ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board

© 1988 Timothy White
[THE WET PAGE] [IORR NEWS] [SETLISTS 1962-2003] [THE A/V ROOM] [THE ART GALLERY] [MICK JAGGER] [KEITHFUCIUS] [CHARLIE WATTS ] [RON WOOD] [BRIAN JONES] [MICK TAYLOR] [BILL WYMAN] [IAN STEWART ] [NICKY HOPKINS] [MERRY CLAYTON] [IAN 'MAC' McLAGAN] [BERNARD FOWLER] [LISA FISCHER] [DARRYL JONES] [BOBBY KEYS] [JAMES PHELGE] [CHUCK LEAVELL] [LINKS] [PHOTOS] [MAGAZINE COVERS] [MUSIC COVERS ] [JIMI HENDRIX] [BOOTLEGS] [TEMPLE] [GUESTBOOK] [ADMIN]

[CHAT ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [RESTROOMS]

NEW: SEARCH ZONE:
Search for goods, you'll find the impossible collector's item!!!
Enter artist an start searching using "Power Search" (RECOMMENDED) inside.
Search for information in the wet page, the archives and this board:

PicoSearch
ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
Register | Update Profile | F.A.Q. | Admin Control Panel

Topic: 3 Big Music Retailers Remove Stones Records from Shelves (link inside) Return to archive
10-28-03 05:26 PM
Boomy http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031028.wstone1028/BNStory/Entertainment/
10-28-03 05:29 PM
glencar I hope all the Canucks here buy extra Stones products at Best Buy next month. You must show these stores how idiotic they are.
10-28-03 05:30 PM
glencar BTW "Canucks" isn't offensive, is it? I'm using it like "Yanks" is used by others.
10-28-03 05:32 PM
Fiji Joe I tried something very similar when my wife had an exclusivity deal with another man...I boycotted her...it worked out great
10-28-03 10:23 PM
Steel Wheels I hate Stones boycotts almost as much as I hate Bianca and Rod Stewarts's bitching.
10-28-03 10:50 PM
Lazy Bones Fuck em! It was in nobody's interest to pay $30 for a Stones album at HMV anyway. Sunrise are thieves, too. The popular of the recently re-issued Dylan SACD albums were $29. Just in time for Christmas, too, hopefully the small record shops will finally get the recognition and support they've always earned.

HMV no longer accepts the "CD Club" card. Essentially, you would get a "stamp" for every cd purchased; once you purchased 10, your next disc would be free. Roughly $2 off each of the 10 discs you put on the card. I liked that because they would even stamp a transaction with a gift certificate.

In a time when the music industry is struggling for ideas to bring customers in (thanks to on-line file sharing), reducing their inventory is not the way to go. Quite simply, they don't want to offer a competitive price while taking a hit on mark-up.

I recently purchased the White Stripes Elephant and Jane's Addiction's Strays - both had small thank-you cards in them expressing thanks for supporting the industry. So which is it, thank or handcuff the consumer?

Fools!
10-29-03 08:29 AM
SHINE A LIGHT oh well, there's nothing like bad publicity to help sales......as if the Stones need help. all these stores are doing is shooting themselves in the foot/feet.
10-29-03 09:11 AM
Monkey Woman My, my, my! These music stores are reacting like a 5-year old deprived of candy! What they are doing, basically, is saying "the Stones think we're not good enough for them, so we turn our back to their fans". If I was living in Canada, I'd say "fuck them, FutureShop is the place for me!"
10-29-03 09:11 AM
caro Yes, on short term, they're shooting themselves in the feet. Still, I don't think this boycott is such a bad idea : all those exclusivity deals are made to give people less and less freedom in buying stuff - including the freedom to buy the same album/DVD for cheaper elsewhere. Why shouldn't these stores protest? Soon you'll have to get a 50$/year rs.com membership to have the right to buy a Stones album.
10-29-03 09:49 AM
Monkey Woman Oh, I agree that from their POV, it makes some sense. And they have grounds to be pissed off. But I find it ironic, to say the least, that those who complain the most are the big stores, the kind of which slowly pushed little shops out of business in the last decade or so. Their financial weight enabled them to offer bargain prices on some titles to bring in the customers, just like BestBuy is doing now. Now they are given a dose of the same medicine... They mourn their monopoly, really! They didn't see the online retailers coming (must have been incipient blindness...) and now try frantically to regain some kind of edge. This boycott thing smells to me of an attempt to steer publicity their way! The Stones and BestBuy use the exclusivity deal as a gimmick to whip up publicity, and now HMV, Sunrise and others have found a way to use it also!

But I agree that the music & entertainment industry behaviour has been very depressing of late. Look at the brouhaha over the downloading... Trying to ban it was plainly stupid, given human nature and the fast evolving technology. And it took the industry long enough to come to a solution that could satisfy both customers and artists, by enabling people to buy and download legally, song by song, as Apple did first with iTunes! I'm glad the Stones agreed to do so eventually, with the song catalog they control. I think though we're still waiting for Abkco to release their material online...
10-29-03 10:14 AM
Lazy Bones I say it again, Fools!...


Wednesday, October 29, 2003


Exiled on Yonge St.
Rolling Stones product yanked in DVD dispute
By JIM SLOTEK -- Toronto Sun
TORONTO -- It's true, you can't always get what you want. This week, for example, you won't find the Rolling Stones in many major record stores.

Canadian retailers HMV Canada, Pindoff Record Sales/Music World and Sunrise Records have pulled all Rolling Stones CDs, DVDs, videos and accessories from their stores.

The move is in response to the announcement that the Stones' four-disc DVD set Four Flicks, will be available exclusively through "big box" retailers Best Buy and Future Shop on its Nov. 11 release.

"We pulled them on Friday," Sunrise buyer Tim Baker told The Sun. "We're doing it for our customers and not ourselves. Our customers don't want to shop in a place with washing machines and fridges.

"We've been selling the Stones for decades and we've put a lot of money into their pockets, so you can understand our position. Frankly, I don't think the Rolling Stones are about the music anymore."

Four Flicks will only be available in Canada at Minneapolis-based Best Buy's 14 stores and the 105 outlets of its Future Shop subsidiary.

Roger Whiteman of the Retail Music Association of Canada said his group -- which ironically includes Best Buy and Future Shop among its membership -- would be meeting next Wednesday at the Westin-Prince York Mills. "That issue will definitely be on the agenda," he said. "There is a great deal of concern by retailers who have supported the Rolling Stones' catalogue for years.

"Our entire association of members could agree not to stock the Rolling Stones catalogue. Whether they make that decision remains to be seen."

Toronto-based Rolling Stones tour promoter Michael Cohl, who represented the Stones in the deal, was unavailable for comment.

"I frankly don't expect Michael Cohl to respond to us," Baker said. "This is really to serve notice to anyone else who wants to pull something like this."

10-29-03 10:29 AM
caro MW, it is ironic, sure. However, the (remaining) little music stores will be suffering from that exclusivity deal as much as the big ones. And I'd say people who dig the Stones are more likely to shop in independant record stores than, let's say, people who dig "Supa-volume-trans-hipno-tech-summer-sweat #15".
But you're right, the stores mentioned in the article would probably have signed the same deal, if they had been given the opportunity to do so.

oh, on a side note.. has anyone here ever stumbled across a Stones-related press article that didn't start either by "You can't always get what you want..." or by "the Stones get some satisfaction" ?
[Edited by caro]
10-29-03 12:15 PM
Monkey Woman
quote:
oh, on a side note.. has anyone here ever stumbled across a Stones-related press article that didn't start either by "You can't always get what you want..." or by "the Stones get some satisfaction" ?

Good one!
10-29-03 12:32 PM
Monkey Woman And one more recycled title
...Plus a view into the other side of the deal.

You can't always get what you want

Band's DVD set expected to be hot seller

By MARINA STRAUSS
RETAILING REPORTER
Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - Page B1

Major Canadian music stores have pulled all Rolling Stones products from their shelves, outraged over the band's exclusive deal to sell a DVD set only at Best Buy Co. Inc. and its Future Shop Ltd. stores through the key holiday season.

HMV Canada Music Stores Ltd., which removed the merchandise yesterday, is also looking into whether there are grounds to lodge a complaint with the federal Competition Bureau, on the basis that the exclusivity pact with one retail chain puts rivals at a disadvantage

"Yes, we are offended," Humphrey Kadaner, president of HMV Canada said. "We are the leading music and DVD retailer in Canada. We have supported the Rolling Stones over the years."

Added Tim Baker, buyer for Toronto's Sunrise Records, which is also boycotting the Stones: "We've made them an awful lot of money over the decades. Now they're just acting greedy."

The veteran rock group's four-disc DVD set, called Four Flicks and due Nov. 11 from TGA Entertainment, is expected to be one of the holiday season's top sellers.

HMV alone estimates Four Flicks would have generated as much as $500,000 in sales between now and Christmas -- while sales of other Rolling Stones merchandise may have rung in up to $1-million over that period, Mr. Kadaner said.

The exclusive deal runs until early in the new year, Best Buy Canada spokeswoman Lori DeCou said. It is the first time the company has taken advantage of a deal struck by its Minneapolis parent for music product exclusivity, she said.

Michael Cohl, chief executive officer of TGA Entertainment, said Best Buy offered to sell the set for the lowest price -- $39.99 -- in Canada.

He said a number of other "distributors" would have sold the set for at least $20 to $30 more, "something which was unacceptable to the Stones and TGA," said Mr. Cohl, a Toronto music promoter who helped spearhead the giant Rolling Stones SARS benefit concert in that city last summer.

The deal allows TGA and the Stones "to offer a fantastic product at an amazing price for the holidays for their fans," he said.

Industry insiders suggested that Best Buy paid the Stones a hefty premium for the exclusivity rights; Ms. DeCou did not provide details about the deal.

Mr. Kadaner acknowledged that a complaint to the Competition Bureau may not fly because the agreement was made with the artists rather than with their record company, EMI.

"We think it's very unfair to consumers," he said. "We don't think exclusives of this type are in the best interest of the industry."

The music industry has been hit hard over the past few years, squeezed by on-line downloading and mounting competition from non-specialty retailers, such as Best Buy, Future Shop and Wal-Mart, which often sell music cheaply to get shoppers in the door.

Dan Kuczkowski, vice-president and general manager at Music World, said the 100 stores across Canada pulled about $100,000 worth of Stones inventory.

My concern is: What's next?," Mr. Kuczkowski said. "Am I going to be told that the next major artist will only be available at Wal-Mart?"

A&B Sound, which has 22 stores in Western Canada, will continue to carry Stones products, said Lane Orr, A&B's vice-president of merchandising.

"Obviously, I'm not happy with it," Mr. Orr said. "But if you're a music retailer and not carrying the Rolling Stones, there's a bit of a disconnect there."

Some very interesting points here:
quote:
Michael Cohl, chief executive officer of TGA Entertainment, said Best Buy offered to sell the set for the lowest price -- $39.99 -- in Canada.

He said a number of other "distributors" would have sold the set for at least $20 to $30 more, "something which was unacceptable to the Stones and TGA"


I admire A&B Sound's common sense and business acumen, though. Now that other retailers have yanked RS records from their stores, they have an edge!
quote:
A&B Sound, which has 22 stores in Western Canada, will continue to carry Stones products, said Lane Orr, A&B's vice-president of merchandising.

"Obviously, I'm not happy with it," Mr. Orr said. "But if you're a music retailer and not carrying the Rolling Stones, there's a bit of a disconnect there."


And the price for double-talk goes to Mr. Kadaner, of HMV Canada:
quote:
"We think it's very unfair to consumers," he said. "We don't think exclusives of this type are in the best interest of the industry."


Chose one stance...
[Edited by Monkey Woman]
10-29-03 12:42 PM
Monkey Woman And another one!

Best Buy gets satisfaction

How the Minnesota retailer won sales rights worth multimillions to a new Rolling Stones DVD
BY SCOTT CARLSON

Pioneer Press

When the Rolling Stones hold a premiere party in New York City tonight to launch their DVD box set "Four Flicks,'' the quintessential rock 'n' roll band will share the spotlight with a Minnesota retailer: Best Buy Co.

In a major coup, Best Buy will be the sole U.S. and Canadian retailer of the Stones' new mega release — for the next four months. The rockers and their record producer TGA Entertainment have granted the Richfield-based consumer electronics giant exclusive selling rights from Nov. 11 on into February.

The unprecedented deal, initiated by the Stones' record company, was months in the making and hammered out during many meetings this past summer and fall. It will mean millions in revenues and untold store and Web traffic for Best Buy during the crucial holiday sales season. But it has also angered others in the music retailing business who are shut out from selling what is sure to be a hot item.

For Best Buy, it was a roll of the tumbling dice the company couldn't pass up.

"We think the Rolling Stones are an incredible band,'' said Mike Linton, Best Buy executive vice president of consumer and brand marketing. "They have a giant appeal. When we enter into these partnerships, we want to partner with other brands that matter and come together to do things that could not be done separately.''

Clark Benson, head of the Almighty Institute of Music Retail, a California-based music marketing firm, predicted that most of the Stones' sales from the new DVD set will occur within four months of its release. Given the Stones' history with previous albums, the "Four Flicks'' DVD set, priced at $29.99, seems likely to sell at least 1 million copies in North America.

The Stones' "Forty Licks'' album went multiplatinum in 2002, selling about 4 million copies in the United States, according to figures from the Recording Industry Association of America. The expectation is that Best Buy could reap revenues of at least $30 million and possibly upward of $300 million related to sales of "Four Flicks.''

IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL (BUT … )

Exclusive alliances between big recording artists and retailers are nothing new. For example, Target had one this summer with Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguilera on a joint CD. And since 2000, Best Buy's exclusive promotions have included deals with Sting, U2 and *NSYNC.

But music followers say Best Buy's four-month exclusivity pact with the Stones is unique.

"It is taking this (exclusive rights) to a whole new level,'' said Benson.

George Whalin, a California retail consultant, said Best Buy's deal with the Rolling Stones gives the nation's largest retailer of consumer electronics "an edge over everyone else who sells music.'' Best Buy operates nearly 700 stores in the United States and Canada.

The DVD package should not only appeal to a wide age range of shoppers but also should spur an influx of older consumers who grew up with the band and have money to buy other music, consumer electronics and appliances, Whalin said.

"It is a great coup for Best Buy,'' Whalin said.

Retail consultants don't know how much Best Buy has paid for exclusive selling rights, and the company won't divulge the figure. But industry sources estimated Best Buy's deal easily runs into the millions of dollars given the retailer's plans to conduct a multichannel marketing campaign that will include in-store signage, national TV advertising, newspaper circulars, direct mail and the company's Web site.

CAN'T GET WHAT THEY WANT

The Stones' deal with Best Buy, however, has angered many independent music retailers. Critics complain that the deal comes at a time when the slumping music industry would dearly benefit from a "buzzworthy'' release during the holiday season, the key retail period of the year.

"All you have done is hurt every other music retailer,'' Benson said.

The deal is an insult to many independent music retailers who have carried an extensive catalog of the band's material for years, Benson contended.

Bob Fuchs, manager of the Electric Fetus record store in Minneapolis, agreed that in an ideal world, music retailers would be free to sell anyone's music. "Best Buy is working the angles because of their size and power,'' he said. "The Stones are a big brand and Best Buy deals in big brands.''

Fuchs said he won't "lose any sleep'' over the Best Buy deal. He noted that Electric Fetus has 13,000 music titles, many of them exclusive only to his shop and scores that are not available to big retailers like Best Buy.

Whatever the criticism, Best Buy executives believe the partnership with the Rolling Stones will be a winning combo for the band, its fans and their company.

"The decision (on marketing) was that of the Rolling Stones,'' said Gary Arnold, Best Buy senior vice president entertainment. "We can market the product more effectively to the consumer than anyone else. If other retailers wanted to step forward with a better offer, then the Rolling Stones would have made the decision to go with them.''

Said Linton, the Best Buy executive vice president: "In the end, the arbiter of fairness will be the marketplace."

NO MIXED EMOTIONS

For Best Buy, the marketing partnership has been in the works for several months. Early this year, Best Buy heard rumors the Stones were considering the company for a partnership on their DVD project.

Then in March, Arnold got a telephone call that would have thrilled any Rolling Stones fan. TGA, the Stones' record company, said, "We want talk to you about something exciting,'' Arnold recalled.

For the Stones' management, the call to Best Buy was not a shot in the dark. "We have worked with TGA before," Arnold said, noting that the band teamed with Best Buy during its "Bridges to Babylon" tour to film a TV ad for the retailer.

TGA and the Stones' managers followed up the initial phone call in March, when their key principals flew to the Twin Cities that same month to meet Arnold and other Best Buy executives at their company's headquarters.

At a meeting that began midmorning and lasted through the afternoon, TGA representatives Steve Howard and Mark Norman shared their vision about the four-set DVD project, Arnold said.

Then the Best Buy executives outlined their marketing plan for the project. "We said we are passionate about music and making the release of music an event. The irreplaceable elements are the artists and the fans. Our job is connecting them,'' Arnold said. "It was a starting point.''

By the end of the day, the two sides were excited about working together, but the final say on what would happen had to go back to the band for its review, Arnold said.

The two parties continued discussions through early summer. In the end, Arnold doesn't recall any defining moment that finalized the partnership. It was a case of both sides quietly moving down the road to where there would be no turning back, he said.

"Both parties agreed we would work together and we worked feverishly on all the details over the summer and into the fall,'' Arnold said.

GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT

From Linton's perspective, Best Buy's ability to land such a deal is the result of negotiating several exclusives over the past four years. In 2000, Best Buy hosted a free Sting concert in New York City's Central Park, a promotion the retailer used to tout its entry in that retail market. A year later, Best Buy had a two-week exclusive window in the United States selling U2's "Elevation Tour'' DVD.

Linton said each marketing partnership is different. He and Arnold said what separates the Rolling Stones' deal from others is its sheer size. TGA is responsible for creating, filming and recording for "Four Flicks'' while Best Buy is taking on the distribution and sale of the DVD package, Arnold said.

The "Four Flicks'' DVD set documents three of the band's concerts from its 2002-2003 "Live Licks" tour and features more than five hours of music, including some material never recorded before. Concerts showcased are from Olympia Theatre in Paris, Madison Square Garden in New York and Twickenham Stadium in London. The DVD package also includes two documentaries on the band.

Best Buy executives think the DVD set will be a hit not only for its music but also for its cutting-edge technology. Special features include "Bonus Pass,'' which allows the viewer to cut back and forth from the performance onstage to what is going on at the same time backstage, Arnold said.

For Arnold, a Rolling Stones fan dating back to the late 1960s, his company's partnership with the band's ranks as a highlight in his more than 30 years in the entertainment industry.

"I have worked with a lot of great names in music and entertainment, and yet when you get a chance to work with someone like the Rolling Stones and their management to do something significant, it is really exciting,'' he said.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/7126877.htm

This is from a Minnesota based newspaper, so they tend to have more sympathy for BestBuy.

But I think that Bob Fuchs makes a very important point, here. The deal is hurting other big stores a lot more than little independant shops, which cater to a different fringe of the buyers than HMV, Tower et al.

This whole thing makes me think of the bitching among promoters when Michael Cohl closed his famous deal with the Stones in 1989... Their loss, his gain. But the fans couldn't complain. Except about prices, which would have rocketed whoever was in charge... The market can be a bitch!
10-29-03 01:46 PM
Mr T great idea, because we all know that customer loyalty won't allow them to drive to the next store to pick up the product they want

10-29-03 03:21 PM
L&A Exclusivity like that one between RS and Best Buy is killing the retailers. I understand them perfectly. They don't have any other weapons.

I always enjoy to go to the store next to my home.
10-29-03 03:36 PM
Mr T yeah - but the store's limiting their own seletion is gonna hurt them a lot more than the Stones. The most they can hope for by boycotting the band is pissing off some of their fans.

wow, great idea, too bad Best Buy didn't think of THAT marketing strategy
10-29-03 10:28 PM
Steel Wheels The smaller shops that I know of charge more, usually 3-5 bucks more than Best Buys sells them for. And hell, BB offers a nice pre-order.

My money, my Stones, my DVD set coming soon...
10-30-03 02:57 PM
Jumping Jack $60 DVDs for $29. Let's all bitch. Makes up for Ticket Master and the Fan Club as far as I am concerned.
10-30-03 06:17 PM
Lazy Bones Thursday, October 30, 2003

Rolling Stones defend DVD sales

NEW YORK (AP) -- Mick Jagger is defending the Rolling Stones' decision to sell their new DVD box set "Four Flicks" through Best Buy and no other music retailers.

"This is not like not allowing them to sell some Blockbuster movie, which is going to sell 2 million DVDs in first week, you know, a 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' or something like that," Jagger told The Associated Press on Thursday.

"I think that this is like really small potatoes compared to that," he said.

Best Buy, which operates nearly 700 stores in the United States and Canada, won't say how much it paid for exclusive selling rights. Industry sources estimated Best Buy's deal easily runs into the millions of dollars given the retailer's plans to conduct a multichannel marketing campaign that will include in-store signage, national TV advertising, newspaper circulars, direct mail and the company's Web site.

George Whalin, a California retail consultant, has said Best Buy's deal with the Rolling Stones gives the nation's largest retailer of consumer electronics "an edge over everyone else who sells music" because of the Stones' popularity.

Three big music chains in Canada announced they were pulling some of the band's merchandise and music off shelves in protest after learning of the deal.

"I feel bad for the stores that aren't going to have the product, but they have lots of other products, to be honest, and music videos don't sell anything like movie DVDs," Jagger said.

But the band had the fans in mind all along when it made the decision, he said.

The Best Buy partnership will allow them to buy the DVD set for about $30 instead of $60, he said.

The set documents three of the band's concerts from its 2002-03 "Live Licks" tour and features more than five hours of music, including some material never recorded before. Concerts featured are from Olympia Theatre in Paris, Madison Square Garden in New York and Twickenham Stadium in London. The DVD package also includes two documentaries on the band.

Given the Stones' history with previous albums, the "Four Flicks" DVD set seems likely to sell at least 1 million copies in North America.

The Stones' "Forty Licks" two-CD set sold about 4 million copies in the United States, according to figures from the Recording Industry Association of America (news - web sites).

"Four Flicks" will be released Nov. 11.