay alguien capaz de creer que Jagger depende de la m�sica? Como la Coca-Cola o su tocayo Mickey Mouse, es un arquetipo del siglo XX y ya pertenece a la arqueolog�a del presente. La suite de Jagger es el equivalente medi�tico de la reci�n descubierta tumba de Zed-Khon-uef-ankh en Egipto, s�lo que en este caso el habitante de la cripta es hipersensible. No puede ser de otro modo para alguien sometido a la fabulaci�n de los otros. En la simplificaci�n positiva, Jagger es, como escribi� Martin Amis, "el menos sedentario de los millonarios", un coleccionista de top-models, el vitaminado sobreviviente de todos los excesos, la vibrante encarnaci�n del lema "larga vida a lo ef�mero". En la simplificaci�n negativa, Jagger aparece como un prisionero de su fama: se tortura durante cuatro horas diarias en un gimnasio, come semillas maerobi�ticas, se inyecta gl�ndulas de mono, le han injertado pelo de 40 personas y se duerme a las siete de la noche en una c�mara as�ptica y solitaria. La aburrida verdad debe quedar en un sitio intermedio, pero no le conviene a la leyenda.
El mito de Jagger es posible gracias a un milagro biol�gico: Keith Richards sigue vivo. El imperio de los Stones es controlado en minucia por el cantante, pero depende de los oscuros callejones recorridos por el guitarrista. En Goddess in the doorway, Jagger ha querido recuperar la privacidad con que nadie lo asocia, la espontaneidad de quien toca con sus amigos y habla de sus complejos y sus heridas. Ha vuelto a escribir canciones en la cocina, no en la de Keith Richards, donde se desayuna cerveza a las seis de la tarde, sino en la que es honestamente suya: un laboratorio para preparar caf�, digno de la tecnolog�a post-Habitat de Inteligencia artificial
La invitaci�n a la controlada intimidad de Jagger me lleva al hotel Mandarin, un escenario de los tiempos de esplendor colonial, sacado de alg�n relato de Kipling: vest�bulos de m�rmol, ujieres indios, chimeneas encendidas, jardines interiores con helechos. Con renovada amabilidad, la gente de la compa��a Virgin me recuerda que hay una lista de temas prohibidos. "�Est�s nervioso?", me preguntan. No estoy nervioso porque no he le�do la lista, pero empiezo a estarlo porque bebo tres tazas de t� en el bar y un ping-pong de tel�fonos m�viles nos informa de que las entrevistas van con retraso. Los reporteros somos guiados como el tr�fico a�reo rezagado en un aeropuerto. Tal vez Jagger ya no est� de buen humor Recuerdo infinidad de entrevistas que el hombre de la lengua ha interrumpido con bostezos y p�sima dicci�n. Dejo de contar las tazas de t�, pero no de beberlas. La representante inglesa de Virgin se muerde una u�a y me dice para motivarme: "Eres el �ltimo de la fila; Mick espera mucho de esta entrevista". Sospecho que hay problemas y apuro otra taza de t�. Su Sat�nica Majestad aparece a la altura de su fama. Aguzo el o�do, en espera de que un televisor caiga por la ventana.
Una superstici�n period�stica me sugiere una negra ley de las compensaciones: ser�a magn�fico que Jagger odiara al periodista alem�n que me precede.
La encargada de relaciones p�blicas llega al bar: "�Est�s preparado?", pregunta en el tono en que la torre de control se dirige a un avi�n sin tren de aterrizaje. El silencio en el ascensor revela que algo sali� mal, pero sobre todo que a�n puede ir peor. Pasamos a una surte decorada para filmar una novela de Henry James. Lo �nico que desentona con los sof�s imperiales y las mesas de caoba es el hombre en el umbral, vestido con una camisa p�rpura, abierta sobre una camiseta. Lleva un list�n en la mu�eca (como los que se atan en Bras� para cumplir un deseo) y sonr�e de buena gana: "Soy Mick" (en su caso, la aclaraci�n es una muestra de iron�a).
A los 58 a�os, Jagger sigue sin estar quieto en una silla. Cruza y descruza las piernas, gesticula como si tuviera que ser elocuente a treinta metros de distancia, cargado de una energ�a sin prop�sito definido. Sus facciones se han arrugado en forma decorativa, como el rictus de pistolero de Clint Eastwood o los inmensos rostros de piedra de Mount Rushmore. Habla de su concierto en M�xico: "La altura me mataba; deber�amos hacer pretemporada para tocar ah�, como los equipos de f�tbol". Entona Satisfaction del peor modo posible para demostrar la forma en que el aire mexicano le rob� la voz. Algo me dice que la entrevista anterior fue un desastre. "El periodista alem�n fue masacrado: Jagger est� de estupendo humor", piensa el vampiro que habita en todo entrevistador
Ha dicho que "Goddess in the doorway" es el m�s personal de sus discos. Cuando una celebridad tiene arrebatos de franqueza, casi siempre se piensa que se trata de otra estrategia en el culto de su personalidad.
Goddess fue hecho en mi casa, en Francia. El material conserv� una integridad que hubiera perdido en un estudio de Los �ngeles, con int�rpretes profesionales que acaban d�ndole otra direcci�n a tus ideas. Pude preservar las canciones como estaban al principio, y luego recib� el apoyo de amigos como Bono o Pete Townsend. Es un viaje �ntimo porque estuve solo la mayor parte del tiempo.
Scott Fitzgerald escribi� que no hay segundos actos en la historia americana. La cultura pop ama el "comeback" el regreso contra todos los pron�sticos, algo desconocido para el duradero Mick Jagger.
No he tenido tiempo de planear un regreso a la escena porque no he salido de ella.
Sin embargo, en el disco se muestra vulnerable y habla de numerosas derrotas emocionales. Hacia el final dice: "Debo aprender". Una frase sorprendente para Jagger.
�Son las promesas que uno hace a las mujeres! [r�e]. Algo dif�cil de cumplir.
�Qu� debe aprender?
Cuando te embarcas en un proyecto, ya sea una pel�cula como Enigma o un disco como Goddess, siempre est�s aprendiendo cosas. Ignoro lo que debo aprender, s�lo s� que descubro algo nuevo en la b�squeda [Jagger agita las manos; sus ademanes fren�ticos recuerdan lo que tantas veces hemos visto en el escenario: �l es su propio campo de conocimiento; "aprender" significa descubrirse].
"Goddess" explora ritmos muy poco frecuentados por los Rolling Stones. �Puede realmente desmarcarse del conjunto?
Lo �ltimo que deseas como solista es que tu disco se parezca a los Rolling Stones. �se es el mayor reto, aunque tampoco debes temerles demasiado a las semejanzas. Se trata, simplemente, de suponer por unos minutos que no han existido los Rolling Stones.
En varias canciones habla de escapar. El disco parece el �ltimo motel del desierto, un refugio para los descarriados.
No estoy seguro de que insista en ese tema. S�lo hablo de eso en Hide away... Tambi�n en Too far gone y en Lucky Day. Bueno, �no tenemos todos deseos de largarnos al fin del mundo alguna vez?
�Donde no haya periodistas?
Exactamente [sonr�e]. Pero tampoco me gusta aislarme del todo. Necesito la energ�a de los otros [a�ade en tono de amable antropofagia].
"Don�t call me up" es una de las canciones m�s tristes que ha escrito. Aunque trata del fin de una relaci�n amorosa, tal vez alude a otras cosas. Fue compuesta cuando se acababa la �ltima gira de los Stones. �Tan duro es abandonar el camino?
Es dur�simo. Nunca sabes si lo volver�s a hacer. Jam�s he querido renunciar a actuar en p�blico, pero alg�n d�a se acabar�n las giras. Ahora ya no puedo tener la certeza de que volver� al escenario. Estuvimos dos a�os de gira. Demasiado
tiempo, a fui de cuentas.
Hace algunos a�os escribi�: "El tiempo no espera a nadie" �Hay espacio para la nostalgia tras 40 a�os con los Stones?
S�, claro. Pero hay que tener cuidado. La palabra nostalgia, que supongo viene del griego, tiene la connotaci�n de querer estar en el pasado con demasiada fuerza. El pasado es un sitio espl�ndido, no quiero cancelarlo ni arrepentirme de �l, pero tampoco quiero ser su reh�n. Quisiera lograr un equilibrio y olvidar algunas cosas. A medida que envejeces, la gente te habla m�s y m�s de tu pasado, lo cual est� bien en cierta dosis. Pero debes cu�darte de no permanecer en el pasado, o corres el peligro de no entender las cosas que cambian en ti o que cambian a tu alrededor. Esto le puede pasar a cualquier persona de 30 a�os. Obviamente, para m� hay un riesgo especial. A la gente le encanta hablar de cuando era joven y escuch� por primera vez Honky tonk women. �Es una carga bastante pesada llevar encima los recuerdos de tanta gente! Me gusta que pase, pero debo cuidar- me de que el pasado no me atrape. Por eso tiendo a olvidar mis canciones.
En "Jagger remembers", la extensa entrevista que Jann S. Wenner le hizo hace unos a�os para "Rolling Stone", me sorprendi� que no recordara en qu� discos estaban muchas de sus canciones. Wenner ten�a que record�rselo. Los 'fans' se acuerdan mejor de su obra que usted.
No soy un bibliotecario de mi mismo. Es bueno no estar muy pendiente de lo que hiciste. Adem�s, hemos grabado canciones en un mismo d�a que salen a�os despu�s en otros discos.
El pensamiento religioso nunca ha estado muy presente en sus canciones; sin embargo, ahora se pone m�stico cuando sube a un coche. En una canci�n habla de "buscar la verdad en los callejones", y en otra va en cuatro ruedas en pos de Buda. Para el movedizo Jagger, un auto parece el equivalente de una capilla.
�Me he vuelto un predicador motorizado? Eso sucede porque no soy yo el que conduce y tengo que pensar en otras cosas. Pasamos tanto tiempo en los coches, que si no tratas de tener experiencias ah�, te vuelves loco [se acomoda por en�sima vez en su asiento, demostrando lo ardua que le parece la vida sedentaria]. La gente se vuelve muy pensativa en los coches. Supongo que no soy muy consciente de las met�foras que uso y me serv� de los coches en estas b�squedas. Pero los autos ya no me interesan en s� mismos. No los colecciono [hace una pausa, enfatizando que cuando algo le interesa, puede multiplicarlo sin t�rmino; un recuerdo cambia el rumbo de su mirada y de sus palabras]... No me interesan los coches, pero el otro d�a vi 100 Ferrari en una plaza de Par�s, y eso me gust�.
Usted es el alumno m�s famoso de la London School of Economies.
Hay otros, pero no me acuerdo de ellos [suelta una carcajada tan fuerte que o�mos suspiros en la suite adyacente, donde aguarda el equipo de Virgin.
Durante un tiempo frecuent� las tertulias laboristas en el restaurante The Gay Hussar y ha escrito canciones con tema pol�tico. �Querr�a comentar algo sobre el ataque a las Torres Gemelas?
Este no es un buen momento para hablar [se mesa el pelo). Aprecio que me pregunte, pero no es el sitio correcto para hablar del asunto [de nuevo las manos rumbo a la melena]. Acabo de hacer una entrevista con Rolling Stone en la que s�lo hablo de eso, hay que concentrarse en el asunto [un tercer contacto con el pelo del que parecen surgir impulsos decisivos].
Parece que asistimos a una nueva Edad Media, una guerra santa en la que se dirimen fanatismos.
El fanatismo de cualquier tipo es muy peligroso. No se trata de un conflicto entre naciones porque el fanatismo es pan-nacional. �Existe esa palabra? El caso es que no estamos ante el separatismo de un peque�o movimiento nacional. Esto es muy distinto a lo que pasa en Irlanda o en el Pa�s Vasco. Es algo totalmente pan-nacional. Aqu� no se reivindica un territorio. Ni siquiera hay un territorio de referencia para esta guerra.
El salvaje ataque en Manhattan ha desatado una ola de patriotismo en Estados Unidos. Martin Amis escribi� hace poco que a los norteamericanos les parece incornprensible que alguien los odie, y, sin embargo, hay razones hist�ricas para oponerse a su pol�tica. lrak ha perdido al 5% de su poblaci�n, una cifra que en Estados Unidos equivaldr�a a 14 millones de personas.
Hay much�simos norteamericanos que no tienen la menor idea de cu�l ha sido la pol�tica exterior de su pa�s. Y no lo digo de forma especialmente peyorativa. Es una cuesti�n de hecho. Si no sabes nada, no puedes entender lo que sucede. Los norteamericanos reciben explicaciones demasiado simples de lo que les pasa. En Francia, donde ahora vivo, hay mucha gente que critica la pol�tica norteamericana. A los norteamericanos les parece inconcebible que esto suceda. "�Si nosotros los ayudamos en la II Guerra Mundial!", dicen. No pueden entender que no los quieran. En cambio, si eres brit�nico, te acostumbras pronto a que no te quieran. Los irlandeses nos recuerdan agravios de hace 100 a�os, lo cual es un poco exagerado; tal vez deber�amos reaccionar qued�ndonos de lo que los franceses nos hicieron hace a�n m�s tiempo. Volviendo a Estados Unidos, ellos tienen el problema del vac�o hist�rico. Ahora tengo que ser muy cuidadoso con mis amigos norteamericanos. Est�n muy alterados. �Los que defienden la moderaci�n son capaces de estrangular a los que defienden el ataque frontal! La polarizaci�n afecta a las familias y los grupos de amigos. Se ha roto todo tipo de alianzas y trincheras. Es una situaci�n paralizante. Una guerra civil de la opini�n. Lo importante en esa guerra es que hay cada vez m�s gente que disiente de la mayor�a. El patriotismo es una reacci�n instant�nea que se diluye cuando empieza la guerra.
No parece haber grandes caudillos en nuestro tiempo. Hace algunos a�os, el novelista John Mortimer le consult� a usted en materia de carisma. En aquel entonces, Rasput�n le parec�a la superestrella del carisma.
Una elecci�n curiosa. �Eso dije?
�A qu� carism�tico elige esta tarde?
A Casanova. No ten�a dinero ni poder, y, seg�n algunas personas, ni siquiera era guapo. Pero ten�a talento para la vida, y algo de talento literario. Me encanta c�mo se invent� a s� mismo. Esa �poca est� llena de figuras que se las arreglan para llegar de modo extra�o a la cima de la sociedad. Cagliostro me parece otro tipo admirable. Un estafador religioso. Y Potemkin, el amante y colaborador pol�tico de Catalina la Grande.
Ha mencionado a carism�ticos que seducen en la intimidad.
S�- Casanova ejerc�a su carisma en corto, cara a cara. No era un seductor de auditorios.
�Escribir�a su autobiogrf�a?
Las biograf�as de las celebridades pop brit�nicas son horrorosas. La spice girl Victoria Beckham acaba de publicar la historia de su vida. Confieso que no est� en mi mesa de lectura. Es incre�ble lo que se dice en ese subg�nero que cuenta las supuestas vidas de las celebridades. El otro d�a le� un art�culo incre�ble y me enter� de que Jerry Hall tiene una hinchaz�n en el seno. Eso les parec�a no s�lo digno de una entrevista, sino de ocupar la portada. Est� de moda hablar de las partes m�s privadas de tu vida. otra moda es arrepentirte de tus excesos y criticar las drogas que te hicieron tan feliz en otro tiempo. Leo las cosas m�s extravagantes de gente que sufre y se deprime por escrito de todo lo que antes le gustaba [Jagger se lleva una mano a la frente, imitando una pose de diva ultrajada por los recuerdos].
Entonces no ha llegado el momento de la autobiograf�a.
Ciertamente, no de escribir una de ese tipo. Cuando la escriba, ser� devastadora [la �ltima palabra sale en el tono rasposo de un reportero que fuma mucho].
Sin embargo, sus nuevos proyectos tienen que ver con la intimidad. Prepara un v�deo, una especie de pel�cula casera.
S�, le pido a la gente que me filme. Es un programa de televisi�n que s�lo trata del instante, de lo que ocurre ahora.
�El gui�n que est� escribiendo para Scorese tambi�n es autobiogr�fico?
Para nada. Se The long play y es la historia de dos ejecutivos de la industria del disco, entre 1965 y 1995. No tiene que ver conmigo. Es sobre el negocio de la m�sica [Jagger subraya la diferencia, como si alguien pudiera pensar que su vida y el negocio son t�rminos equivalentes]. Tal vez haga un papel, pero ser� otro.
La canci�n "God gave me everything" parece el reverso de un terna de juventud, 'You can�t always get what you want". Ha dicho que escribi� la letra en diez minutos, cuando la m�sica ya estaba lista.
S�, Lenny Kravitz me esperaba con las palabras.
Algunos podr�an pensar que en esos diez minutos, el flujo de la conciencia lo llev� a un excepcional momento de sinceridad y se vio con la grandeza de un Dios. Sin embargo, la canci�n tiene un tono herido, parece un grito para seguir luchando.
As� es. [El reportero pierde el tiempo esperando apostas�as: "No soy Dios" y encabezados por el estilo. Jagger guarda un silencio de icono].
El mundo del espect�culo tiene una curiosidad obscena por sus �dolos. Los �dolos est�n hartos, pero necesitan de las c�maras. �En qu� medida podemos creer que la verdadera intimidad de alguien tan revisado por la mirada p�blica se encuentra en el disco "Goddess" y no en los chismes de la prensa?
Hay que transmitirlo de manera po�tica o no logras nada. Si logras una im�gen po�tica, incluso puedes hablar de la hinchaz�n en el seno de Jerry Hall. Lo decisivo es la forma. La gente cree conocerte, y en cierta forma conoce cosas de ti que has olvidado o nunca supiste, pero eso no est� en juego en una canci�n. Mis secretos deben ser po�ticos para que sean cre�bles.
"Gun" me record� a William Burroughs, disparando contra su esposa en M�xico. Es una canci�n de amor donde el protagonista pide que le disparen. No creo que haya cantado nada m�s violento.
Si la canci�n es violent�sima y no s� de d�nde me vino. Normalmente no soy un tipo violento.
En la canci�n, usted no se ve como el asesino, sino como la v�ctima.
Realmente es una canci�n extra�a. Todo parte de la pregunta: "�D�nde voy a morir?". Es una preocupacion fuerte
Ha descrito el disco como m�sica que puede ser creada en una cocina.
Me refiero a que puedes tocar este tipo de m�sica sin acudir a los grandes estudios. As� era antes el pop y tal vez as� deber�a ser siempre. Algo que puedes tocar aqu� y ahora. Lo que no puedes tocar en tu cocina es rap. El rap no va ah�. Eso se hace en la cocina de los vecinos.
En las entrevistas a las celebridades, cada minuto adicional equivale a una yarda ganada de milagro en un partido de rugby "�Es suficiente?", pregunta Jagger, que en Wild horses cant�: "Tengo libertad, pero no tengo mucho tiempo". Se pone de pie. Sabe que la entrevista dur� m�s de lo convenido, un lapso que en la avasallante celeridad del pop equivale a una edad cl�sica.
Jagger se mueve con desesperada premura de una eternidad a otra; no es una ruina agraviada ni una reliquia ennoblecida por los a�os; su �nico espacio es el presente, un presente detenido. Ninguna frase captura mejor su circunstancia que la conjetura que pronunci� en la entrevista: "Supongamos que no existen los Rolling Stones". En cuatro d�cadas de vida p�blica, Mick Jagger es ya un relato colectivo. Su pose m�s seductora y radical es la de desconocerse. Imposible saber con qu� ah�nco cultiva la soledad y el olvido. De cualquier forma, su personaje s�lo en parte le pertenece.
NEXT STEP: TRanslation to Spanish! |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
Second step:
While Jaime Vargas and I make the translation to "proper English" you can use altavista translations ( http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn )
Be sure to copy and paste the following link to get a better format: http://novogate.com/board/968/23561-1.html#330821 This is better than just copy the text. |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
other great photo by Karl Lagerfeld and a zoom, check Mick tooth!
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| yellow1 |
didn't know Karl Lagerfeld took photos !
They're a bit strange so I guess it could be him... |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
Good news! Gaby del Bianco (Brazil), Jaime Vargas (Spain) and this Chile (sike-ay-delic-land) are translating the whole interview into a proper English, we are confident that we will have a good translation tomorrow as we are going to do a cross-check before.
Stay tuned as it is a great interview! |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
CREDITS:
Heads Up: Fernando Aceves - M�xico.
Spanish text scan and OCR conversion: Marcelo Quatraro - Argentina.
Translation to English:
Gaby del Bianco � Brazil
Jaime Vargas � Spain
Gerardo Liedo - M�xico
Rock Survivor
At fifty, forty of them in the Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger does not lose his charisma nor his relevance. Nor his fame of being one of the toughest people to interview. Because of his changing mood. This month he puts a new solo album out.
By Juan Villoro
Photographs by Karl Lagerfeld
"Are you coming to interview Jagger? What a mess you got yourself in!� the customs agent smiles while she inspects my passport. Heathrow airport is having delay, but she ratifies English people's ability for small talk, in a few seconds she gets to the nefarious limits of pop culture: "Superstars live to be interviewed and detest to be interviewed". She looks at my photo, which doesn't look anything like the face I have that morning. "They are abnormal". I suppose she's still referring to the superstars. I ask for advice to deal with my abnormal. "Ask him how things are with Jerry Hall; if he slaps you, blame it on me. Welcome to Great Britain".
That breeding ground of counter-culture which 35 years ago earned the name of Swinging London has become a tense cosmopolitan bastion. The newspapers talk about the clash of civilizations, the breaking of the global Arcadia. A mixed fauna insists on blending customs and demonstrating how the city looks like what Borges found in The Aleph: "I saw a splintered labyrinth (it was London)". In a cyber caf�, a man with a turban looks up the field hockey results; some girls dressed in the Muslim style laugh in front of a poster which advertises a work by Duchamp in the New Tate: The Bride Stripped Bare by her Bachelors, Even; in an infinite park, a uniformed maid pushes a baby carriage where she carries croquettes for dogs (she's followed by 10 sturdy Pekinese); in a train wagon I see even more dogs (they are bulldogs and they are all on a hooligan's torso), in the seat across him, a man with the look of a lord, or at least of a senior customer at Burberry's, reads a newspaper. I ask him for the entertainment supplement because it shows Jagger in the front page: Jumping Jack smiles, showing the world's most photographed tongue. The singer talks about his adventure as a producer for Enigma, Michael Apted's film with a script by Tom Stoppard.
The reporter offers an invaluable bit of news: Mick Jagger is in a good mood. He went to the royal premiere with his daughter, conversed with Prince Charles, joked with the calumniators of the afternoon press and exclaimed with the grandeur of one who knows how to forget that he pays too many taxes: "I could have played all the roles wonderfully, but they didn't let me".
My last days have been moving around the mercurial humour of the Rolling Stones� front man. His emotional demands obey a code as strict as kabuki theatre. Fed up with suffering the scrutiny that he nevertheless needs, he avoids as much as he can the contact with the intimacy hunters and last-minute demystifiers. The protocol for interviewing Jagger goes through half a dozen most kind girls who call him Mick and respect in identical doses the journalists� curiosity and the artist�s bad temper. Little hyper kinetics has worked so hard to conquer their right to discourtesy. After sweating in front of millions of parishioners to the rhythm of Street Fighting Man, this evangelist of the high volume doesn�t have to present himself as the kind businessman he also is.
Truth be told, it would be disappointing to find a temperless Jagger. The most famous Leo since Napoleon lives for the notoriety of his impulses. Things being like that, the days before the interview were abundant with reports about the climate in the singer�s mind. Mick Jagger has just finished Goddess in the doorway, his new solo album. At this point in his survival, he does not risk anything. Is anybody ready to believe that Jagger depends on his music? Like Coca-Cola or his namesake Mickey Mouse, he�s an archetype of the 20th century and he already belongs to the archaeology of the present time. Jagger�s suite is the mediatic equivalent of the recently discovered tomb of Zed-Khon-uef-ank in Egypt, only that in this case the inhabitant of the crypt is hypersensitive. It cannot be otherwise for someone who�s under the others� fables. In the positive simplification, Jagger is, as Martin Amis wrote, �the less sedentary of the millionaires�, a collector of top-models, the vitamin-filled survivor of all excesses, and the vibrant incarnation of the motto �long live the ephemeral�. In the negative simplification, Jagger appears as a prisoner of his own fame: he tortures himself during four hours a day in the gym, eats macrobiotic seeds, gets injections of monkey glands, has hair implants from 40 people and goes to bed at 7 in the evening in an aseptic and lonely chamber. The boring truth must be in the middle, but it�s not convenient to the legend.
Jagger�s Myth is possible thanks to a biological miracle: Keith Richards is still alive. The Stones Empire is painstakingly controlled by the singer, but depends on the dark alleys walked by the guitarist. In Goddess in the doorway, Jagger wants to recover the privacy nobody associates him with, the spontaneity of he who plays with his friends and speaks about his complexes and his wounds. He�s back to writing songs in the kitchen, not in Keith Richards�, where there�s beer for breakfast at six in the evening, but in that which is honestly his: a laboratory for brewing coffee, worthy of the post-Habitat technology of Artificial Intelligence.
The invitation to Jagger�s controlled privacy carries me to the Mandarin hotel, a setting from the times of colonial splendour, out of some Kipling�s story: marble halls, Indian ushers, lit chimneys, interior gardens with ferns. With renewed kindness, the staff of the Virgin Company reminds me of the existence of a list of forbidden topics. �Are you nervous?� they ask me. I�m not nervous because I haven�t read the list, but I�m beginning to, because I drink three cups of tea in the bar and a ping-pong of cell phones informs us that the interviews are delayed. Reporters are guided like the late air traffic in an airport. Perhaps Jagger is not in a good mood anymore. I remember countless interviews that the tongue man did interrupt with yawns and dreadful diction. I stop counting the cups of tea, but not drinking them. The Virgin English representative bites her nail and says, to motivate me: �You�re the last in line; Mick expects much from this interview�. I suspect there are problems and I drain another cup of tea. His Satanic Majesty is living up to his fame. I prick up my ears, waiting for a TV set to fall down the window.
A journalists� superstition suggests to me a black law of compensation: it would be magnificent if Jagger hated the German journalist that precedes me.
The Public Relations woman gets to the bar: �Are you ready?� she asks in the tone of the control tower speaking to an undercarriage-less plane. The silence in the elevator reveals that something went bad, but above all that it can still go worse. We go into a suite decorated to film a Henry James novel. The only thing that doesn�t fit with the imperial sofas and the mahogany tables is the man in the threshold, dressed in a purple shirt, and unbuttoned over a T-shirt. He wears a strip in his wrist (like those which are used in Brazil to make a wish come true) and smiles willingly: �I�m Mick� (in his case, such clarification is a display of irony).
At 58, Jagger continues to not being still in a chair. He crosses and uncrosses his legs, gesticulates as if he had to be eloquent from a distance of thirty meters, charged with energy without defined purpose. His visage has wrinkled in a decorative manner, like Clint Eastwood�s gunman convulsive contraction of the lips or the immense stone faces in Mount Rushmore. He speaks about his Mexico concert: �The height was killing me; we should do pre-season training there, like soccer teams�. He sings Satisfaction in the worst possible manner to demonstrate how the Mexican air stole his voice. Something tells me the previous interview was a disaster. �The German journalist was massacred: Jagger is in a wonderful mood�, the vampire that lives inside every interviewer thinks.
You have said that Goddess in the doorway is the most personal of your albums. When a celebrity has those raptures of sincerity, it�s nearly always thought that it�s another strategy in his cult of personality.
Goddess was made in my home in France. The material retained an integrity whit it would have lost in Los Angeles studio, with professional musicians who end up giving another direction to your ideas. I could preserve the songs as they were in the beginning, and then I got the support of friends like Bono or Pete Townshend. It�s an intimate trip because I was alone most of the time.
Scott Fitzgerald wrote that there are no second acts in the American history. The pop culture loves the �comeback", the returning as opposed every prediction. Something unknown to the enduring Mick Jagger.
I haven�t had the time to plan returning to the scene because I haven�t left it.
However, in his album he appears vulnerable and talks about his numerous emotional defeats. Close to the end he says: �I must learn�. A surprising statement coming from Jagger.
It�s the things we promise women! (laughs). It�s difficult to keep one�s word.
What do you have to learn?
When you start a new project, no matter if it�s a movie like Enigma or an album like Goddess, you are always learning something. I don�t know what I must learn. All I know is that while I search, I find something new. (Jagger waves his hands; his frenetic gestures remind us of what we have seen so many times on stage: he is his own knowledge field; �learning� means discovering oneself).
"Goddess" explores rhythms seldom heard from the Rolling Stones. Can you really detach from the band?
As a solo performer the last thing you want is your album to sound like the Rolling Stones. That�s the greatest challenge, although you shouldn�t be too afraid of the resemblances. All you have to do is just pretend for a few minutes that the RS have never existed.
In several songs he talks about escaping. The album looks like the last motel in the desert, a shelter for the gone astray.
I don�t think I insist on that subject. I only mention it in �Hide Away�.... Also on �Too Far Gone� and on �Lucky Day�. Well, don�t we all feel like jumping to the end of the world sometimes?
You mean where there are no journalists?
Exactly (smiling). But on the other hand, I don�t like being completely isolated. I need the energy from other people, he adds.
"Don�t call me up" is one of the saddest songs that you have written. Although it�s about the end of a relationship, it could be related to other things. Did you write it by the end of the last Stones tour? Is it so difficult to give up?
It is very hard. You never know if you will do it again. I have never wanted to give up performing on stage, but one day the tours will be over. Right now I can�t be sure that I will be back on stage. We have been touring for two years and that is way too much.
Years ago you wrote: �Time waits for no one�. Is there room for nostalgia after 40 years with the Stones?
Yes, of course there is, but you must be careful. The word nostalgia, that I assume comes from Greek, has an inferred meaning of longing for the past. The past is a great place and I don�t want to erase it or to regret it, but I don�t want to be its prisoner either.
I would like to reach a balance and forget a few things. As you get older, people keep telling you more and more about your past. That is okay to a certain extent, but you must be careful not to remain in the past or you will run the risk of not understanding the things that change about you or around you.
This can happen to anyone who is around 30. Obviously for me there is a special risk. People love talking about when they were young and heard �Honky Tonk Women� for the first time. It�s quite a heavy load to carry on your shoulders the memories of so many people. I like it but I must be careful not to get trapped in the past. That�s why I tend to forget my songs.
In "Jagger remembers", the long interview you gave to Jann S. Wenner for �Rolling Stone�, a few years ago, I was surprised that you didn�t remember in which albums were many of your songs. Wenner had to keep reminding you. Your fans remember your work better than you.
I am not a librarian of my own work. It�s a good thing not to be too involved with what you have done in the past. Besides, we have recorded songs on the same day that were only released years later in other albums.
Religious thoughts have never been too present in your songs; however, you are now getting mystical when you get into a car. On one of the songs you talk about seeking the truth in the streets and on another one you drive to Buda on four wheels. For the energetic Jagger, a car seems to equal a chapel.
Have I turned into a motorized preacher? This happens because it�s not me the one who drives and I must think of other things. We spend so much time in cars that if you don�t try to get some experiences out of it you can go crazy (he makes himself comfortable in his seat as to demonstrate how tough sedentary life can be). People get very thoughtful when they are in cars.
I guess I am not very conscious of the figures of speech that I use and I ended up picking the cars. But I no longer care for cars. I don�t collect them (he pauses emphasizing that when he is interested in something he can multiply it endlessly; a memory modifies the look in his eyes and his words)... I am not interested in cars, but the other day I saw 100 Ferraris in square in Paris and I enjoyed that.
You are the most famous student of the London School of Economies.
There are others, but I can�t remember them (he laughs out so loudly that we can hear the Virgin team sighing in the room next door, where they are waiting).
For some time you have attended the Labor conversations at the Gay Hussar restaurant and you have written songs with political content. Would you like to make any comments about the attack against the Twin Towers?
This is not the right moment to talk about it (he runs his hand through his hair)
I appreciate your question but it�s not the right place to talk about this subject (again his hands go to his hair). I was just interviewed by Rolling Stone and that's all I talked about.
It�s like watching some kind of new medieval age, a holy war where the fanatism is disqualified.
Any kind of fanatism is very dangerous. It�s not about a conflict between nations because fanatism is pan-national. Does that word exist? The thing is that we are not facing separatism of a small national movement. This is very different from what is happening in Ireland or in the Basque country. It�s something totally pan-national. It�s not a territory that is being claimed. In this case there isn�t even a territory as a reference for this war.
The terrible attack in Manhattan has given place to a burst of patriotism in the United States. Martin Amis wrote, not long ago, that the Americans can�t understand why someone would hate them, however, there are historical reasons to disagree with their policies. Irak has lost five percent of its population, a number that in the U.S. would equal 14 million people.
Many Americans have no idea of what has been the foreign policy of their country. No offense, it�s just a fact. If you don�t know about something, you can�t understand what is going on.
The Americans get very simple explanations of what happens to them. In France, where I am living now, many criticize the American policies. The Americans find something like this inconceivable. �We helped them during WWII, why wouldn�t they love us?� they say.
But if you are British, you soon get used to people not loving you. The Irish remind us of offenses from a hundred years ago, which is a little exaggerated. Perhaps we should react to what the French did to us even longer ago.
Back to the U.S. they have a problem with historical emptiness. Now I have to be very careful with my American friends. They are very nervous! Those who support moderation could strangle those who stand for direct attack. Polarization affects families and groups of friends. All kind of alliances have been broken. It�s a paralyzing situation. A civil war of opinion. The important thing in that war is that there are more and more people who disagree with the majority. Patriotism is an instant reaction that fades away when the war starts.
It seems that there are not caudillos these days. Some years ago, the novelist John Mortimer consulted you in charisma matter; your answer then was that Rasputin was the charisma-superstar
A curious election. Did I say that?
Who will be your choice now?
Casanova, he had no money >and no power, and according to some persons, he even was cute. But he had talent to live, and some literature talent. I love how he invented himself. That period is full of characters that use to get to the top of society in a strange way and by themselves. Cagliostro is for me another admirable character, a religious deceiver, and Potemkin, the lover and political collaborator of Catalina the Great.
You have mentioned charismatic people who seduce in the intimacy.
Yes, Casanova he used to practice his charisma straight, short, face-to-face, he was not a seductive of auditoriums.
Would you write your autobiography?
Biographies of British pop celebrities are terrible. The Spice Girl Victoria Beckham has just published the story of her life. I confess that it is not in my reading table. It is unbelievable what the people talk about that sub generous that tell the world the assumed private life of celebrities. The other day I read and incredible article and found that Jerry Hall have a swelling in her tits! That appeared to them not just meritorious to publish, but to be the cover story! The new fashion is to talk about the most private parts of your life; other fashion is to repent of your excesses and to criticize the drugs that made you happy in the other times. I read the most extravagant things about people who suffer and depress because of the things written about things that they like them before. [Jagger put his hands on his brow imitating a diva raped by the memories]
Does it mean that it is not the right moment for an autobiography?
Certainly, not the time of one of that kind. When I do it, it will be a devastating story [The last word comes out as in a raucous tone from an obsessive smoking reporter]
However, your new projects have to do a lot with intimacy. Your new video is a kind of home-making movie.
Yes, I ask the people to film me. It is a TV program that deals with the current time, what happens now.
The script you�re writing for Scorsese is also autobiographical?
Absolutely not. Its name is �The Long Play� and it�s the story about two executives of the record industry between 1965 and 1995. It does not have anything to do with me. It is about the music biz [Jagger makes emphasis in the difference, like if someone could think that his life and the business are equivalent terms] Maybe I will play a roll but will be another.
The song �God gave me everything� seems to be the reverse of the eternal youth, �You can�t always get what you want�. You mentioned that you wrote the lyrics in ten minutes when the music was already done.
Yes, Lenny Kravitz was waiting for me with the lyrics.
Some people think that on those 10 minutes the flow of conscience took you to an exceptional moment of sincerity and that you looked with God�s greatness. However, the song has a wounded tone, like a shout to continue fighting.
Yes it is. [The reporter waste his time waiting for apostasies: �I�m not God and headers of the same style, Jagger keeps silence of an icon]
.
The world of show business has an obsessed curiosity for their idols. Idols are pissed of but they need the cameras. In what degree can we believe that the true intimacy of someone so well known at the public eyes is located in the album �Goddess� and not in the press gossip? �
It must be transmitted in a poetic way or you don�t achieve anything. If you achieve a poetic image, or even you can talk about a swelling in Jerry Hall�s tits. The decisive is the way. People think they know you, and in some way, they know the things about you that you have forgotten or you never knew, but that is not a game in a song. My secrets must be poetic to be believable.
�Gun� made me remember William Burroughs shooting her wife in Mexico. It�s a song of love where the protagonist asks to be shoot. I don�t think that you have always sung something more violent.
Yes the song is very violent, and I don�t know how it came to me. Normally I am not so violent.
In the song you look like the murderer and not like the victim.
It is really a strange song. Everything comes from the question: Where will I die? It is a strong concern.
Your new album has been described as music that can be created in a kitchen.
I mean that you can play that kind of music without going to the big studios. That was the pop before and maybe that should be the way forever. Something that you can play here and now. Something that you can�t play in your kitchen is rap. Rap does not fit there; it is done in your neighbour�s kitchen.
In celebrities� interviews each additional minute is like a yard won by a miracle in a rugby match. �Is it enough?� asks Jagger, who in Wild Horses sings �I have my freedom but I don't have much time� stands up. He knows that interview lasted more than the agreed, a lapse that in the subduing celerity of pop is like a classic age.
Jagger moves with desperate urgency from one eternity to another, it�s not neither an aggravated ruin nor a relic ennobled for years; his unique space is the present, a halted present. There is no phrase capturing better his circumstance than the conjecture he pronounced in the interview �Let�s assume that the Rolling Stones don�t exist�. IN four decades of his public life, Mick Jagger is now a collective report. His most seductive and radical pose is to pretend not to know himself. Impossible to know the eagerness he has to feed his solitude and forgetfulness. Anyway his own character is only partially owned by himself.
[Edited by VoodooChileInWOnderl] |
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