| October 7th, 2004 03:47 PM |
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| Mathijs |
>I agree that we shouldn't discuss politics to the point >where we hate each other but I think Mathjis has already >long ago surpassed that point with me. I might disagree >with some others but I don't hold them in contempt.
What you probably hate the most about me is that my opinions are well over thought. You can not deny me with "what a bollocks, what a lunatic, just a crazy wanker". As opposed you might be to me, the feeling I very well might be right bothers you the most.
As I never insulted anyone personnaly, it can not be something personal.
Mathijs
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| October 7th, 2004 03:54 PM |
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| glencar |
Well thought out? Not hardly. But in the interest of board peace, I'll drop it. Just so long as you know where I stand. |
| October 7th, 2004 04:05 PM |
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| Poplar |
Americans are being thrown out of coffee houses? That's just ridiculous, and doesn't sound very tolerant to me. I've never heard one story about a Frenchman being harassed in the US. I wonder if Ann frank felt this way about Americans as she hid in that attic. I've been to Amsterdam twice - and if everyone there truly feels Bush is the monster in this world, is there anyone left there that remembers the 20th century?
And for the Vietnam comparison: do a little reading please, and you'll find that in just weeks of fighting in Vietnam (at several points in 1969, for example) we lost more lives than we have during the entire Iraq campaign. The comparison is insane, and wreckless.
and good point - I wish all the best for those who will be voting (many for the first time in their lives) in afghanistan on Saturday. What monsters we americans are for giving them their freedom. |
| October 7th, 2004 04:06 PM |
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| Poplar |
quote:
glencar wrote:
Well thought out? Not hardly. But in the interest of board peace, I'll drop it. Just so long as you know where I stand.
fair enough - but History will judge us kindly.
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| October 7th, 2004 04:19 PM |
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| gypsy |
glen, i just read mizz u's outburst over at sd's. she is scary---in the mark david chapman way. |
| October 7th, 2004 04:27 PM |
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| glencar |
I know! I can't believe she's so "loose." I'd step carefully there though. |
| October 7th, 2004 04:31 PM |
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| gypsy |
I know she's just dying for me to reply, so she can tell Doug, and get me banned. I won't give her the satisfaction. I honestly have no idea how she functions in society, holds down a job, etc...I imagine her life is very sad with no friends whatsoever. I feel sorry for her...really. That must be a sad lonely life she lives. |
| October 7th, 2004 04:33 PM |
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| glencar |
I think she's married but I've never met her. She's not the same person as Flynn Welles or Mary Manning, is she? |
| October 7th, 2004 04:34 PM |
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| glencar |
And I think you're right not to reply. She's probably going to troll so be careful unless you don't care about getting abnned. |
| October 7th, 2004 05:29 PM |
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| Angiegirl |
quote:
glencar wrote:
so be careful unless you don't care about getting abnned.
I wouldn't care getting abnned. I think... 
Just read the discussion, it made my night. Great stuff. When's the book coming out? |
| October 7th, 2004 06:33 PM |
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| Mathijs |
It's just so very unfortunate that the average American Stones fan is a fat, 50 year old, balding Republican redneck, it makes all these discussions obsolete.
It's the Americans fucking arrogance again -"but they will vote in Afganistan". It's Descartes (sorry, a French guy again, so you americans wouldn't know about him) who said: "Democracy is not the freedom to vote, but it is how much blood needs to be spilled to get rid off the ones who are voted for". Afganistan is not a country, it's a pile of rubbish with 100 different tribes fighting eachother for that one bone. 10% of the population can vote for one of the many warlords, and one guy put in power by the US. So they are going to vote -the Americans again have put THEIR version of freedom upon a part of this world.
Mathijs |
| October 7th, 2004 06:51 PM |
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| Poplar |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
It's just so very unfortunate that the average American Stones fan is a fat, 50 year old, balding Republican redneck, it makes all these discussions obsolete.
It's the Americans fucking arrogance again -"but they will vote in Afganistan". It's Descartes (sorry, a French guy again, so you americans wouldn't know about him)
Mathijs
6'1"... 165 pounds... 29 yrs old... full head of medium length brown hair... took several years of philosophy before getting my degree in history, and I'm quite familiar with Cartesian principals.
I'm also smart enough not to offer such insulting generalizations and judgments about other nations. You don't know dick about my country.
[Edited by Poplar] |
| October 7th, 2004 06:54 PM |
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| Some Guy |
It's all about the oil. |
| October 7th, 2004 06:58 PM |
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| Poplar |
Oil - you mean the kickbacks French companies were getting from Saddam through the oil for food program? Little wonder they opposed the war, I even heard the BBC (hardly conservative journalism) admit to that today.
[Edited by Poplar] |
| October 7th, 2004 07:02 PM |
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| gypsy |
No, glencar, she is not married. Wonder why not...
Did you read her most recent outburst? It's horrendous. I'm not going near that. |
| October 7th, 2004 07:05 PM |
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| caro |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
It's just so very unfortunate that the average American Stones fan is a fat, 50 year old, balding Republican redneck, it makes all these discussions obsolete.
Ugh. Please note that the average European doesn't necessarily agree with Mathijs. |
| October 7th, 2004 07:07 PM |
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| gypsy |
It has been duly noted!
How are you, caro? |
| October 7th, 2004 07:13 PM |
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| Poplar |
I wouldn't dare think that Caro!
Thank you.
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| October 7th, 2004 08:29 PM |
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| Angiegirl |
I do agree with the age, fat and bald part of the 'average' Stones fan, but that's a standard we have in Holland too  .
Bush, imo, is a nut job of classical proportions given what I've seen from him so far. I can't stand the guy, and I don't even know him, damn! I get a bitter taste in my mouth everytime I catch a glimpse of that idiot puppet on tv, can't help it. Couldn't say anything about Kerry, coz I don't know enough about him (except that he's ugly too, but that's beside the political point).
Too bad these discussions always have to be so friggin' black-and-white: 'if you don't LOVE Bush, you're approving of the Islamic terrorists/you're in Osama's or Hussein's (training) camp'; 'if you don't agree with America's current (foreign) politics, you're ignorant/ungreatful/being French/blablabla whatever and vice-versa'; 'all Muslims are evil but all non-muslim (read: Christians) are pure and clean (read: superior) and vv; 'if you're an American, you're stupid/you approve of Bush'. And on and on. It's tiresome.
Too bad the world and the human race isn't that B/W, but somewhat more complicated, as is forming an opinion about some things.
I try to avoid talking about The American, The European, The Muslim, whatever (although I catch myself doing that very thing anyway from time to time, I admit). I live in a country with a current government that has no backbone, doesn't dare to take a stand of its own and shits its pants out of fear to fall outta grace with the current Bush-administration if it doesn't lick its boots fast enough. That's my point of view on Dutch politics. So ya see, I critisize my own government too, there's no 'European' as there are many different countries in Europe (even more to come), some of which support the Bush-decisions, and some don't. Just like there isn't an average American. There are noticeable strong tendencies and trends everywhere tho. We (Americans and Dutch) even have something in common: we both have to deal with a government the majority of the people didn't vote for...
Glencar wrote on Page 1: "We had "world peace" (as if that'll EVER happen!) on 10 Sept 2001..."
So happy you added the 'as if that'll EVER happen' part, coz saying 'WE' had world peace on Sep 10, 2001 is crazy. Ask the Palestinians, the Israelis, the people in Rwanda, Burundi, Congo, Sierra Leone etc. Or the oppressed North Koreans. Or the many, many women in this world who are forced by their country's males to act like they've had a lobotomy. ETC... You just mean loads of Americans didn't conciously realise they were that vulnerable too for attacks up till then, I guess?
I still, personally, disapprove of the *way* Bush and his club present themselves (superior and threathening) and of the content of their decisions. The last thing this world needs is a guy who loves to throw oil (pun intended) on the already existing fires in this (in some ways) crappy little world of ours.
Politics wear me out anyway, let's talk Jajouka instead. |
| October 7th, 2004 08:55 PM |
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| glencar |
Thanks for that post, caro! Mathjis is a dolt.
Angie, I meant "banned" but I can't type all that well when I'm tired. I put that part about "world peace" in quotes earlier because I specifically realize that there's has almost never been world peace. I resent the implication that we Americans are somehow oblivious to it although that may have just been my reading alone.
We've done a lot for world peace & world improvement. I'm not 100% happy with what we've done in Iraq although I'm optimistic that'll things will end well. I knew about the Dutch government's support & it's appreciated here just like that of the Italian, Brit & former Spanish gov't. I think it's a general waste to talk about politics but if we can convince the more rational among you that Americans for the most part aren't arrogant world beaters then I'll feel better. |
| October 7th, 2004 08:56 PM |
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| glencar |
gypsy, check your PM. |
| October 7th, 2004 09:03 PM |
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| Angiegirl |
quote:
glencar wrote:
but if we can convince the more rational among you that Americans for the most part aren't arrogant world beaters then I'll feel better.
I've always assumed they aren't. I wasn't referring to 'Americans for the most part', I was referring to the Bush-clan. He presents himself like one of those you described , at least in my eyes, that's all. God, it's all so frustrating and difficult to think about. 3 am, time to hit my bed I guess . |
| October 7th, 2004 09:07 PM |
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| Angiegirl |
quote:
Poplar wrote:
I wonder if Ann frank felt this way about Americans as she hid in that attic.
Probably wasn't the first thing on her mind, hiding hungrily from the German gun-bearers trying to get her on the train to hell. You could say her everyday mind was more with the Germans and her family than with the Americans  . Off topic, I know, just popped into my head.
Anyway, Anne Frank wasn't even Dutch . Very hot topic in Holland right now, there are people here who want to give her the official Dutch nationality almost 60 years after her death, but the government said it can't be done (constitutional, would be discriminating against other Germans who didn't get the Dutch nationality after surviving the holocaust), and that she's considered a national Dutch symbol anyway...'Anne Frank doesn't just belong to Holland, she belongs to the world' he said, god, I feel sick in my stomach now). She was born in Frankfurt (am Main) in Germany and moved to Holland in 1933, when she was 4 years old. Yeah, I did a school report on her 18 years ago, lol .
[Edited by Angiegirl] |
| October 7th, 2004 09:13 PM |
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| glencar |
I read about that Anne Frank story the other day. It seems like mostly a non-story to me that gets blown out of all proportion.
Good night! |
| October 7th, 2004 09:44 PM |
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| Soldatti |
Great posts Angiegirl... |
| October 7th, 2004 11:53 PM |
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| sammy davis jr. |
I too think Bush and his cronies are some scary mutha....shut yo' mouth! But I gotta disagree with Binaca, I mean Boinko, err Bianca about the death penalty. Bring back the death penalty in a big way- and watch crime go down overnight. As an American, I'm fucking sick and tired of hearing about repeat offenders serving two years of a fifteen year sentence, only to go out and ruin someone else's entire family's life by killing or hurting a loved one. I say kill 'em- this rehabilitation shit is for the birds. |
| October 8th, 2004 12:24 AM |
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| Poplar |
WORD to that. |
| October 8th, 2004 01:15 AM |
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| gypsy |
I think she still uses the Jagger surname because Perez Morena de Macias is too long and hard to pronounce. |
| October 8th, 2004 01:31 AM |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
sammy davis jr. wrote:
Bring back the death penalty in a big way- and watch crime go down overnight.
what!! - sammy from what i understand many of your states have and enforce such a penalty and it has had no effect on the rate of crime generally and murder specifically
many states here had it too but that didn't stop murders happening and once it was abolished there was no rise in the murder rate
for mine capital punishment is wrong for two reasons:
1. the state has enough power in being able to deny it's citizen's their liberty let alone deny them their life;
and, most importantly,
2. as DNA tests have now shown (although it has been demonstrated in other ways beforehand)many convicted of murder/rape and other crimes of violence were in fact innocent!!
the death penalty does nothing but pander to those who lust for vengance and vengance and a civilized society are mutually exclusive
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| October 8th, 2004 04:35 AM |
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| Mathijs |
Glencar, why am I a dolt? Here in the Netherlands we have three camps: 1)people who think the US did well to invade Iraq in this way, 2)people who think the US only shouldn have invaded together with the UN and 3)people who just plainly hate the US. You probably think I belong to the third group don't you? Well no. The third group mostly is made up of Muslims (about 1.5 million people over here) and the left-wing (remember, left wing in Holland is almost communist like). Group 1 is mostly right wing people (remember, the US republikan party would be considered extremely right wing over here). I am in group 2. I do think that the Bush administration made a mistake by 1)invading for the wrong reasons (weapons of MD) and 2) the fact that the US went in alone and not with the UN. Does this make me a dolt? Then about 4 million Dutch people are dolts.
Mathijs
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