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The Tour is Over!
Hong Kong Harbour Fest, November 9, 2003 by Mike Clarke
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Topic: Mick and Exile Return to archive Page: 1 2
10-22-03 09:16 AM
corgi37 Maybe the main trouble is that the band are just too wealthy and successful. Sound corny, but i have been thinking about this for a couple of days now. Exile was made at a time when the band, after 9 years of huge influence and success, was broke (well, their version of broke was earning $12g a week). So, the whole thing about being hungry, about really getting down to business, working ya asses off, was evident. After the 72-73 tours, success of Goats, tour of 75..heck right up to 81-82, the really really big bucks poured in. Then...they have massive fights, jagger goes solo to rid himself of the millstone around his neck (his words), Keith goes solo for something to do, they release so-so successful albums at longer and longer intervals, tour massively, charge massively... until we get to the stage where there is no new stuff but 4 crappy songs and another tour. I say the success of 81-82 fucked them up. They didnt make music for the sake of it. They made it for the dosh. Particularly since 89. Fuck, 3 studio albums in 14 years! At least they made new stuff to tour behind, until this time. Why couldnt they release 40 licks, plus a another cd full of REAL rarities/unreleased stuff. Dont give me the "dont wanna know about the past, wanna move on" schtick, cause the whole past year has been about the past. I would never wish nothing but unparelled success for them, and i adored the show i saw this year as proof of how great they still are. I love them for their arrogance and power. But, shit, i wouldnt mind if they got taken down a peg or two, just to fire them up a bit to actually release something new and vital. Like, they do a show, and no one turns up.
P.S. Gee, that was a negative post, wasnt it? And particularly since they've done such a long tour. Ungrateful prick that i am.
10-22-03 10:14 AM
T&A Ah, don't be so hard on yourself, Corgi, we're all a bunch of snivling, ungrateful pricks. We snivle; that's what we do.
10-22-03 11:06 AM
jb I agree 100% with Corgi...they have not actually funtioned as a working band outside the huge tours...3malbums in 14 years is indicative of their (Mick and Keith's) total lack of any real r/s outside of these mega-grosing tours...They don't write together or record together anymore and the product reflects this..
10-22-03 11:15 AM
T&A We snivle - and JB is our King....
10-22-03 11:35 AM
jb Thank YOu.
10-22-03 11:40 AM
Joey

Josh ..............how was the game last night ?

J.
10-22-03 11:55 AM
jb Extremely disappointing...it was quite a pitching duel until the ninth....we just kept stranding runners and I knew sooner or later the Yankees would get some runs....It was a long evening as the rain delays were brutal and the the resulting loss made it worse...On a bright note, Gloria Estefan sang the national anthem beautifully.
[Edited by jb]
10-22-03 12:04 PM
Joey " On a bright note, Gloria Estefan sang the national anthem beautifully. "


..............................................

[ Unbelievable Academy Award Winning Editing Job by the Jacky ! ]

SKEE !
10-22-03 12:05 PM
KeithRichards210 Well JB, at least your team is IN the Series..

Overall, I'd say it's a tough one. I think NY will take it, but I bet it'll take all 7 games..
10-23-03 11:16 AM
macawber its great that keith plays for free and its that damn jagger that charges us all the money.keith just does it for the love of the music.
keith is so dedicated to the stones he once said he would slit jaggers throat if he[jagger]ever toured with another band,keith would NEVER tour with another band outside of the stones.
keith is "mr rock and roll"-look at all the great music he put out since 97,jagger only put out dogshit in the doorway.

its "peter pan syndrome"to try to make music that is relevant and that people would really want to listen to.
the stones should put out all ballads and hoagy carmichael standards, that should pack em in.

that "keith is the stones" shit is so old..the "human riff"seems to spend most of his time trying to come up with witty remarks to journalists,most of it back stabbing his partner.he reminds me of an article i read about greg allman,they asked him why he quit drinking and he said"when you drink too much everything you play sounds the same..
10-23-03 12:07 PM
jb You are again right on point Macawber...Keith has gotten a free ride way to long...It is he, not Mick, who has become a parody of himself...He "0ff the cuff "are in fact rehearsed and made simply to illicit a reaction no matter at whose expense...Keith could get awya with a lot of stuff in the past b/c of his legendary status...but truth be told, he decline has come so rapidly, but for Jagger, the Stones would cease to exist...
10-23-03 01:24 PM
macawber you know it jb,keith has gotten a free ride for a helluva long time.all of his riffs are now just recycled things from his solo records.its telling that the best guitar on bridges[saint of me] was a song he didn't play on.
but the low point- mouthing off and then getting punked by elton john.
stones fans can admit it or not but that wig wearing little homo kicked keiths ass..that comment:"he looks like a monkey with arthritis,its pathetic,they should have kicked him out of the band years ago" was a slam dunk.

10-23-03 02:30 PM
jb LOL....I despise Elton, but he certainly knew about keith's deterirating skills long before we did...
10-23-03 03:27 PM
Diedre Oh, don't be so hard on Keith. He's had a hard life, because he can't live honestly. That can't be easy. If he finds peace in writing semi-confessional ballads and romantic cover songs, so be it.

10-23-03 03:39 PM
jb Diedre, we all should have such hard lives as Keith...untold millions, all the drugs you ever wanted, fame, admiration, etc....he has, IMO, quite an easy life...since he was 19 years old, the guy has been a "superstar" and his every wish and desire has come true...Of course we all love Keith, but he brought it on himself with his constant attacks on others, without looking in first....
10-23-03 10:20 PM
corgi37 you know,on even further reflection, i reckon i can pinpoint 2 things that have certainly not helped the terrible malais the band is in. 1. Now i have thought of this for a long time, but what the band really needs, has needed, is a manager. Some one like Pete Rudge from the 70's. It would be quite difficult as the band are just too big and powerful, and Jagger/richards are not used to being told what to do by anyone since the 76 tour, but thats what they need. Some one to kick their asses into gear a bit. Some one to lock them in a room until they come out with some songs, ala Andrew Oldham way way back when. The 2nd thing that has (in my opinion) fucked them up is the untimely death of Ian "Stu" Stewart. He was the one person the guys listened to. The one guy who would tell them a song sucked or that they sounded terrible. I dont reckon its coincidence that as soon as he died, they recorded a fairly terrible record (Dirty Work) and got involved in such childish spats that the band nearly ended. Then, of course, when the next tour began and subsequent tours since, the onstage personnel has become like a mini army, and uninspiring wankers like "Our" Chuck take over as musical directors. Can you imagine stu doing a piano solo during Honky Tonk, and finishing it off with a foot on the keyboard?? Oh, and not just once, or even twice, but consistantly for 14 bloody years???
10-24-03 08:11 AM
Diedre Just because you're rich and famous is no guarantee you'll be happy, especially if you've had lifelong pressure to create and live up to a false image. Though I guess Keith has done his job if most can't figure out what probably drove him to do some of the things he's done. Really, the guy has love in his heart, so it's forgiveable.

Plus, he's not the sole reason the Stones have supposedly declined. Maybe Mick tries harder, but he also has questionable taste, so his musical instincts are not better. He's the one that always seemed most interested in growing the band's fan base, which often resulted in alienating the existing fan base.
10-24-03 01:52 PM
macawber the truth is there is no rolling stones-the stones broke up during the making of dirty work in the mid-eighties.
they had a reunion tour and album in 1989/90 and that was it.
in the time since, a cover band consisting of mick jagger,charlie watts,chuck leavell,keith richards, daryl jones and guitarist ron wood, who was with the stones in the later part of their career,has been on tour.
luckily,the"vegas stones" or "rolling stones revue" has only attempted two albums in their 15 years together.
producer don was[who is known for his work with diana ross and bette midler]was brought in to give the vegas stones a more slick modern sound.at times they've used rap samples and even appeared onstage with justin timberlake to keep things more contemporary.
the jagger/richards tag is still left on any new songs even though mick and keith write alone and bring their songs into sessions to be touched up by the group. this resulted in the band being sued in the late 90's because don was used a line-[the"yeah,oh yeah'in out of control] he had stolen from another artist he had worked with.
still waiting for that great new album???
10-24-03 02:06 PM
macawber oops -the line the sones were sued over was the the" yeah,oh yeah" chorus on saint of me,not out of control
10-24-03 02:07 PM
jb Sadly, you are again 100% correct Macawber...and you know, they say as much in the new book I just read "According to the Stones"...Mick and Keith have absolutely nothing to do with one another outside of keeping the corporate entity a/k/a cash cow "Rolling Stones" going every 2-3 yrs...Indeed, the more rigorous touring over the last decade was not inspired by new music, better playing , or real interest, but instead, Jagger and Richards knowing that their touring time is limited and essentially the increased frequency in touring was to capture all remaining income to be had. From a selfish point of view, it's been great getting to see them so many times over the past 10 years, but in reality, it was not the Rolling Stones, but as you say, Mick Jagger and a background of musicians and singers with only Charlie have some overall consistency. Mick and Keith, contrary to this image of them being like a bickering couple who really care for one another, truly have no desire to ever really work together as collaborators again...it's Mick's mixes, combined with Keith's hideous ballads, and some fancy producers that ultimately spit out another unremarkable album....I guess you could say they have earned a right to rest on their laurels, and I guess it's just a pipe dream to ever think they will come out with another classic album or play like days of old...but you can't help just wondering if they put aside their egos for just once, could that magic ever be reproduced...I doubt we will ever know.
10-24-03 02:53 PM
Boomy I would love for them to make a great, new album. An album where they wrote the songs together..not Keith "sprinkling fairy dust" on Mick's ideas to make it a Rolling Stones song.

But that is a dream. Just like the people saying how great the next album is going to be...how the fuck do you know it's going to be great!!!??? The latest released music (although I like some songs from B2B) from these guys is just something to have a reason to tour behind.

I really think the guys should explain themselves for what they really are: A Nostalgia Act. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Just because you release something new doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean you are keeping it fresh...hell, most people could give a damn about new material from the Stones.

The thing is, the latest material just seems forced...like they want to get it out to make it seem like they are a relative band in the current market. They aren't, though. That's the problem. Take hints from Dylan and the late Johnny Cash: Just make music that comes from the heart. Why abandon what made you what you are known as today? Because you say you "always hate nostalgia"? Bull honky, MIck!!!

Just make good music..
10-24-03 03:21 PM
jb Your correct Hoosier Boy...it's a dream....By the way, Pat Riley just resigned as the Heat's head coach...I knew we were going to be bad, and Riley knows it as well..get off a sinking ship before any fiurther damage is done to his legacy...maybe the Stones should do the same..
10-24-03 03:28 PM
macawber it's only ego that fucked them up,mostly keiths.if he would've just kept his mouth shut after he came off the junk and left things alone they would've been fine.
instead what did he do-after almost ending the band by getting busted in toronto he wakes up[after being carried by jagger for ten years]and starts fighting over whos the leader of the band.what an ingrate.
i talked to a guy once who was a ...whatever they call them these days...professional roadie.all those guys know each other and he said the guys who work the stones tours all laugh about how much the stones hate each others guts.
it IS sad because if things had been different they could've still been the real stones.all i know is that i feel sorry for those people waiting for this great new record thats never gonna happen.think about it-they haven't done anything since 97 and those 4 songs on 40 licks were the best they could do?the songwriting thing-its over

10-24-03 03:41 PM
jb I agree...Keith finally "wakes-up" after 10 years of addiction, and is jealous that Mick has taken control of the band. I am sure Jagger relished the power, but it was just as much as result of Keith's not being able to handle the business of the Stones given his addictions, as that of Jaggers power play. What really happened, is that Keith, as he became sober, became jealous of Jagger getting all the attention....Therefore, IMO, Keith deliberately went out of his way to alienate and attack Jagger both on a professional and personal level. Ron Wood acknowledges this in the book stating Keith would get pissed in the early 80's if Ron would hang out with Mick...The "riff" in the r/s became so untenable that the result was the vast wasteland that the 80's proved to be for the Stones. Since 89 on , it has been a business accomadation at best b/t the two of them....This has resulted in very marginal albums buffered by the huge success of the tours....Unfortunately, the # of people seeing the Stones has reduced significantly each successive tour for whatever reasons(price, over-exposure,etc). I give them credit for pulling off the "40 Licks" tour given the lack of new material and the fact they just toured a couple of years prior thereto. However, except for us hardcores, I believe their fan base is diminishing and the ability to continue to conduct these huge tours and draw well may be coming to an end...

[Edited by jb]
10-24-03 04:10 PM
macawber thats exactly why i laugh when people think keith"stop throwing things at justin"richards is the soul of the stones.the guy has spent too much time reading his own press clippings.if he cared more about the band than anything else he would've just shut up and went with the flow.
what does he do instead,throws such a tantrum that the band breaks up,then runs to the media and attacks mick.what a dickhead.they were still on a roll at that point,in case anyone forgot, dirty work had a top ten single.their last.
when they came back it was all nostalgia,the steel wheelchair tour.
10-24-03 06:14 PM
Mikey Interesting irony that a poster with a username of the name one of Keith's guitars would be so anit-Keith.

Unless that's your real name?
10-25-03 01:22 AM
beer
quote:
macawber wrote:
they were still on a roll at that point,in case anyone forgot, dirty work had a top ten single.their last.
when they came back it was all nostalgia,the steel wheelchair tour.





do you seriuosly think that Dirty Work should have been the epitaph for the stones? that album was worse than anything they've put out in the don was years. or did he produce that shit too?
even steel wheels was better that DW.



10-25-03 02:24 AM
Jaxx >>>>the truth is there is no rolling stones-the stones broke up during the making of dirty work in the mid-eighties.
they had a reunion tour and album in 1989/90 and that was it.

following this logic, why not conclude that the stones have been a cover band since brian jones left the band in june of '69? in stone alone wyman states that brian jones influenced the band long after his death. brian brought them the moroccan joujouka sound and sited the use of that sound on the steel wheels album--20 years later. BJ was also their lead guitar player. he also mastered, on his own, several instruments used to enhance the rolling stones sound. there are many who believe him to be the founder of the band.....so following this logic, quite possibly they have been a cover band since '69!
11-01-03 02:55 PM
macawber jaxx wrote:"following this logic why not conclude the stones have been a cover band since brian jones left in 1969"

lets do some math-1969 to 1986= 17 years,right? in those 17 years the stones reeled off 11 studio albums [8-#1's]including sticky fingers,exile,some girls and tattoo you.this material is about 80-90% of the live show.

86 to 03-the next 17 years that was good for 1, maybe 2 songs a night on the licks tour.do you really believe a fully functional band only puts out 3 records in almost two decades?
by the way,isn't there supposed to be five guys in the stones,i see four at the press conference and like 15 onstage.one night i saw a guy who looked like harpo marx up there and he was PLAYING A GUITAR!!

we're covering ourselves"keith richards at a press conference,2003-[video on rs.com]
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