| 18th October 2007 01:24 AM |
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| IanBillen |
You know the Stones have been using world renound audio engineer ED Cherney the last few recordings in conjunction with with Don Was. (often big producers have a pick or two of their favorite engineers to work with). Was and Cherney often work as a team.
However remember in the "Licks" documentary Keith was really pissed off at Cherney because he could not hear himself in the mix well enough...
He was saying "where the fuck am I?" and then Keith stormed out of the control room.
Notice Kirsh Sharma did the engineering for A Bigger Bang and Ed was not there this time around... hmmmm even though Don Was was producer.
I think Keith had it with Cherney (even though Cherney certainly is not known for poor work,.... infact he is argueably the top audio engineer working on world wide releases). Just taking note of this. Any thoughts?
Ian |
| 18th October 2007 02:03 AM |
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| pdog |
So, that is why ABB sucks? |
| 18th October 2007 02:37 AM |
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| mrhipfl |
interesting. Keith is very high in the mix on ABB...
But then again, he sorta has to be since ABB is only guitar, bass and drums.
[Edited by mrhipfl] |
| 18th October 2007 10:34 PM |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
mrhipfl wrote:
interesting. Keith is very high in the mix on ABB...
But then again, he sorta has to be since ABB is only guitar, bass and drums.
[Edited by mrhipfl]
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Yeah youre right. Glad you hear it that way because I have heard ABB called "contemporary Pop", "weak in the guitar section", and even "light"...
I would like to know what the hell album they are listening to?...it is anything but those. ABB sounds like what it was designed to be... a ballsy, guitar, loud, and hard hitting rock based album. How some folks hear it in the vain they do is really beyond me?
Ian |
| 18th October 2007 10:43 PM |
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| Soldatti |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
I would like to know what the hell album they are listening to?...it is anything but those. ABB sounds like what it was designed to be... a ballsy, guitar, loud, and hard hitting rock based album. How some folks hear it in the vain they do is really beyond me?
You missed the unimaginative, generic and some horrible songs part. |
| 18th October 2007 11:17 PM |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
Soldatti wrote:
You missed the unimaginative, generic and some horrible songs part.
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I do not think any song off of ABB is horrible or even a throw away. They are all at-least fairly good tunes. I do not think anything on there is a throwaway tune. Generic? Sure it is real basic Stones in terms of the "song writing" and production for the most part with not hardly any experimentation or following any "Poppy Trends".
*But isn't that what we all asked for??? Isn't that what everyone was bitching about before this album?
Just the Stones rocking out in a stripped down fashion.
They even did the better portion of it all alone at Micks house secluded away from the big cities and major studios (minus a few techs, an assistant or two and Don Was and Kirsh Sharma). Harldy no studio musicians involved this time around for cryin out loud.
They gave you all exactly what you had been crying about. And they did a damn fine job.
Yet people love to complain...
Ian |
| 19th October 2007 01:33 AM |
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| aladdinstory |
you bring up some valid points in this post.
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
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I do not think any song off of ABB is horrible or even a throw away. They are all at-least fairly good tunes. I do not think anything on there is a throwaway tune. Generic? Sure it is real basic Stones in terms of the "song writing" and production for the most part with not hardly any experimentation or following any "Poppy Trends".
*But isn't that what we all asked for??? Isn't that what everyone was bitching about before this album?
Just the Stones rocking out in a stripped down fashion.
They even did the better portion of it all alone at Micks house secluded away from the big cities and major studios (minus a few techs, an assistant or two and Don Was and Kirsh Sharma). Harldy no studio musicians involved this time around for cryin out loud.
They gave you all exactly what you had been crying about. And they did a damn fine job.
Yet people love to complain...
Ian
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| 19th October 2007 02:12 AM |
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| Starbuck |
quote:
world renound audio engineer ED Cherney
what the hell is a "renound"?
 |
| 19th October 2007 02:26 AM |
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| Altamont |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
what the hell is a "renound"?
It's very similar to "reverbd". |
| 19th October 2007 03:00 PM |
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| gimmekeef |
Considering the dearth of any decent guitar rock being made these days...its a wonder how any engineers would know what do with real sound...( I await your list of exceptions I'm sure) |
| 21st October 2007 02:43 AM |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
Considering the dearth of any decent guitar rock being made these days...its a wonder how any engineers would know what do with real sound...( I await your list of exceptions I'm sure)
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Well yeah, I see that point too. Not a whole lot of talent out there. Jack White is really good.
By talent I mean "their unique sound". Not speed or tricks. Just a true unique sound. That is what makes a truly great guitarist.
But I think that the engineers out there (along with the producers) could try and create the best possible sound scenario for whoever so I am still at a loss why not many really unique or good sounding guitarists are out there.
I realize the production style of today doesn't often warrant that right now but still...why do we not hear more guitars sound in the vain of a Jack White or something?
Sure you can only make it so good with out a truly good musician performing but you would think more engineers/producers would at least try to make some really ballsy sounding stuff...
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen] |
| 21st October 2007 10:20 AM |
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| BILL PERKS |
EVERYBODY,EVEN KEEF NOW,ARE YES MEN TO JAGGER,INCLUDING DON WAS |
| 22nd October 2007 02:42 AM |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]BILL PERKS wrote:
EVERYBODY,EVEN KEEF NOW,ARE YES MEN TO JAGGER,INCLUDING DON WAS
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Sure alot of ABB was centered around Mick....it was done at his house. But.... still Keith was the one who insisted it be done there in the first place to Jaggers initial disagreeance remember. Mick kept saying "no we have to go into the studio" and Keith kept saying "no I think if it aint broke don't fix it. We can do the whole thing right here". And Keith was right, and the album rocks.
What you hear about Keith being a "YES man to Jagger" these days I am sure is not true for the better half of matters.
They were in a phase these last few years where they both agreed on a lot and just got along good.
Kinda like they used to in the sixties and early seventies.
*That is one of the reasons we had such a nice album this time out with ABB. Relish in it.
They will disagree in the future I am sure but these last few years they have been seeing eye to eye. That does not mean Keith is now a "yes man" to jagger and does everything Jagger says. It is a simple matter of agreeance for now is all.
No biggy. Still the same Keith, still the same Mick Jagger.
Ian |
| 22nd October 2007 03:26 AM |
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| pdog |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
what the hell is a "renound"?
nounding over and over... |
| 22nd October 2007 03:32 AM |
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| mirfälltkeinnameein |
[quote]IanBillen wrote:
[quote]BILL PERKS wrote:
EVERYBODY,EVEN KEEF NOW,ARE YES MEN TO JAGGER,INCLUDING DON WAS
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Sure alot of ABB was centered around Mick....it was done at his house. But.... still Keith was the one who insisted it be done there in the first place to Jaggers initial disagreeance remember. Mick kept saying "no we have to go into the studio" and Keith kept saying "no I think if it aint broke don't fix it. We can do the whole thing right here". And Keith was right, and the album rocks.
hi
i agree with you on most things, but i have one question. why do you know, what they said to each other in Mick´s house? if i remember right they were in a studio in LA afterwards. (after working in Mick´s house) |
| 22nd October 2007 04:17 AM |
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| The jinn, my friend. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNl2Pm9-7Vk |
| 22nd October 2007 02:34 PM |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]mirfälltkeinnameein wrote:
[quote]IanBillen wrote:
[quote]BILL PERKS wrote:
EVERYBODY,EVEN KEEF NOW,ARE YES MEN TO JAGGER,INCLUDING DON WAS
____________________________________________________________
Sure alot of ABB was centered around Mick....it was done at his house. But.... still Keith was the one who insisted it be done there in the first place to Jaggers initial disagreeance remember. Mick kept saying "no we have to go into the studio" and Keith kept saying "no I think if it aint broke don't fix it. We can do the whole thing right here". And Keith was right, and the album rocks.
hi
i agree with you on most things, but i have one question. why do you know, what they said to each other in Mick´s house? if i remember right they were in a studio in LA afterwards. (after working in Mick´s house)
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Keith said this candidly in an interview, so did Mick in reference on why the album was done at Micks and the conversation they had about the debate. Charlie also had input on why they chose Micks by saying not only were Mick and Keith firing on all cylinders together he said "they had a very good sounding room" which in addition helped out on the decision they made to stay there. Mick kept saying "no we have to go to a studio" and Keith kept saying "Mick, I think we can do the whole album right here". Finally Mick realized what they had going there and went with the idea. I seen them say this in an interview word for word actually.
By the time they got to the studio in LA the album was already "85 % finished" Mick said at the press conference.
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen] |
| 23rd October 2007 05:05 AM |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
Considering the dearth of any decent guitar rock being made these days...its a wonder how any engineers would know what do with real sound...( I await your list of exceptions I'm sure)
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Hmmmm. Interesting thought. I personally know someone who was an intern at a studio Cherney came to mix a surround sound product at for three days in Los Angeles.
I asked him what the mix was like in comparison to other engineers he has heard.
He said it was really good in terms of a quality comparison and that he definately seemed to know what he wanted. Although he went on to say almost all the bigger names seemed to already know what they wanted just by a listen or two to the original recorded tracks.
He stated he was worthy of his name from what he heard. Now since this post I called him and asked him on his opinion since he has heard several top engioneers on Cherney may be be like doing a garage rock guitar with a lot of nuts and if he would of picked Cherney to try that from what he witnesed.
He said there was no way of knowing from the product he heard him mix being it was a surround sound mix and was not in that vain. He said that from what he heard in the control room in two hours from starting point he said he seemed worthy of his world class name at least.
Cherney has a rep for being a real dick-head (unlike his counterpart Don Was) and I asked him if he could see him butting heads with someone (such as our Keith and saying scew this). He said Cherney was always down to earth and really cool with everyone there including him, a no-name intern at the time. He said strangely Cherney kept to himself more than most engineers that were booked there. By the way he said Cherney loves Marlboro reds and Popeyes Chicken like mad...since he would have to keep Cherney happy being the studio intern at the time.
Just a tid-bit note
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen] |
| 23rd October 2007 07:16 AM |
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| gotdablouse |
Is that Keith/Cherney incident on the FF DVD ? If yes, where exactly, don't remember seeing it.
A few comments:
1. Keith has no choice but being a "yes man" to Jagger as he no longer seems to be able to write any songs of interest.
2. Yes, ABB is mostly made up of bland/generic songs and poorly played, well the playing is technically ok, but generic too. Other than the 5 note solo of DB there is no memorable guitar part.
3. That's why B2B has aged much better, different styles, much better production and more imaginative guitar parts (Waddy's superb rythm part on SOM, Ronnie's dobro on AOM, etc...).
4. ABB would have been much better with Waddy Wachtel playing and without horrible songs like SSMC, LWTCDI, DTF and more stuff like LIND that reminds me of the slow side of Tattoo You each time I hear it !
[Edited by gotdablouse] |
| 23rd October 2007 09:47 AM |
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| Mel Belli |
I can't imagine that scene in FF led to anyone's firing. Keith was clearly being a huge baby, and everyone was basically snickering at his little tantrum. He was just trying to throw his weight around ... those A and D chords must've been hard to get a handle on. |
