| November 6th, 2005 07:54 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
Interview with John Cale
interviewed by Christopher Steffen
November 02, 2005/Oklahoma Daily
The Oklahoma Daily: “Turn the Lights On” is a standout track on “blackAcetate:” - it has a lot more of a driving tempo to it than anything you've done. How did that song come about?
John Cale: I decided to attack songwriting from the guitar point of view. It was one of the things in the studio I was working in - the guy that owned the studio had this wall covered with amps - every vintage amp. In some cases, some of the amps had matching lap steel [guitars] with them, they were made for lap steel. I was sitting around with a Les Paul and seeing which of the amps I liked - I had five of them lined up - there was one that was really dark sounding, so out of messing around, I came up with the riff for “Turn the Lights On.” We added more guitars than that, of course, but for the most part, it was Herb [Graham Jr.] and I on that track.
The Oklahoma Daily: Has that one made it into the live set yet?
John Cale: It's in there. This band that's on the road with me is the band you'll hear on a track called “Soul Motel,” and that was the last track we recorded, and I ran into these guys - we went and did the first part of the European leg, and this is the first part of the U.S. leg - we'll be back for part two next year.
The Oklahoma Daily: You mentioned approaching the album from a guitarists' perspective…
John Cale: Yeah, to begin with, I was trying to get into different areas of songwriting. There's beautiful things on “Hobo Sapiens,” don't get me wrong, the keyboard that's there has some real depth to it and some hypnosis that I like, but I wanted to trying something else. I went the electric guitar route and got some of those together, and I was trying to get into writing basic grooves. On “Hobo,” I took the grooves off the system, out of Logic and out of Pro Tools. I had some DJ friends that gave me some loops. This time, I sat down and tried to write my own, and tried to get as much variety as I could. Herb helped me with that. The thing that gave me the most optimism was “Hush,” because I dropped the bass, and it works - it stands upright, it's funky, it's sexy, and it's got no bass. I took that style of writing and found a minimalist sort of element that I could do a lot with.
The Oklahoma Daily: When Pro Tools came out, how long did it take you to come around to doing things digitally?
John Cale: I've been using Pro Tools for years to do soundtracks. I liked it right away. I'm a techno-slut. When you're doing films, you throw in the time code into Pro Tools, and it talks to the film, and it's simple. You lock it in and go running back and play it again - after working with it, I got faster and faster with it, and then I learned about Logic, and I think both are really different and unique, and there's interesting things about each of them. The way “Hobo” turned out, I recorded in Pro Tools and mixed in Logic, and this one, I recorded in Logic and mixed in Pro Tools. They don't really talk to each other very well, the systems are snotty to each other, but one of these days they'll get it. It's like Linux - okay, I know Windows and Mac exist together in one sphere.
The Oklahoma Daily: When you're using something like Pro Tools, do you feel that besides all the good things it brings, you might lose a little something as opposed to analog recording?
John Cale: I hope not - you're dealing with data. If you lose [stuff], your system's screwed. I always try to make it really warm. I don't want to have a techno-sounding album. I don't think you can say that either “Hobo” or this one sounds cold and techno. I go to a lot of trouble to make sure it's warm. The bottom line is that the way I write, I improvise a lot. I don't write songs out of the studio - I go into the studio and I write the songs there. They way to do that is to improvise until you get it the way you like it. In my case, I have a very bad memory, so I'm really glad I have computers around to remember it for me. Those [brain] cells are gone, man.
The Oklahoma Daily: Makes me wonder how the first Stooges album would have sounded if it was done in Pro Tools.
John Cale: The thing was that the first Stooges album took five days. I don't know how much faster you could be. I guess you could get it done in a day. They were very together.
The Oklahoma Daily: Your collaborations with Brian Eno have been pretty interesting. Have you done anything with him lately?
John Cale: No, the last time I spoke to Brian was around when I was doing “Hobo.” I went over and he gave me this loop for “Bicycle.” It was a lot of fun. I see him every now and again when I'm in London, but I'm not there often enough to hang out and be that involved in what he's doing.
The Oklahoma Daily: In your book [“What's Welsh For Zen,” an autobiography], you mention that you think your best work comes out when you have a creative partner or collaborative foil, be it Lou [Reed] or any of the people you've worked with down the road. How have you adapted to doing it on your own?
John Cale: Well, you're assuming that I haven't been working with a collaborator. No matter what, as co-producer, Herb Graham is a collaborator. I enjoy working with people, I learn from them. I may not agree with them, but I do learn from them.
The Oklahoma Daily: At South by Southwest, you closed your set with “Venus in Furs.” What does it take for you to decide if you're going to throw in a song like that?
John Cale: Well, I've been trying to get rid of it for a while, I've been trying to replace it. It's not that difficult to sing and play that. Singing and playing a viola is tricky, but I need to give it another thought. Holding a drone is a no-brainer, but I'm trying to find something interesting and worthwhile to sing.
The Oklahoma Daily: Your choice of covers has been interesting. You did Leonard Cohen's “Hallelujah” and Elvis Presley's “Heartbreak Hotel.” Your version of “Heartbreak Hotel” almost sounds like the first version where the music actually matches how depressed the lyrics are. It's hard to see how it could have been originally recorded so uptempo.
John Cale: Well, the lyrics were the first thing that struck me about it. You can hear every personality of he people involved in it in each of the verses. I tell you, I sang it at the Elvis fiftieth anniversary show in Memphis at the arena, and Aaron Neville and Iggy [Pop] and everyone was doing an Elvis song, and they were doing it really well, uptempo versions - I came out with a string quartet and did this really dark screeching gothic version of it, and the average age of the people at the places was between sixty and seventy - they were all just sitting there with their mouths open, they didn't know what to make of it. They took it off the broadcast, I think. But they put it on the international broadcast, because some friends of mine saw it.
The Oklahoma Daily: Something that you do sometimes - perhaps this is more of a live improvised thing - is just speaking and telling stories over music, providing narration.
John Cale: That's the best thing that rock and roll is about, is storytelling. I remember Lou playing me some R & B number about a guy sitting on his couch talking his girl and wondering, 'Why have I got this gun in my hand?' Geez. In three minutes and thirty seconds, you have this huge scenario cut into stone for you. There's this country and western one called “Laurie” [popularized by Dickey Lee] about a girl who asks to borrow a kid's sweater at a dance and he leaves without getting it back, and he goes to her house and the mother and father say, “You've got to be mistaken, our daughter died years ago,” and he goes to the graveyard, and there over her gravestone is a sweater. I think those kinds of things are what drive Kris Kristofferson's writing. A little more elaborate, but really hardcore stories.
The Oklahoma Daily: The Velvet Underground was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1996. What was your reaction to that at the time?
John Cale: It was far too emotional. Sterling [Morrison, Velvet Underground guitarist and bassist] had just died, and we were very upset.
The Oklahoma Daily: Improvising is on the decline in rock. How do you see yourself moving within the flow of the way rock music is going today?
John Cale: I don't know. I can't be that self-absorbed, I just try to write interesting songs and do it differently every time. I'm trying to learn new things. There's some people out there who like what I do, and I'm hoping that they increase in number.
The Oklahoma Daily: Do you have a favorite aspect of the music-making process at this point, be it writing, recording, our playing live?
John Cale: Well, the real immediate satisfaction always comes from performing. It's the most gratifying.
The Oklahoma Daily: In your book, you mentioned how when the Velvet Underground went to the West Coast, you butted heads with Frank Zappa and his band, and you felt that they were mocking music more than creating it.
John Cale: They took the piss out of us. The guys on the trip, somebody had been very inconsiderate and painted an emblem on our door with a gravestone that said “RIP Velvet Underground” on it, and they were laying in wait. Andy [Warhol] was such an incredible generator of publicity that they all wanted…the only reason Zappa was on those gigs was that Herb Cohen knew that he'd get all this publicity from Andy and us. The thing is about Frank, that was reinforced years after I saw him, is that he had a very acerbic wit, which was kind of enjoyable, but at the same time, I really can't say there was anything about his music or him that made me love music. There was something about him, I think it was a real deep-seeded anger and fury about being forced to learn music in the first place - there was a revenge factor there - but it made me very uncomfortable watching him. There was so much putting down of himself that wasn't pleasant. I lost the gleam of innocence that you get from somebody really enjoying a melody or a solo or anything like that. And he could rip off [play, not pilfer] all these incredible solos, and you knew the guy had tremendous talent, but there was never anything there that made me love music so I'd want to do it. The reason you're doing this is to show how people how exciting and enjoyable this is. It's a shared experience. People shouldn't be punished for sharing an experience.
The Oklahoma Daily: When you first began discovering music, you were drawn to the composers. What was it about composing that you found so compelling?
John Cale: You do it because you enjoy creating things, that's all it is. Some people like creating dishes in the kitchen, some people like designing furniture. I like making noise.
The Oklahoma Daily: You said that one day you wanted to write a symphony that would make people's hair stand on end.
John Cale: Yeah, what else did I know when I was fifteen? I got to learn really fast. I was fortunate to be in educational systems and work with composers who just let me do whatever the hell I wanted. I went around London doing everything I wanted, and learned a lot from the process.
The Oklahoma Daily: Do you think something like that is possible today?
John Cale: Yeah, go to a liberal arts college. The warden of the college was really into different elements of education. He was constantly on the warpath with surrounding schools, and it was very rare to find people like that. He really stood behind me. He was remarkable.
The Oklahoma Daily: What advice would you give to someone that was interested in following the same path you followed in the sixties?
John Cale: Rummage around, use the Web. I didn't have the Web, but I rummaged around. Wherever you can find information - it's hard to find good information these days - and it's not going to get any easier, so hone your skills.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
| November 6th, 2005 04:46 PM |
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| Neocon |
Has this guy done anything of much note since Lou Reed fired him from VU? I heard his album with Lou a few years back, "Songs for Drella." It wasn't too bad. Much better than Lou's last album which ranks amongst the worst albums ever, although I think I liked Hop Frog. |
| November 6th, 2005 06:05 PM |
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| Prodigal Son |
Actually, Cale made quite a few good albums such as "Fear" and "Guts," during the era of punk. He's not quite as good as Lou, but his solo career had some great moments. |
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