| October 20th, 2005 06:04 PM |
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| Back Street Girl |
http://www.stonedthemovie.com/videos/stream.mov |
| October 20th, 2005 06:07 PM |
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| pdog |
Neato! Coolio !!!
Looks like it should be entertaining and very sad for us hardcore fans! |
| October 20th, 2005 07:25 PM |
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| stewed & Keefed |
Looks quite good,I hope the story line is as good. |
| October 20th, 2005 08:11 PM |
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| GhostofBrianJones |
Whoops! I did NOT see this before I posted mine. Sorry. |
| October 21st, 2005 12:26 AM |
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| The Porkchop Express |
sorry to rain on your parade,
but there are many problems with 'Stoned'
Wooley apparantly spent 10 years researching before filming, yet, he barely scratched the surface and had Tom Keylock as an 'adviser' on the sets....Keylock?!
but I hear it is well made and has some solid acting...particulary Keylock and Thorogood.
Keylock and Keith are portrayed very positively. it was probably due to the Stones lawyers, lawsuits et al
Brian's kindness is hinted at, but his nasty side is simply over done. (but Brian's passion for music and talents are shown in a part where he jams with Thorogood in the empty pool).
There are brutal inaccuracies: during the trip to Morocco in March '67, Brian encourages Keith and Anita to screw around....yeah sure
Keith and Anita are portrayed as completely innocent
Mick: a businessman....but, Mick and Keith never pick on Brian, they're always nice to him
Bill and Charlie: irrelevant (figures)
Oldham's personality is dead on (slime bucket), but Woolley's imagination takes over: when the Stones hire Oldham, he tells them that they'll be the anti-Beatles and tells them to stop wearing suits. in reality, Oldham had them (for a time) in suits and wanted them to be the new Beatles....but Brian and Mick had their way: no suits
the murder scene kind of hints at reality, but.....Thorogood drowns Brian in the pool. yet after Brian's dead, Frank shouts out for Keylock. hmmmmm, makes me think that Wooley could only do so much and wants us to connect the dots. anyways, Keylock and the builders are hiding in the bushes, even though they haven't been at the house with the others: Janet, Anna and Frank.
The last scene takes place years later.....Keylock is at the pool and Brian appears. he says something like: 'thanks Tom. thank you for making a matyr out of me...if it wasn't for you, I'd still be alive and no one would care what I did.' it's as if Wooley is kissing Keylock's ass
and I have a problem with that line....when Brian quit the Stones, he had also quit drugs, was getting his act together and was starting to put together a new band. His good friend Steve Marriot wanted him in Humble Pie. Alexis Korner was constantly talking to Brian about a back-to-basics blues band. John Lennon was a frequent guest at his home (Cotchford Farm), and they recorded a lot of songs together. Jimi Hendrix also visited Brian frequently at Cotchford and they jammed as well. The word at the time was that Brian was either going to on on tour with Hendrix, or start a new 'supergroup' with Lennon and Hendrix. My money is on him starting a band with Lennon and possibly doing some touring with Jimi.
Leo Gregory did a good job with Jones: the mannerisms and voice are good. he also likes Brian and now listens to rock.
but what's cool is that Gregory doesn't like Keylock....I've read that he found him 'creepy' and did not like that Keylock had put a pic of Gregory on a wall in his home. Keylock was also very controlling and always wanted to know what was happening. He also said he tipped off and was connected to Sgt. Pilcher (one of the cops who busted Brian)
the truth has been twisted and subjected to Wooley's imagination, but it has been indicated when read between the lines (Keylock)
all signs point to Keylock.....hopefully people will become more aware and informed, and maybe the beans will be spilt. I think this is what all Wooley could do....but he could have portrayed Brian in a much better light.
there were other people at Cotchford that night (at least that was in the film).....it's obvious who was involved, but.....why?
personally, I think Allen Klein put a hit on Brian and Keylock organized it.
[Edited by The Porkchop Express] |
| October 21st, 2005 09:30 AM |
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| GhostofBrianJones |
Thank you so much for saying what I have been hoping someone
else would say for a long, long time. You are absolutely right in
everything you said. Keylock is a monster. He wanted to be in
with Mick and Keith instead of Brian. They were the ones in the
limelight and Brian was just a pain in the arse to him. Keylock
thinks everybody is stupid but him. It has been said Brian could
not get a visa to the US and his health at that time was in question
so he had to leave the group. Mick tried to get him a visa but I
guess it was not going to be done at all or done in time. Brian
supposedly said he could not take another tour~I guess at the
time when they were going again.
Stephen Woolley probably did have to be careful in what he put
in the movie as you stated. Since Brian's parents and sister are
still living and he has children he could not risk it. I wonder what
Ms Pallenberg thought of the movie if she has seen it. And Anna
Wohlin's thoughts would be interesting. So Mr. Woolley had to
use his perception of what HE thinks happened. I definitely believe
Brian was murdered and Keylock had a hand in it. Keylock and
Thorogood were old school chums. Maybe they devised the scheme to exploit the vulnerable BJ and went to far as to
have Janet Lawson who was a nurse inject something in Brian in
the house and then carry his body to the pool. He did have a
puncture wound on his body noticed during the examination and
according to the LivingTV from the UK the psychic stated that
Brian "told him" about the puncture wound during the show.
The best article I have is from the UK's Sunday Times Magazine
from August 21, 2005. This article contains information I had never seen before. A real eye-opener.
Thanks again for your message. |
| October 21st, 2005 01:22 PM |
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| BrianJonesForever |
I won't be seeing the movie. I agree with the posts above, it shows off his negetive sides, simply to make a good film to watch. The sex, drugs, thats what people want to see, and thats what they made the movie out of. |
| October 21st, 2005 05:50 PM |
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| The Porkchop Express |
no, you should see it....I'm gonna
I think that any publicity for Brian is good....it'll get people interested, they'll start buying the books and they'll start learning about the man behind the Stones, the true genious who started this great band but then had it stolen from him - along with his music and his girl.
here's a great review:
http://www.angelfire.com/rock2/hotstuff/STONEDreview.html |
| October 22nd, 2005 10:07 AM |
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| corgi37 |
I really severely doubt Lennon & Hendrix were going to start a super group with Brian.
Hendrix was pretty much drug fucked himself (he was dead a year later!) and Lennon was still in the Beatles.
If Brian did lots of recordings with these 2, where are they? Unless there's something i dont know. |
| October 22nd, 2005 11:05 AM |
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| gorda |
quote:
The Porkchop Express wrote:
no, you should see it....I'm gonna
I think that any publicity for Brian is good....it'll get people interested, they'll start buying the books and they'll start learning about the man behind the Stones, the true genious who started this great band but then had it stolen from him - along with his music and his girl.
I was born after Brian Jones died, and I was too young to remember Mick Taylor. My version of the Rolling Stones is Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Charlie Watts, Ronnie Wood and Bill Wyman. Even though, we didn't have MTV at home, the few times, that I got a glimpse of the band, it was those 5.
P.S. Although, Brian Jones "started" the band, Keith Richards and Mick Jagger wrote all their hit singles!
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| October 22nd, 2005 01:19 PM |
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| The Porkchop Express |
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
I really severely doubt Lennon & Hendrix were going to start a super group with Brian.
Hendrix was pretty much drug fucked himself (he was dead a year later!) and Lennon was still in the Beatles.
If Brian did lots of recordings with these 2, where are they? Unless there's something i dont know.
Hendrix and Lennon visited Brian frequently at Cotchford Farm and jammed with him....he recorded a lot of the stuff they did together. After Brian was murdered, Tom Keylock burnt all of his recordings, clothes etc. He admited this.
quote:
gorda wrote:
P.S. Although, Brian Jones "started" the band, Keith Richards and Mick Jagger wrote all their hit singles!
no they didn't
Marianne Faithful:
(from "Brian Jones" by Adam Clayson)
"...it was really Brian and Keith's song. It began, as I recall, from a bluesy Elizabethan fragment Brian was fiddling with in the studio. Brian in his sheepish way very softly played a folkish, nursery rhyme melody on the recorder. It was nothing more than a wispy tune, but it caught Keith's attention. Brian said it was a hybrid of Thomas Dowland's 'Air On The Late Lord Essex' [sic] and a Skip James blues."
from the Stones Mojo Special Edition:
"In one of the most telling episodes in Faithfull, her autobiographical collaboration with David Dalton, Marianne describes the moment in the studio when Jones first plays on recorder the beautiful lilting pastoral melody that would eventually become Ruby Tuesday. Richards picks up on it and starts shaping it on the piano. Jones tells him that it's a cross between John Dowland's Air On The Late Lord Essex and a Skip James blues. 'Brian wanted everyone to say, 'That's great Brian, wonderful! Good work!'' says Faitful. 'But of course nobody did.' When it was released, as the flip side to Let's Spend The Night Together, Ruby Tuesday carried the standard Jagger-Richards songwriting credit. When they performed it on TV, Jones and Richards were sat together at the same piano stool, accentuating their physical and musical closeness. They would never be that close again."
Jagger: "Lovely song, great melody, great lyrics -- never wrote a thing on it, always enjoy singing it, though"
The quote is from 1995, and although it may not be verbatim, it's pretty close.
they've never come up with anything even remotely resembling this classic tune in almost 40 years since RT was released. it's all Brian: just listen to the arrangement
Mick has flat out stated he had nothing to do with writing it, while Keith, to the best of my knowledge, has never said a word about it....the song was Brian's idea: he started to write it about a groupie friend. but, he got stuck on the lyrics and went over to Keith's house where they rewrote the lyrics together. In the studio, the music for RT was all Brian's: he played the recorder, cello and piano for the song, then, so Bill would have something to play on it, the cello was done again by Bill (with some help from Keith). apparantly Brian and Keith had a deal where RT would be credited to Jones/Richards, or at least Jagger/Richards/Jones....but it wasn't until the song came out, that Brian found out that this would not be the case.
but as far as the music only goes, Brian wrote a lot of the music, and like Bill, Charlie and Stu, he wasn't credited at all after early '65 when the Nanker/Phelge credit was dropped. (and Mick Taylor would never receive the credit for writing a lot of Sticky Fingers and other songs from Goats Head Soap and It's Only Rock n' Roll...ditto for Ronnie) but anyways, take Paint It Black....Keith apparantly wrote the lyrics, and had music for it which he didn't like. He used the music that Brian came up with when he and Mick were not even in the studio, yet guess who was credited and who wasn't?
and then there's Honky Tonk Woman....in late '69, an interview was conducted with Brian's father. He said that Brian played the guitar riff to HTW for him and Brian's mother at Cotchford Farm, in early '69....around the time the song was about to be recorded. Brian told him the song's riff was his. but the thing that always gets to me about this song is that it was the very last one Brian played on (in early Feb, '69) with the Stones. After that, he refused to come back to the studio....even though the Stones would send a car to his house everyday to get him. He was pissed and would not show up....and never did again.
in the end I like Mick and Keith, I just wish they could've shared power
another rant done |
| October 22nd, 2005 01:58 PM |
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| gorda |
Don't believe everything you read.
And, whatever happened, happened at that is all in the past. No one can go back and change it. |
| October 23rd, 2005 12:22 AM |
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| BrianJonesForever |
quote:
gorda wrote:
Don't believe everything you read.
And, whatever happened, happened at that is all in the past. No one can go back and change it.
Yep, exactly why we shouldn't believe what you posted |
| October 23rd, 2005 01:05 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Everyone here can appreciate what Brian did for the band,but the FACT is that he did not have the constitution or will of character to fit the bill of being a major star. He was an insecure little man who did alienate many of those around him. Looking at it from any other perspective is simply revisionist history.
Pete Townshend has said it many times. He said that Brian could be the sweetest man in the room one minute,and then become an absolute asshole the next. You may want to elevate him to some saintly status,but that shit don't play. I have been a fan of the Stones for decades now,and have read everything worth reading on this suject. Without exception the verdict is the same with regards to Brian.
He was an enormously talented man who had no emotional backbone. He tried to cheat the other members of the band out of money in the early days. They never forgot that,or forgave him for it. They exacted some very hard revenge on Brain no doubt,but the guy held his position of "founder" over all their heads for a long time. Even Charlie has said that his behaviour would become "downright boorish" many times.
He also was a shit father and an abusive lover. All of this has been well documented. The fact that some here would try and deny or distort the KNOWN facts about Brian is ridiculous.
I personaly love his contributions to the early days of the band. His multi-instramental abbilities may very well be second to none in the history of rock and roll. Though Steve Winwood was also great in that respect.
Brian,however,never had the ego for the bussiness. This is just a fact so deal with it. To try and blame Mick and Keith for Brian's downfall is utter bullshit. These guys were all in their early twenties at the time and were part of the second largest band in the world. If you could not handle the pressure you quickly became relegated to the back bench. That is exactly what happened to Brian. His physical health and his emotional neediness killed his ability to cope with massive pressure that went with the gig.
"They stole his band,his girl,his sole reason for living,.....blah,blah,blah,..." Get over it! Brian brought almost all of that shit on himself,and you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would dispute that fact. Yeah he was treated harshly,but he treated many people like shit for years prior to that. Ask Linda or any number of women he impregnated and then walked away from. The guy's overall personality trait was that of an insecure man who got all the success that he could ever dream of and then could not handle the fame and pressures that came with it. Say what you want about Mick and Keith,but at least they knew enough to toughen up and actully write great songs that brought the band the status of major stardom. Brian,by all accounts,was so insecure that he rarely,if ever,would even show the other members of the band his songs. In short he had "short man's" dissease. He acted way tougher than he really was,and he got called out on it.
Spin it all you want,but the facts are fairly obvious to those who were there at the time. That includes both members of the Stones,and outsiders looking in. It was a rough harsh time and Brian lacked the ego and emotional strength to cope with fame. Hence his abusive behaviour,drug abuse,insecurities,physical health issuses(asthma,etc.) He simply was not strong enough to deal with what he helped create.
Riffhard |
| October 23rd, 2005 01:43 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Was Brian murdered or was it a tragic accident? Was there a conspiracy? A hit? When, oh when, will justice be served?
The question I want answered is....who gives a fuck?
Holy hell people...it's going on 40 years past! Almost all of the principals in the issue are dead, or soon will be dead.
Do we not have better things to obsess over? |
| October 23rd, 2005 09:21 PM |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
It's like a "Cold Case" but in this case the killer is dead too
Anyway Sikr I would love to see the movie first after all is a movie about Brian |
| October 23rd, 2005 09:29 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Oh yeah, G-man...I gotta see this movie too.
It looks really bad...and I love really bad movies. I'll probably get shushed at the theatre. I always laugh at inappropriate times at bad movies. Like during the ridiculous Stonewall Jackson bedroom scene in Gods & Generals...or during the retarded win-one-for-the-gipper Presidential pep talk before the climatic battle in Independence Day.
Well Stoned looks like it'll be full of those types of dumb scenes...so I'm sure I'll love it. |
| October 23rd, 2005 09:35 PM |
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| VoodooChileInWOnderl |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
It looks really bad...and I love really bad movies.
LOL |
| October 24th, 2005 02:31 AM |
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| gypsy |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Oh yeah, G-man...I gotta see this movie too.
It looks really bad...and I love really bad movies. I'll probably get shushed at the theatre. I always laugh at inappropriate times at bad movies. Like during the ridiculous Stonewall Jackson bedroom scene in Gods & Generals...or during the retarded win-one-for-the-gipper Presidential pep talk before the climatic battle in Independence Day.
Well Stoned looks like it'll be full of those types of dumb scenes...so I'm sure I'll love it.
Looks kind of like a (very) soft-core porn, no? |
| October 24th, 2005 08:49 AM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
It does look like soft core porn...except without good looking people pretending to have sex. |
| October 24th, 2005 07:07 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Do we not have better things to obsess over?
Yes. Days of Our Lives..
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
| October 24th, 2005 09:25 PM |
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| GhostofBrianJones |
Brian was an addict. He was a drug addict and an alcoholc, just
like Ronnie Wood is. Even though I need to read more about
Ronnie Wood, the Stones are sticking with him and supporting
him the way they did not with Brian because back in the Sixties,
no one knew about the problems with drugs/alcohol like they do
today. If Brian had been able to receive the counseling, rehab
and support that is available today he could have very well been
a much different person. Alcohol and drugs do cause a Dr. Jekyll
and Mr Hyde personality in people who are really addicted them.
Brian in spite of his addiction and emotional problems was an
extremely intelligent man and a brilliant musician. I agree with
Keith for rescuing Miss Anita from Brian's Dark Side when he
was using. Brian started using in 1962 when he was still with
Pat Andrews. Keith was much more patient, easygoing and a
better temperment than Brian was. I have understood that Keith
and Anita did really love each other until their relationship ended.
So the movie is supposed to be out Nov 18 in theatres in the US.
I guess we shall see what it is really like at that time. |
| October 30th, 2005 05:24 PM |
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| The Porkchop Express |
quote:
gorda wrote:
Don't believe everything you read.
And, whatever happened, happened at that is all in the past. No one can go back and change it.
haha yeah okay, great response
it would be nice though if Mick and Keith could do the decent thing and say something decent about Brian. It's so classy of Keith to slag off a dead man, someone who clearly can't defend himself.
Just imagine Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr if they called Lennon and/or Harrison an "asshole". Ridiculous.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Everyone here can appreciate what Brian did for the band,but the FACT is that he did not have the constitution or will of character to fit the bill of being a major star.
bullshit
Brian wanted to be a blues star, a successful musician who could travel the world over. And when the Stones blew up, he loved the spotlight, he loved playing for fans all over the world, the fame, wealth etc. that came with it.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
He was an insecure little man who did alienate many of those around him. Looking at it from any other perspective is simply revisionist history.
more bullshit
Brian was a good person. He only alienated the Stones, because they treated him like shit. ALO, Mick and Keith all ganged up on him, relentlessly picked on him, stole his band, his music and his girl. They nearly destroyed him. It's funny though, that outside of the Stones camp, so many people loved and respected him.
"I always used to see Brian in the clubs and hang out with
him in the mid-sixties. He used to come out to my house
- particularly when he'd got the fear, when he'd mixed
too many wierd things together. I'd hear his voice shouting
to me from out in the garden, 'George, George'.
I'd let him in. He was a good mate.
He would always come round my house in the sitar period.
We talked about 'Paint it Black' and he picked up my sitar
and tried to play it - and the next thing he did was that track.
We had a lot in common when I think about it.
We shared the same date of birth, or nearly, so he must
have been a pieces as well. We also shared positions in
the most prominent bands in the universe, him with
Mick and Keith, and me with Paul and John.
I think he related to me alot and I liked him.
Some people diidn't have time for him but I thought he
was one of the most interesting ones."
- Beatles Anthology p. 203
"When I met him I liked him quite alot.
He was a good fellow you know. I got to know him very well,
I think, and I felt very close to him: you know how it is
with some people, you feel for them, feel near to them.
He was born on February 28, 1943, and I was born
on February 25, 1943, and he was with Mick and Keith,
and I was with John and Paul in the groups, so there was a
sort of understanding between the two of us.
The positions were similar, and I often seemed to meet him
in his times of trouble. There was nothing the matter with
him that a little extra love wouldn't have cured.
I don't think he had enough love or understanding.
He was very nice and sincere and sensitive,
and we must remember that's what he was."
- asked his reaction to Brian's death, newspaper report 1969.
If there is anyone who is a "little insecure man", it is Keith Richards. How classy it is to slag off a dead man, who can't defend himself.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Pete Townshend has said it many times. He said that Brian could be the sweetest man in the room one minute,and then become an absolute asshole the next. You may want to elevate him to some saintly status,but that shit don't play.
You know what? You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Of course, Brian was no angel. But he was forced into a living hell by his so called "friends". Meanwhile, it's pinheads like yourself who believe that Keith Richards is 100% right 100% of the time, seeing as you're regurgitating every lie and piece of b.s. to come out of his depcrepit mouth.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
I have been a fan of the Stones for decades now,and have read everything worth reading on this suject. Without exception the verdict is the same with regards to Brian.
Yeah, good for you.....except that it's quite obvious you haven't done your homework. Because if you had, you clearly wouldn't be talking shit, straight out of your old ass.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
He was an enormously talented man who had no emotional backbone. He tried to cheat the other members of the band out of money in the early days. They never forgot that,or forgave him for it. They exacted some very hard revenge on Brain no doubt,but the guy held his position of "founder" over all their heads for a long time. Even Charlie has said that his behaviour would become "downright boorish" many times.
Wooooooooooooooo.....Brian got a measly five pounds more in the early days! Oh my god! How dare he! That's awful, seeing as he was the one doing all of the work: promoting the band, getting bookings, pushing them to their limit, recruiting every member, naming the band, teaching Keith how to play the guitar, pioneering the "ancient art of weaving", teaching Mick how to play the harmonica, siging the deal with ALO. It was Brian who was doing all of this, while Keith did nothing and sat around at Edith Grove all day, and Mick was off at classes at the London School of Economics. It was Brian who wanted to be a successful musician, to become famous, while the others toiled and had their doubts.
Just look at what Keith once said (before he started talking ill of a dead man, who obviously can't defend himself):
'Brian was just about making enough to keep us from being chucked out of this place and it's winter, like the worst winter ever. Brian and me sitting around this gas fire wondering where to get the next shilling to put in to keep the fire going. Mick was still at school. I was sort of half-way looking for a job. I went out one morning and came back in the evening and Brian was blowin' harp, man. He'd got it together. He's standin' at the top of the stairs yellin', 'Listen to this!' All these blues notes comin' out. He'd figured it out. One day, man!'
And meanwhile, just how many millions have Mick and Keith swindled away from Brian, Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman in songwriting credits? And what about Ry Cooder, who swore never ever to work with Mick and Keith again, and referred to them as "reptiles"?
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
He also was a shit father and an abusive lover. All of this has been well documented. The fact that some here would try and deny or distort the KNOWN facts about Brian is ridiculous.
This here clearly takes the cake. Dude, you are clearly talking shit, straight out of your old, pathetic ass. You know nothing.
This is some of what Pat Andrews has to say about Brian as a father. I'll begin with some text from Golden Stone:
"Life as a dad was certainly strange to Brian, but he adjusted. More than that he coped remarkably well. A bundle of energy himself, he clowned about for hours with Mark who, by now, was at the crawling-madly-all-over-the-place stage and getting into everything he shouldn't.
Pat says: 'Brian was good with Mark. He only once got angry with him, and that was when Mark suddenly took off and started twiddling knobs galore on his amplifier which he'd left on the floor. Brian didn't do anything of course. He just made one almighty dive for Mark and, hoisting him clean away from it, ended up holding Mark at arm's length above his head. Between his dad's broad hands Mark giggled happily down at him and Brian's scowl just melted clean away.' "
But oh wait, there's more!
"Pat had been with him when the dream had first seeded back in Cheltenham. He knew she understood. Now that it was starting to show real growth, it didn't stop their relationship, however, from feeling the first strain. Pat doesn't blame Brian: 'He pushed himself so much you'd never believe it. He would literally starve himself if it meant saving money that he could put towards the Stones. He'd see I had food and Mark, but would do without himself. He was really the Van Gogh of music for his time.' "
Oh, there's more!
"For the next few days he spent his time with Pat and Mark, taking his son on a memorable shopping spree for new clothes. Pat laughs as she remembers: 'Oh, Lord, was that a task! Brian was trying hard to get these grey trousers to fit Mark who was having none of it. Mark was so slim, exactly like his father, all shoulders and nothing else. No waist, no bum, short legs. In the end Brian, exhausted, came out of the cubicle with Mark, triumphant...the pair of them eyeing each other. They'd called a truce!' The previous year Brian had often taken Mark to the fair at Battersea, sitting with him on the swings. This time when he took him, the Stones were playing an open-air gig, competing with all the other park attractions. After they had finished, Brian swiped Mark and, as promised, took him on the rides. Later, hoisting him up on to his broad shoulders, Brian happily horsed about, running madly all over the place with Mark clinging on to him giggling delightedly. All the while Brian was unaware that Andrew was scowling darkly in his direction. 'Oldham was absolutely livid!' says Pat. 'I heard him telling anyone who would listen that Brian should not be romping about with Mark like a bloody family man.' "
Linda Lawrence: 'Just before I got pregnant we were talking about the idea of getting a place together. Then when I got pregnant we actually looked for houses. But as all that was happening the Stones were all happening too. I mean it was like he was being pulled between two things. One thing that I felt he really wanted. And the other thing that he felt he really needed to do, to achieve his musical satisfaction, which is understandable now. I was very young, and he was very young too to be entering the music and a relationship all at the same time. And the way I saw it was - Andrew made it quite clear - that a Rolling Stone shouldn't be a family man. That's not a good image. So I felt Brian got drawn between the two images that people were expecting of him.'
But most importantly, let's look at the opinions of Brian's sons: Julian Mark Andrews and Julian Brian Jones
"Intense ambivalence only begins to explain all the opposites going on inside Mark over Brian. He has never gone about telling people who his father was and not because he isn't proud of Brian. He is. Deeply.
Julian Mark Andrews: 'It gives me a thrill and a buzz to know he's my dad. I'd by lying to you to say otherwise. And yet there's this other part of me that turns away and I don't want to know. I want to be me for myself. I can't remember dad at all. The first time I heard him speak was on an old Ready Steady Go! clip and when I watch himon TV I have these feelings, sort of a twin syndrome thing. On the one hand he's the dad I never had, so I have this sense of loss. I try not to let it rule my life, but I do feel it. But I love being his son.' "
"But the one area he has no hesitation in coming hard down on is Brian's musicianship.
Julian Mark Andrews: 'Without offspring's pride, I rate him very high. When you think of what he did acheive, can you imagine what he'd be doing now? He was a multi-instrumentalist. I mean people like Clapton are good lead guitarists. But dad was a musician!' "
"IT HAS HURT, ANGERED AND OFTEN AMUSED MARK TO READ SOME OF THE NONSENSE WRITTEN ABOUT HIS FATHER. HE HAS HAD TO ADOPT A DEFENSIVE MECHANISM TO ENABLE HIM TO COPE. HE KNOWS BRIAN WASN'T PERFECT. HE CAN ALSO SEE THE BIGGEST RUB IN MANY MINDS ABOUT HIM. BEING BRUTALLY FRANK MARK EXPLAINS,
Julian Mark Andrews: 'Why Brian is often classed as a bastard is this. He made his hobby, his life. It was his passion and he was successful at it. People don't like that. It aggravates them. If you make a career out of your love it's too single-minded and when they don't shart your passion, they feel left out.' "
"Naturally Mark has mixed feelings about what happened to Brian within the Stones. He concedes they were all young at the time, but still think they could've handled his dad better.
Julian Mark Andrews: 'When he wasn't able to look after himself, I can't understand why they didn't help him. They say the band is a family. So how can it be like a marriage when you stand by and watch your partner dissolve away and do nothing.' "
"As for the events leading up to Brian's death, he is even more confused.
Julian Mark Andrews: 'Alexis told me all about dad then, about how hard he was working and how well he was. So I have never accepted the image people have portrayed of him.' "
"Neither does Mark believe that enough was done about it. Mixed up too in all the unsatisfactory mess there is a feeling that in some way Brian's death provided a need for the Stones.
Julian Mark Andrews: 'It almost provided a gem in a way. Today the Stones are still going on the strength of their sixties image. But that's my dad's image. I mean they draw on his imagery. And dad exterted an incredible influence over people.'
Now onto Julian Brian Jones
"But his overriding impact has to be his complete openness about his father. His pride in being Brian's son is immeasurable. There is no messing with Julian.
Julian Brian Jones: 'I'm very proud of my father,' he announces. 'I love him deeply.' "
Julian Brian Jones: 'I've written a few songs, a couple of them for Brian. One's called "Heavy Inside" which is all about dad and my feelings one the way he's been treated.' "
"Though it doesn't come easily, he tries to hard to attach a generous philosophical approach to the horrendous abuse that he's had to stand by and see heaped on his father over the years.
Julian Brian Jones: 'I'M NOT SAYING IT HASN'T HURT, BECAUSE IT HAS. But then what can you do? Life's hard.' "
"Neither is Julian finding it increasingly easy to look with any tolerance any longer at the trials his father faced within the Stones. At fourteen he met the other members of his dad's band for the first time when he had gone along to see a concert.
Julian Brian Jones: 'Charlie invited me backstage,' he explains. 'It was all very exciting, of course, and Mick certainly was the nicest to me, sort of paternal. They asked if I'd like to go with them on to their next gig at Oakland, which I did. Now, when I go to see them, it's different. I feel, I dunno, a coldness from them. I mean they're civil and that, but definitely cold.' "
"Yet for all this his sensitivity is never far from grasp.
Julian Brian Jones: 'I remember meeting dad once when I was very little,' he says urgently. 'I WAS FRIGHTENED AND CRYING AND DAD PICKED ME UP HIGH IN HIS ARMS. I CAN ALWAYS REMEMBER HIS FACE AS HE HUGGED ME CLOSE. SOMETIMES IF I NEED TO, I SHUT MY EYES AND I CAN BRING THAT MOMENT BACK. IT HELPS.' "
The only abusive relationship Brian Jones was involved with was with Anita Pallenberg. Although it must be considered that the two of them were heavily into S&M and had extremely violent, disturbing and down-right weird sex. If indeed Brian was abusive towards her, there is certainly no excuse for it. However his alleged abusive treatment of her can be understood when you examine his brutal, loveless upbrining. Brian Jones never abused Pat Andrews, Linda Lawrence and Anna Wohlin.
So, after taking all of that into consideration, just who exactly is trying to deny or distort the known facts about Brian? What YOU have said is ridiculous. You know nothing.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
I personaly love his contributions to the early days of the band. His multi-instramental abbilities may very well be second to none in the history of rock and roll. Though Steve Winwood was also great in that respect.
At last! At last you are able to say something that is accurate and truthful.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Brian,however,never had the ego for the bussiness. This is just a fact so deal with it.
Yeah okay moron, keep dreaming. If this were true, Brian Jones would never have pursued his passion, his music and his dreams and would not have formed the Rolling Stones.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
To try and blame Mick and Keith for Brian's downfall is utter bullshit. These guys were all in their early twenties at the time and were part of the second largest band in the world. If you could not handle the pressure you quickly became relegated to the back bench. That is exactly what happened to Brian. His physical health and his emotional neediness killed his ability to cope with massive pressure that went with the gig.
Man, you're such an idiot. Andrew Loog Oldham, Mick and Keith all conspired, ganged up on Brian, picked on him constantly, alienated him and stole everything from him. Keith Richards has even admitted this that they were treated Brian poorly. Keith said so in an interview with Playboy magazine. He said: "Mick and I were being merciless on him."
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Riffhard wrote:
"They stole his band,his girl,his sole reason for living,.....blah,blah,blah,..." Get over it! Brian brought almost all of that shit on himself,and you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would dispute that fact.
You're so full of shit it's hilarious. Keep living in your "Keith Richards is saint, a pillar of upstanding character, 100% right 100% of the time" fantasy world.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Yeah he was treated harshly,but he treated many people like shit for years prior to that. Ask Linda or any number of women he impregnated and then walked away from.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Yeah okay dude, and I just completely layed it all right out there for you. Keep talking shit please, it's awesome.
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
The guy's overall personality trait was that of an insecure man who got all the success that he could ever dream of and then could not handle the fame and pressures that came with it. Say what you want about Mick and Keith,but at least they knew enough to toughen up and actully write great songs that brought the band the status of major stardom. Brian,by all accounts,was so insecure that he rarely,if ever,would even show the other members of the band his songs. In short he had "short man's" dissease. He acted way tougher than he really was,and he got called out on it.
Spin it all you want,but the facts are fairly obvious to those who were there at the time. That includes both members of the Stones,and outsiders looking in. It was a rough harsh time and Brian lacked the ego and emotional strength to cope with fame. Hence his abusive behaviour,drug abuse,insecurities,physical health issuses(asthma,etc.) He simply was not strong enough to deal with what he helped create.
Noel Redding: "I've never stopped being amazed that Brian had anything to do with me. I mean there was me, all of twenty - a nobody right? But there I was hangin' out with Brian Jones. There was an ingrained kindness in Brian, really. He was soft spoken, soft natured and yet terrific fun."
Oh and dude, just for you, to add insult to injury, I have to include those wonderful words from George Harrison once more.
"I always used to see Brian in the clubs and hang out with
him in the mid-sixties. He used to come out to my house
- particularly when he'd got the fear, when he'd mixed
too many wierd things together. I'd hear his voice shouting
to me from out in the garden, 'George, George'.
I'd let him in. He was a good mate.
He would always come round my house in the sitar period.
We talked about 'Paint it Black' and he picked up my sitar
and tried to play it - and the next thing he did was that track.
We had a lot in common when I think about it.
We shared the same date of birth, or nearly, so he must
have been a pieces as well. We also shared positions in
the most prominent bands in the universe, him with
Mick and Keith, and me with Paul and John.
I think he related to me alot and I liked him.
Some people diidn't have time for him but I thought he
was one of the most interesting ones."
- Beatles Anthology p. 203
"When I met him I liked him quite alot.
He was a good fellow you know. I got to know him very well,
I think, and I felt very close to him: you know how it is
with some people, you feel for them, feel near to them.
He was born on February 28, 1943, and I was born
on February 25, 1943, and he was with Mick and Keith,
and I was with John and Paul in the groups, so there was a
sort of understanding between the two of us.
The positions were similar, and I often seemed to meet him
in his times of trouble. There was nothing the matter with
him that a little extra love wouldn't have cured.
I don't think he had enough love or understanding.
He was very nice and sincere and sensitive,
and we must remember that's what he was."
- asked his reaction to Brian's death, newspaper report 1969.
"At the farm he enjoyed both the respect and love of his staff. Mary Hallet, in particular, was extremely close to her new hippy boss. Mary had a growing familyof her own tosee to, but she gave what hours she could spare each day to keeping house to Brian. Mary remembers: 'Brian was very thoughtful and kind. He would always stop to help me if he saw me moving a heavy piece of furniture and when he went out to buy things for the house, he would call me in to see what he had bought. Once I admired such a lovely little table. At once he said, 'You do like that table, don't you?' I replied, 'Oh, it's beautiful.' 'They you shall have it,' Brian said, and he gave it to me. It's one of my most treasured possessions.' "
Mick Martin was a gardener at Cotchford Farm. He says about Brian: "He was a first-class bloke and a super boss."
Oh dude, there's still more!
"Tales that Brian waited until the trio had left before breaking down are as exaggerated as the quote from Keith that 'Brian was already effectively dead when he died, because he was already out of the band' was both callous and wildly inaccurate. Brian may have finally severed from the Stones, but he was far from ready to keel over. Years later, Alexis told Brian's son Mark: 'Without a doubt your father felt that a great weight had been lifted off his shoulders once he had finally quit the Stones. He knew what he wanted, and that it was no longer with the band. He wanted back to R&B. He was writing songs too and working very hard. I was with him a lot during this time and he was in very fine fettle indeed.'
Ronni too maintains: 'Naw, naw. All this talk about Brian being crushed is a load of shit! I was in LA by this time, but Brian and I used to ring each other practically every week all the time he was at Cotchford and the truth is he was strong. He knew fin he was leaving long before he did. He often used to say to me, 'They're wanting me out, Ronni.' And he wasn't being paranoid at all. It was a matter of fact. We used to have some real long talks and even on the end of the telephone I knew he was really off drugs. The high he was in was the real him - the way only Brian could be when he was excited and fired up about something. Believe me, I could tell the difference. He was his old self all right. I was delighted for him.'
"His spirits in fact were excellent all around. Brian called his father one night late, full of joy urgently inviting them to Cotchford. Says Lewis: 'Typical of Brian, we had a call in the early hours of the morning, full of bubbling enthusiasm aboutthe beauties of his house and the loveliness of the particular summer we were having at that time. And he said,'Come down in the morning.' Well, of course, this was easier said than done. I mean we couldn't come down in the morning, but I suppose this was about Tuesday. We did in actual fact go down before the weekend and we spent that weekend with him. We are particularly glad of course now that we went and were able to go because we spent an intensely happy weekend with him. Probably the happiest and closest weekend we'd spent with him since he was a child. And of course it ws in actual fact the last time we ever saw him.'
So there you have it. If you want to continue, be my guest. I will school your misinformed, ignorant ass.
Just remember, when you spew and regurgitate the lies and bullshit of Keith Richards and others who are doing their best to forever tarnish the memory of Brian and re-write history, you are also insulting and deeply hurting his sons and those who know the truth. |
| October 30th, 2005 05:38 PM |
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| The Porkchop Express |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
The question I want answered is....who gives a fuck?
Holy hell people...it's going on 40 years past! Almost all of the principals in the issue are dead, or soon will be dead.
He was one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century and started one of the greatest rock n' roll bands ever.
You know who gives a fuck? His fans. But not only his fans, but his surviving family members, who still have to deal with the abuse levied on him to this day
quote:
GhostofBrianJones wrote:
Brian was an addict. He was a drug addict and an alcoholc, just
like Ronnie Wood is.
I'm sorry but you're greatly misinformed. Brian really started to clean up after his first bust in 1967. And by the time he moved to Cotchford Farm, he was completely drug-free. He was turning his life around and getting a grip on himself. |
| October 30th, 2005 06:33 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
Porksmack, congrats on the longest post in RO history. You don't really believe anyone is going to read all that do you?
Anyway, that movie looks slick. Can hardly wait to see it. I hope it has sex, drugs, and rock and roll in it. |
| October 31st, 2005 04:59 AM |
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| Voodoo Scrounge |
Is that david walliams in the trailer? |
| October 31st, 2005 05:13 PM |
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| Sleepy London Clown |
quote:
Voodoo Scrounge wrote:
Is that david walliams in the trailer?
Yes, I think it is |
| October 31st, 2005 09:23 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Hey Porkchop could you please "nutshell" that post for me fucknut? TIA!
Riffy |
| November 1st, 2005 01:03 AM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
>You know who gives a fuck? His fans.<
Wrong. I'm a fan of Brian Jones the musician, and I really don't care about the circumstances of his death. You know why? Because he's still gonna be dead regardless. I think you need to ammend your statement from "His fans" to "His freakishly obsessive fans". I'd say almost every person who posts here regularly considers him/herself as a fan of Brian Jones. I really don't think many of us really care if Brian drowned or was drowned. We have accepted his death. And the world keeps turning.
I just had my bestest buddy in the world since elementary school blow his brains out end of Sept. I've had several folks offer to fill me in on the circumstances of his death. I stop them. I don't want or need to know. I already know everything that I need to know...my brother is dead. People say to me, don't you want to know WHY? No, I don't. WHY doesn't change a fucking thing. What possible difference could WHY make? He's dead, and no amount of WHY is going to change that, or make anyone feel better. If WHY doesn't matter to me in an intimate instance like mine that happened just last month...it sure as shit doesn't matter in an instance that happened 30+ years ago to people that I never knew.
I have enough to deal with in my everyday life than to give a rat's ass about Brian's death. I know all I need to know...Brian is dead. The rest is moot.
The movie looks like a hoot. I hope a cinema near me shows it. It looks like a "limited run" and straight to DVD type flick though. |
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