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| Miss U. |
confidential. thanx
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/chlorinedreammadstifledwitness/ |
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| VoodooTattoo |
Charlie says he is sure that Brian just got into the heated swimming pool under the influence of narcotics and fell asleep. This has happened to 4 people I knew who feel asleep like that and never woke up...
I dont think there was any foul play. |
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| gypsymofo60 |
No offense, but I agree with Voodootattoo. Brian was at one time a fucking great musician, but Brian was a classic fuck up, and I for one get sick to death of all these conspiracy theorists. He did it, she did it, they did it! For God's sake it's been over thirty years since Brian died, let it rest! The closest anyone's come to exposing any foul play was when one of the young builders working on Cotchford Farm at the time admitted that there had been some rough stuff in the pool years later. Brian was on so much shit who knows what he'd taken that night? Induced chemicals and warm swimming pools do not go together well, it's a fact! All this conspiracy rubbish sells books, that's why it never goes away. Why on earth would The Sussex constabulary after thirty, or so years reopen a case on what they would simply term, the death of another pop star junkie? They have, I'm sorry to be blunt here, far more pressing cases on their books at the moment. To be quite honest I would rather that they concentrate on what drives people to abduct, and brutalise poor little kids like the girl who was killed in that district recently. Brian's dead! As Pete Townshend said at the time anyway, "It was just another day for Brian, you know; he died everyday!" Truer words were never spoken. |
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| gypsymofo60 |
Gypsy, why did you delete your last post? You made a very pertanent point. |
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| stonedinaustralia |
well gm60 i'd say it's still an open verdict - i take your points re "conspiracy theories" and "what does it matter now" but i expect you only know what you know the same way i know it, which, at bottom, means that we both really know nothing about it at all
imo there's some weight in the arguments, not that he was murdered, but certainly a manslaughter rap might of stuck
some of those theories make sense - i mean - i dunno - but these tales of builders ripping him off and having it large on his account and at the same time resenting and ridiculing him - a bit of party come drinks session at the end of the day - things get a little out of hand - like i say, i dunno...
sure he was out of it - but in the end the record is not clear and the coroner made the only finding that was really open to him
ultimately, seen from a broad and some might say an overly romantic perspective, "death by mis-adventure", what-ever the facts, would still hold true - a (mis)adventure that started the night alexis korner came to cheltenham??
f$%k who knows, it's too late for the truth - as a particularly astute gentleman from the 18th century put it "history is the commonly accepted lie"
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
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| gypsymofo60 |
StonedinOZ, there is no doubt that alot was pushed under the carpet, but I don't think it had anything to do with a murder, over enthusiastic hi-jinx, mixed with a fragile, and more than likely drugged up Brian, nothing deliberate, or premeditated in my opinion. Anna Wohlin was obviously spirited out of Britain very quickly, and well Tom Keylock was always suss, Thorogood was just a handy name. You've obviously read the books that put forward these conspiracy theories, and Hotchner's book in my opinion was just sensationalistic bullshit, I'd put more store in Sanchez. The verdict was death by immersion in fresh water, there was no other finding. The coroner also found that the internal organs were in a progressed state of degradation. Brian was on the way out anyway, and as I say, conspiracy theories sell books that otherwise would be ignored. The real point is the Sussex police are as likely to re-open the case as Jim Morrisson is to appear on Letterman tonight. Another popstar death, that's Brian's epitaph. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Yeah, I don't know what happened to Brian that night, other than he drowned. But this brings up the question, what would be acomplished by reopening this case? Is there anything to be gained? Will anything change?
How would the investigation proceed? Having some experience with police investigations, I can tell you that one thing that would probably happen, and this is disturbing, is that Brian's remains would have to be exhumed for examination by forensic experts. Another thing is that several of the material witnesses in this case are now dead. The chances of a new inquiry finding anything different from the original case is very slim. Is it really worth the effort? I don't think so.
I would like to know what really happened that night. But to me, the cost of finding out that information is just too high, and the probability of actually getting at the truth is very small.
Let Brian rest in peace. |
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| gypsy |
Yeah, I deleted it, because there is no use in arguing with someone who is an idiot. She'll always be obsessed with Brian. I just don't understand this fixation she has. There are far more important matters to dedicate yourself to than to solving the death of a rock star. |
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| Joey |
" There are far more important matters to dedicate yourself to than to solving the death of a rock star. "
Yeah , like getting rid of my beer ti##ies !!!!!!
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| gypsymofo60 |
Hate to be morbid here but, after 33 years, there would be virtualy nothing left of Brian but, dust & bones. Even with modern technology they could use nothing there to determine an actual cause of death, let alone whether there were suspicious circumstances. My own personal opinion on that night goes something like this; big party, pop star, girlfriend, out of the blue buddies, because Brian went through buddies like I go through toilet paper. Drug psychosis, after how many years of undiluted abuse? The builders are getting drunk, Brian's got all this money, a great house, fame, gorgeous looking girlfriend, jealousy creeps in. Things get a bit rough, Brian's more fragile than anyone realises, a combination of a warm night, I remember it in London, alcohol,drugs, and fragility, and suddenly; Brian slips away. Everyone panics, everyone quickly concocts a story that will satisfy the local plod. Except as time goes on little indescrepacies in peoples stories come to the fore. If it wasn't Brian those indescrepencies would be ignored after being investigated. But The Stones sell books you see, and people like Hotchner know that just another book on The Stones is not going to have as much, if any impact after so many; so he uses the Brian was murdered approach. And that will always sell books. |
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| Miss U. |
It's not just Hotchner.
There have been many contradictory books written that describe discrepancies that nite, and many factors that arouse enough suspicion from witness testimonials in those books that the case should be re-opened to find out what really DID happen that nite. Brian had fresh water in his lungs, not chlorine water. Also take a look at the autopsy report on my site and you will see that Brian only had the equivalent of 4 beers in his system, peanuts for him. Nothing found in his urine led to his death. He did not die of drugs. Why reopen the case? Because Brian wouldn't want a couple of non-Stones fans 'fans' posting bullshit perpetuating myths that he died of drugs, indirectly or directly. I believe in justice. I'm sure if you were murdered wouldn't you want the truth to be known about your death???
Anyone who's really a Stones fan would want the truth to be known. What harm does it do to try? Only if enough fans care and pressure the police will they re-open it, *maybe*.
As for Gypsy, well she's an idiot obsessed with Anita. Go figure.
[Edited by Miss U.] |
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| Nellcote |
I've not a clue by asking this, however, here goes.
Is it Brian's relatives whom are clamoring for the local authorities to reopen the case? If so, let them go about it. Let them do it to satisfy their rights in this matter.
Let them pay for the forensics, etc.
If it is Stones fans, who have absolutely no rights in this matter at all, let it go. Take this positve energy, do something constructive. Celebrate what was, leave what is alone.
Or....
Sit back, roll a fatty, put on Satanic, let him rest in peace. Celebrate his music. He would have never wanted anything else. Possibly, he would have cared between 1961-1964, however, after that, Brian was the cause of Brian's problems. Just as Hendrix was the cause of his problems.
It's as simple as that.
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| Miss U. |
Nellcote:
I'm doing this at the suggestion of another BJ fan.
Has it occurred to you it's possible to enjoy Brian's music and talents AND also want the truth to be investigated & known finally for Brian's sake? I'm by no means dwelling solely on his death. My site is about focussing on the here & now, Brian's music & continuing influence, my love of the Stones etc.
I'm all for being positive & proactive, which is why I offered to create the petition. If you don't support it, don't sign it, simple as that. But I imagine most Stones/Brian fans would support it. |
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| gypsymofo60 |
Miss U, please don't take this the wrong way, as I would never like a lady to feel I was being disrespectful, but how is it that by being honest about Brian, I am refered to as a non-Stones fan? That's daft! Apparently Brian was cleaning up his act, yes! But every man, and his dog knows that Brian was on his way anyway. It isn't really a case of HOW MUCH alcohol, or other substances,(if any)were in Brian's system, someone addicted to say, a painkiller can take huge amounts of the drug for years without any detremental affects, and then after a period of short abstinence, take a very small dose, and die. The vagaries of the human liver, Brian's was shot apparently. I agree not everything is as it should have been surrounding Brian's death, and yes! Hotchner is not alone in his theories, but the point is, The Sussex police, and anybody else originaly involved in the case have better things to do than re-open Brian's case. Brian was a cluey guy, whom I'm sure would agree that after thirty something years it would be pointless. As for what I would want if it was me; well! I already know that my own chemical abuse of 20 years has shortened my life expectancy, and if I was to die mysteriously in a swimming pool tomorrow, I would see no point in reopening the case in 30 years just to see if I really hadn't been murdered. Hopefully, Brian today cares less about that night than any of us do, that's what I like to believe anyway. |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
Miss U. wrote:
Why reopen the case? Because Brian wouldn't want a couple of non-Stones fans 'fans' posting bullshit perpetuating myths that he died of drugs, indirectly or directly.(...)I'm sure if you were murdered wouldn't you want the truth to be known about your death???
Miss U., no offense meant but re your first statement as quoted above - how can you possibly presume to speak for a dead man you didn't even know??
and your suggestion that drugs did not, at least indirectly, have some influence on his death (and i admit it "may be" very indirect - as i said above, who knows)is somewhat naive
regarding the quote as a whole i would have thought that one of the "up-sides" of dying is that you finally no longer have to worry about (or be effected by)what anybody did,does, thinks or says
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
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| Child of the Moon |
quote:
Joey wrote:
" There are far more important matters to dedicate yourself to than to solving the death of a rock star. "
Yeah , like getting rid of my beer ti##ies !!!!!!
I would hereby like to start a petition to help get rid of Joey's beer ti##ies. Anyone else up for it? I think this is a pertinent matter.
We're with you, Joey, all the way. |
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| gypsy |
Miss U, keep up the good work! Brian would appreciate it. He didn't drown himself, ya know! Or did he? Hmmm...I'm sure you'll find the closure that you need. You ROCK! |
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| Dandelion* |
Hey - too bad they didn't release that Mark David Chapman guy. We coulda set you two up! 
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Gypsymofo! Au Contrare! There would be lots of Brian left to analyze. Forensic experts can do wonders with a scrap of bone, a wisp of hair.
But my point is, how could someone who professes to care about his memory, want to put Brian, & his remaining family through the trauma of digging up his corpse. You see, I know about police investigations. There can be no investigation into the cause of his death, and the circumstances around that death WITHOUT a forensic examination. It is protocol. There is evidence there. The police HAVE to look there. They can't just do some interviews, and review old documents. That isn't how it works. If they re-open, they have to go all the way. And that WILL include exhumation of Brian's remains.
I think the folks behind this, no matter how well intentioned, have not thought this all the way through. It is a noble thought, the truth, justice being done. But I don't think that they realized what the COST of that investigation would be....not cost in money....but the cost to Brian's family.
I wonder if they really think that the world will take notice about such an investigation. The supermarket tabloids, gossip mongers, trash TV....THAT is who would take notice. Brian would be splashed all over the trash media. The trash media will print whatever they want...true or not.
I understand the motive of the petition. But, as good as the intention is....it would cause more pain and harm to the memory of Brian, and Brian's family, than the truth is worth. |
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| gypsy |
Very well put, SS!
Love your comment also, Dandelion*! |
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| gypsymofo60 |
Sir Stones, I understand what can be achieved with DNA retrieval these days, I too have a background in the field. But after thirty or more years the little that would be left to exhume(mainly bone), would shed no further light on whether or not Brian was MURDERED. The people who wish to see the case reopened may feel they have Brian's interests at heart, but as you say, they probably have not thought this through properly. Surely if they had they would see how distressing this would be to Brian's family, his life, and death have for over thirty years been turned into a disgusting soap-opera, and would be sleuths such as Hotchner and his sensationalist clap-trap help not Brian, nor his legacy. Why do people need to believe he was murdered? Why can't people just accept that Brian chose to live life on the edge, and paid the price? Again I say, the Sussex police have more pressing cases to attend to, such as the abduction, and murder of a young girl today. |
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| KeepRigid |
As much as we all loved Brian, I'm afraid any authorities assigned to this case would say 'best to leave it unsolved'. |
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| gypsy |
Well, it would be costly, as they would have to hire a forensic anthropologist. They can virtually name their price, as there are not very many in the world. So, is it worth it? That is a tough question indeed... |
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| gypsymofo60 |
Gypsy, that's interesting! Would they after a mere thirty three years need an anthropologist? As opposed to an ordinary pathologist. |
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| gypsy |
I'm not sure if they would need a forensic pathologist or a forensic anthropologist. I have no idea of the condition of Brian's corpse. I would think just a forensic pathologist would be necessary, since he drowned. Now, if he were burned in a horrible fire, then a forensic anthropologist might be needed. |
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| Miss U. |
I hope gypsy/gypsy mofo/dandelion enjoy talking to themselves here.
Like I said, any Stones fan would want the truth to be uncovered.
Gypsymofo, posting your amateurish forensic opinion on Brian's death isn't the same as "being honest about Brian".
I won't dispute what a professional forensic pathologist has already said about Brian's death, as in the autopsy report on my site.
It's sad that there's so many false rumours that Brian died of drugs. As Anna Wohlin has said, Brian wouldn't want people to think he died that way, which was the impetus for her writing her book. Yet bullshit myths and rumours continue, and cause harm to Brian's memory.
Soon many of the people there that nite will be dead...more reason to get a petition going soon. |
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| gypsy |
You REALLY need help. |
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| gypsymofo60 |
Oh OK Miss U! When in doubt revert to snide remarks, point 1. lovey! You don't have to be a professional pathologist to know how the body decomposes after thirty three years. Point 2. Brian took drugs throughout his final years, I'm sure even his closest friends would not deny that. Point 3. Anna Wohlin has alot to say thirty years down the track doesn't she, pity she couldn't hang around to tell the tale way back when. You need to concentrate on the here, and now, and to understand that just because not everybody is gonna jump up and down about your little crusade, that is no excuse to get vindictive, but you will do as you will. it's your life, waste it as you will. |
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| KeepRigid |
Technically, I'm the only one talking to himself here. |
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| gypsy |
Keep, you talk to your lawyer... |
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