| November 11th, 2004 10:01 AM |
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| jb |
I'm driving my Porche cayenne Turbo today it it will blow away any pice of shit Corvette!!! |
| November 11th, 2004 10:10 AM |
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| Zeeta |
On a more lighter note - for football fans:
Yassar Arafat was apparently found dead wearing a Rangers shirt, Newcastle shorts and Everton socks.
The rumour now is he wants to be buried in the Gazza strip.
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| November 11th, 2004 10:13 AM |
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| Gazza |
someone texted me that joke the other day..lol
Didnt post it as I knew none of the Yanks or non football fans would have understood it! |
| November 11th, 2004 10:21 AM |
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| caro |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
Since 9/11 we are taking them out and not one terrorst attack has happened since. This is making matter worse, Fotini?
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
Between a leader that sits back and does nothing as the threats build (or worse yet, supports it), and one willing to eliminate those threats before they can act -- I am happy to take the latter. It is terrible that war harms the innocent, but allowing the enemy to continue to plan and attack our innocent is not an option in my mind
While we're at it, I have a question (neither a trick question nor a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely interested in the answer). I suppose we can all agree that the "war on terror" hasn't worked out exactly according to plans (though one can argue whether all in all, it's been a success or not).
Now let's say the worst scenario happens : terror attacks continue (there's already been one in Madrid, so probably terrorists are also planning to attack America's other allies), let's say there's even another attack in America. In the meantime, the insurgency in Iraq grows and threatens to become a civil war. US soldiers are more and more in danger. Bush carries on with his "if you're not with us you're against us"-attitude, and finally pisses off the British government, which stops its military support of the US. Bush announces a war against Lebanon and Syria, since that's where he says the WMD's are now hidden.
Of course, even I doubt that all this can happen (I sure hope it doesn't). But each of these things could happen given the current state of the war on terror. My question is : where do you draw the line? Will you not stop until the whole arab world has been provided with US-friendly governments? If there's another terror attack in America, will you see it as a failure of Bush's policies, or as a sign that he was right? If more Americans get killed in Iraq than on 9/11, will you still say it was worth it? And finally, do you have a 'B plan"? Or do you plan on going on like this forever?
I hope this hasn't been too long, and I hope I made it clear that all the above questions are in fact only one question : How do you measure the success (or failure) of Bush's policies, and is there a clear point where you would draw the line and say : "try something else"? |
| November 11th, 2004 10:22 AM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
jb wrote:
I'm driving my Porche cayenne Turbo today it it will blow away any pice of shit Corvette!!!
http://content2.us.porsche.com/prod/cayenne/cayenne_main.nsf/usaenglish/cayenne
Cayenne Turbo. 0-60 5.2 per above Porsche site
Vette. 0-60 4.8
You got robbed by the Germans, again
I think that Yassar drove a Yugo, like joey's, but I can't confirm |
| November 11th, 2004 10:23 AM |
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| Joey |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
Joey,
I suggest you buy Being Mick immediately. Or do you have it already? There is a scene where Petey Boy is in the studio WAILING away when Mick arrives. He is laying down his tracks for "Gun" on "Goddess".
SHEEEET!
The version on the album seriously watered down the sound of those chords but on the DVD it's raw and loud!
I was impressed....
Jeff Beckily yours,
MACKY!
Bless You My MACKY !!!!
I would like to caress your kneecaps !
Jacky Ewing ! ™ |
| November 11th, 2004 10:32 AM |
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| Maxlugar |
Caro,
9/11 has given us no choice but to take the fight to our enemies. Not fighting back after 9/11 would been much worse. The fact that 19 plane hijackers can do what they did has scared the living crap out of us. Worse, it most definitley gave others ideas. In order to prevent us from being destroyed by islamic fundementalist, we need to transform the cess pool known as the middle east. We could argue for weeks about how it became a cess pool but the facts remain it is in serious need of change. I believe we are doing that now and the citizens of these "countries" will be more for us than against us in the decades to come. The individual questions you ask will need to be address when and if they happen. It doesn't change the idea that major work needed to be done in this area of the world. We will gain more allies than enemies in the long run. People love liberty.
If not? We could always nuke them. There's a plan B for ya!
MACKY! |
| November 11th, 2004 10:35 AM |
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| jb |
Plus I lost around 288k dollars as a result of the stock market tanking after 9/11...these attacks are not only designed to terrify us, but to destroy our economic infrastructure....... |
| November 11th, 2004 10:37 AM |
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| Bloozehound |
quote:
jb wrote:
Plus I lost around 288k dollars as a result of the stock market tanking after 9/11...these attacks are not only designed to terrify us, but to destroy our economic infrastructure.......
yes
[Edited by Bloozehound] |
| November 11th, 2004 10:38 AM |
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| Maxlugar |
You only "lost" it if you sold it when it was low Josh.
I trust you bought serious amounts more when it was low and are now lighting cigars with $100 bills now that it is back up.
Dow at 10410.92 up 25 as I type this.
Go ahead, buy another Porsche. You make more. Bush is here for another 4 years.
MACKY! |
| November 11th, 2004 10:40 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
Bloozehound wrote:
yes
I lost more than that
Sorry to hear that.....I am hesistant to put anything in the market and may get involved in buying luxury hotel units which are rented out.... |
| November 11th, 2004 10:40 AM |
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| nankerphelge |
By using the term "war on terror" -- the entire notion is amorphous and ambiguous for good reason -- you want to be able to act against a variety of threats in a variety of ways. One of the most successful "fronts" on the war has been determining where the funding goes (and comes from) -- that is critical not only because you can deprive the "terrorists" of the funding necessary to operate, but also because it identifies members and in many cases, state-sponsorship.
I fully expect that attacks will continue -- most people in the intelligence community in this country have stated that it is not a matter of if, but when we get our next attack. But should we instead do nothing and let them hold that fear over our heads? Try and compromise with someone who doesn't want to compromise? Where is the logic in that?
Try this little logic game in your head -- you have two people -- one wants the other dead, the other wants to try and negotiate a non-death pact. Play it a hundred times -- a thousand -- who wins every time??
The best we can do is continue to try and disrupt the operations before they happen and hold accountable anyone that is involved -- whether before or after the fact. If we have solid evidence that Syria or Lebannon or Iran or North Korea are involved -- we should definitely put an end to it. And yes that may involve more wars. Or it may involve North Korea and Iran and Syria and Lebannon realizing (as did Libya - a clear success) that playing that game with the US and its allies (whether all or one) is not worth it.
Max wrote "If not? We could always nuke them. There's a plan B for ya!"
Exactly!
[Edited by nankerphelge] |
| November 11th, 2004 10:41 AM |
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| jb |
I think those who live in New York City and Washington D.C. deserve extra credit.
[Edited by jb] |
| November 11th, 2004 10:42 AM |
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| telecaster |
jb after 9/11 I lost 90% of my business for 2 yrs
I know who to blame
Not Bush
Not Kerry
Not Liberals
Not France
I personally want to cut of his nuts
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| November 11th, 2004 10:43 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
jb after 9/11 I lost 90% of my business for 2 yrs
I know who to blame
Not Bush
Not Kerry
Not Liberals
Not France
I personally want to cut of his nuts
Tele, my brother-in-law was a recruiter making around 300k a year pre-911. He is still trying to rebuild his business as he virtually lost everything....I think he makes around 60k a year...feel bad for him ...
[Edited by jb] |
| November 11th, 2004 10:47 AM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
jb wrote:
Tele, my brother-in-law was a recruiter making around 300k a year pre-911. He is still trying to rebuild his business as he virtually lost everything....I think he makes around 60k a year...feel bad for him ...
[Edited by jb]
Tell me about it.
I know a poster here who was in the Twin Towers hours
before they fell
Like you jb, he is a good guy
jb can that Porsche SUV carry groceries? |
| November 11th, 2004 10:49 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Tell me about it.
I know a poster here who was in the Twin Towers hours
before they fell
Like you jb, he is a good guy
jb can that Porsche SUV carry groceries?
Yes..has decent trunk space....it's a load of fun , but still hard to rationalize spending 102k for a truck.... |
| November 11th, 2004 10:55 AM |
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| caro |
Damn, I have to go. I'll be back later with a brand new set of questions. In the meantime, your plan B is ineligible. If you nuke them, you'll kill all those sweet little camels, and your kids will be pissed off with you for the next three decades. |
| November 11th, 2004 11:01 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
caro wrote:
Damn, I have to go. I'll be back later with a brand new set of questions. In the meantime, your plan B is ineligible. If you nuke them, you'll kill all those sweet little camels, and your kids will be pissed off with you for the next three decades.
Amen Caro----------------------> |
| November 11th, 2004 11:20 AM |
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| jb |
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/11/11/arafat_the_monster/ |
| November 11th, 2004 11:39 AM |
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| Mikey |
This is a good thread - we need more terrorists to die. |
| November 11th, 2004 11:51 AM |
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| keith_tif |
I wasn't always neither Arafat neither Sharon, I just want a thing that peace win in Palestin! And it will be a great progress for Humanity!
I want to say also that many conflicts in World are due to religions like Israëlien-palestinien war. The solution is to make disappear all religions and life on this planet wiil be happier than before!
RELIGINS ARE RUBBISH!!!!!!! |
| November 11th, 2004 11:55 AM |
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| Gazza |
Fair point.
The religions arent really the problem IMO, its the blind and stupid fucking idiots that follow them that is. |
| November 11th, 2004 11:58 AM |
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| jb |
quote:
keith_tif wrote:
I wasn't always neither Arafat neither Sharon, I just want a thing that peace win in Palestin! And it will be a great progress for Humanity!
I want to say also that many conflicts in World are due to religions like Israëlien-palestinien war. The solution is to make disappear all religions and life on this planet wiil be happier than before!
RELIGINS ARE RUBBISH!!!!!!!
Amen---------------------------> |
| November 11th, 2004 12:02 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Caro does bring up a good point though....when is it over? Are we suggesting that the US is now to be involved in a perpetual war? Bush himself has stated that he does not think we can ever really win the "War on Terror". So what the fuck are we doing?
Maxy, I fully agree that the US had to respond militarily after 9/11. And we did, in Afghanistan. That was a proper course of action. There was large international support, and many many nations sent troops.
But we didn't see it through. We are still there, with not enough troops to finish the job. Bush decided that Iraq was more important than getting Bin Laden. That was where he dropped the ball. Intelligence mistake or not....it was still a mistake, and one that Bush refuses to admit that he made. Meanwhile, while our troops are bleeding all over Iraq, Bin Laden is still out there plotting more attacks and releasing more tapes. I don't know about you, but I sure as shit don't feel any safer.
Is the world better off without Saddam? Probably, the guy was an evil monster. But we don't know yet if the next regime that eventually takes hold in Iraq will be better or worse. But ridding Iraq of Saddam is NOT what the American people...and the people of the world...were told was the reason for invading a sovreign nation. Bush told everyone that Saddam had WMDs, and was linked to 9/11. These were the reasons our government stated. The first part was a mistake, the second part was just a lie, pure fabrication. It was a pretty good lie too, I bought it at first. Unfortunately, truth has a way of rearing it's ugly head and ruining everything.
I wore a uniform and carried an m-16. It is my view that if you are going to spill our soldier's blood, it had better be unavoidable. A last resort. And if the order to go has to be given, you better have a real fucking plan to win the thing. My brothers and sisters in arms should not have their blood spilled cheaply. It better be for the right fucking reasons. Mistakes and lies are NOT good enough reasons.
So why did everything go all quagmire on us in Iraq? Simple. Something that the Bush administration was counting on didn't happen. The Iraqis didn't fall in love with us. There was no welcoming with open arms and gratitude. When Saddam fell Iraqis danced in the street(well, some Iraqis danced in the streets, others vowed revenge.)...for about a day. Then we started seeing the signs..."Saddam is gone, Bush go home". Bush and his cronies showed a remarkable ignorance of the Iraqi people, and that culture in general.
We don't have enough troops, we are seriously undermanned. And Bush's plan for training and arming a new Iraqi army is near suicidal. Less than a year ago most of these people were trying to kill our guys....now we are giving them really good weapons, and teaching them better, more efficient ways to kill us....ummm, errr, I mean kill insurgents. In the meantime, terrorist groups have an easily reached, target rich training ground to get their people ready.
So now what? The situation is completely FUBAR. Total clusterfuck. And our newly elected fucknut of a President keeps saying that we are "on the right track". I don't have any ideas how to fix it, but I can tell if it's broke. Something has to change.
Like it or not, we are in Iraq. It's far too late to just pull out and leave. But to continue as we are now just won't cut it. Obviously, despite what our dashingly flight suited Commander-in-Cheif said, mission NOT accomplished. Somebody in Washington DC better get their shit together, and come up with a workable plan to end this thing. I do not want my son to grow up in a society of perpetual war. |
| November 11th, 2004 12:04 PM |
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| Joey |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Caro does bring up a good point though....when is it over? Are we suggesting that the US is now to be involved in a perpetual war? Bush himself has stated that he does not think we can ever really win the "War on Terror". So what the fuck are we doing?
Maxy, I fully agree that the US had to respond militarily after 9/11. And we did, in Afghanistan. That was a proper course of action. There was large international support, and many many nations sent troops.
But we didn't see it through. We are still there, with not enough troops to finish the job. Bush decided that Iraq was more important than getting Bin Laden. That was where he dropped the ball. Intelligence mistake or not....it was still a mistake, and one that Bush refuses to admit that he made. Meanwhile, while our troops are bleeding all over Iraq, Bin Laden is still out there plotting more attacks and releasing more tapes. I don't know about you, but I sure as shit don't feel any safer.
Is the world better off without Saddam? Probably, the guy was an evil monster. But we don't know yet if the next regime that eventually takes hold in Iraq will be better or worse. But ridding Iraq of Saddam is NOT what the American people...and the people of the world...were told was the reason for invading a sovreign nation. Bush told everyone that Saddam had WMDs, and was linked to 9/11. These were the reasons our government stated. The first part was a mistake, the second part was just a lie, pure fabrication. It was a pretty good lie too, I bought it at first. Unfortunately, truth has a way of rearing it's ugly head and ruining everything.
I wore a uniform and carried an m-16. It is my view that if you are going to spill our soldier's blood, it had better be unavoidable. A last resort. And if the order to go has to be given, you better have a real fucking plan to win the thing. My brothers and sisters in arms should not have their blood spilled cheaply. It better be for the right fucking reasons. Mistakes and lies are NOT good enough reasons.
So why did everything go all quagmire on us in Iraq? Simple. Something that the Bush administration was counting on didn't happen. The Iraqis didn't fall in love with us. There was no welcoming with open arms and gratitude. When Saddam fell Iraqis danced in the street(well, some Iraqis danced in the streets, others vowed revenge.)...for about a day. Then we started seeing the signs..."Saddam is gone, Bush go home". Bush and his cronies showed a remarkable ignorance of the Iraqi people, and that culture in general.
We don't have enough troops, we are seriously undermanned. And Bush's plan for training and arming a new Iraqi army is near suicidal. Less than a year ago most of these people were trying to kill our guys....now we are giving them really good weapons, and teaching them better, more efficient ways to kill us....ummm, errr, I mean kill insurgents. In the meantime, terrorist groups have an easily reached, target rich training ground to get their people ready.
So now what? The situation is completely FUBAR. Total clusterfuck. And our newly elected fucknut of a President keeps saying that we are "on the right track". I don't have any ideas how to fix it, but I can tell if it's broke. Something has to change.
Like it or not, we are in Iraq. It's far too late to just pull out and leave. But to continue as we are now just won't cut it. Obviously, despite what our dashingly flight suited Commander-in-Cheif said, mission NOT accomplished. Somebody in Washington DC better get their shit together, and come up with a workable plan to end this thing. I do not want my son to grow up in a society of perpetual war.
Cassie Yates ! ™ |
| November 11th, 2004 12:05 PM |
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| jb |
Amen SS----------------------------> |
| November 11th, 2004 12:08 PM |
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| Joey |
<--------------------Amen SS---------------------------->
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| November 11th, 2004 12:09 PM |
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| keith_tif |
gazza:
if there weren't religions, there were nobody to follow them. And the problem is surely religion!
NO RELIGIONS=NO PROBLEMS |
| November 11th, 2004 12:23 PM |
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| jb |
<-------------amen keith_tif------------------->
[Edited by jb] |
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