ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board

Get well George!
[Ch1: Sike-ay-delic 60's] [Ch2: Random Sike-ay-delia] [Ch3: British Invasion]
Support these stations! Click and check



Search for goods, you'll find the impossible collector's item!!!
Enter artist OR start searching using "Power Search" (RECOMMENDED) inside.
Search for information in the wet page, the archives and this board:


ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
Register | Update Profile | F.A.Q. | Admin Control Panel

Topic: Mick Should Fire Keith Return to archive Page: 1 2
10-24-01 09:49 AM
Robert Schneeweiss WFTS,

Of course I'll go, hopefully to more then one show (Toronto, Detroit, Buffalo and New York City would be nice). It's clear that Mick hasn't lost his vocals while Keith always has the opportunity to clean up his act. For a kid whose gotten into the classic albums, I really have no alternative but to hope that the band can grasp some of the magic from the 60s and 70s. Playing some obscure material like SOTE is definitely a good start.
10-24-01 11:46 AM
FujiSaki I agree with Maxy, Keith's certainly as good as ever. hell, No Security has some of the best guitar playing of his career. If No Security had Mick Taylor instead of Ron Wood, it would be as good as Ya Yas. (almost, anyway).
10-24-01 12:10 PM
Mikey I love Keith and the boys as much as anybody else. But, that being said, its impossible that Keith has the same guitar chops as he did earlier in his career. He's almost 60! I'm a guitar player, I know what is involved. Is anybody else? The only one that seems to not have lost a step in pure playing ability is Clapton.

HOWEVER, what has been even more impressive is Keith's ability to change his style. Those looking for vicious guitar interplay between him and Ronnie (a la 75' Sympathy or 73' Brussels Affair Rambler with M Taylor) will not find them. But Keith knows his strengths and picks and chooses his moments, and that's his brilliance. He's going to provide that steady chugging rhythm (All Down the Line, Let it Bleed, JJF) along with select guitar fills that make the song shine. For a great example, put on the 1997 Bridges to St. Louis show and play "Saint of Me" and listen to the graceful notes Keith layers behind Mick's "I couldn't stand the torture, I couldn't stand the pain" line along with nice licks during the bridge, right before Ronnie's solo. I say he's due for a promotion!

10-24-01 02:02 PM
Gazza Mmm.lets get this into some perspective here..

..Keith turns up to play a show,unbilled and at 24 hours notice - plays a 33 year old song that hes hardly had time to rehearse and has only EVER played a couple of times in concert since he wrote it (last time was 1989) - and because of a couple of bum notes,someone suggests he should be FIRED? On the evidence of one song? And by whom?? Since when has Mick or anyone else had the sole authority to fire anyone?

get it into perspective for fucks was a benefit show and a bit of fun. Its not the fucking Gettysburg Address (or even the Spanish Inquisition..)

Without Keith,it isnt the Stones. Its Mick jagger with a backing group. Anyone suggesting a Stones without Keith would be an improvement would be amongst the first people to admit theres something "missing" if they went to watch the band in a year from now with some other faceless clone riffing away onstage. Everyones entitled to an opinion...but I really think youre taking the piss to be honest and have got the reaction you were expecting!

Woody's pretty much coasted onstage for over a decade and anyone going to shows in that time can see how Keith's held the guitar sound of the band together in concert while Woody's played many a show mugging to the crowd whilst under the influence. Should Woody get the boot? No,absolutely not,although theres a lot of people who'd prefer to see that happen with Taylor the Quitter brought back (each to their own,thats another subject) - but hopefully he'll have his health and act together for the next tour. The Stones have persevered with him at atime when hes over indulged himself,and have actually helped him sort his problems out.

Mick Jagger spent many a show from the mid 70's up to the early 80's where his vocal chords were definitely lacking as he tended to spend 90 minutes a night running around a stage knackering himself posturing and working the crowd at the expense of actually singing the bloody songs. Thankfully,since "Steel Wheels" his vocals in concert have been more consistent. The idea of sacking HIM for falling below his standards is equally laughable.

The Stones never have been all about technical perfection anyway - they're raw at times,bum notes get hit once in a while,sometimes the singing can be what? If you want musical or vocal wizardry,go and listen to Santana or even Mariah Carey.

We love 'em,warts and all. Be thankful we still have them on a concert stage after 40 years and doing what they do best. Fans of other bands arent as lucky as we have been.

Its kinda ironic that a performance that lasted some 13 minutes or so should provoke such a lengthy diatribe and response!! Christ knows how much we'll be over analysing things a year from now when we're getting about 4 shows a week to moan about
10-24-01 04:06 PM
winter Amen -

My favorite performances and live recordings of the Stones are when they are at their "loosest." While I agree that Mick's vocal performance has been much more consistent and the band has been much tighter since Steel Wheels, I very much miss the spontaneity of Mick, Keith and the rest of the boys during 70's/81 shows. A good balance between technical precision and spontaneity for the next tour would be great.

And how about a little "torn and frayed", "loving cup" and "winter" next time around.

Lastly, it is the contrast between Mick and Keith that make the band so special (the ultimate professional showman with Mr. down and dirty rock-n-roll). One without the other is incomplete.
10-24-01 06:05 PM
Robert Schneeweiss Mikey, you can add Kim Simmonds to that list of British guitarists who have yet to lose their skills. But Gazza, your point is well taken. You may be right.
10-24-01 06:49 PM

He is right. RighteouslyRight~!
10-24-01 07:48 PM
10-24-01 08:28 PM
Robert Schneeweiss To accept the obscure tune/lack of rehearsal excuse is one thing, but to suggest that Keith played "great" at MSG is a joke. Mick on the other hand sang well, I said that from the beginning.
10-25-01 03:58 AM
Cardinal Fang Gazza said: Its not the fucking Gettysburg Address (or even the Spanish Inquisition..)

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our "three" weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our "four" "Amongst" our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

10-25-01 06:36 AM
Hank Wyman Why does our German friend tries to provocate the Stones-fans? The fact that Keith maybe played not that well is ofcourse no reason to fire him.
10-25-01 10:14 AM
Robert Schneeweiss I specifically said that Mick should consider firing Keith only if the MSG performance is a reflection of his skills these days. Maybe he had a bad night, maybe he was nervous, who knows? But like Gazza said, it's probably worth giving him the benefit of the doubt.
10-25-01 10:27 AM
Diamonds Disease Everybody who has any doubts about Keith's guitar playing lately, I advice all of you to listen to the live version of Gimme Shelter in Bremen '98. The way he changes from lead parts to rhythm parts so easily is realy incredible. I never heard him play like this before and it even made me forget about the Golden erea (with Taylor) so that means a lot. I also am a fan of Clapton, Page and Beck but listen to this and it will make you forget about them.
Keith you rule!!!
10-25-01 11:41 AM
honkytonkwom99 This is B.S. Without Keith there would no Stones!
10-25-01 06:57 PM
Robert Schneeweiss wrote:
For as much as I love the Stones and Keith's contributions to those classic albums, the guy was a joke on stage at the New York Benefit. I actually felt embarassed for him. Had it not been for Mick and the back-up singers picking up the slack, Salt of the Earth would have fallen flat. Keith's disgraceful acoustic display almost ruined the tune. Unless he turns things around completely, he doesn't deserve to tour with the group next year.

10-25-01 07:01 PM
swapwoodfortaylor Hmmm.......MBA? All wallet and no brain. Should spend his cash on a deed poll name change from that daft name. How about Roland Schneeweiss? Keeps respectable initials then.
10-25-01 09:11 PM

Fire KEITH?! are you outta yer ever-lovin' mind?! This is the man who dreamed&wrote every riff worth riffing, every lyric of Zimmy-cynicism-of-the-utmost-kindness (yeah, along with Michael Philip) and the rockingest swingingest white groooveSwing boy ever to make it out of the Blitz. Fleabit said it once, i think: the most blue-gummed white boy (and i righteously add: only this side of Blondie's South Africa. Now THERE's a real blue-gummed white boy for ya.

What more shall i say? That Tony Blair kicks arse? Yeah, i think that deserves to be said, really ; )

10-25-01 09:37 PM
Robert Schneeweiss All wallet and no brain you say? Granted, the Stones tour next year wouldn't likely be viable without Keith, but a wise bluesman once wrote "money can't save your soul."

Yes, I love the riffs Keith has created, but he'll still have to show me something on the next tour to prove he hasn't lost it.
10-25-01 09:53 PM
Nellcote People, just cool out. (Circa 1969)

Let's raise the flag ol' Rebel Yell is still crooning.
Take a look at the guy....

He should have been dead for at several years 1967-1977, yet still playing solid guitar 24 years later.

His bad days are other blokes best days.

He is 1/2 of the Greatest, yes Greatest songwriting team.

He is married to a great lookin' babe.

Sure, he has had his moments.
Anyone remember the effort at Live Aid?
I'm sure he did not want Mick to get the one up again on 10/20/01.

Who took the spotlight when Mick was introduced?
Mr. Elegantly Wasted.

I consider myself extremely lucky to have been placed on
this planet during his time.

Give the guy credit, he has fishing lures in his hair.

For those who think differently, make no mistake,
If he left the band, there would be no on with the show.

Long Live Keith!

10-25-01 10:09 PM
Robert Schneeweiss I can respect that Nellcote. Your post was a cool addition, and it should be the last message provided the rabble posting on this board will shut up.
10-25-01 11:39 PM
Cardinal Ximinez Wait a minute, why are all the people posting on this thread "rabble"? Just because they think you are a tit doesn't make them "rabble". You posted a very contreversial statement. Certainly, you must have known that people were gonna jump all over you. You slagged St. Keith, and even suggested he be fired! What did you expect?

I don't think Keith played that great during the show. SO WHAT! Mick and Keith were on stage together doing Stones songs together for the first time since last fuckin' century! You missed the point Bobby. The performance is really secondary. The point was that Mick and Keith got it together. And they had fun. This is a very good sign. Very good indeed.
10-26-01 02:15 AM
Hank Wyman Maybe Keith should not play Benefit concerts. Remember his disastrous performance with Dylan (Live Aid).
10-26-01 10:42 AM
Robert Schneeweiss Let's just leave it as a bad night and we'll see whether he can get it together next year.
10-26-01 03:54 PM
Miss U. Saint Keith???!!! Come on, people!

>>He is married to a great lookin' babe.<<<

What's this got to do w. his performance?

>>>Who took the spotlight when Mick was introduced?
Mr. Elegantly Wasted.<<<<

Mr. Elegantly Classy graciously gave the spotlight over! It was great to see the Stones on stage, they had fun, and I preferred Miss You to Salt of The Earth. Keith has his good moments, but off moments as well. That night was pretty much Mick with a backup band. But overall, I felt a really positive vibe for the future watching them.

10-26-01 04:35 PM
Ned Kelly If you fire Keith, I quit.
10-27-01 05:56 PM
Angiegirl Who's this Keith-figure you guys keep writing about? LOL
10-27-01 06:22 PM
Angiegirl Yesterday (all my troubles seemed...oh, sorry)the Dutch TV finally broadcasted the show, or at least a 2 hour selection of it. Luckily for me they left in both Mick/Keef songs, so I could at last see for myself what you have been talking about for the last week. So far I only heard them on the radio.

Here's my opinion: The Stones are my life (I'm 27 LOL), they will always be the greatest for me. But: I was a bit frightened/worried by Keefs appearance. His skin lacks more of a lively color than normal, the lines in his face are worse. Then I saw the look in his eyes and it reassured me. Still fire and strongminded. Mick looked absolutely great (except for the jeans, they were awful!).

Me too, I thought Keef played not as good and focussed as we're justed to. He seemed distracted, he seemed to miss a few notes here and there, I've heard him play the acoustic (or any) guitar better. When I think about it, I barely heard him. Don't know if that's true, must go see it again.

Then I thought by myself: it's not a Stones show. There are lots of possible explanations for the way he played the way he played:
- He kept low-profile, 'coz Mick was the main act, officially booked.
- already mentioned: not enough rehearsal time for SOTE
- not a crowd that comes to see Keef or the Stones, but to see a lot of different musicians. The evening wasn't even just about the music. Music and artists were means to an end, the attacks and losses.
- Not the musicians he's used to when playing these songs
- Maybe he was a bit sick
- Maybe he didn't want to play well
- Maybe he was forced to go onstage
- Maybe he wasn't Keef, but just an impersonator
- Maybe he secretely loathes Stones songs but always plays them to please everyone
- Maybe he did play great, I just hearded it wrong
- Maybe this is not interesting

I have confidence in next years tour. I have confidence in Keith's playing abillities. I have confidence in Mick's singing. I just don't have any confidence in reasonable ticket prices!
10-28-01 03:37 AM
Hank Wyman Well, I don't agree with Angie. Keith didn't play that bad. Actually he had a few strong intermezzo's. So I don't know where all the fuss is about. And I loved Micks jeans!
10-28-01 12:05 PM
Robert Schneeweiss Hank, what stood out were the missed notes on the relatively simple mini solo early on in SOTE. I think Keith realized he wasn't playing up to par and subsequently put the guitar away for the rest of the tune.
Page: 1 2

On June 16, 2001 the hit counter of the WET page was inserted here, it had 174,489 hits. Now the hit counter is for both the page and the board.
The hit counter of the ITW board had 1,127,645 hits when it was closed and the Coolboard didn't have hit counter but was on line only two months and a half.